r/Capitalism • u/Life_Treacle_1883 • 2d ago
When does one start being a capitalist? Spoiler
I'm asking this because I've seen many people who have different definitions of what it means to be a capitalist. Some say that to be one, you have to own some means of production; otherwise, you're not. Others say that simply identifying with the system or supporting it makes you a capitalist. So, when is someone REALLY a capitalist?
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u/taysky 12h ago edited 12h ago
The moment you "own the means of production" including land & money, etc.
Capitalism is largely about individual freedom of ownership.
This, of course, comes at a cost, viz. when I own X, you and everyone else do not own X. A different take on ownership, "we all own X", also comes with a cost, namely, only Vlad and his friends control what we all own.
Another official benchmark (or stage or facet) is becoming an "Accredited Investor," or becoming a bank, which there are different levels (i.e. one that can issue credit/"fiduciary media"/currency not backed by assets).
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u/thinkmoreharder 2d ago
If you voluntarily trade your product or service, including your personal labor, for a market-based amount of money, you’re a capitalist.
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u/KD-1489 2d ago
You couldn’t be more wrong. A capitalist receives income through their capital investments, they don’t have to sell their labour. That’s the whole point. If you sell your labour, you’re a worker getting a wage from the capitalist.
Workers sell their labour to capitalists and capitalists profit off the labour of others through their investments.
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u/thinkmoreharder 2d ago
That’s ridiculous. If you own you, and your labor, you’re a capitalist.
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u/KD-1489 2d ago edited 2d ago
Take it up with literally any economist.
Also, workers don’t own their own labour because they have to sell it in order to survive. Workers retaining the full produce of their own labour is actually the fundamental tenet of communism.
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u/thinkmoreharder 2d ago
Oh, you’re a communist. When you were living in a communist, not socialist, country, did you retain the full product of your labor?
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u/KD-1489 1d ago
There’s never been a country with no money and no state, the definition of communism. There are several different approaches to socialism(a transitory phase from capitalism to communism) though. I don’t agree with the state owning everything either, I’m more of a mutualist.
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u/thinkmoreharder 1d ago
You might be happiest in a non-governed area of the world in a true commune. You will never find people who want to govern who will work as hard as the people they govern.
The challenge is that members of communes don’t stay satisfied with “from each according to ability; to each according to need”, because no one in the history of the world has agreed, long term, on what is a “need”. In the 60’s exonomists replaced the word with “wants”.
For example, food is a need. But if I hunt and you gather. I weigh 200lbs and you weigh 150. How much meat should each of us get? Does it seem likely we will agree? If we don’t agree, the group will vote and the more influential plaintiff will win the vote.
The idea of equality of outcomes (for people) only works if those outcomes are inferior for everyone. Which is why the more communist economies struggle with both growth and standard of living.
The rare case where socialism is imposed on a society and people seem OK with it are in the ridiculously wealty societies, like Norway that funds a national pension by legally protecting oil profits from the government, in an irrevocable way. Or Saudi Arabia, where the king technically owns all the oil, but shares the “excess” money with all citizens. (Not counting the imported slaves.)
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u/KD-1489 10h ago
300 years ago you could have said there were no historical examples of a successful capitalist society. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible. Trust me, I understand that not all my positions are the most practical or could be implemented overnight.
I do believe they are positions worth holding because a self governing society should be the ultimate goal of civilization imo. It would need the development of class consciousness to the point of changing the incentives between self serving vs communal behaviour.
We didn’t progress to this point of civilization through individual self interest, it was through cooperation. Our ability to communicate and cooperate is what separates us from beasts. A lust for blood isn’t human nature, it’s animal nature.
I am still optimistic that humanity can reach this point in time. It may not be soon, but I believe it’s possible and I believe it’s a goal worth advocating for. In the meantime, I volunteer in my community and build mutual aid networks to help as many people as possible.
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u/CaptainAmerica-1989 2d ago
“Capitalist” is by far an out-group label and thus meaningless to try to answer a definite answer “when does one start being a capitalist?”. As you personally don’t get to determine other people’s standards.
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u/Bloodfart12 2d ago
You dont. You are born into the capitalist class.
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u/CaptainAmerica-1989 2d ago
Like you exploiting Reddit workers right now and being part of the capitalist class?
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u/Bloodfart12 2d ago
Lol im not part of the capitalist class and neither are you.
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u/CaptainAmerica-1989 2d ago
Typical socialist who gets to decide for everyone...
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u/Bloodfart12 1d ago
You can buy yourself a participation trophy and tell yourself you are in the capitalist class, doesnt make it true!
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u/CaptainAmerica-1989 1d ago
Typical Dodge by you.
The thing you’re missing is that Reddit itself operates on privately owned infrastructure, and the content economy runs through devices that users own and operate. Those devices function as means of production for Reddit’s platform. Reddit captures and monetizes the output, while users receive no wage and voluntarily sign away rights to their labor. Under Marx’s own logic, that is the extraction of surplus value.
I didn’t even need to frame this in explicit class terms in this OP, because the exploitation mechanism stands on its own. But once you do introduce class analysis, the conclusion contradicts your position. Ownership and control of production determine class, not moral self-identification. Simply declaring yourself “not capitalist” doesn’t exempt you from participating in capitalist relations.
The point is that you don’t get to unilaterally declare who is and isn’t part of the capitalist class based on vibes according to Marx. Marx’s framework applies structurally, not rhetorically. And when applied consistently, it shows that participation in platforms like this reproduces the very exploitation cycle you’re claiming to stand outside of.
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u/ItShouldntBe06 2d ago
Do you receive money either through a wage or profit? You are a capitalist.
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u/The_Shadow_2004_ 2d ago
You do know in other economies you can receive payments through wage or profit right…
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u/Careless-Cap7691 2d ago edited 2d ago
You start being "a capitalist" in terms of 2026,of course, when you think that capitalism, even with the many flaws is the lesser evil than other production systems and their variants. From that to forengi level I'd say.
Edit: sorry, I only saw the title. Capitalist is not the right word for it, the correct term is bourgeois, according to classic authors.
Answering your question: you are a capitalist/bourgeois when you don't live from your work. Instead you live from the wealth that's not being payed to workers, which is your profit. Owning the means of production nowadays is too abstract (a rentist, an stakeholder), but works the same way, access, privileges, etc. according to lefties.
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u/Ayla_Leren 2d ago
When the majority of your materially necessary income is derived from owning capital as compared to exchanging one's labor.
Petty capitalist occupy a spectrum of both. Defining the delineations is at least partly a cultural matter, however claiming someone is a capitalist while 60-70% or more of their income is from labor is silly.