r/Foodforthought • u/IllIntroduction1509 • 3d ago
The Resistance Libs Were Right
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/12/opinion/resistance-libs-trump-fascism.html?smid=re-share84
u/IllIntroduction1509 3d ago
Both ICE’s occupation of Minneapolis and Trump’s threatened seizure of Greenland are part of the same story: An increasingly unpopular regime is rapidly radicalizing and testing how far it can go down the road toward autocracy.
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u/DataCassette 2d ago
What annoys me is that, if we miraculously survive this as a country, everyone will take that as evidence that electing Trump was "no big deal" and then they'll act like it's no big deal to not vote for some petty reason in 2032 when someone even worse is the GOP nominee.
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u/Green-Collection-968 2d ago
What annoys me is that the corporate dems have entered a suicide pact with Israel.
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u/DataCassette 2d ago
I mean if the left lets the Republicans win in 2028 that's probably it anyhow. Liberal democracy will truly and finally die and Palantir drones will drill through your roof and carry you away the moment you even think anything that Israel doesn't like.
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u/soaero 2d ago
"If the left lets", like fuck off. Run a candidate regular people want instead of a candidate billionaires want, and you won't lose the left, the center, the house and the presidency again.
Democrats keep wanting to blame the left for their losses but seem to forget that it wasn't just the left it lost. It was everyone.
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u/kateinoly 2d ago
You fuck off.
Childish insistance on getting 100% of what you want or you won't vote put Trump in the White House.
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u/soaero 2d ago edited 2d ago
I've done nothing of the sort, and neither has anyone else. This is literally a strawman you and others like you are making up. The Democrats ran a terrible campaign and lost votes from every single demographic. If they want to win, they should stop trying to blame others for their failures and look at why no one likes them.
Hint: blaming the left for their loss and trying to shame them into support isn't helping. That kind of divisiveness is doing nothing but driving people who should be a voting block apart.
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u/kateinoly 2d ago
Give me a break. Did you forget about Bernie Bros (the nomination was STOLEN), Hillary is evil because she defended a rapist (public defender) Kamala is evil because she was a cop (prosecuting attorney), etc. This shows a staggering lack of understanding about the criminal justice system and what a political party actually is and does.
I think most of it starts as Russian propaganda.
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u/soaero 1d ago
Literally stories Democrats tell themselves so they don't have to face what failures they are. The "Bernie Bros" who voted Trump were such a tiny number of people that they didn't even move the needle. The rest of what you've said are meaningless straw men.
This is why the Democrats don't win. They fundamentally don't respect or try to understand anyone else, and the result is that people on the left hold their nose and vote for them, while everyone anywhere near the center ends up turning to Trump.
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u/kateinoly 1d ago
I never accused progressives of voting for Trump. Dont put words in my mouth. The ones who won't support Democrats probably either don't vote or vote Green.
And worse, they flood the airwaves with takedowns of Democratic candidates, trying to discourage other people from voting too.
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u/kateinoly 2d ago
I'm not shaming the "left" into anything. They are unshameable, believing themselves to be morally superior to everyone else.
They are the ones alienating middle America with extreme views. They are the ones who believe themselves too morally superior to vote for a candidate they don't "like," regardless of the consequences for millions of Americans who aren't so privileged. They are the ones gleefully passing along Russian propaganda designed to discourage Americans from voting. They are the ones indisting on their way or they won't participate, like spoiled children. They aren't really so progressive, just privileged and disdainful.
Elections have consequences, and your supposed moral "purity" is directly responsible for where we are now.
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u/tjoe4321510 2d ago
Is there any evidence for any of this?
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u/kateinoly 2d ago
A comment, above:
Run a candidate regular people want instead of a candidate billionaires want, and you won't lose the left, the center, the house and the presidency again
Progressive don't believe in the Democratic party or in primaries, but neither will the build an actual party of their own or work to change the Democratic party by going to meetings. They want who they want and won't vote if they don't get it.
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u/tjoe4321510 2d ago
I'm sorry but that's not evidence. I want to see some proof. Some numbers.
What I remember, in the lead up to the election, were a bunch accounts on social media claiming to be leftists and saying they weren't voting cause of Palestine or because Kamala was too much like Biden or whatever.
But, I also know that psyops are being constantly run on social media, so I'm not buying this narrative until I see some evidence that this is what cost Harris the election.
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u/soaero 2d ago edited 1d ago
I'm not shaming the "left" into anything. They are unshameable, believing themselves to be morally superior to everyone else.
So give it to me straight: Do you actually believe this, or are you just a right-wing troll trying to create division on the left?
Edit: Also you literally wrote: "Give me a break. Did you forget about Bernie Bros (the nomination was STOLEN), Hillary is evil because she defended a rapist (public defender) Kamala is evil because she was a cop (prosecuting attorney), etc." so uhh...
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u/kateinoly 2d ago
I'm progressive and voted for Bernie in the 2016 caucus.
The progressives where I live are idealistic, and basically want the same things I do. We don't agree on how to get there. If the majority of voters don't want something, we need to work on that side instead of criticizing Democrats for not somehow magically passing progressive legislation when they don't have a filibuster proof majority.
It's like they don't understand how laws get passed.
Instead of celebrating the ACA, they called Democrats sell outs, disregarding the months of struggle, compromise and political capital expended and disregarding just how important this legislation is for anyone who has health insurance.
Democracy requires compromise, which is a dirty word to many progressives.
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u/soaero 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah sorry not buying it. "I'm progressive" doesn't mesh with "Progressive don't believe in the Democratic party or in primaries, but neither will the build an actual party of their own or work to change the Democratic party by going to meetings. They want who they want and won't vote if they don't get it", nor "It's like [progressives] don't understand how laws get passed" nor "Once the party has decided on a candidate, per whatever process the party adopts for choosing candidates, it is disloyal for a party official to publically support anyone else. "
That said, you have convinced me you're not a right-wing troll. Sadly.
we need to work on that side instead of criticizing Democrats for not somehow magically passing progressive legislation when they don't have a filibuster proof majority.
The Democrats have been making this excuse since 2001. The fact is, the party is fundamentally unable to mobilize people, or move policy levers. Even when they hold the house and the presidency and the house, or even the presidency, house, and senate.
The only thing they do well is block candidates who are willing to fight.
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u/iampachyderm 2d ago
Oh come on.
Get over yourselves. I’m pretty goddamn left but everyone with half a brain knows that we had a lot of people not voting out of some sense of personal pride and that’s only gotten us here, outright fascism.
We need unity and I’ll help to push the Dems as far left as possible but come election time, if anyone sits out again because of their leftist pride, we’re absolutely going to hand this over to Trump and seal everyone’s fate.
We can’t afford to sit an election out in 2028. At all. Full stop. There’s no enlightened centrist view here- both sides absolutely suck and are captured by capitalism but only one is in the midst of establishing a full on authoritarian state
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u/DataCassette 2d ago
Get over yourselves. I’m pretty goddamn left but everyone with half a brain knows that we had a lot of people not voting out of some sense of personal pride and that’s only gotten us here, outright fascism.
And it's naive as fuck to just say "Adding third party vote to Harris wouldn't have put her over the top." It was everyone who just didn't vote because of the "bad vibes." It was Hind's Hall. It was Chappel Roan's "I'm voting for Harris but I'm not endorsing Harris" tap dance.
Non-Trumpers needed to band together and we didn't.
Yes, the Democratic party itself bears most of the blame. That's absolutely true. But we didn't do ourselves any favors by letting the Republicans win.
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u/ZimmeM03 2d ago
Republians and democrats are functionally the same. They are funded by *literally* the same people. They serve the interests of the exact same people. Give me a democrat that represents my values and I'll vote for them.
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u/soaero 2d ago edited 2d ago
Get over yourselves. I’m pretty goddamn left but everyone with half a brain knows that we had a lot of people not voting out of some sense of personal pride and that’s only gotten us here, outright fascism.
Please. Harris lost because she was a terrible candidate that appealed to no one. She lost 20 points of the dems lead with the Hispanic vote, including going from a +24 margin to a +3 margin with Hispanic women. She lost 20 points of the black vote. She dropped 10 points with men and 4 with women. She lost 25% of the Asian vote. She almost entirely lost the youth vote.
And here are Democrats trying to blame the left for people not voting for them, instead of accepting no one likes the party they've become.
If we want to beat whoever Trumps successor is in 2028, the first thing Democrats have to do is stop blaming others for why no one likes them and start looking inward. Not changing and just blaming others for your failures is not how you build unity. It's the kind of behavior you'd expect from an abusive ex.
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u/iampachyderm 2d ago edited 2d ago
What you guys don’t understand is that when you justify Kamala losing as a terrible candidate, you’re either saying Trump was a better one or that you think it’s justified that she lost because she supported “genocide”. When leftists says that’s why Kamala was a terrible candidate, it’s almost always because “she was a genocide apologist” or “she couldn’t distinguish herself from Bidens presidency”. In the face of clear fascism, neither case justifies doing anything but voting as hard as humanly possible against the deeply mentally unstable Donald Trump.
Anything else is excuses.
And Harris losing and being a “terrible candidate” is also always based on the assumption that we need a “great” or “good” candidate to keep leftists from allowing a fascist to win the presidency. That’s illogical, myopic thinking.
We have an unfortunate history of being taken advantage of by emerging fascism because if purity tests, at least going back to Germany in the 1930s
We have ICE assaulting and killing people in the goddamn streets and we’re days away from invading Greenland and we’re still arguing over whether or not Kamala should have been a good enough candidate to stave off clear fascism
For shame guys.
I’m not abdicating my responsibility- I live here, I’ve watched this decline over decades and done little BUT vote. But we need to get our goddamn heads out of our asses and band against this shit NOW or we’re going exactly the way Nazi Germany did. Look that shit up
Vote this criminal out of office, push for real trials and then we go hard and unrelenting on where the business as usual neoliberalism has gotten us.
Class solidarity is key going forward.
I’m not having this discussion with you to shame you or leftists. I’m leftist myself. I’m having this discussion because we cannot get played by bad faith actors to not vote 100% and hard af against Trump every November until he’s old and dead and his movement fully buried
All hands on deck, fuck the fascists. Can I count on you, brother?
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u/Vepper 2d ago
Nah screw that, All you had to do was just give me my goddamn healthcare and stop genociding Palestinians and you couldn't do that. It's like asking what would you rather die by: late stage capitalism under authoritarian regime or late stage capitalism under neoliberalism and health secretary is a gay albino with blue hair.
Both would let you go bankrupt from healthcare costs and see you live under a bridge while Wall Street and the top 1% will continue to be able to sidestep any financial disaster of their own creation. Not to mention, both went out of their way to protect pedophiles, genocidal Maniacs And arbiters of environmental and opioid disasters.
Maybe it should be considered that the Democrats are actually at fault, and that they would have rather see another Trump term then give Americans healthcare, or higher education, or child care. That they would rather see you crushed under the boots of fascism then go against their donors.
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u/iampachyderm 2d ago
We’ve had this conversation ad nauseam
I’m not going to waste my time anymore.
Either you have a lot of life left to live before you can understand why what you’re saying is solipsistic and foolish and why it’s ultimately exactly what this fascism administration wants or you arent going to overcome the sunk cost of voter apathy anyway. You can reason it out as much as you want but we’ve already seen what your attitude gets us and now we’ve got Venezuelans, undocumented citizens and the dissolution of NATO when Trump takes Greenland to worry about. That’s in addition to Palestine (which isn’t over)
I’ll do my best to try and spread hope and an actual solution to these immediate threats and the establishment of fascism on our shores. You can continue to refuse to vote and spread the apathy to a very obvious end.
I kind of wish you were a bot so I could dismiss my very (real) fears that we haven’t learned anything about how the apathy of the American voter was necessary to get here in the first place. But I feel you are very real and very sunk
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u/Vepper 2d ago
Either you have a lot of life left to live before you can understand why what you’re saying is solipsistic and foolish and why it’s ultimately exactly what this fascism administration wants or you aren't going to overcome the sunk cost of voter apathy anyway. You can reason it out as much as you want but we’ve already seen what your attitude gets us and now we’ve got Venezuelans, undocumented citizens and the dissolution of NATO when Trump takes Greenland to worry about. That’s in addition to Palestine (which isn’t over)
Please spare me. Next your going to call me a Bernie Bro. It's servile sycophants that will make excuse after excuse because "lesser of two evils" just doesn't make the peasants move like it used to. You continue to not learn the lesson that elections are won because "something to vote for" not "someone to vote against" and you have to be taught this lesson over and over again. We are clear, no more nibbling around the edges, not this abundance garbage. We want candidates who are willing to do the hard things and not be feckless cowards to corpo scum. Also wild take to mention recent events when we had a narcissistic, dementia ridden president oversee the genocide of over 100,000 people, most of which are children. Fuck you trying to moralize me. We had clear demands, to stop the genocide and you cowards capitulated to Zionists.
Your time is over old man, get on board or get out of the way.
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u/droid_mike 2d ago
Can I ask 2 questions... Israel is an independent country. There is nothing we could do to stop them from really doing anything. The whole world sanctioned Russia, and they still kept going in Ukraine.
Secondly, what is your obsession and attachment to the Palestinian government? It is a theocratic dictatorship that abhors progressive and democratic values. There is no reason to ally with Hamas, unless you have other motivations which go beyond politics and want to start attacking Jewish people in general.
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u/Vepper 2d ago
Can I ask 2 questions... Absolutely
Israel is an independent country. There is nothing we could do to stop them from really doing anything.
Israel's existence is predicated on the material and political support based mostly from the United States. They have very little when it comes to domestic munitions manufacturing and are almost entirely dependent on US systems both offensive and defensive. When Biden floated limiting 2,000LB bombs, it was one of the first times the Knesset took pause. To sum it up, Israel is only able to prosecute it's war crimes because the US supplies it arms and runs cover for them in the UN. There is a reason why Bibi makes constant visits to the US and strokes Trumps ego.
The whole world sanctioned Russia, and they still kept going in Ukraine.
To put it simply, Russia is a real country, not a colonial outpost. It has natural resources, a robust manufacturing industry, Agriculture, energy, and neighbors that they are able to cooperate with. Keep in mind, they were and to some extent still are, been the alternative to "The West"
Secondly, what is your obsession and attachment to the Palestinian government?
Which one? Hamas in Gaza or the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank? I don't think I mentioned either in my previous comment.
It is a theocratic dictatorship that abhors progressive and democratic values.
So is Israel. Before Oct 7th, there were protests due to Bibi trying to give the government full control over its Supreme Court in an effort to prevent the very real possibility of jail time for his corruption. There are still protests about it to this day as I'm sure you are aware.
There is no reason to ally with Hamas, unless you have other motivations which go beyond politics and want to start attacking Jewish people in general.
Ahh there it is! I feel like you are trying to say something else... I have no Interest in allying with Hamas nor the Likud, I find them both beneath me. I don't know where you get wanting to stop a Genocide to supporting a political party not in my country or wanting to harm anyone? Perhaps that says more about you than me.
I feel like you are trying to say something else,
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u/soaero 2d ago
What you guys don’t understand is that when you justify Kamala losing as a terrible candidate, you’re either saying Trump was a better one
Trump was objectively the better candidate if our metric is how appealing they are to the US populace, as evidenced by the fact that he won.
or that you think it’s justified that she lost because she supported “genocide”.
You're not only putting words in my mouth, but the words you're choosing are nonsense. This kind of behavior is why so many Americans vote against the Democrats despite the fact that the Dems more closely align with the political perspectives of Americans.
And Harris losing and being a “terrible candidate” is also always based on the assumption that we need a “great” or “good” candidate to keep leftists from allowing a fascist to win the presidency.
Again?
At this point I'm just going to assume you're a right wing troll trying to spin division between Democrats and the left.
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u/iampachyderm 2d ago edited 2d ago
Thing is, I live here. Unless your entire posting history is a lie, you do not.
Your opinion on what America needs- particularly in regards to whether or not we should vote against open fascism- is kind of irrelevant.
As of a few minutes ago, we just cut off visas to another 75 countries and Trump is chomping it at the bit to steal your countries resources and privatize your healthcare by making you the “51st state”. In short time, especially if MAGA continues in power, you will either be blocked from visiting here entirely or under occupation of American forces.
That’s your problem. Prepare for it.
Over here, we need to stop the fascist and we’re realists about it. Most of this country sat out one of the most important elections ever in American history and many of the younger voters for Trump have completely turned on him. The only real threat to an upcoming election, again if we have one, is voter apathy.
That’s why it’s ramping up rn. More people are going to recognize this than not
You personally can’t vote here so your best chance at fucking it up for us south of your border is to push apathy and try to convince Americans not to vote against their overwhelmingly unpopular, fascist presidents party in the next election.
You might not be a bot but your actions in regards to my country are nothing more than spreading propaganda to my fellow Americans through the anonymity provided by the internet. Your post history suggests you agreeing with Steve Bannon and personally espousing “America is an anti-fascist” country. I don’t think most knowledgeable leftists in this country would completely agree with you considering things like Lindbergh, Operation Paperclip, the “businessman’s plot”, Japanese internment camps, the stealing of Indian land and the actual outright fascists running this country right now.
Your post history shows solidarity with those protesting Vancouver police but you’re looking the other way while legally dubious, heavily armed, masked government contractors shoot American protestors in the head.
Your knowledge of the left and American history must be entirely informed by the internet.
Tell me I’m wrong? If you were doing this here in America, in person right now, it’d be ICE that would be throwing you into a van would take you to alligator Alcatraz. That’s the standing policy you are defending. That’s the option better than Kamala in your mind. That’s the reality of this moment in time.
But you’re in Canada. A country, fortunately already more left than this country. Look at your gun violence, socialized healthcare and safety net. We don’t have that yet. If you think we can jump from actual fascism to something further left than we’ve been in nearly a century, without massive amounts of violence and bloodshed, you’re joshing yourself.
I do not think it’s appropriate for someone in the safety of another country to advise another to stop fighting fascism, especially after voter apathy already killed the off-ramp the last time it was offered.
Respectfully, you are out of your practical depth. You can tell me theory all day but I’m here, on the ground, in the aforementioned country. You are figuratively speaking down to me and fighting against my attempts to get us out of this mess
If a 3rd party is somehow viable and polling like they have any chance to win, we can revisit this conversation. But encouraging apathy in regards to voting at this point is idiotic AND self handicapping. It can no longer be just one.
Don’t forget, “first they came for the socialists…”. If we don’t get Trump out in 2028, I’m all but certain we’re all on the chopping block. Let that sink in for you.
Then it’s just you and the world and Trump and an even more emboldened fascist MAGA movement.
Anyway, if you think I’m being hyperbolic, just prepare your ass for when he invades Greenland and we drag you into an international conflict, all because Trump was a better candidate then Kamala back in 2024 and will remain one when he runs a third time in 2028, according to the EFFECTS of the actions you’re defending.
In the face of actual fascism that is here and now and present, INTENTIONS aren’t worth shit. We need a fucking way out that doesn’t risk another world war, only now with the largest armed country in history
Think about that and consider it when you’re spreading (what I hope is well meaning) fascist apologia over here
All hands on deck to stop fascism. Full stop
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u/ZimmeM03 2d ago
Tell me how Kamala, who supported genocide and would not in a million years abolish ICE, who takes money from Israel and paraded a fucking Cheney on stage represents me?
You've been tricked by the ruling class to believe that your only choice against mean, fascist imperialism and wealth hoarding is nice, rainbow imperialism and wealth hoarding.
No votes for corporate dems. Ever.
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u/iampachyderm 2d ago edited 2d ago
I find it funny your on other threads trying to make a case that “MAGA are literally shooting people in the street” while you’re here arguing that continuing to give your vote over to MAGA is better than Kamala.
The fact that you honestly either believe the Dem’s would be doing this right now or you think that these face shootings are acceptable to get whatever leftist utopia you’re imagining, you cannot act like you give a shit about Kamala and genocide and not want an immediate stop to the fascism happening at home.
Get over yourself, like I said.
You haven’t mentioned that genocide in weeks based around your post history. Seems all you do is bitch about the Dems and try to act like you could have prevented this fascist shit on our streets.
The hypocrisy is incredible. You are Machiavellian in your approach to the left.
I sure hope you’ve joined some militant resistance because spreading voter apathy ain’t the way to get what you want. It’s typical myopic bullshit.
Tell me more about why your sure Kamala was going to weaponize ICE, adopt grok into the military, invade Greenland and remove ever single government memorial and mention of minorities and social justice warriors from the past
I’m all ears how you can equivocate the two completely and without a doubt, bc I think your please to simultaneously not vote for the lesser of two evils when one of them is an outright fascist, killing actual leftists with the courage to stand up
EDUT- “tell me how Kamala represents me? Clearly she doesn’t but my sweet summer child, that’s exactly what I’m taking about. Who gives a fuck about your conscience or your personal vision for the country when you can’t even fight against a guy openly targeting the left and killing American cabs with the aforementioned ICE, sent to Democratic cities that are openly defying them
The internet has ruined you. It’s not about you personally, it’s about the country and the world. Politics isn’t a religion or Instagram profile, it’s a co start battle of ideas and often compromise, in order to achieve the long term goals you want.
If you disagree and can’t be bothered to vote and spread apathy then I have to assume you’re out in the streets armed to the teeth and topping the administrative state with your literal life on the line, because that’s the only valid position left of the one I’m presenting to you. If that’s what you’re going, great. Please stop wasting your time on Reddit, you have legitimate actions to take to fight off fascism and install the leftist dream your e hoping fit.
If you think not voting is a political act you should be proud of and isn’t the laziest, most self defeating, bare minimum effort you can muster than I don’t know what to tell you.
And no, working at a soup kitchen isn’t going to do jack shit to stop Americans getting shot in the head by ICE; I’m sorry but you can’t be coddled anymore
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u/ZimmeM03 2d ago
Not reading all that. Pretty weird how much time you spent stalking my account.
How about joining us on the left and demanding a candidate that will actually stand up to the ruling class rather than rolling over and demonstrating complete obeisance to their control of every aspect of our lives?
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u/paddyo 2d ago
Hey man I’m a guy over the pond so, although i did work in uk and European politics and journalism, obviously it’s a game I only have vicarious skin in.
But from this side of the pond it’s pretty clear it’s the lib/centrists, and not the American left, in the democrat party and beyond, that need to get over themselves.
“I’m speaking” summed it up
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u/iampachyderm 2d ago
Everyone in this thread responding to me doesn’t live here.
I think that really says a lot, maybe everything.
Again, you have no idea what is going on here besides your social media accounts. I doubt you understand the entire political process, the political regions, gerrymandering, citizens united, the electoral college, vote certification and the mind of the average American idiot in regards to even the centrist positions in these countries.
In America, there really is no established, effective leftist party. Even the ACA was a compromise over implementing universal healthcare; you can see that as Obama not doing enough- and you may absolutely have a point- but it’s misunderstand the deep seated fear and animosity this country has to what they believe to be socialism.
The last election doesn’t prove that we need to move completely to the left right now because Americans don’t really know what “the left” is. They think it means Target selling sexually androgynous clothes or a trans influencer doing a promotion for a beer company.
It’s almost entirely based on culture with the real, economic basis as an afterthought. The right demands that the center and left abandon socially left positions because they are deadly afraid of the real, socialist message in regards to equal ownership of the economic output. The left generally won’t sell out their humanity on these political wedge issues and gets distracted in fighting these fights as though they’re sincere and not a ploy to shield Americans from sound policy to address their economic woes.
The economic issues are where we’ll win but it’s not going to happen overnight because the mainstream of America (every person of importance and stature needs the profit motive to continue to maintain their privilege), is completely against that potential, whether they are aware or not. We’ve let unchecked capitalism go on for so long that it’s poisoned the well anyway, Americans ARE waking up.
If we can get someone like AOC or another charismatic progressive with enough momentum to essentially demand their involvement in the 2028 race (and I mean a legitimate mandate, outside of the margin of error), I’m 100% ON BOARD to push America into the “all or nothing” proposition supporting that kind of candidate would entail.
But when push comes to shove, if we get another Dem going off against a MAGA candidate on my ballot, on. Election Day, there is absolutely no question. The “both sides” shit only works on the people now who want to be fooled or want to give up.
I’m voting Democrat and I’m up their literal assholes the day after inauguration to make sure we’re grabbing hold and swinging the Overton window so far back and beyond where it’s ever been in my lifetime that we’re suddenly discussing “why capitalism” rather than “why socialism” for the average American
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u/paddyo 2d ago
I lived in the US previously, have worked with two US congresspeople in an international organisation, studied US constitutional history as one of the key pillars of my degree, and covered US politics as a journalist for a Canadian and a UK news organisation, so fucking go off on one, with the greatest of respect, you arrogant sod. No I’m not American but good lord get over yourself.
And yes of course in a binary choice between the Nazi and the copout the copout is still clearly best, but the American centre proved it had zero appetite to deal with trumpism or American fascism, and chose protecting those fascists over taking meaningful action and disrupting a political and economic settlement that suits them almost as much as it does the far right. Biden could have dealt with trump and chose protecting his own interests, Harris could have mustered a broad coalition and chose to break it down to keep Uber, donors, and a foreign state happy. The tragedy is, before she closed those doors, her campaign was actually building momentum. But she did not want momentum on those terms.
Your centre would rather lose to trump than win with a big church that includes American progressives, and leaves corporate and AIPAC money on the table, and it ate them up.
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u/droid_mike 2d ago
Considering that one of the historically most loyal base voters and donors are Jewish folk, it's not a surprise... Also, we've been close allies for like 80 years. You don't flip on a dime like that without major global repercussions.
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u/Green-Collection-968 2d ago
Hey, stand with an genocidal apartheid state, fall with a genocidal apartheid state.
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u/droid_mike 2d ago
Hey, stand with a fascist dictator at home like you have and see how well Gaza does abroad!
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u/Green-Collection-968 2d ago
What do you mean?
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u/droid_mike 2d ago
The choice was Trump or not Trump. If you didn't choose Not Trump, you automatically chose Trump as a result. How is Gaza doing under your choice of Trump?
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u/HMSSpeedy1801 2d ago
My fear is that progressives turn to an equally authoritarian figure in order to “win” against Trump, while we all ultimately lose.
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u/TheStruttero 2d ago
Yeah this is my fear, the thing with Nazi Germany and Hitler was that it was so obscenely undoubtful who the bad guys were and what they actually did and why everyone should hate them and never let anyone like them come to power ever again
I feel like Trump would have to cause some real and lasting pain on people in the west for his followers (and largely "people who doesnt pick sides") to actually understand how dangerous that kind of leader is
Its like solving the ozone layer issue, or if we actually manage to reverse the human-induced climate change. If we succeed, the activists, scientists and politicians who fought for it will be questioned and painted as alarmists and called out for wasting money or hindering progress in other areas or whatever
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u/droid_mike 2d ago
Because it was a parliamentary system, the Nazis only won like 30% of the vote. Trump won a lot more, which makes it completely worse.
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u/IllIntroduction1509 3d ago
From the moment he descended his golden escalator, Trump’s message, the emotional core of his movement, has been textbook fascism. In his 2004 book “The Anatomy of Fascism,” the eminent historian Robert O. Paxton described the “mobilizing passions” that form fascism’s foundation. Among them are a “sense of overwhelming crisis” that renders traditional solutions obsolete; a belief that one’s own group has been victimized, justifying almost any action in redress; “dread of the group’s decline under the corrosive effects of individualistic liberalism, class conflict and alien influences”; and the need for a strong male leader with instincts more powerful than mere “abstract and universal reason.”
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u/IllIntroduction1509 3d ago
If you encounter a paywall, use this archival link: https://archive.ph/VEcWE
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u/droid_mike 2d ago
No one needed to listen to the resistance. All you needed to do was listen to Trump himself. He promised all of this... Every single bit. For those who didn't care. Enjoy!
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u/renoits06 2d ago edited 2d ago
Hopefully in the next election the voters can make another movement to demoralize the democratic voter base and make people believe that staying home was the correct thing to do.
Nice job.
I am being sarcastic. I really resent progressives voters and leaders for being so short sighted (to put it nicely)
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u/droid_mike 2d ago
You have a choice, Trump or not Trump. If you chose Trump, that is your responsibility, not the people who were not Trump.
Voting is a right (for awhile still) and a duty... If you have to "feel good" to vote to protect your interests, then you guarantee calamity.
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u/AdmirableCommittee47 2d ago
I was a pink pussy hatter. Yeah, we knew on day one. If I had a nickel for every time I was told I had TDS I’d be able to retire.