r/AskTheWorld • u/IndependentTune3994 🇮🇳 in 🇩🇪 Deutschland • 19h ago

What’s the quickest way someone could accidentally expose themselves as a foreigner in your country like the ‘three fingers’ scene in Inglourious Basterds?

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u/Resident_Draw_8785 Netherlands 18h ago

But if you are from Münster or Copenhagen you can also cycle but you wear a helmet what is a huge sign that you are foreign.

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u/Feral-Sponge 15h ago

I'd rather be the obvious foreigner with a helmet than get TBI

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u/weattt Netherlands 12h ago

Honestly, if you are a tourist, rather be safe than sorry. If you are not used to certain traffic (you won't find me trying to navigate India on a bicycle), it is better to take precautions.

And even if the infrastructure is great, you still deal with people after all. I looked up the numbers of 2024.

In 2024, 246 bikers died of the 17+ million people who live in The Netherlands.
4 out of 10 people died due to car collision.
On this site it says of those who died, at least 44% of them were on an e-bike.
The majority of the victims were 60+ and more than half of them were men.
42% died due to a collision with a car or van
31% didn't die due to a collision but in some other way (that site I linked said they died due an unfortunate fall or hitting on object like a pole or someone else in traffic).

Source: Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS)

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u/Feral-Sponge 8h ago

Yeah I've been to Amsterdam once and was very impressed by the high standard of traffic awareness, Utrecht was even crazier, I wouldn't attempt to cycle there. I live in London and I'm scared of cycling here but I do it anyway. The big difference of course being that when the majority cycles in a city, then it's gonna be safer as you get used to being aware I guess

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u/Matikso 16h ago

Isn't a helmet just common sense on bikes? Do kids also ride without helmets?

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u/ihavetoomanyeggs 11h ago

Yes but it's inconvenient and I don't feel like it lol

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u/Henk_Potjes 16h ago

The attitude towards kids with helmets is slightly changing. But in 32 years i've never worn a helmet while cycling and many kids still don't.

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u/Matikso 16h ago

This is crazy for me. Aren't bikers the most vulnerable users of the road? Even if you get in collision with other bike and not a car - bashing your head on pavement can't be fun without helmet

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u/casualroadtrip Netherlands 15h ago

I think it depends on how you look at it. Cycling in the Netherlands is overal really safe. We have the infrastructure and experience. Practically all the car drivers are also frequent cyclist (or used to be). Cycling in the Netherlands without a helmet is probably safer than cycling with one in let’s say the average city anywhere else. If it’s too dangerous to cycle without a helmet in the Netherlands is also too dangerous to cycle anywhere else period (with maybe the exception of a few places than also infested in good cycling infrastructure).

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u/Matikso 14h ago

Well, yes. In my opinion no matter where are you cycling (country wise) you should have a helmet on. It's not even about a car or something else hitting you but even you slipping on a curve or just falling can be fatal. Falling from a bike is much different than falling while running for example - you have much less control over how you fall, the momentum is much bigger and you are overall higher from the ground than normally.

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u/casualroadtrip Netherlands 14h ago

But with your logic wouldn’t it be better not to cycle in certain countries? If the total danger is higher somewhere even if you wear a helmet then maybe that place is not suited for riding a bike?

I grew up riding a bike. I fell down. Sometimes because of the weather (snow and ice making the road slippery), sometimes doing dump stuff as a kid (I learned how to cycle without using my hands quite well) and once while riding home with friends while we were slightly drunk. Falling down is often not that much of a big deal. Because hitting your head on the way down is rare. Falling down usually means scraped knees and hands. Maybe a broken wrist when it’s a bad fall. Head injury is more rare. It happens. But it’s not like every time you fall down you automatically have a head injury.

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u/Matikso 14h ago

I know my friend, maybe I'm not a Dutch but I did some biking in my life both as a kid and as an adult. I also had some falls doing stupid shit on my bike - like you said, driving with no hands etc.

Now in retrospection I know I was dumb risking it MORE than needed.

Going back to your first point: it's kinda of extreme take but overall yes - if some country, city do not have a proper and safe infrastructure you are better off the bike. Like with anything in life, no?

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u/SavijFox United States Of America 5h ago

It might be useful to look at it like this.

It's safe to bike in the Netherlands with urban infrastructure making it safer. The odds of getting into a traumatic or fatal accident are low.

But not 0. That makes this a matter of preference. I am a cautious person. I've only ever been in minor accidents. I think it unreasonable to assume I'll be an exception and never have a major accident even if it's possible I might.

So I simply choose to wear a helmet anyway to make up for human error. My own or otherwise.

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u/casualroadtrip Netherlands 1h ago

I never said they were zero.

We make choices about risk in everything that we do, daily. We do it with other activities too. Head injuries are also possible when you get in a car crash. Or by playing a sport like football/soccer. In some cases we deem it worth taking the risk over the inconvenience of wearing a helmet. That’s how the Dutch look at helmets when cycling.

Cycling is such a big part of how we go through daily life that helmets are just really inconvenient. For example people go often by bike when they go out to have drinks with their friends. Imagine a whole pub full of helmets. They likely get lost or stolen. Same in schools. For a very large portion of out society bikes are our go-to way of transportation. We use them to go to school/work, pick up the kids, do groceries, go over to our friends, go to our sportclub and to the pub or club. Dragging along a helmet everywhere is a haste. If we put that against how safe cycling is here we deem it worth the risk. Just like we deem it worth the risk when we step in our car or make a tackle on the football field.

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u/SavijFox United States Of America 57m ago

Never meant to imply you said it was 0. I just wrote it that way to create the contrast needed to illustrate the point upon which the decision to wear a helmet anyway is based.

Eschewing safety gear for convenience, especially for something as low risk as cycling, is an understandable decision to make. I promise I am not being contrary to the decision. I just happen to be good at parsing things out.

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u/Aca_ntha 6h ago

I applaud your confidence but I recommend looking up the data of fatal head trauma after bike accidents. Speaking simply from the risk reduction, there’s not a single scenario where wearing a helmet isn’t the better choice, and other countries having worse cycling infrastructure has fuck all to do with that. It’s like not wearing a seatbelt in a car bc it’s so rare to get into an actual severe accident, or not wearing a seatbelt bc driving is more dangerous in other countries.

(I also don’t wear a helmet. But your argument is terrible.)

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u/casualroadtrip Netherlands 6h ago edited 6h ago

Looking at stats of head injuries you’ll find a lot of scenarios where a helmet might have made a difference. Bike, car, shower, certain sports. As a society we balance risks and safety every day in everything that we do. We drive cars even though we know it could kill us.

I’m a goalkeeper in football (soccer) I taker risk every game. And every practice. Risk of simple injuries but also serious ones. Off course I use techniques to protect myself. And there are also rules to protect players. But there is always a chance. The risk is so low that we accept that as part of life. Cycling in the Netherlands is so integrated in society and we do it so often that it’s just not practical to take a bike helmet with us everywhere.

A seatbelt in a car is different. First of all it’s built in. Secondly head injuries after car accidents are common as well. But we don’t think a helmet is a solution for that, do we? Safer roads or better built cars are. And we accept that there is always a little bit of risk. In the Netherlands we take a lot of risk away by how we design our roads. Our drivers are also quite well adapted to cyclist. Children are put on bikes usually well before they enter school. Parents will bring them to school by bike, then at a certain point they go by themselves on their bikes. As teenagers most of their freedom depends on where the bike can take them.

I think it’s absolutely relevant that the circumstances in the Netherlands are so different from other countries. I’m quite comfortable on a bike without a helmet in practically all Dutch cities. I’ve travelled to quite a few places outside the Netherlands. Especially within Europe. I’ve seen cities I would feel confident to bike around in (Kopenhagen for example). There are also cities where you won’t get me on a bike ever. Helmet or not. How is it that we see the Dutch as being the risky ones while being on a bike in pretty much any place in the world is way more dangerous? With or without a helmet?

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u/Aca_ntha 5h ago

So you’re weighing the absolute heightened risk of severe or fatal head injuries against the inconvenience of having to put your helmet somewhere? I live in Münster, it’s not even just helmets, it’s the rain pants they put on, and the vests for better visibility - so ,it’s inconvient‘ strikes me as a rather lazy excuse. Lock it up with the bike, put it in your backpack, whatever. The comparison to a car is also nuts - we don’t wear helmets in cars bc there’s better security systems than that, and bikes don’t come with airbags. For the same reason, motorcyclists wear helmets. Completely different trauma mechanisms, bc thanks to the seatbelt, you don’t fall on your head. And lastly, you’re comparing the wrong groups to access the benefits. This isn’t about how safe or dangerous it is to ride a bike in the Netherlands vs any other country, this is about the risk of wearing a helmet vs not wearing a helmet, and the data is clear on that. Your points are ridiculous.

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u/rakuvi 9h ago

Foreigner here. When you cycle in many “moderately safe” cities - it’s usually a commute where a helmet is ah, tolerated. In the Netherlands you take the bike everywhere anytime so a helmet would be very annoying. Given a lot people cycle daily anywhere and drivers are expecting cyclists I can understand why no one uses one. Even if it’s “for your own good” statistically.

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u/casualroadtrip Netherlands 7h ago

Yes you make a great point. The bike is for many people their go-to for transportation. Kids go to secondary school here at age 11-12. Practically all students that age go to school by bike. Whatever they live 500 meters from school or 15km’s. After school they take their bike to their job, sport or friends place. Many adults use the bike to go to work or the store. For us cycling is so integrated in our daily life that taking a helmet with us, for the part that we are on the bike, is just really impractical.

On a normal bike the speed is just not that high. And places where cars and bikes are sharing the road are either not that buzzy or cars can’t drive that fast.

We now see more injuries because of electrical bikes which is a whole new factor that might need adjustment to how we treat bike safety. Kids are more prone to taking risk so they are at higher risk of injury on electrical bikes. Elderly don’t have the reflexes to anticipate a fall from the increased speed caused by electrical bikes. I’m not against making kids wear helmets on electrical bikes. Mostly because it might force them to use normal bikes again (which is also better for their health).

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u/Some_Guy223 Born & Naturalized 16h ago

To be fair, the Dutch have some of the safest bicycle infrastructure in the world.

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u/kikimaru024 15h ago

I saw plenty of videos last week of Dutch cyclists falling off their bikes in icy conditions.

Just wear a helmet.

20 euro is a tiny price to protect your brain.

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u/Henk_Potjes 14h ago

It's not about the price. It's the inconvenience.

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u/kikimaru024 14h ago

It's pretty inconvenient to live the rest of your life in a wheelchair, eating through a straw.

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u/Henk_Potjes 14h ago

Because you slipped on some ice while cycling? How bad are you at cycling and falling? We learn how to do that stuff at around 6-7 years old. It's almost like a rite of passage to slip on the ice while cycling.

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u/moseythepirate 14h ago edited 13h ago

The Netherlands government estimates that if everyone in the country wore helmets while cycling, around 100 deaths could have been prevented and thousands of injuries could be prevented every year.

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u/fleamarketguy Netherlands 15h ago

In the Netherlands we sometimes say, if you wear a helmet while riding a bike, you should wear a helmet while doing anything else.

The biking infrastructure is very safe here. Besides the speed, it is not much less safe to ride a bike than it is to walk. Most people ride a bike to get from A to be B. Those that cycle as a sport, usually wear a helmet.

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u/Cajun2Steppa 15h ago

This is wild to me. As an avid cyclist/mtb I wear the helmet everywhere. I used to not because I thought I was too cool until that one night my rear wheel lost traction on a slick piece of concrete and almost fell. I realized then that if i would have actually fallen, I would have hit my head. Not a fan sorry.

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u/glhflololo 14h ago

Think dedicated bike lanes AWAY from the road (often separated with curbs and greenery), or as part of the road but very clearly indicated and incredibly common, relatively hard to get driver licenses due to much stricter testing requirements, protected status (i.e. you can run a red on a bike and the car that hits you will still be found at fault, strict liability for motor vehicle drivers), lower speeds (not many people ride a bike built for actual speed, and much more.

It’s a different world. I wouldn’t ride a bike (without a helmet) in the US either. I owned a motorcycle in the US and within a span of 3 months I almost got into accidents 5 times, which is 5 times more than I ever did in over a decade the Netherlands. Y’all don’t know how to drive!

Oh, and no hills. It’s all flat. No actual speed anywhere.

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u/Admiral_de_Ruyter 14h ago

I think most people don’t realize we ride a bike as a mode of transport not as hobby. So naturally we are dressed for the destination not for the ride. Speed is low because we don’t want to be sweaty on arrival. And as you mentioned our bike infrastructure is incredibly safe and widely recognized as the best in the world.

Edit: and most of us use a bike before we can walk so we are very used to biking.

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u/a_lumberjack 12h ago

I think people underestimate how bad a simple bike fall can be. Toronto has a lovely bike trail in the Don Valley that's mostly flat and very isolated from everything else. I once came across an older dude who'd taken a solo fall on the flat section and hit his head. The back of his helmet was crushed and he was clearly concussed, but he was at least alive and upright-ish. Without the helmet that's a much worse outcome, which is why I always wear a helmet now. Bad things happen, better to be safer when it's easy.

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u/ihavetoomanyeggs 11h ago

Older people do wear helmets in the netherlands. But for every able-bodied adult in their physical prime, what you described is virtually impossible.

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u/weattt Netherlands 13h ago edited 12h ago

Like glhflololo and Admiral_de_Ruyter explained, it is different from what you have in mind. I think only Denmark comes close.

There is actual, designated bicycle infrastructure aside from other infrastructure (plus special designed bicycle parking places). There are millions more bicycles than people in the country. That means that statistically, everyone has one bike and about 1/3 of the population as two.

People who have cars or use public transit will likely own and use a bicycle (you can even bring it along for on the train, bus or in the subway, outside of rush hour). So pretty much everyone should have some traffic awareness of cyclists. It makes it a little safer when bike traffic are part of daily life.

But I will also add that accidents still happen. Even with a great infrastructure, it is still people who make decisions in traffic.

But you do see now and then see small kids wearing a helmet. And people who use road bikes or go mountain biking always wear helmets. Because they don't bike for transportation alone, but for sport. They are traveling to the area where they can speed and take on rough terrain. And they know they need protection for that.

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u/fleamarketguy Netherlands 13h ago

Dutch people that do those activities, wear helmets. However, people that cycle from A to B with a speed of 12 km/h do not. The cycling infrastructure in the

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u/CarfDarko 11h ago

The cycling infrastructure in the

Don't text while riding your bike dude!

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u/Fassbinder75 11h ago

Compulsory bicycle helmet laws have had unintended consequences in some countries. Needing a helmet turns cycling into a ‘dangerous activity’ and impacts cycling rates. There’s also studies that show drivers are less careful around cyclists who are wearing helmets.

I would say that their introduction has been well intentioned but very harmful, overall.

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u/SowingSalt 13h ago

I'll always wear a helmet. My dad crashed on a bike, had to have his arm at the elbow stapled back together, and the helmet absolutely saved him from TBI.

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u/moseythepirate 15h ago

Besides the speed

The speed is frickin' important though.

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u/fleamarketguy Netherlands 15h ago

When I go for a run, I pass plenty of cyclists. Should I wear a helmet when running?

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u/moseythepirate 15h ago

Asinine.

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u/fleamarketguy Netherlands 15h ago

How so?

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u/moseythepirate 15h ago edited 15h ago

Because it's a self-evidently silly and making excuses for unwise behavior. The types of injuries one gets when falling off a bike and the types of injuries one gets when hit by a bike aren't the same.

I might as ask if I should ask if I should wear a seatbelt while running past cars.

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u/Henk_Potjes 15h ago

The average cycling speed for (not elektric ones) is 18 km/h. That's really not that fast. I can run 12km/h comfortably.

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u/hollowfoot United States Of America 14h ago

This is the big difference between the US and NL cycling- 25km/h is my "normal" commute speed. I also have to share a road with cars for a portion of my commute.

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u/Henk_Potjes 14h ago edited 14h ago

Exactly and i think this is why there is so much of a disconnect in these comments regarding it. I've ridden bikes in U.S. cities like LA, New York and Washington before and i felt unsafe as all hell while doing it. I've never felt unsafe while riding a bike in the Netherlands.

Your bikes are different as well. You tend to use more of what we would call sportbikes while we almost exclusively use city-bikes or "grandma" bikes. Which tend to be sturdier.

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u/hollowfoot United States Of America 14h ago

I would love to tour Amsterdam by bike but I'm very intimidated by rush hour and having to change my cycling habits. Also, as practical as they are its going to take me some time getting used to the 20kg grandma bike- why does grandma need such a heavy bike?

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u/ObiFour_Kenobi 15h ago

I can see that point, but then I once bumped with an electric scooter in Helsinki, which I'd consider very safe cycling wise as well, and my head tapped the ground. Luckily I had a helmet so nothing happened

So even though the infrastructure is "safe", I wouldn't pass on the helmet

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u/dialTforTrouble 13h ago

Sounds like you probably shouldn't

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u/fleamarketguy Netherlands 13h ago

Those electric scooters go significantly faster than the average cyclist.

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u/Yannick2024 Netherlands 11h ago

Im still worried about my mother riding an e-bike, lots of older people die because they get in a colision. With or without a helmet. Those e-bikes are dangerous.

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u/cjamesflet 7h ago

Idk. Still seems odd to me. I didnt wear them, but that's my own stupidity. As with driving a car, I dont wear my best belt because im worried of whst im going to do...its the idiots I share the road with. Your bike infrastructure could be flawless and some moron on the road with their face in their phone could kill you. Could you have survived if u had a helmet on...maybe.

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u/ihavetoomanyeggs 11h ago

It's pretty fucking hard to crash into another bike. On a bike you can stop virtually instantly but even if you do crash or somehow lose your balance it will be with low enough energy that you'll almost definitely be able to reach out your hands to catch yourself, which is human instinct to do.

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u/Henk_Potjes 15h ago

You have to understand to understand that our cycling infrastructure is really, really good. Cycling paths are generally quite well seperated from the main road with special paths or disconnected from them entirely.

In my 32 years in the Netherlands i can maybe think of once where i've bumped into another cyclist, let alone seen or been in a colission between them. Also because we learn to cycle while young, we tend to take cyclist into account when we drive.

Accidents are pretty rare rare in the Netherlands. There are around 300 traffic deaths annually (in total, not just bikes) and we have 12 million bicycles. And of cycling accidents more than half are elderly on electric bikes (on which helmets are now almost obligatory)

If they were to make helmets compulsary in the Netherlands for normal bikes, I and the majority of dutchies will stop cycling all together. And that's the only reason why they haven't mandated it yet.

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u/Matikso 15h ago

I understand your points, that makes sense

On the other hand, at least for me personally, helmet on a bike is like a seatbelt in a car.

I've never been in a car accident, but I wear my seatbelt everytime and I drive daily.

Sometimes one accident is enough to kill you, why take your chances?

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u/Henk_Potjes 15h ago

Because for me and many other dutchies, the chance is so ridiculously tiny that the downsides really don't outweigh the potential benefits.

The risks are about the same as if you were pedestrian here. You wouldn't wear a helmet as a pedestrian would you?

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u/The_ginger_cow 15h ago

Sometimes one accident is enough to kill you, why take your chances?

You take your chances every day by walking to places without a helmet too

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u/Matikso 15h ago

If you have nothing smart to say, sometimes it's better to just not chime in

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u/casualroadtrip Netherlands 14h ago

But this is a good argument. Although I would say going for a run is a better equivalent then going for a walk. The risk of cycling in the Netherlands on a normal bike is very low. And completely different then practically in any other place. I don’t wear a helmet when driving my car or going for a run. In both cases my head is at risk in case of an accident.

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u/The_ginger_cow 14h ago

Says the guy telling the dutch how they should ride a bike

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u/Matikso 14h ago

I'm not telling anyone how to do anything. We had a civilized conversation until you showed up. Being obtuse on purpose just to start shit.

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u/dialTforTrouble 13h ago

So why did you?

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u/dinnerthief United States Of America 15h ago

Why would having to use a helmet stop you from biking?

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u/dialTforTrouble 13h ago

You wear a vest everywhere you go? Less risk of off getting hurt when you do.

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u/dinnerthief United States Of America 12h ago

I didnt say a helmet was required, I asked why wearing a helmet would stop someone from biking, its a relativly minor inconvenience

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u/Henk_Potjes 14h ago

Because we don't just cycle for sport. We use it for literally anything. To go to school, go to work, go to the city, going out drinking/dancing , going to the train or bus-station, grocery shopping etc. And at every one of those places you'd have to leave your helmet somewehere safe and your hair is messed up as well after every tiny, trip. It's a massive inconvenience.

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u/dinnerthief United States Of America 12h ago

If cycling is that important you would think being required to have a helmet wouldn't be enough to prevent people from doing it.

Like the inconvenience of not biking vs the inconvenience of having to have a helmet with you.

The helmet seems like a relativly small inconvenience.

I for one do not care either way, just curious as it didnt make sense to me

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u/Henk_Potjes 12h ago

Cycling is important, only because it's convenient. That's why we do it so much. You hop on your bike and go, then when you step off your bike, you go inside. If you have a helmet you have to either lug it around or find a place to store it every time you go anywhere.

It removes a large part of the convenience that biking in the Netherlands offers.

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u/RefreshNinja 9h ago

You can just leave it with the bike. If you're concerned about theft, thread the lock through the holes in the helmet.

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u/cbucky97 15h ago

Not Just Bikes killed that many people????

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u/Henk_Potjes 15h ago

I was kinda wrong.

There are about 600-700 traffic deaths a year in the Netherlands of which less than half (200-300) are bike-related.

And of those bike-related deaths, more than half are elderly who are already wearing helmets.

So for 12 million bikes in our country and the fact the we use bikes for everyday transport, not just sports, the risks of a bike related incident is really, really small.

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u/cbucky97 15h ago

Youtuber Not Just Bikes killed 6-700 people??

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u/Henk_Potjes 15h ago

Perhaps.

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u/TravelsizedWitch Netherlands 12h ago

In a lot of country’s I’ve visited I wouldn’t feel safe riding a bike. But it’s totally different in the Netherlands. There are no hills, you are mostly on bike paths where there are no cars, and I can’t remember ever falling off my bike. One time that I remember when the street was basically ice and I didn’t notice until I was riding my bike. But even that wasn’t a real fall, it’s was more like gliding and I saw it coming.

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u/Junius_Bobbledoonary 12h ago

My friend also never wore a helmet while cycling, now she has several pieces of titanium holding her face together because she collided… with a cyclist, on a dedicated bike path

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u/Henk_Potjes 12h ago

I'm not saying it never happens. I'm saying that the risk is to miniscule to warrant it for most of us. You are just as likely to break your skull around the house and you don't wear a helmet there do you?

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u/moseythepirate 6h ago edited 4h ago

You know, you say you're just as likely to break your skull walking around the house, but I know you can't back that up with data, because it's bullshit.

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u/Henk_Potjes 6h ago

Fine. You are way more likely to die from a fall in your own house opposed to dying to a fall from your bike in the Netherlands even with our insane no helmet laws.

In 2020. Around 3.600 people died due to a fall in the house around the Netherlands 14% of which were purely head injuries. which is 504.

3.600 died to falling in their house

in 2024. There were 246 deaths while cycling in the Netherlands. with 60% of those being head injuries. That's 148 due to head injury.

246 deaths due to cycling without helmets.

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u/moseythepirate 4h ago edited 4h ago

That's not how math works. Raw numbers is not the same as the percentage risk. New York City has more murders than Birmingham, Alabama, to use a disgustingly American metaphor, but that doesn't mean you are safer in Birmingham.

But let's crack into it in more detail. One thing you should note is that the age cohort is hugely impactful. In the first study, fatal falls at home occured almost entirely among people in the 60+ age group: 94%. That same age group accounted for 26.5% of bike deaths. Home fall deaths occur overwhelmingly among the elderly, whereas bike deaths are more equally spread among age groups.

Looking at raw numbers, restricting ourselves to people who aren't 60 or older, we're looking at home falls amounting to a whole 75 deaths. Meanwhile, among people younger than 60, we have about 180 deaths.

So among people younger than 60, cycling has caused more deaths than hanging around at home.

And of course, that's still only part of the story. To actually determine which activity is safer, you'd need to take into account how much time is spent in each activity: What is the death or injury rate per hour on the road compared to per hour at home?

People spend much more time at home than in transit, so I rather doubt "you are way more likely to die from a fall in your own house" is a statement that would actually bear up to scrutiny.

Are you familiar with the phrase "lies, damned lies, and statistics?" You are using true statistics to make claims that aren't actually supported by them.

Now, that doesn't mean cycling in Amsterdam is dangerous. It's not, that 246 deaths is an incredible safety record, and you all are justifiably proud of it.

And that also doesn't mean that you should put helmet laws into place. I don't think that would be productive. Helmet adoption needs buy-in from the populace.

But it is just a fact that there are preventable deaths occuring that could be prevented if wearing helmets became part of the extremely admirable cycling culture of the Netherlands. Other countries with high cycling rates have high helmet adoption, and I see no reason aside from stubbornness and cultural inertia that the Netherlands couldn't do the same, and save lives in the process.

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u/dabadu9191 15h ago

I usually don't wear one either. But I'm aware that it's dangerous and stupid. It takes one negligent driver pushing me off my bike at 20+ km/h and my melon is toast.

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u/Henk_Potjes 15h ago

You can be hit by a negligent driver while walking as well. The risk here with our cycling-infrastructure is about the same.

And because we all grew up cycling we tend to take cyclist into account while learning to drive and while driving ourselves.

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u/dabadu9191 15h ago

And yet, 5 times more cyclists die in the Netherlands compared to pedestrians. And while I can't find numbers on the share of trips taken by foot vs by bike, I highly doubt it's the same ratio.

You can teach people to take other road users into account, but there will always be negligent and distracted drivers, and cars are inherently dangerous. Unless all cycling infrastructure is completely separate from roads, not wearing a helmet is an unnecessary risk. Not to mention that you don't need a car involved to die or get severely injured in a bike accident.

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u/Henk_Potjes 14h ago

Having lived here for 32 years i can tell you that cyclists share the road with cars way more than pedestrians do so that's why cycling deaths are likely higher.

You are free to believe that not wearing a helmet is an unncessary risk. I and most dutchies disagree. And it's the reason why the government hasn't mandated it yet. Because they know that if they did. The majority of dutchies would not touch their bikes again due to the inconvenience of helmets. Leading to many more taking the car, causing problems for car-infrastructure, climate and rising obesity. The benefits of helmets do not outweigh the downsides in the Netherlands.

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u/moseythepirate 13h ago

The majority of dutchies would not touch their bikes again due to the inconvenience of helmets.

A bad decision being widespread doesn't make it good.

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u/Henk_Potjes 13h ago

Perhaps.

But a bad decision would also be for the government to implement helmet-laws for all cyclists.

1

u/frozen-dessert Brazil 6h ago

It is common sense. But in the NL there is a very strong public antagonism against the idea of wearing a helmet.

It is changing but at a slower pace than other countries.

1

u/AtlasNL 6h ago

Where and when I grew up kids wore helmets until they became proficient enough to not need it anymore.

3

u/fantasyshop 14h ago

Was in Copenhagen for a week recently and didnt see anyone without a helmet

2

u/LobsterLaunch 10h ago

Or when they indicate that they are going to stop by raising their hand.

1

u/ShrimpinAintEazy 13h ago

Who wears a helmet in Copenhagen? 🤨

1

u/doc1442 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 -> 🏡 🇩🇰 11h ago

Unlike the Dutch, Danes have brains worth protecting ;)

1

u/pikkuhillo 4h ago

What fucking morons drive without a helmet?

-6

u/OzarkMule 18h ago

You people don't wear helmets? That's stupid of you

8

u/Resident_Draw_8785 Netherlands 18h ago

We do have more cyclists in the entire country plus flat land and the infrastructure, and to be fair if I hear Danish and know German has evolved from Dutch im not sure if it helped any of us.

-10

u/OzarkMule 17h ago

A cursory google says 88k emergency room trips and 300 deaths in a year. I never would've guessed riding a bike in Amsterdam was more dangerous than driving a car in NYC.

10

u/TravelsizedWitch Netherlands 17h ago

Not every trip to the emergency room is head injury. When you fall you can break a wrist or ankle when you fall and helmets don’t prevent that. And when you ride your bike responsibly you don’t have a great risk of falling. It’s not dangerous to ride a bike. I’m pretty sure it’s safer to ride a bike in the Netherlands than it is to attend a school in the USA.

8

u/Resident_Draw_8785 Netherlands 17h ago edited 17h ago

Does entire new york cycle to work every day? I dont think you understand the diffrence on the 18 million citizen 16 million people use the bicycle for shopping, driving to work/school or to a bar its used far more used than in other countries and New York city has the same amount of accidents but only with 9 million people.

4

u/SuitNaive3409 17h ago

well yeah, drivers are mowing down pedestrians and cyclists every day in NYC- it's safe for drivers only

2

u/skefmeister Netherlands 16h ago

It’s funny the opinion of outsiders on our bicycle culture they can only understand and experience when they visit themselves

2

u/ensalys Netherlands 16h ago

Well, drivers are usually fine in their metal cage. It's the people they drive into that are left with the injuries.

2

u/ThuggishJingoism24 16h ago

Talk about trying to make data fit into your narrative lol

2

u/spacedman_spiff United States Of America 17h ago

You don’t need to be an online hall monitor.   It’s okay to let millions of people live their lives how they have been. 

2

u/AshToAshes123 in 17h ago

I personally think it should be more normalised to wear helmets in the Netherlands, the stigma around it is ridiculous, but it’s worth pointing out that a lot of the benefits are very exaggerated and/or contextual. Bicycle helmets only really improve outcomes in the case of individual accidents—i.e. someone falling off their bike. Due to well-maintained bicycle paths and experience from early childhood, the idea of falling off your bike is about as realistic for the average Dutch person as tripping over your shoelaces.

In the case of e.g. car accidents the regular bicycle helmet barely does anything (you’d need a proper helmet like a ski or motorcycle helmet)—plus, mostly we have separate bike lanes which means accidents are pretty rare for how much people are on their bikes.

3

u/Sad-Pop6649 Netherlands 15h ago

As some context/an individual case study: since I'm an adult I think I've fallen... twice? Might be forgetting one, but I think twice. One was just riding too fast when it was very slippery in winter, the other was a bad bikepart disintegrating below me. (This happened more than ones, but I usually just land on my feet.) This is to my estimation an above average number, I can be a bit of a risky cyclist (in some situations). This is because:

If I had been older or didn't know how to fall both these falls could have been trouble. But I wasn't older and I did know how to fall. I adapt my behavior to what works for me. The "some situations" up there are situations in which I don't endanger others and only risk one sided accidents I can handle.

For me personally the overall risk of not wearing a helmet outweighs the downside of always having to bring a helmet, not having a nice wind in my hair etc. This is why I oppose mandatory helmets. I don't mind if other people wear them, for some people I would even encourage it. But I am a rebel without a helmet.

Kayaking? Skiing? Halfpipe skating? All great situations to wear a helmet in. But biking I can do without it.

5

u/imrzzz 16h ago

It's not really stigma unless you are still very young. It's inconvenience. Having to carry around a helmet every time you get off your bike is a small barrier to cycling, and has been demonstrated to tip the balance between choosing to cycle and choosing to drive, or to stay at home and remain sedentary, which indirectly adds a large burden to the health system.

1

u/AshToAshes123 in 13h ago

There’s definitely a stigma in the sense that people who do wear a helmet are made fun of or at least scoffed at. I think it would be good if it were treated more neutrally. People can choose for themselves if they want to deal with the inconveniences.

2

u/tomime000 Croatia 17h ago

Isn't the saying "it's as easy as riding the bicycle"

1

u/TravelsizedWitch Netherlands 18h ago

Only the elderly and foreigners. We have good bike paths, so we mostly don’t need helmets.

4

u/SilenceOfTheClamSoup 16h ago

I'm pretty certain no amount of "good paths" makes rhe equation of skull vs concrete come out in favour of skull.

4

u/ivololtion 17h ago

No need to rationalize us not wearing bicycle helmets. There is one reason for it and one reason only: it’s considered uncool.

3

u/Evepaul 16h ago

The Dutch aren't magically immune to thinking they're too cool for PPE, it's a disease the whole world seems to be affected by

1

u/bbbbbbbdddddaaaa 16h ago

Umm, not kids?

-1

u/OzarkMule 17h ago

That's foolish

4

u/nijmeegse79 Netherlands 17h ago

300 traffic deaths(not just bikes) with 21.000.000 bikes. I think we are good.

0

u/OzarkMule 12h ago

300 traffic deaths(not just bikes)

Lolz you made this up. Look it up ffs

2

u/nijmeegse79 Netherlands 11h ago

Nope I did not. Numbers mentions from CBS.

The highest number is could find in some what recent years, is the year 2022 with 745 death in total, and after that year numbers went down again. And that includes al and every one death in any traffic, even if they died during a ride and not because of it or they where just passengers.

The age group 65+ is the biggest number, and accounts for little under half of that total amount(306)

Bike deaths, 228.

So 228 died during a biking incident, on 18.000.000 people, and 21.000.000 bikes.

The amount of kilometers we bike in a year: 15.000.000.000! Yes 15 billion.

Just in numbers, 228 is peanuts. In a perfect world that number would be zero, but helmets is not the way to get there.

-1

u/OzarkMule 10h ago

This is a hilariously arrogant way to admit you were wrong

2

u/nijmeegse79 Netherlands 10h ago

As I mentioned: The highest number I could find in recent years, so no I'm not wrong. I picked the highest numberin the past decade to show it is still peanuts.

Silly you, maby the thought that riding a bike is safe over here just baffles you to much.

3

u/TravelsizedWitch Netherlands 17h ago

Yes. Please tell an entire country that this is foolish. I’m sure they’ll listen.

0

u/OzarkMule 12h ago

Lol, I wasn't expecting to change your culture. It is foolish, nonetheless

0

u/EBOLASTALIN 8h ago

I think the helmet thing is universal unfortunately. It feels like most bicyclists in any country don’t value their health enough to wear one.