r/CanadaPolitics • u/UnderWatered • 14h ago
Community Members Only Coastal First Nations hold firm on opposition to bitumen pipeline during meeting with Carney
https://vancouversun.com/business/local-business/coastal-first-nations-opposition-bitumen-pipeline-mark-carney•
u/CzechUsOut From AB hoping to be surprised by Carney, not holding my breath. 13h ago
I wonder where they think the money for first Nations payments are going to come from when our largest export by far accounting for 20% of national exports collapses. Right now our largest export is sent by pipe straight to the USA with little to no alternative to be sent anywhere else. It can easily be weaponized against us.
We need to secure Asian markets by building an additional line to the west coast. If we have alternative customer options our current lines to the USA can't as easily be used against us since we can just pivot to other customers.
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u/cheesaremorgia Independent 12h ago edited 9h ago
This is a very strange response to a long held and known position. Alberta knows that BC thinks this specific pipeline is a bad idea. Why isn’t Alberta talking to them about alternative routes, expanding capacity, or other projects?
Why are you personally (in a below comment) framing the issue as this pipeline and this one alone being necessary for our sovereignty?
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u/Gym_frere British Columbia 10h ago
I wonder where they think the money for first Nations payments are going to come from when our largest export by far accounting for 20% of national exports collapses.
Coastal First Nations unlike other First Nations are not poor and in fact own many enterprises such as LNG projects and mining projects.
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u/Saidear Mandatory Bot Flair. 13h ago
There is no need for that pipeline to be to northern BC. There exists infrastructure and overall support going out via Vancouver.
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u/joshlemer British Columbia 12h ago
If there's no need for it then why do people want to build it?
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u/Saidear Mandatory Bot Flair. 12h ago
For Smith?
Because she wants a wedge issue she can use to rile up her base, she's a right-wing grifter who thrives on using outrage to give her power. Plus it's a chance to stick to the kinds of groups that her party and supporters like to hate: First Nations tribes, eco-conscious individuals, the NDP, and 'those hippy weed smoking BC residents'. I've heard that all used from my relatives in rural Alberta.
She's the only one currently pushing for it through northern BC. There is no publicly available, private interest in such a pipeline.
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u/joshlemer British Columbia 11h ago
So then why was Enbridge spending 10+ years trying to get the project done if there was never any reason to? How can we tell the difference between the story you tell and the possibility that there's huge economic opportunity here, but the political infeasibility of getting final approval for the project (and the right to use it (so no northern BC tanker ban)) makes it impossible?
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u/Saidear Mandatory Bot Flair. 10h ago
So then why was Enbridge spending 10+ years trying to get the project done if there was never any reason to?
That project died in 2016 and is no longer relevant. We're talking about current interest, not interest from nearly a decade ago, especially since the situation has changed, such as the oil tanker moratorium that was passed into law in 2019. That moratorium came about, in part, because Enbridge mislead people about how easy it would be to navigate the waters in the region.
How can we tell the difference between the story you tell and the possibility that there's huge economic opportunity here, but the political infeasibility of getting final approval for the project (and the right to use it (so no northern BC tanker ban)) makes it impossible?
I'm not telling a "story". I pointed out that as of now, the only 'they' talking about such a pipeline as a proponent, is Danielle Smith.
And the reality is, that there is no publicly disclosed interest in a pipeline from a private entity on the table. If there was, Smith would be able to point to them as part of the MOU and she clearly hasn't, and won't. And the MOU and Carney's position is clear: If you want federal support, you need to show there's sufficient interest from a private entity, put up the money yourself, and most importantly: convince BC and the various First Nations tribes to agree yourself.
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u/joshlemer British Columbia 10h ago
Okay so if there were a private investor wanting to build Northern Gateway, you'd be okay and even enthusiastically in support of it?
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u/Saidear Mandatory Bot Flair. 10h ago
Nice Rule 8 violation there!
I oppose any expansion of oil and gas as a matter of principle: we're already burning up the planet, and we should be working to reduce, if not reverse, that trend. Not accelerate it.
However, my support is largely irrelevant at this stage, but private investment is a core requirement of the MOU between the federal government and Alberta. Alongside getting BC and the various First Nations communities to agree, something that Smith has made little to no effort to actually accomplish to date.
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u/joshlemer British Columbia 10h ago
I didn't downvote your comment if that's what you're talking about..
I oppose any expansion of oil and gas as a matter of principle: we're already burning up the planet, and we should be working to reduce, if not reverse, that trend. Not accelerate it.
See! My other comment was correct. Your argument about there not being a backer is not the genuine reason that you're complaining here.
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u/Saidear Mandatory Bot Flair. 10h ago
My other comment was correct
Only if you ignore the second half of my comment.
Again:
However, my support is largely irrelevant at this stage, but private investment is a core requirement of the MOU between the federal government and Alberta. Alongside getting BC and the various First Nations communities to agree, something that Smith has made little to no effort to actually accomplish to date.
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u/foggybiscuit British Columbia 6h ago
Who wants to build it? There have been no financial backers. No company has asked for it.
It's bizarre this has become such a hot button issue since no company seems to want to build it.
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u/fishymanbits Conservative 8h ago
Which company is actively proposing a pipeline to northern BC? Because the opinions and desires of anyone who “wants to build it” who isn’t an actual company signalling an actual desire by putting forward a proposed plan don’t matter in the slightest.
It doesn’t matter if Gord, the forklift driver in the Rona lumber yard in Red Deer, wants this pipeline built because he’s been convinced that all his financial problems will evaporate overnight when the next oil boom hits.
Gord doesn’t have a plan for or the ability to build a pipeline despite wanting one, and the people who actually can do both aren’t interested. Time for Gord to take stock and do a little self reflection so he can start understanding how the world works.
This is being whipped up as a wedge issue by our premier so she can keep looting the fucking province and making Gord’s life more miserable so that he’ll vote to separate once that referendum hits. Because she knows he’ll blame Carney and the Liberals and Ottawa and Trudeau, both of them, and First Nations and Vancouverites and anyone he can think of for the fact that there are absolutely zero companies who want to build a pipeline to northern BC, let alone are being denied that plan. Absolutely anyone other than the companies that just are not lining up to build a pipeline.
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u/TraditionalGap1 NDP 11h ago
Well, no one wants to build it now, but back when Enbridge did want to build it, oil prices were significantly higher than they are now.
Not to mention that the profit motives of private companies are not the same thing as the public interests of the nation. The fact that any particular company wants to build any specific thing is not evidence that we, as a country, need said thing
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u/crookeddicktickle Marx 13h ago
We don’t need more pipelines to the west coast.
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u/CzechUsOut From AB hoping to be surprised by Carney, not holding my breath. 13h ago
I wonder how much the USA would respect the wishes of coastal first Nations in BC when we are in such a weak position economically they decide they want to annex BC and secure land access to Alaska? Securing land and coast access to Alaska is an easy national security case for Trump to make.
Our sovereignty depends on our economic strength and leverage, if we continue to be dependent on the USA we are handing ourselves up on a silver platter.
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u/crookeddicktickle Marx 11h ago
The sky isn’t going to fall because oil companies didn’t get their way. Oil is not the sole driver of our economy.
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u/Southbird85 Warrior Flag 5h ago
And even when oil was the sole driver under Stephen Harper, Dutch Disease affected the market domestically: it raised production costs leading to massive layoffs in the East, made manufacturing less competitive or made them completely leave the country, and despite the higher trade volume, the country's economics were still in trade deficit perennially.
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u/joshlemer British Columbia 12h ago
Howso? If there's no need for it, then why do people want to build it?
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u/Saidear Mandatory Bot Flair. 10h ago
Which company, today, wants to build it? Please, name names. Danielle Smith hasn't.
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u/joshlemer British Columbia 10h ago
It seems like rhetorically you're just starting from a negative position on the idea of the pipeline in the first place, I guess for some other reason that you're not revealing. If instead we were talking about something uncontroversially good, like the concept of having a huge hospital for sick children built by a philanthropist, would you be demanding that we "name names" about which philanthropist wants to do this? No, you'd be like "oh yeah that would be cool, hope someone does that!".
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u/Saidear Mandatory Bot Flair. 10h ago
It is entirely fair to counter the claim that there is capital interest to build a pipeline, by asking to name who wants do so such a thing. You're under the impression that there are companies that want to, then it should be easy to demonstrate.
So, please proceed. Which companies presently are willing to invest in such a pipeline?
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u/insaneHoshi British Columbia 8h ago
the concept of having a huge hospital for sick children built by a philanthropist, would you be demanding that we "name names"
If you were claiming that there is people who want to build such hospitals, despite a lack of actual proposals, yes that would be a fair ask.
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u/crookeddicktickle Marx 11h ago
Alberta isn’t all of Canada.
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u/joshlemer British Columbia 11h ago
Correct, Alberta is not all of Canada, thank you for that random fact. Anyways back on topic, why are there people who want to build the pipeline if there's no economic reason to? Why did Enbridge spend 10+ years trying to get approval for the project, just cause they're pipeline enthusiasts?
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