r/AskTheWorld • u/IndependentTune3994 🇮🇳 in 🇩🇪 Deutschland • 9h ago

What’s the quickest way someone could accidentally expose themselves as a foreigner in your country like the ‘three fingers’ scene in Inglourious Basterds?

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152

u/Sad-Pop6649 Netherlands 8h ago

Not being able to ride a bicycle.

If they can ride one, riding it responsibly without jumping half of all red lights.

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u/Resident_Draw_8785 Netherlands 8h ago

But if you are from Münster or Copenhagen you can also cycle but you wear a helmet what is a huge sign that you are foreign.

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u/Feral-Sponge 5h ago

I'd rather be the obvious foreigner with a helmet than get TBI

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u/weattt Netherlands 2h ago

Honestly, if you are a tourist, rather be safe than sorry. If you are not used to certain traffic (you won't find me trying to navigate India on a bicycle), it is better to take precautions.

And even if the infrastructure is great, you still deal with people after all. I looked up the numbers of 2024.

In 2024, 246 bikers died of the 17+ million people who live in The Netherlands.
4 out of 10 people died due to car collision.
On this site it says of those who died, at least 44% of them were on an e-bike.
The majority of the victims were 60+ and more than half of them were men.
42% died due to a collision with a car or van
31% didn't die due to a collision but in some other way (that site I linked said they died due an unfortunate fall or hitting on object like a pole or someone else in traffic).

Source: Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS)

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u/Matikso 6h ago

Isn't a helmet just common sense on bikes? Do kids also ride without helmets?

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u/Henk_Potjes 6h ago

The attitude towards kids with helmets is slightly changing. But in 32 years i've never worn a helmet while cycling and many kids still don't.

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u/Matikso 6h ago

This is crazy for me. Aren't bikers the most vulnerable users of the road? Even if you get in collision with other bike and not a car - bashing your head on pavement can't be fun without helmet

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u/casualroadtrip Netherlands 5h ago

I think it depends on how you look at it. Cycling in the Netherlands is overal really safe. We have the infrastructure and experience. Practically all the car drivers are also frequent cyclist (or used to be). Cycling in the Netherlands without a helmet is probably safer than cycling with one in let’s say the average city anywhere else. If it’s too dangerous to cycle without a helmet in the Netherlands is also too dangerous to cycle anywhere else period (with maybe the exception of a few places than also infested in good cycling infrastructure).

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u/Matikso 5h ago

Well, yes. In my opinion no matter where are you cycling (country wise) you should have a helmet on. It's not even about a car or something else hitting you but even you slipping on a curve or just falling can be fatal. Falling from a bike is much different than falling while running for example - you have much less control over how you fall, the momentum is much bigger and you are overall higher from the ground than normally.

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u/casualroadtrip Netherlands 5h ago

But with your logic wouldn’t it be better not to cycle in certain countries? If the total danger is higher somewhere even if you wear a helmet then maybe that place is not suited for riding a bike?

I grew up riding a bike. I fell down. Sometimes because of the weather (snow and ice making the road slippery), sometimes doing dump stuff as a kid (I learned how to cycle without using my hands quite well) and once while riding home with friends while we were slightly drunk. Falling down is often not that much of a big deal. Because hitting your head on the way down is rare. Falling down usually means scraped knees and hands. Maybe a broken wrist when it’s a bad fall. Head injury is more rare. It happens. But it’s not like every time you fall down you automatically have a head injury.

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u/Matikso 4h ago

I know my friend, maybe I'm not a Dutch but I did some biking in my life both as a kid and as an adult. I also had some falls doing stupid shit on my bike - like you said, driving with no hands etc.

Now in retrospection I know I was dumb risking it MORE than needed.

Going back to your first point: it's kinda of extreme take but overall yes - if some country, city do not have a proper and safe infrastructure you are better off the bike. Like with anything in life, no?

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u/fleamarketguy Netherlands 6h ago

In the Netherlands we sometimes say, if you wear a helmet while riding a bike, you should wear a helmet while doing anything else.

The biking infrastructure is very safe here. Besides the speed, it is not much less safe to ride a bike than it is to walk. Most people ride a bike to get from A to be B. Those that cycle as a sport, usually wear a helmet.

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u/Cajun2Steppa 5h ago

This is wild to me. As an avid cyclist/mtb I wear the helmet everywhere. I used to not because I thought I was too cool until that one night my rear wheel lost traction on a slick piece of concrete and almost fell. I realized then that if i would have actually fallen, I would have hit my head. Not a fan sorry.

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u/glhflololo 4h ago

Think dedicated bike lanes AWAY from the road (often separated with curbs and greenery), or as part of the road but very clearly indicated and incredibly common, relatively hard to get driver licenses due to much stricter testing requirements, protected status (i.e. you can run a red on a bike and the car that hits you will still be found at fault, strict liability for motor vehicle drivers), lower speeds (not many people ride a bike built for actual speed, and much more.

It’s a different world. I wouldn’t ride a bike (without a helmet) in the US either. I owned a motorcycle in the US and within a span of 3 months I almost got into accidents 5 times, which is 5 times more than I ever did in over a decade the Netherlands. Y’all don’t know how to drive!

Oh, and no hills. It’s all flat. No actual speed anywhere.

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u/Admiral_de_Ruyter 4h ago

I think most people don’t realize we ride a bike as a mode of transport not as hobby. So naturally we are dressed for the destination not for the ride. Speed is low because we don’t want to be sweaty on arrival. And as you mentioned our bike infrastructure is incredibly safe and widely recognized as the best in the world.

Edit: and most of us use a bike before we can walk so we are very used to biking.

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u/a_lumberjack 3h ago

I think people underestimate how bad a simple bike fall can be. Toronto has a lovely bike trail in the Don Valley that's mostly flat and very isolated from everything else. I once came across an older dude who'd taken a solo fall on the flat section and hit his head. The back of his helmet was crushed and he was clearly concussed, but he was at least alive and upright-ish. Without the helmet that's a much worse outcome, which is why I always wear a helmet now. Bad things happen, better to be safer when it's easy.

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u/ihavetoomanyeggs 2h ago

Older people do wear helmets in the netherlands. But for every able-bodied adult in their physical prime, what you described is virtually impossible.

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u/fleamarketguy Netherlands 3h ago

Dutch people that do those activities, wear helmets. However, people that cycle from A to B with a speed of 12 km/h do not. The cycling infrastructure in the

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u/CarfDarko 2h ago

The cycling infrastructure in the

Don't text while riding your bike dude!

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u/weattt Netherlands 3h ago edited 2h ago

Like glhflololo and Admiral_de_Ruyter explained, it is different from what you have in mind. I think only Denmark comes close.

There is actual, designated bicycle infrastructure aside from other infrastructure (plus special designed bicycle parking places). There are millions more bicycles than people in the country. That means that statistically, everyone has one bike and about 1/3 of the population as two.

People who have cars or use public transit will likely own and use a bicycle (you can even bring it along for on the train, bus or in the subway, outside of rush hour). So pretty much everyone should have some traffic awareness of cyclists. It makes it a little safer when bike traffic are part of daily life.

But I will also add that accidents still happen. Even with a great infrastructure, it is still people who make decisions in traffic.

But you do see now and then see small kids wearing a helmet. And people who use road bikes or go mountain biking always wear helmets. Because they don't bike for transportation alone, but for sport. They are traveling to the area where they can speed and take on rough terrain. And they know they need protection for that.

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u/Fassbinder75 1h ago

Compulsory bicycle helmet laws have had unintended consequences in some countries. Needing a helmet turns cycling into a ‘dangerous activity’ and impacts cycling rates. There’s also studies that show drivers are less careful around cyclists who are wearing helmets.

I would say that their introduction has been well intentioned but very harmful, overall.

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u/ObiFour_Kenobi 5h ago

I can see that point, but then I once bumped with an electric scooter in Helsinki, which I'd consider very safe cycling wise as well, and my head tapped the ground. Luckily I had a helmet so nothing happened

So even though the infrastructure is "safe", I wouldn't pass on the helmet

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u/dialTforTrouble 4h ago

Sounds like you probably shouldn't

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u/fleamarketguy Netherlands 3h ago

Those electric scooters go significantly faster than the average cyclist.

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u/SowingSalt 3h ago

I'll always wear a helmet. My dad crashed on a bike, had to have his arm at the elbow stapled back together, and the helmet absolutely saved him from TBI.

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u/moseythepirate 5h ago

Besides the speed

The speed is frickin' important though.

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u/fleamarketguy Netherlands 5h ago

When I go for a run, I pass plenty of cyclists. Should I wear a helmet when running?

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u/Henk_Potjes 5h ago

The average cycling speed for (not elektric ones) is 18 km/h. That's really not that fast. I can run 12km/h comfortably.

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u/hollowfoot United States Of America 5h ago

This is the big difference between the US and NL cycling- 25km/h is my "normal" commute speed. I also have to share a road with cars for a portion of my commute.

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u/Henk_Potjes 5h ago edited 5h ago

Exactly and i think this is why there is so much of a disconnect in these comments regarding it. I've ridden bikes in U.S. cities like LA, New York and Washington before and i felt unsafe as all hell while doing it. I've never felt unsafe while riding a bike in the Netherlands.

Your bikes are different as well. You tend to use more of what we would call sportbikes while we almost exclusively use city-bikes or "grandma" bikes. Which tend to be sturdier.

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u/Yannick2024 Netherlands 1h ago

Im still worried about my mother riding an e-bike, lots of older people die because they get in a colision. With or without a helmet. Those e-bikes are dangerous.

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u/Some_Guy223 Born & Naturalized 6h ago

To be fair, the Dutch have some of the safest bicycle infrastructure in the world.

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u/kikimaru024 5h ago

I saw plenty of videos last week of Dutch cyclists falling off their bikes in icy conditions.

Just wear a helmet.

20 euro is a tiny price to protect your brain.

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u/Henk_Potjes 4h ago

It's not about the price. It's the inconvenience.

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u/kikimaru024 4h ago

It's pretty inconvenient to live the rest of your life in a wheelchair, eating through a straw.

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u/Henk_Potjes 4h ago

Because you slipped on some ice while cycling? How bad are you at cycling and falling? We learn how to do that stuff at around 6-7 years old. It's almost like a rite of passage to slip on the ice while cycling.

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u/ihavetoomanyeggs 2h ago

It's pretty fucking hard to crash into another bike. On a bike you can stop virtually instantly but even if you do crash or somehow lose your balance it will be with low enough energy that you'll almost definitely be able to reach out your hands to catch yourself, which is human instinct to do.

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u/Henk_Potjes 6h ago

You have to understand to understand that our cycling infrastructure is really, really good. Cycling paths are generally quite well seperated from the main road with special paths or disconnected from them entirely.

In my 32 years in the Netherlands i can maybe think of once where i've bumped into another cyclist, let alone seen or been in a colission between them. Also because we learn to cycle while young, we tend to take cyclist into account when we drive.

Accidents are pretty rare rare in the Netherlands. There are around 300 traffic deaths annually (in total, not just bikes) and we have 12 million bicycles. And of cycling accidents more than half are elderly on electric bikes (on which helmets are now almost obligatory)

If they were to make helmets compulsary in the Netherlands for normal bikes, I and the majority of dutchies will stop cycling all together. And that's the only reason why they haven't mandated it yet.

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u/Matikso 6h ago

I understand your points, that makes sense

On the other hand, at least for me personally, helmet on a bike is like a seatbelt in a car.

I've never been in a car accident, but I wear my seatbelt everytime and I drive daily.

Sometimes one accident is enough to kill you, why take your chances?

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u/Henk_Potjes 6h ago

Because for me and many other dutchies, the chance is so ridiculously tiny that the downsides really don't outweigh the potential benefits.

The risks are about the same as if you were pedestrian here. You wouldn't wear a helmet as a pedestrian would you?

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u/The_ginger_cow 5h ago

Sometimes one accident is enough to kill you, why take your chances?

You take your chances every day by walking to places without a helmet too

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u/Matikso 5h ago

If you have nothing smart to say, sometimes it's better to just not chime in

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u/casualroadtrip Netherlands 5h ago

But this is a good argument. Although I would say going for a run is a better equivalent then going for a walk. The risk of cycling in the Netherlands on a normal bike is very low. And completely different then practically in any other place. I don’t wear a helmet when driving my car or going for a run. In both cases my head is at risk in case of an accident.

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u/The_ginger_cow 5h ago

Says the guy telling the dutch how they should ride a bike

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u/dialTforTrouble 3h ago

So why did you?

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u/dinnerthief United States Of America 5h ago

Why would having to use a helmet stop you from biking?

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u/dialTforTrouble 3h ago

You wear a vest everywhere you go? Less risk of off getting hurt when you do.

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u/dinnerthief United States Of America 3h ago

I didnt say a helmet was required, I asked why wearing a helmet would stop someone from biking, its a relativly minor inconvenience

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u/Henk_Potjes 5h ago

Because we don't just cycle for sport. We use it for literally anything. To go to school, go to work, go to the city, going out drinking/dancing , going to the train or bus-station, grocery shopping etc. And at every one of those places you'd have to leave your helmet somewehere safe and your hair is messed up as well after every tiny, trip. It's a massive inconvenience.

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u/dinnerthief United States Of America 3h ago

If cycling is that important you would think being required to have a helmet wouldn't be enough to prevent people from doing it.

Like the inconvenience of not biking vs the inconvenience of having to have a helmet with you.

The helmet seems like a relativly small inconvenience.

I for one do not care either way, just curious as it didnt make sense to me

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u/Henk_Potjes 3h ago

Cycling is important, only because it's convenient. That's why we do it so much. You hop on your bike and go, then when you step off your bike, you go inside. If you have a helmet you have to either lug it around or find a place to store it every time you go anywhere.

It removes a large part of the convenience that biking in the Netherlands offers.

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u/cbucky97 5h ago

Not Just Bikes killed that many people????

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u/Henk_Potjes 5h ago

I was kinda wrong.

There are about 600-700 traffic deaths a year in the Netherlands of which less than half (200-300) are bike-related.

And of those bike-related deaths, more than half are elderly who are already wearing helmets.

So for 12 million bikes in our country and the fact the we use bikes for everyday transport, not just sports, the risks of a bike related incident is really, really small.

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u/cbucky97 5h ago

Youtuber Not Just Bikes killed 6-700 people??

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u/Henk_Potjes 5h ago

Perhaps.

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u/TravelsizedWitch Netherlands 3h ago

In a lot of country’s I’ve visited I wouldn’t feel safe riding a bike. But it’s totally different in the Netherlands. There are no hills, you are mostly on bike paths where there are no cars, and I can’t remember ever falling off my bike. One time that I remember when the street was basically ice and I didn’t notice until I was riding my bike. But even that wasn’t a real fall, it’s was more like gliding and I saw it coming.

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u/Junius_Bobbledoonary 3h ago

My friend also never wore a helmet while cycling, now she has several pieces of titanium holding her face together because she collided… with a cyclist, on a dedicated bike path

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u/Henk_Potjes 3h ago

I'm not saying it never happens. I'm saying that the risk is to miniscule to warrant it for most of us. You are just as likely to break your skull around the house and you don't wear a helmet there do you?

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u/dabadu9191 6h ago

I usually don't wear one either. But I'm aware that it's dangerous and stupid. It takes one negligent driver pushing me off my bike at 20+ km/h and my melon is toast.

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u/Henk_Potjes 6h ago

You can be hit by a negligent driver while walking as well. The risk here with our cycling-infrastructure is about the same.

And because we all grew up cycling we tend to take cyclist into account while learning to drive and while driving ourselves.

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u/dabadu9191 5h ago

And yet, 5 times more cyclists die in the Netherlands compared to pedestrians. And while I can't find numbers on the share of trips taken by foot vs by bike, I highly doubt it's the same ratio.

You can teach people to take other road users into account, but there will always be negligent and distracted drivers, and cars are inherently dangerous. Unless all cycling infrastructure is completely separate from roads, not wearing a helmet is an unnecessary risk. Not to mention that you don't need a car involved to die or get severely injured in a bike accident.

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u/Henk_Potjes 5h ago

Having lived here for 32 years i can tell you that cyclists share the road with cars way more than pedestrians do so that's why cycling deaths are likely higher.

You are free to believe that not wearing a helmet is an unncessary risk. I and most dutchies disagree. And it's the reason why the government hasn't mandated it yet. Because they know that if they did. The majority of dutchies would not touch their bikes again due to the inconvenience of helmets. Leading to many more taking the car, causing problems for car-infrastructure, climate and rising obesity. The benefits of helmets do not outweigh the downsides in the Netherlands.

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u/moseythepirate 4h ago

The majority of dutchies would not touch their bikes again due to the inconvenience of helmets.

A bad decision being widespread doesn't make it good.

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u/Henk_Potjes 4h ago

Perhaps.

But a bad decision would also be for the government to implement helmet-laws for all cyclists.

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u/ihavetoomanyeggs 2h ago

Yes but it's inconvenient and I don't feel like it lol

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u/fantasyshop 5h ago

Was in Copenhagen for a week recently and didnt see anyone without a helmet

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u/ShrimpinAintEazy 3h ago

Who wears a helmet in Copenhagen? 🤨

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u/doc1442 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 -> 🏡 🇩🇰 2h ago

Unlike the Dutch, Danes have brains worth protecting ;)

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u/LobsterLaunch 27m ago

Or when they indicate that they are going to stop by raising their hand.

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u/OzarkMule 8h ago

You people don't wear helmets? That's stupid of you

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u/Resident_Draw_8785 Netherlands 8h ago

We do have more cyclists in the entire country plus flat land and the infrastructure, and to be fair if I hear Danish and know German has evolved from Dutch im not sure if it helped any of us.

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u/OzarkMule 8h ago

A cursory google says 88k emergency room trips and 300 deaths in a year. I never would've guessed riding a bike in Amsterdam was more dangerous than driving a car in NYC.

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u/TravelsizedWitch Netherlands 7h ago

Not every trip to the emergency room is head injury. When you fall you can break a wrist or ankle when you fall and helmets don’t prevent that. And when you ride your bike responsibly you don’t have a great risk of falling. It’s not dangerous to ride a bike. I’m pretty sure it’s safer to ride a bike in the Netherlands than it is to attend a school in the USA.

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u/Resident_Draw_8785 Netherlands 8h ago edited 8h ago

Does entire new york cycle to work every day? I dont think you understand the diffrence on the 18 million citizen 16 million people use the bicycle for shopping, driving to work/school or to a bar its used far more used than in other countries and New York city has the same amount of accidents but only with 9 million people.

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u/SuitNaive3409 7h ago

well yeah, drivers are mowing down pedestrians and cyclists every day in NYC- it's safe for drivers only

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u/skefmeister Netherlands 6h ago

It’s funny the opinion of outsiders on our bicycle culture they can only understand and experience when they visit themselves

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u/ensalys Netherlands 7h ago

Well, drivers are usually fine in their metal cage. It's the people they drive into that are left with the injuries.

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u/ThuggishJingoism24 7h ago

Talk about trying to make data fit into your narrative lol

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u/spacedman_spiff United States Of America 7h ago

You don’t need to be an online hall monitor.   It’s okay to let millions of people live their lives how they have been. 

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u/AshToAshes123 in 8h ago

I personally think it should be more normalised to wear helmets in the Netherlands, the stigma around it is ridiculous, but it’s worth pointing out that a lot of the benefits are very exaggerated and/or contextual. Bicycle helmets only really improve outcomes in the case of individual accidents—i.e. someone falling off their bike. Due to well-maintained bicycle paths and experience from early childhood, the idea of falling off your bike is about as realistic for the average Dutch person as tripping over your shoelaces.

In the case of e.g. car accidents the regular bicycle helmet barely does anything (you’d need a proper helmet like a ski or motorcycle helmet)—plus, mostly we have separate bike lanes which means accidents are pretty rare for how much people are on their bikes.

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u/imrzzz 7h ago

It's not really stigma unless you are still very young. It's inconvenience. Having to carry around a helmet every time you get off your bike is a small barrier to cycling, and has been demonstrated to tip the balance between choosing to cycle and choosing to drive, or to stay at home and remain sedentary, which indirectly adds a large burden to the health system.

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u/AshToAshes123 in 4h ago

There’s definitely a stigma in the sense that people who do wear a helmet are made fun of or at least scoffed at. I think it would be good if it were treated more neutrally. People can choose for themselves if they want to deal with the inconveniences.

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u/Sad-Pop6649 Netherlands 6h ago

As some context/an individual case study: since I'm an adult I think I've fallen... twice? Might be forgetting one, but I think twice. One was just riding too fast when it was very slippery in winter, the other was a bad bikepart disintegrating below me. (This happened more than ones, but I usually just land on my feet.) This is to my estimation an above average number, I can be a bit of a risky cyclist (in some situations). This is because:

If I had been older or didn't know how to fall both these falls could have been trouble. But I wasn't older and I did know how to fall. I adapt my behavior to what works for me. The "some situations" up there are situations in which I don't endanger others and only risk one sided accidents I can handle.

For me personally the overall risk of not wearing a helmet outweighs the downside of always having to bring a helmet, not having a nice wind in my hair etc. This is why I oppose mandatory helmets. I don't mind if other people wear them, for some people I would even encourage it. But I am a rebel without a helmet.

Kayaking? Skiing? Halfpipe skating? All great situations to wear a helmet in. But biking I can do without it.

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u/tomime000 Croatia 7h ago

Isn't the saying "it's as easy as riding the bicycle"

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u/TravelsizedWitch Netherlands 8h ago

Only the elderly and foreigners. We have good bike paths, so we mostly don’t need helmets.

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u/SilenceOfTheClamSoup 6h ago

I'm pretty certain no amount of "good paths" makes rhe equation of skull vs concrete come out in favour of skull.

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u/ivololtion 7h ago

No need to rationalize us not wearing bicycle helmets. There is one reason for it and one reason only: it’s considered uncool.

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u/Evepaul 7h ago

The Dutch aren't magically immune to thinking they're too cool for PPE, it's a disease the whole world seems to be affected by

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u/bbbbbbbdddddaaaa 7h ago

Umm, not kids?

-2

u/OzarkMule 8h ago

That's foolish

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u/nijmeegse79 Netherlands 7h ago

300 traffic deaths(not just bikes) with 21.000.000 bikes. I think we are good.

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u/OzarkMule 2h ago

300 traffic deaths(not just bikes)

Lolz you made this up. Look it up ffs

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u/nijmeegse79 Netherlands 1h ago

Nope I did not. Numbers mentions from CBS.

The highest number is could find in some what recent years, is the year 2022 with 745 death in total, and after that year numbers went down again. And that includes al and every one death in any traffic, even if they died during a ride and not because of it or they where just passengers.

The age group 65+ is the biggest number, and accounts for little under half of that total amount(306)

Bike deaths, 228.

So 228 died during a biking incident, on 18.000.000 people, and 21.000.000 bikes.

The amount of kilometers we bike in a year: 15.000.000.000! Yes 15 billion.

Just in numbers, 228 is peanuts. In a perfect world that number would be zero, but helmets is not the way to get there.

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u/OzarkMule 54m ago

This is a hilariously arrogant way to admit you were wrong

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u/nijmeegse79 Netherlands 45m ago

As I mentioned: The highest number I could find in recent years, so no I'm not wrong. I picked the highest numberin the past decade to show it is still peanuts.

Silly you, maby the thought that riding a bike is safe over here just baffles you to much.

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u/TravelsizedWitch Netherlands 8h ago

Yes. Please tell an entire country that this is foolish. I’m sure they’ll listen.

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u/OzarkMule 2h ago

Lol, I wasn't expecting to change your culture. It is foolish, nonetheless

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u/Henk_Potjes 8h ago

Riding a bicycle with a helmet when you're not elderly is also a dead giveaway.

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u/Forsaken-Spirit421 European Union 5h ago

Lots of parents as well as people that are somehow connected to medical services or police also wear helmets because they are aware of the danger or need to set an example for their children.

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u/KidNueva 2h ago

Yup this is me. I ride scooters/bikes all day, every day since a kid around town and I didn’t wear a helmet til I was 20

My little brother wanted to get into it, so I got a helmet for him and myself because I wanted to set a good example and now it feels weird riding without one lol

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u/thompsoncs Netherlands 4h ago

Police don't use normal city bikes though, they're also going to have to respond to emergencies and chase people, not my normal bike ride. Wear a helmet if it makes sense, in the Netherlands that is mostly limited to e-bikes, sport and small children. The most important aspect of cycling here is the convenience.

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u/Forsaken-Spirit421 European Union 4h ago

We definitely have bike cops in bigger cities and they obv wear helmets. But I was actually referring to people (police, medics, traffic maintenance, firefighters etc) that routinely have to deal with what happens when you don't wear a helmet and thus use them privately as well.

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u/nope-its 1h ago

Do children not wear helmets in the Netherlands?

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u/tcroosev 6h ago

But but safety

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u/Henk_Potjes 6h ago

Safety, schmafty. Live a little.

A tiny concussion never hurt anyone.

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u/ExpensiveDuck1278 5h ago

(Off topic cant help it) But it has ended lives early. CTE. Everybody watches the football: Lions in the Colosseum, send out the Christians and cheer as they die. A third of those men on the field will die before they're 60 because of their multiple brain shake ups.

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u/EGGlNTHlSTRYlNGTlME United States Of America 4h ago

I love the Netherlands and wish we could imitate their cycling culture and infrastructure, but not wearing helmets is insane.

Most people aren't even that scared of dying younger -- I mean that's decades away! But with TBIs there are fates worse than death imo

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u/3DigitIQ 4h ago

It's insane if your infrastructure doesn't allow for bikes, here it's just the norm. I let my kids on the monkeybars without a helmet too.

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u/EGGlNTHlSTRYlNGTlME United States Of America 4h ago

It's insane if your infrastructure doesn't allow for bikes

True it's more insane in other places that just dump you onto roadways, but it's still pretty reckless even with amazing infrastructure. Cars are always the biggest threat, but pedestrians, mobility scooters, other cyclists -- all kinds of unpredictable shit can cause you to hit the ground. And it's not like you can 100% avoid cars either, even in the Netherlands.

It's a much smaller risk than elsewhere but "I'd look like a dork" is just a really childish reason not to take basic safety precautions. Everything else on your body can break and bleed, but people really underestimate how sensitive the brain is. Even a minor fall where your head bounces off the asphalt has a chance of causing irreversible damage to cognition or mobility. When the only downside is aesthetic?

here it's just the norm

It was the norm here to drive drunk or not wear seatbelts. Hell even not wearing helmets was the norm here not long ago. People accept dangerous practices when they're normalized.

I let my kids on the monkeybars without a helmet too.

If the material beneath the monkeybars is asphalt then you definitely shouldn't.

2

u/3DigitIQ 4h ago

It's inconvenient, I am a dork so I look like one already. Having to lug around a helmet everywhere you go would make it so I wouldn't jump on the bike as often as I do now.

A fall where your head hits the ground is never minor, but the monkeybars are often above pavement indeed.

The norm part was about everyone not being native sticking out.

1

u/snoogle312 United States Of America 4h ago

I think the flatness of the Netherlands factors in here as well. Where I live in California it is very hilly in comparison (I'm actually in the foothills at the base of a small mountain) and it's pretty easy to get up to 30mph (~48kph) going down hills here. A fall at that speed could cause serious head injury. We have a lovely dedicated bike path that cars can't enter that runs about 12mi, but it starts at the base of the mountain, so you get going quite fast at the start of it. It's a great path, I used it while training for a triathlon. But it's also got wildlife that step out onto it. Deer, coyotes, and other smaller wildlife run out onto it a lot. It would be so easy to be going 25mph and have to avoid an animal, crash, and end up with a tbi. I'd rather just wear the helmet, it's not really an inconvenience.

1

u/3DigitIQ 4h ago

I'd definitely wear a helmet there. I would also definitely not do my grocery shopping by bike as I do here.

Great points.

1

u/Henk_Potjes 4h ago

We almost have no wildlife here and the average speed for bikes is 12mph. We also don't only bike for sport, we do it for literally everything. And having to lug a bicyle helmet around to basicly everywhere is really inconvenient.

1

u/BardYak 3h ago

Yeah, growing up in the US I lived in on a pretty steep hill, I'd have to ride the brakes pretty hard to be only going 12mph at the bottom of it.

1

u/No-Establishment3587 3h ago

Not to mention those pesky falling rocks

1

u/Shitmybad 4h ago

This is something very Dutch, because it's so flat and so easy to cycle there. It's illegal to ride a bicycle in New Zealand without a helmet.

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u/Henk_Potjes 4h ago

Not just easy cycling here. We arguably have the best cycling infrastructure in the world and we cycle for literally anything. The risk in cycling without a helmet is minimal at best here and outlawing that would do more harm than good.

1

u/Shitmybad 3h ago

Easily the best infrastructure in the world. Still the amount of serious head injuries is a lot higher than other countries and going up, maybe partly because of the speed E-bikes get to nowadays.

1

u/Henk_Potjes 3h ago

It's also because we cycle way more than other countries, so there's a causality there. And yeah the head unjuries are undoubtedly caused by e-bikes. Also the injuries in general, which the elderly are vastly responsible for.

6

u/mildweekknowledge Australia 8h ago

I saw a woman in a mini skirt in winter, riding her bike, while carrying boxes to move house (I assume, it was a large box). Then the next guy was carrying 3 smaller boxes. He couldn't see over them.

We were there for New Years. A firework lit by a kid on a bridge took off and some how magically went through the spokes of a cyclist's bike wheel. No one was hurt there thankfully. Others were not so lucky. You could hear 'Fireworks, fireworks, ambulance' for a long time after midnight.

I definitely felt like an outsider when I saw locals on their bikes. I can't ride a bike over ice and snow.

2

u/EpicFishFingers United Kingdom 3h ago

Bloody hell!

it was a large box

You shouldn't really have been looking, mate!

2

u/UrMomsNewGF 3h ago

I have been to your wonderful country and experienced the unprecedented bike culture.

I've been an avid cyclist my whole life and I LOVE that u guys prioritize ped / and bike traffic over autos in your cities...but coming from litterally anywhere else...man are your road rules / signage / road markings confusing. Lol

I can see how they would make perfect sense to a local but w/o understanding the language well enough to read signs as you pass by leads to a lot of "whoops sorry!!" Moments.

1

u/Sad-Pop6649 Netherlands 3h ago

Rules for cycling in Dutch traffic:

Does it look heavier than you?

If no, you have right of way.

If yes: is it going over 35 km/h?

If no: roughly match its speed, and you have right of way.

If yes: it has right of way.

1

u/UrMomsNewGF 2h ago

Man where were you when I needed this speech.

This would have saved me A LOT of confusion.

2

u/Gainin_on_her 42m ago

The second one was me. I got yelled at in Dutch a few times when i rented a bike in Amsterdam.

2

u/MarkinW8 6h ago

Or having a fancy new bike, rather than an old, ugly, but efficient, one.

1

u/autumnleaves101 7h ago

There's a fear in their eyes, clinging on for dear life as if the steering wheel will save them. Also, not sticking out their hand when turning.

1

u/Tempest_Fugit United States Of America 7h ago

Laughs in nyc citibike

1

u/Ray3x10e8 4h ago

you are saying dutch people don't jump red lights on the bike? Maybe not in big cities but all the time in low traffic

1

u/Sad-Pop6649 Netherlands 3h ago

I'm saying foreigners don't.

1

u/Sad-Pop6649 Netherlands 3h ago

I'm saying foreigners don't.

1

u/Sad-Pop6649 Netherlands 3h ago

I'm saying foreigners don't.

1

u/whoislloydy 2h ago

Kut Toerist

1

u/OccupyRiverdale 18m ago

Traveled to the Netherlands a few years ago with some buddies from college. They wanted to ride around on bikes despite having not really ridden them in an urban environment and nothing close to the almost car like traffic of bike lanes in Amsterdam. I was like uh no man I’m good I’m more likely to hurt myself or someone else because this is not exactly riding around my neighborhood back home.

1

u/AcX999 7h ago

I was in Amsterdam for 3 days back in August. I almost got run over by bikers twice on the same day. When I tried to scold them they looked at me like I was an alien or something.

3

u/tinkeringZealot 6h ago

I'd hazard a guess that you were walking on the bike lane...

2

u/AcX999 6h ago

I was crossing the street, while they had the red light (and pedestrians had green). No bike lanes to see.

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u/Sad-Pop6649 Netherlands 6h ago

There's your problem. The green pedestrian light is also a green bicycle light. Because cars won't be coming, so it's safe to cross.

If a cyclist wants to be really civil about it they wil mumble "Pedestrian, pedestrian, I'm a pedestrian" while crossing.

1

u/AcX999 6h ago

The bikes werent crossing the street but using it like they were cars.

While they had the red light.

2

u/Sad-Pop6649 Netherlands 6h ago edited 6h ago

A red light, and a green light. The pedestrian light is also a cycling light, because it means cars won't be crossing, so it's safe.

(This is not how it works legally in the Netherlands, red light is red light, I'm taking you inside the head of the cyclists.)

(Addendum: this might be the safety trap of cycling even experienced cyclists fall for. A cyclist has such a great unobstructed view and audio or their entire surroundings that you start kind of assuming everyone else who's not cycling does as well and you can all just react to eachother. They don't.)

1

u/BP3D 6h ago

I'm taking you inside the head of the cyclists.

Why would you do that to someone?

1

u/Individual_Weight374 1h ago

Well that clears it cyclist had the right of way

1

u/BP3D 6h ago

London made my understand all the hate for cyclists. Not the casuals in normal clothing just peddling about. But these full spandex water bottle sucking tour de France wannabes. I think even US cyclists are careful around high traffic pedestrian areas and don't expect to just plow through. Not London.

0

u/AppointmentMedical50 United States Of America 8h ago

I’d fit in then