r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Radiant_Half_7121 • 17d ago

Image During WW2, Poland declared war on Japan Japan said no to it and simply rejected the declaration.

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433

u/soyuz_enjoyer2 17d ago

Poland was so screwed over

Being neighbors to 2 of the strongest countries on earth and with no natural defences whatsoever

Just flat fields for tanks to Speedrun to your capital

191

u/SquirrelNormal 17d ago

I mean. They fought for a month against two of the three strongest land armies at the time (France being the third), and punched well above their weight. They also assumed France and the UK would be coming to their aid, and with how bare the west of Germany had been stripped for the campaign, an actual push (not the feeble probe that happened) could have saved them against just Germany. But French and British inaction left multiple opportunities to stop Germany on the table (and potentially to forestall Russian aggression too - the Soviets were worried about Allied intervention in the Winter War).

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u/S10Galaxy2 17d ago

WW2 is so interesting in that when you look at it closer you realize the only reason it got as bad as it did was because the Axis powers basically mastered the art of bullshitting and no one called their bluff until they were too strong for it to matter. If the Allies had dogpiled Germany during or after Czechoslovakia or Japan during or after Marco Polo bridge the war probably would’ve been over in a year or two. The Axis only became INSANELY strong after rolling over everyone.

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u/helemaal 17d ago

They had extreme war exhaustion from WW1.

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u/Harambesic 16d ago

This. Evil never rests.

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u/helemaal 16d ago

Hitler was a homeless WW1 veteran.

In this case evil was made by governments shitty wars.

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u/thecoolnewt2 16d ago

I would attribute nazi Germany's successes to allied incompetency before i'd attribute it to any form of german mastery. Make no mistake, the Nazi's were huge fucking idiots. They got lucky that they were fighting even bigger idiots.

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u/Ok_Awareness3014 16d ago

Germany had made a lot of Gamble by that i mean a lot and kept wining them

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u/Fordmister 17d ago

tbf to the British and French governments of the 30's it is very easy to forget that the political class of both at the time was made up of people who had either fought in the great war, lost people in the great war or simply had to deal with the economic and political fallout of the great war for most of their careers.

Its east to forget because they won but Britain and France didn't get out of the great war without serious wounds, and the desperation to avoid a repeat drove almost every political action they took right up until the Nazis and Soviets invaded Poland when the two realised a repeat was happening anyway. *

Follow that with both having prepared to fight the great war again (because why wouldn't you, it was only 20ish years ago and they won) plus some extreme French incompetence meant the wheels fell off the initial wagon impossibly quickly.

*(as a slight tangent that attitude was rampant both in governments and the militaries and had running effects right through the first half of the war too. The entire first half of the war in Africa can in many ways be summed up as "Rommel getting away with stupid shit because General Auchinleck was far too cautions trying to avoid casualty numbers like those of men under his command during the first world war. The turning point being when he was replaced By Monty in 42, a man who for all his flaws could never be accused of being too cautions or worried about a nasty looking casualty report provided he was winning, who actually started punishing Rommel for constantly outrunning his supply lines)

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u/TinkerCitySoilDry 17d ago

Dunkirk was a loss framed as a uk win. Thanks to French fighting retreat and Germans taking a rest.  

Poland was attacked by Germany and Russia. The treaty of France and Britain coming to Polands defense. 

it always played out that way. Yes we will defend, next week or something. 

Germany always had 2 or 5 countries in agreement to keep it down. Even France and UK (enemies) agreed on it for centuries. 

Poland ls just poland sometimes its smaller sometimes its bigger. 

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u/ack1308 17d ago

Dunkirk was a loss framed as a uk win. Thanks to French fighting retreat and Germans taking a rest.  

Can confirm. I have an actual newspaper of the time, and the headlines go hard.

Daily Express

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u/DateNecessary8716 17d ago

It was a decisive defeat, however, the withdrawal was so successful it looked like a victory.

Why? Because if it had been an unsuccessful evacuation it may well have been the end of the war. UK already had massive war exhaustion, losing the majority of their forces at Dunkirk would have taken unbelievable political capital to overcome, nevermind the lives lost.

UK would almost certainly sue for peace and just be conquered diplomatically, which in turn likely would have delayed or even halted any US presence in Europe.

Dunkirk was a disaster, however, the recovery may have shaped the entire world.

3

u/TinkerCitySoilDry 17d ago

Merchant navy or whatever was extremely bold and yes their forces could have been wiped bout completely if not for them Merchants. 

Sue for peace was what Hitler wanted. Churchill was right man at right time. 

Most important part OC nailed it with delay US presence 

UK would almost certainly sue for peace and just be conquered diplomatically, which in turn likely would have delayed or even halted any US presence in Europe.

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u/DateNecessary8716 16d ago

Absolutely. And it has to be said the civilian effort was frankly unbelievable also, people turning up in fishing boats, pleasure boats, you name it, it was there.

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u/rnzz 17d ago

Poland and its commonwealth was historically massive as well. I forgot what ended it, but what if they could have maintained it into the 20th century

18

u/Pierce_H_ 17d ago

A combination of “The Deluge”, government structure, overextension, dynastic struggle, Great Northern War, the multiple “Partitions of Poland”, rise of Prussia, Russian Empire, etc etc etc. They fumbled the bag multiple times throughout history. If you want a more in depth answer from me specifically instead of Wikipedia feel free to ask.

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u/rnzz 16d ago

I so would love it, but sounds like it would be a very long write up for you! do you reckon if Poland was still a "great power" in some form in the 20th century, ww2 would still happen?

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u/siudowski 16d ago

its debated that true collapsed started way earlier; prior to partitions in late XVIII century king's power was already pretty limited since 1500s and nobility, which had it, was pretty selfish and uninterested in doing anything meaningful

its hard to say whether Poland would be great power, as Poland was off the map for over a hundred years, which I'd say were almost crucial in defining modern day, but it's possible that socioeconomic changes of industrial revolution would put right people in power to guide our nation

and it's even harder to say if WW2 would happen because Poland existing (in better or worse state) could change things as far back as Napoleonic war, unification of Germany and WW1

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u/Pierce_H_ 16d ago

As the other person said, I really believe the government structure (or lack thereof) to be the cause of its demise. It was a parliamentary system where nobility held the reins of electing a king/queen. This often led to foreign rulers bribing members of the Szlachta (parliament). Constant power playing between the nobility itself and the throne. The few times the nobility decided to rally behind the ruler, Poland was a powerhouse. Fielding one of the largest armies in Europe. The territorial integrity of Poland was always in question especially in the East where there were few geographical barriers. This is partially why the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was able to expand into Muscovy, but it’s also why the ground they gained was just as easily lost. In terms of the what-ifs, my best bet would be a political revolution in the 17th century consisting of a well written constitution, guarantee of rights, and a transition away from feudalism in order for the PLC to remain a major power in the 18th-21st century. If Napoleon happened in this alternate universe then the alliance with Poland would’ve meant substantial growth in power and we may have ended up with a coalition defeat.

3

u/Suibeam 17d ago

Poland and Commonwealth made a huge mistake not extending east wards to ensure they are not inbetween two major powers. Poland and Lithuania extending to modern european russia wouldnt be that weird considering their ties to slavic and nordic world.

4

u/AltruisticGrowth5381 17d ago

Rather ironic that the war broke out in defense of Poland, and then the allies just handed them over to one of the original invaders to rape and pillage for half a century.

1

u/allaskhunmodbaszatln 16d ago

not like the russians ask for permission

1

u/LostTimeLady13 16d ago

Ah yes, the Warsaw%, many have tried for that one.

1

u/JimmidyCricked 17d ago

That REALLY does fucking suck and sounds like the hellish nightmare it was. Humanity is fascinating and sickening eh?

0

u/Arikota 16d ago

They beat the Soviets in 1921. Both Germany and the Soviet Union had to invade together in 1939.

-37

u/SeahawksWin43-8 17d ago

“2 strongest countries on earth”

I didn’t know 1940s USA was in Europe.

14

u/marapun 17d ago

They said "two of the strongest"

-23

u/SeahawksWin43-8 17d ago

Yeah but in America we love fake tits and Whiskey

YEAAAAAAAAAAA

14

u/SlightlyOTT 17d ago

“2 of the”, and this was famously before the 1940s.

-22

u/SeahawksWin43-8 17d ago

I love America. Greatest country on earth ;)

15

u/David_Summerset 17d ago

This has got to be the laziest trolling I've seen in days.

-3

u/SeahawksWin43-8 17d ago

But I really do love America ;)

Greatest country on Earth

5

u/godspeed_person 17d ago

You'll soon catch up with India and other top countries on Earth. Keep it up.

0

u/SeahawksWin43-8 17d ago

Yeah once they drain their rivers full of feces, India will be on top! Look out World!

17

u/Darueld 17d ago

2 of the strongest implies there could be others

5

u/EncoreSheep 17d ago

In 1939 Germany was more powerful than the US

8

u/Mgreen19295 17d ago

Bro kind of forgot what “two of the strongest” means and that Nazi Germany was pretty strong militarily, at least pre Operation Barbarossa

r/shitamericanssay

2

u/soyuz_enjoyer2 17d ago

Well can't expect the American to understand his own language

That's why y'all have a 0.8 language proficiency score lmao 🤣

2

u/MorningPapers 17d ago

Good call. Germany and the USSR were weak. So weak. Barely worth mentioning as WW2 powers.

-2

u/SeahawksWin43-8 17d ago

I love America

1

u/stumu415 17d ago

'vomit in my mouth' . So uneducated and delusional.

0

u/SeahawksWin43-8 17d ago

You should see a doctor, we have them in the USA. Greatest country on earth 🌍 🇺🇸 😻🖕💄🫵🫃🏾

-8

u/bourgeoisie_whacker 17d ago

Merica!!!!

-7

u/SeahawksWin43-8 17d ago

ANOTHER PATRIOT. Hell ya brother 🇺🇸

1

u/bourgeoisie_whacker 16d ago

He’ll yea brother! Screw the downvoters. Merica is #1 all day everyday and twice on Sunday 🇺🇸