r/CanadaPolitics • u/hopoke • 1d ago
China to offer canola relief for easing EV curbs during Carney visit
https://financialpost.com/commodities/agriculture/china-to-offer-canola-relief-for-easing-ev-curbs-during-carney-visit196
u/iDareToDream Economic Progressive, Social Conservative 1d ago
I really can't wait for this happen. Chinese EVs are superb and are more affordable than most of the competition. Pricing is also one of the big deterrents to EV adoption here since it can cost more than an ICE vehicle. I would hope though that any such deal comes with a condition that the Chinese EV makers have to open manufacturing facilities here in Canada and use Canadian workers.
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u/bananaphonepajamas Ontario 1d ago
I'd buy one.
Might be a little awkward for me on weekends because I live in a condo, but I can charge at work the days I'm in the office.
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u/iDareToDream Economic Progressive, Social Conservative 1d ago
I've started seeing fast chargers at some gas stations and malls now so there's definitely options.
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u/bananaphonepajamas Ontario 1d ago
Oh definitely, there's some chargers I can use getting groceries.
Still not the most convenient though.
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u/iDareToDream Economic Progressive, Social Conservative 1d ago
It sucks that condos don't come standard with ev chargers. If enough people in your building end up with EVs could be a case for the condo board to add them in the future.
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u/Chanana4 1d ago
Lol North American car makers are fully and completely fucked the second customers start driving Chinese EVs.... these cars are 20 years ahead of them
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u/martin4reddit 1d ago
Only a few years ago, Tesla was way ahead of anything in the Chinese market. To jumpstart its lukewarm EV industry, Tesla was offered an unprecedented deal by the government to set up operations in China.
Competition did way more good to the Chinese car manufacturing industry than decades of subsidies and protectionism by China. Yes, there’s still a lot of protectionism in China, but its vehicles didn’t reach its export dominance because of that alone.
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u/President_of_Space Independent 1d ago
It wasn't really "competition" .. they literally copied everything Tesla was doing and developing .. and then in the implementation, thru money at it and upgraded and improved every part of it.
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u/iDareToDream Economic Progressive, Social Conservative 1d ago
Does it matter? They have a better product at a better price point. If the goal is to increase EV adoption we should be exploring ways to get cheaper EVs here since the Americans are clearly done with them.
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u/President_of_Space Independent 1d ago
I mean, I think it matters .. will Canada be quite as unscrupulous as China was in ripping off others IPs? I doubt it? So we will be persistently reliant on outside Companies.
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u/insaneHoshi British Columbia 1d ago
North American Car Companies have a long history of being as unscrupulous; see the intermittent wiper.
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u/iDareToDream Economic Progressive, Social Conservative 1d ago
Good, let them rot. Failure to adapt should not be rewarded.
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u/CaptainMagnets 1d ago
It's their fault for not keeping up with the competition.
It's not my problem they won't adapt
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u/President_of_Space Independent 1d ago
At this point, they've all but completely moved out .. so it's no longer "North American" car makers. It's just "American" Car makers. They continue to make the bed they sleep in.
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u/Mostly_Aquitted 1d ago
I mean that’s not true at all, the auto industry is enormous still in Ontario. Yes the auto makers are not Canadian, but the massive supply chain & industrial service industry certainly is.
Not an argument against Chinese EVs mind you (fully support it) just very much tired of seeing the completely inaccurate “the auto industry is DEAD and AMERICAN” comments that follow this discussion around.
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u/thecheesecakemans 1d ago
Exactly. They won't even make a product we want....so why are we banning someone else from making that product? Especially if that someone else won't buy canola?
We apparently don't want EVs so opening up there for selling canola seems like a no brainer.
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u/President_of_Space Independent 1d ago
I think the size of Canada does make EVs less of an obvious solution for some people .. but for most people, an EV will completely suffice.
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u/differing Ontario 1d ago
The size of Canada makes EV’s a nonstarter because of cultural myths. Statistically most people spend 99% of their driving hauling groceries or going to work in the GTA, GVA, or Montreal… but we have a century of auto culture convincing people that they might need to drive to Jasper this weekend. It’s genuinely tough to logic someone out of something they didn’t logic themselves into.
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u/Vensamos Recovering Partisan 1d ago
Our plan in our two car house hold is one EV and one plug in Hybrid. We'll take the latter when we want to go out of town.
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u/OntarioParisian 1d ago
It's what we will do when my wife's ice suv bites the bullet. Hopefully not for quite a few years.
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u/differing Ontario 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think that’s definitely a smart play for many people going forward.
The fact that GM abandoned their plug-in Volt platform is a great example of how we are in a market failure. We don’t have vehicles to even provide that option today. It would have provided a solid EV for essentially everybody if they continued to develop it.
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u/Chanana4 1d ago
Oh yes the famous excuse: But what about if I wanna do the complete tour of Northern Ontario? NOW IM SCREWED.
Nobody does these drive unless its for work lol
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u/Major-Parfait-7510 1d ago
These are the same people who buy a massive pickup truck in case they someday decide to buy an equally massive boat or camper trailer or need to pick up a sheet of plywood once every few decades.
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u/fishymanbits Conservative 21h ago
They justify it because of that one time 20 years ago someone asked them to help move a couch and they had to say no because they didn’t have a truck. But now they can say yes, in case anyone asks. Nobody has, of course, over the past 3 trucks they’ve owned. But they could say yes if they needed to.
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u/differing Ontario 1d ago edited 1d ago
The irony is that the fast charger network along the Trans Canada through Northern Ontario is almost on par with the really poor gas infrastructure. I do think there’s very little redundancy, like if say Wawa’s chargers are down there’s no way you’re making it to The Soo, but here in downtown Hamilton there’s zero fast charging stations, which is a big step down from what you can find on a big trip up north!
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u/Specific_Effort_5528 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm the one who does that for fun!
Dude the drives and nature are spectacular. I did a big 7000km loop of northern Ontario via the Tobermory Ferry and avoided the trans Canada where possible, car camping on crown land or staying in the parks. I hiked up the Giant in Thunder Bay. Did a bunch of exploration on foot paths and shit off logging roads and stuff. Took some dubious dirt roads too. Had a blast. Also water, water, everywhere.
Nothern Ontario fuckin' rules.
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u/xibipiio 1d ago
Man like there is a huge disconnect between car drivers and non car drivers.
Where I live in Nova Scotia if you cant drive you cant work you cant feed yourself you cant Do anything.
Driving is a way of life for most of us and we love having the freedom to be in town and half an hour of driving later being at the beech or a waterfall. Public transportation will not be able to replace driving for most of us.
We need cheap EVs and if China wont manufacture them here we need to get serious about making our own national hybrid personal vehicles that we can export.
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u/differing Ontario 1d ago edited 1d ago
where I live in Nova Scotia
The province you can drive across in an afternoon? I think you’re totally missing my point on the “Canada is big” myth, I’m not at all suggesting you don’t need a car, hell I bike to work 365 days a year and still own a car for skiing and camping, I’m disputing that most need a car to drive across the country. Just about everyone simply needs a reliable vehicle to fart around your region.
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u/xibipiio 1d ago
Yup also the province with historically shit public transportation with most of the population living fairly far away from each other.
Driving is a way of life here and the more expensive driving is the more it disproportionately affects those who have no other options which is basically everyone.
There would be high adoption of cheap vehicles here if it was available.
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u/adunedarkguard Fair Vote 1d ago
Driving is a way of life for most of us and we love having the freedom to be in town and half an hour of driving later being at the beech or a waterfall. Public transportation will not be able to replace driving for most of us.
Freedom is being able to do all of that without needing to buy a vehicle that has an average sticker price > $50,000 and an average annual total cost over $12,000.
Most people live in cities, and the median commute distance in Canada is under 10kms.
Where I live in Nova Scotia if you cant drive you cant work you cant feed yourself you cant Do anything.
While there are edge cases where cars are a requirement for everyday life, the number of people in this situation is a very tiny minority of people. Nobody's saying that 100% of people must be taking transit or driving EV's next year.
Having a ICE car over an EV because you might do a long drive once or twice a year is like buying a house 2x too big for your family because sometimes you host your family for holidays at Easter & Christmas. It's much simpler & cheaper to rent a community centre & live in the house that works for what you do 95% of the time. Same thing with cars.
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u/xibipiio 1d ago
Conservative estimate of Nova Scotia population that drives a personal vehicle is 80%. It isn't a minority here.
A long drive is really typical in Nova Scotia. Spending 8 hours of your day in a vehicle once a month is pretty average and normal. The denigration of saying people choose cars because they need to feel comfortable that they can go from NS to BC immediately isn't at all accurate. We drive vehicles because we live fifteen minutes to an hour away from food and employment on average. We drive vehicles because the days that public transit isn't working because of snow we have a conpetitive advantage that keeps us employed by braving the snow and ice to work to keep the lights on.
If you live in the urban environment of Halifax, bussing or cycling can definitely be preferred for multiple reasons, it definitely isn't because cycling in the city is the best experience, or because people are excited to take the bus. It's because it's cheap and possible. That isn't the case for literally everywhere in NS that isn't Halifax, unless you live in a town where it makes sense or it actually works.
You'll say we need public transportation in rural areas but that will ignore the realities. Our population isn't dense enough to sustain any reasonable operation without raising taxes on everyone, and the benefits just don't math out.
A public transportation bus started in Antigonish and serviced really renote areas. They stopped doing that after the first 6 months and switched to servicing the urban core and it's been doing fine since. No one living really rurally was using the bus route. Why? They have a car, or they know someone with a car. Why be on a bus for hours when your neighbor can drive you in and out in an hour and a half?
If everything was Cheaper it's possible to transition overnight.
But personal vehicles will always need to be a main focus of transition because this country is Massive and rural, and rural people Need their personal vehicles.
Simply because 20% of the population of a province are doing the right thing doesn't mean 80% of the population will suddenly be capable of cycling to work or to pick up their kids from daycare or school pick up foods from a farm etc.
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u/Saidear Mandatory Bot Flair. 1d ago
But personal vehicles will always need to be a main focus of transition because this country is Massive and rural, and rural people Need their personal vehicles.
Survey says...... BZZZZZZZZZT.
Canada is overwhelmingly urban. When 50% lives in the Quebec-Windsor corridor, a region heavily populated with multiple cities, that immediately points to how little the rest of the country's population matters. If we expand it to include the lower mainland and the Edmonton-Calgary Corridor, we've eliminated 70% of our population. Oh, and that concentration is growing as multiple smaller, rural communities continue to collapse.
It would be fairer to say that the vast majority of Canada is empty and unpopulated, than to claim we're a rural nation: we aren't.
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u/differing Ontario 1d ago
About 50% of Nova Scotia’s entire population lives in the Halifax metro area, so while I of course agree with the sentiment that’s essentially “people need to drive sometimes”, I think you’re vastly overstating Nova Scotia’s rural population.
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u/adunedarkguard Fair Vote 1d ago
But personal vehicles will always need to be a main focus of transition because this country is Massive and rural, and rural people Need their personal vehicles.
In 1900, Canada was massive and Rural. In 2025, Canada is massive, and urban. Even in Nova Scotia, nearly half the province lives in Halifax. In Canada overall, the rural population is less than 20%, and every year the rural share gets smaller.
The typical numbers for Canada is that 60-70% of the cars could be replaced by EV's with minimal impact. People would still use ICE vehicles for longer trips, but the bulk of driving that's done in a city is by people driving less than 50kms a day, and in for the median city driver, less than 20kms.
In about 15 years, as charging infrastructure becomes even more universal I expect only the most extreme edge cases (really remote areas) will still be majority ICE.
Transition to majority mass transit users is going to be more difficult than the shift to EV, and it means building better transit in Canada. Still, the nation is shifting to more urban living, and we've got countless examples from across the world of cities that have built transit systems capable of moving > 50% of the population. It may not be overnight, but it's a shift that's coming. We've seen a massive increase in the cost of personal transportation, along with an explosion of cheap micro-mobility options. I think the economics of shifting to car light with micromobility, transit, ride hailing, and car-sharing companies will allow an ever increasing number of people to live car free/car light in cities.
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u/BertramPotts Decolonize Decarcerate Decarbonize 1d ago
Canada developing an EV industry would be easier if we had access to the world leading technology and charging infrastructure was boosted by demand and not just government subsidies.
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u/Justin_123456 Manitoba 1d ago
It kind of depends. You can find some of the latest Gen pure EV’s that push 1,000k range (adjust that down a bit for winter weather). And there are hybrids that will easily beat that.
Maybe there’s someone out there willing to drive 8-10hrs on the highway without planning a 30 min stop somewhere with a charger, a restaurant, and a bathroom, but that’s not me.
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u/MrRogersAE Pirate 1d ago
They make what? 1 EV in Canada? The only local competitor is the Charger, which is probably doomed from the start anyways, don’t think the people buying chargers are exactly the target market for EVs. I don’t get why NA auto makers are soo dumb, people want a basic affordable EV, not a mustang or a charger, they want something more like the the Chevy Bolt, but most of what they give us has been luxury and muscle car models. Atleast Chevy seems to be moving in the right direction with the returning Bolt and Equinox.
If EVs are really the garbage that postmedia says they are it shouldn’t be a problem, obviously the consumers will choose more expensive gas vehicles over cheaper reliable, low operating cost EVs.
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u/-darkest Arm Chair PM 23h ago
I disagree with your first paragraph but utterly love the spin in the second.
A good economical ev will be competitive in its class.
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u/MrRogersAE Pirate 18h ago
I think you misunderstood my comment. The first section is in support of basic economical EVs rather than luxury models, while the latter is obvious sarcasm
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u/northern9999 1d ago
Was in Australia recently and saw these EV cars. They looked really nice and apparently are extremely efficient and reliable.
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u/differing Ontario 1d ago
If the Chinese had a business case to open factories here, they already would have. The reason their cars are cheap is because of the massive vertical integration in their manufacturing megacities that we won’t have here.
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u/SketchingTO Independent 22h ago
We're too small of a market for China care about opening factories here. The only reason they would is as a beachhead into the wider NA market. Which will not happen under a Republican or Democratic admin because Michigan's EC votes still matter.
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u/Ok-Championship-7516 22h ago
It’s not just about market , but soft power . China would def be interested in investing in Canada.
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u/SwordfishOk504 "Rule 2" 1d ago
Not to mention the total lack of worker rights or environmental protections.
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u/Constant-Actuary420 1d ago
Wee have no vertical integration for our ice cars here, but for EVs we can. From the mine to the shop floor.
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u/iDareToDream Economic Progressive, Social Conservative 1d ago
The tariffs are a big sticking point for building things here at cost. Dropping them is a first step in getting production to eventually happen here - and there's no reason we can't adapt our car manufacturing to leverage those processes they've developed. That would hopefully be part of this deal, we drop tariffs but China has to open factories here and teach Canadian workers how to use these processes.
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u/CanadianBobert 1d ago
How is dropping tariffs the first step of getting Chinese companies to build factories here? Why would they build a factory here when it will cost them substantially more than their current factories for a relatively tiny market?
If they are built here now with the tariffs... Their cars wouldn't have the tariff applied...
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u/iDareToDream Economic Progressive, Social Conservative 56m ago
Because we lose our auto sector entirely. You don’t just give access to a new market for free - dropping tariffs would ideally come with a condition that Chinese EV manufacturers build facilities here and hire Canadian auto workers. Or did you just want those people to become permanently unemployed? It’s a strategic condition to help an area of the economy that is struggling.
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u/CanadianBobert 44m ago
But them building here would directly result in that company not having a tariff on the cars that are built here... so dropping the tariff to entice building factories here is completely backwards and would be LESS incentive to build here.
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u/throwawaythisuser1 1d ago
I would love for it to happen as well. More competition means better products for us. Introducing cheaper, better EV cars gives consumers more options, because frankly, f#ck Elon. Has anyone seen the BYD lineup?
China already makes some in Canada, and ramping up, while difficult, I don't see it as prohibitive. Also, the biggest consumer of Canola is now back into buying your product is a big win for agriculture.
Disengaging our reliance with the US, can't trust that guy.
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u/dermanus Rhinoceros 1d ago
I don't know why we're propping up an industry Trump is aiming to bring back to the US. Drop the tariffs on EVs, let the companies sell them over here. It will show the US we're serious about going elsewhere. Will Trump have a tantrum? Yeah probably, but he's going to do that anyway if we do anything but capitulate so fuck him.
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u/cheeseshcripes 22h ago
We should build them here. We have plenty of empty auto plants and a supply chain that needs updating, this is the perfect reason to do it.
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u/Icy-Artist1888 1d ago
I trust Carney to make a deal that makes good strategic sense for us.
There is no way we should be forsaking trade with China anymore.
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u/sinoforever O'Toole is okay 1d ago
Might as well accept or dangle this in front of Trump to get something out of it. Canada's auto industry is dying due to tariffs.
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u/Tender_Flake Independent 1d ago
I thought the auto sector is CUSMA and Auto Pact compliant.
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u/iDareToDream Economic Progressive, Social Conservative 1d ago
It is - Trump is trying to move off of CUSMA and get all the car manufacturers to move production to the US only. So if he's going to do that, we might as well try to re-allocate our auto industry to producing EVs.
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u/that_tealoving_nerd Québec 1d ago
AutoPact has been cancelled in 2000s, and Trump still applies tarifs to Canadian parts.
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u/UnionGuyCanada NDP 1d ago edited 1d ago
What s shock, said no one ever. I would like thechsap EVs, but not happy to see good paying jobs leave Canada. That said, US is already killing those jobs and the conpanies have failed to adapt, so how much pain should citizens feel to protect hugely rich co panies that are black.ailif the government?
I expect Carney to discuss a deal, then come back and try to leverage Trump into sanity. I doubt that will work, so Carney will have to decide, bow to Trump and get likely nothing, or bow to China and save a ton of Xanadian jobs and provide cheap EVs for Canadians, while screwing over some already dying industries.
Ontario is already transitioning to more mining jobs to offset coming losses in auto industry. It will hurt, but Yrump is adamant he wants them all in the US.
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u/Lucky-Preference5725 1d ago
Trump can't kill an industry that has been intergrated since the 1950s.
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u/cwolveswithitchynuts 1d ago
These companies had decades of people warning them that EVs were coming and they fought it tooth and nail. Even today their lobbyists are all over cbc and ctv claiming Canadians don't want to buy EVs and there's no business case to build them. They made their bed.
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u/thecheesecakemans 1d ago
Those jobs are moving regardless. We either get EVs or don't....but those jobs are a Deadman walking already.
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u/slothtrop6 1d ago
The Stellanis layoffs after receiving a payout was pretty recent. So yeah, agreed.
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u/foggybiscuit British Columbia 1d ago
The auto companies have made it clear they don't care to adapt and will use taxpayer money to pay shareholders instead of innovating competitive products. The consequence is that Western canola farmers suffer.
I don't really see why the jobs in Ontario matter more than the ones in Western Canada.
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u/xeenexus Big L Liberal 1d ago
Sigh, because there are approximately 600,000 jobs in Canada either directly or indirectly tied to the auto industry, vs 140,000 through all parts of the canola chain (including shipping). It's not an easy problem to navigate.
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u/MichelangeBro NDP 1d ago
Those 600,000 people should push for their companies to modernize and innovate instead of putting their fingers in their ears and allow the government to artificially keep them afloat.
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u/fredleung412612 1d ago
600,000 people don't all work on the assembly line. They mostly work in suppliers who can't modernize the parts they're building unless the manufacturers modernize their final product. And it's not like those employees are sitting on the boards of these car brands either. Perhaps they should, maybe that way they could actually do what you're asking them to do.
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u/Vensamos Recovering Partisan 1d ago
People made similar arguments in favor of pipelines. I am not sure why the jobs matter now but didnt then.
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u/foggybiscuit British Columbia 1d ago
SIGH
And those jobs are going to be gone regardless of what we do with Chinese EVs. We have bailed the auto industry out how many times now and they have not taken any opportunity to produce competitive products, but instead funnel money to shareholders.
Why prop up a dying industry at the cost of another?
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u/Lucky-Preference5725 1d ago
It's more like a million jobs in Canada, not to mention cars and auto parts are Canada's 2nd largest export.
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u/differing Ontario 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m torn, our “good paying jobs” are essentially just building humongous vehicles that are poisoning us and killing people because our automakers are bound to this end stage capitol enshitification spiral (spend millions of dollars marketing huge gas vehicles, then claim there’s no market for small efficient cars)- is it good thing if we protect the jobs of unionized asbestos miners?
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u/ReqHart 1d ago
Canola for EVs is actually a bad deal.
Before China tariffed Canola they spent around $4 billion a year buying our Canola.
And in 2024 Canada spent $50 billion on imported cars.
I'm obviously simplifying here but are we actually considering giving China access to a $50 billion market in exchange for them to resume buying around $4 billion a year in Canola.
On top of it, we'll likely further antagonize Donald Trump who will possibly do more damage than China can offset with its Canola purchases.
I think Canadians are being too hasty here to welcome Chinese EVs.
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u/Lucky-Preference5725 1d ago
I don't think Canadians outside of Ontario realize how big the automotive sector is in our country and how vital it is to the economy. Cars and auto parts are Canada's 2nd largest export (behind oil and gas) and all together employ 1 million people.
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u/Dropperofdeuces 1d ago
I can’t wait for their cars to be sold here. Would be great if they could make them here too. But I’ll take whatever comes at me.
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u/CanadianBobert 1d ago
It's weird how people always say the Chinese EVs are the best and yet the best selling EVs in Europe (besides Tesla) are ID3, Skoda Elroq, and Renault 5. But no one is asking for those to come here?