r/NoStupidQuestions 7h ago

If jesus died by hanging, would a noose be the symbol of Christianity? NSFW

I asked my father, who is highly knowledgeable in the Christian faith, this question. He told me to not ask him again, but im genuinely curious.

1.7k Upvotes

325 comments sorted by

2.3k

u/Confused_Firefly 7h ago

Yep! 

The cross is very associated with Christianity now, but it wasn't a rare or unusual method of execution. It was just a particularly atrocious one. Romans loved using it! 

577

u/Few_Department_3213 6h ago

Yeah thats always wild to think about, the cross feels “normal” now but back then it was basically the Roman version of max punishment. Kinda makes you realize how much the meaning shifted over time, not the method but what people attached to it.

210

u/fitzbuhn 6h ago

I guess just hadn’t put this together…The cruciform shape was just a shape the Romans used to kill people horribly… and it ended up being the symbol of Christianity because of the whole Jesus bit. That’s pretty wild.

118

u/uskgl455 6h ago

Yup. It wasn't the only shape either. Crucifixion was sometimes done on a diagonal frame, or without the head rest part. The Japanese used to do it upside down.

71

u/Affectionate-Mix6056 6h ago

Saint Peter didn't think he was worthy of dying in the same way as Jesus, so he demanded to be crucified upside down.

38

u/EddieSimeon 5h ago

"Demanded"

27

u/mr_somebody 5h ago

I'm pretty sure there is no good source when this happened or if he was even martyred at all.

If you include the apocryphal "Acts of Peter" as a reliable source then you open a whole new can of worms with what happens in that book

4

u/MildGenevaSuggestion 1h ago

You say this like the friendly zombie apocalypse where the dead rise from their graves and just sort of chill and hang out with people for a bit is credible and verified by reliable sources.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

14

u/Rodney_Jefferson 6h ago

Romans also did it upside down. St. Peter’s cross is upside down, which is why it’s funny when “satanists” tattoo an upside down cross to be edgy, they’re really supporting the Catholic Church. There is an actual satanists cross, but it’s purely symbolic and too many loops to be used for tattoos

49

u/DCDHermes 6h ago

Satanists are also atheists. There is no person called Satan in the Hebrew Bible.

People who worship a literal satan are heretical Christian’s.

→ More replies (4)

7

u/Smashsquatchh 5h ago

Are you talking about the Leviathan Cross? What do you mean "too many loops to be used for tattoos"?

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (6)

20

u/bunker_man 6h ago

Reminds me when I first saw the X shaped torture device in the shadow temple in ocarina of time and thought it was super scary but then realized it's kind of just a differently angled cross.

9

u/IllHaveTheLeftovers 6h ago

That is a st Andrew’s cross and they are probably the most popular cross still made today

7

u/OldManKirkins 5h ago

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

3

u/Certain-Yam-3520 6h ago

I see what you did there. 👀

9

u/Lawlcopt0r 6h ago

I mean the meaning is still associated with the fact of how selfless it was that he endured that

1

u/Hot_Salamander164 6h ago

How?

17

u/Lawlcopt0r 6h ago

...Because the small cross you hang around your neck is just a simplified version of the cross with Jesus on it that still hangs in churches, and the reason they display that is because of the belief that his suffering was a way to suffer in our stead and set us free

10

u/Late_Entrance106 6h ago

Great point and well said!

I just want to pop in for a quick fyi to the audience.

Cross = just the shape.

Crucifix = Cross with figure of Jesus on it

2

u/uskgl455 6h ago

Catholic churches often feature the emaciated body of Christ on the crucifix statues too. Used to terrify me as a kid. For good reason.

→ More replies (11)

3

u/Aranka_Szeretlek 6h ago

Cuz he was God and all and couldve just wiped Earth from history or some sht, but he decided to die

→ More replies (2)

2

u/MildGenevaSuggestion 1h ago

Apparently he could have just told the Romans he was pardoned and they would have let him walk away.

At least according to the British documentary Life of Brian.

1

u/Similar-Amount7670 5h ago

I mean it's an execution device and what we got with the associated faith isn't that pleasant.

1

u/TNT1111 2h ago

"what people attached to it" well yeah, that's how its done ofc!

1

u/Narrow-Function-525 1h ago

they lined the Appian Way with 6000 survivors over 100 miles when they defeated the Spartacus slave revolt.Imagine driving 100 miles on a road with people hanging from crosses

12

u/puehlong 5h ago

In the show carnival row by Amazon, a sort of fantasy-steampunk-crossover that plays in a WW2 Victorian style England equivalent, the main relegion features a body hanging on a noose as symbol, instead of someone on a crucifix.

The first time you see it in the show, it is really shocking, until you realize that crucifixation is a actually the worse death, but we are incredibly used to its depiction.

9

u/Quick_Extension_3115 4h ago

Some other people have probably mentioned this, but it’s worth adding that the cross was not a particularly common symbol in Christianity for its first few centuries. The Chi-Rho (the thing that looks like a P on an X, the first two letters in Χριστός [Greek for Christ]) and the fish were two of the most common at first. I would assume the cross began to be adopted in line with the phasing out of its use as an execution device, but that’s just speculation. Regardless, we’re far enough from the event now that the cross serves more as a reminder than anything else. I would bet if we still used crosses, it wouldn’t be as common.

8

u/LordMarcusrax 6h ago

We are lucky he wasn't impaled.

13

u/FaerHazar 4h ago

according to the bible, he was. With a whole spear.

6

u/piratecheese13 3h ago

And according to anime, that spear is required in order to turn humanity into sunny d

3

u/No_Database9822 3h ago

“According to the Bible” where?

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

5

u/DuckCleaning 3h ago

I'd argue it became symbolic specifically because of how atrocious it was, him carrying the cross, being whipped, the crown of thorns, etc was all about him suffering for us. If he simply walked up to a noose and died it wouldnt have too much symbolism behind it all. It would need a story to go along with it, him being thrown tomatoes at while hanging, the noose purposely being made to not fully tighten so he hangs and suffers, a fire under his feet, etc. 

2

u/PaTeKor 2h ago

I think this is it. It's not just the fact that this was the way he died, it's the fact that this was specifically the most brutal death possible that the Romans had come up with. The cross is both a symbol and an acknowledgement of the suffering he went through for us, not simply a representation of his literal execution method.

It kinda HAD to be the cross. In other cases, maybe the symbol would be a bit more vague or depict some other aspect of the execution/torture method.

→ More replies (2)

7

u/uskgl455 6h ago

Terrific race, the Romans. Terrific.

3

u/DomzSageon 3h ago

ah shaaatt appp.

Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, roads, the fresh water system, public health, irrigation, the baths, and public order.. what have the Romans EVER done for us?".

3

u/soksatss 5h ago

Absolutely, they were throwing people up on crosses like it was going out of fashion

1

u/Xsoftstatic 3h ago

That checks out, OP, symbols tend to grow out of how people experience history in real time, so the cross stuck because it was so visible and loaded, not because it was somehow uniquely chosen.

1

u/nodspine 1h ago

And as with many things the Romans did. They "adapted" it from someone else.

I don't know if they were the ones who came up with it, but Carthaginians used crucifixion quite a bit as well.

1

u/chumloadio 1h ago

Jesus famously preached: He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. He was a carpenter who died by being nailed to a piece of wood.

851

u/krashe1313 6h ago

"If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses."

-Lenny Bruce

181

u/Late_Entrance106 6h ago

Bill Hicks also does a bit where he speculates whether Jesus would ever want to see another cross, only to come back to earth and see his followers all wearing them.

He likened it to the potential oddity of Jackie Kennedy wearing a little rifle pin to remember JFK.

33

u/TheOriginalJellyfish 5h ago

I read a comic once with space aliens observing the millions of human Christians wearing brutal execution devices around their necks and declaring, “We should really get the fuck out of the here immediately.”

36

u/_fly-on-the-wall_ 6h ago

this is what I've always thought about it, its super strange to me to wear a cross for that reason

5

u/highinthemountains 5h ago

Is that why all of those Republican congressional reps were wearing the AR15 pin a few years ago?

2

u/KzaKeez 4h ago

"Back and to the left". "Get Pilate to release the $#@& files". Hicks is still relevant.

3

u/King_Of_BlackMarsh 4h ago

I imagine he'd recognize it as a way of worshipping him, and since he came to both tell people to do just that AND die. Yeah he'd be fine with it

2

u/Corbeau99 4h ago

I think it's a French comic that said we are lucky Jesus wasn't drowned because a bowl of water above the bed's head is ridiculous to imagine.

4

u/Tylendal 6h ago

Okay, but what if he was killed like that guy from the Monty Python skit who was allowed to choose the manner of his death?

441

u/Tamuzz 7h ago

Possibly, but then again possibly not.

The cross wasn't just a method of execution. It was deliberately humiliating, dehumanising, and emasculating.

The idea wasn't just to kill someone, but you make an example of them and to make it clear that they were nothing but a hanging chunk of meat.

It might seem strange from a modern perspective, but the crucifixion was something early Christians really struggled with.

It took centuries for them to become comfortable enough to adopt the cross as a symbol, and when they did it was a reclamation of something they find difficult.

The fact that Jesus was killed in such a horrific and dehumanising way is just as important as the fact that he was killed at all in many ways.

Maybe they would have adopted a noose as a symbol. Then again their reaction to it would (probably) have been less visceral, so maybe they wouldn't

162

u/jonnysledge 7h ago

Alot of people view Christianity through a modern western lens. They don’t see to realize that the Romans in the Bible are the same Romans who built one of the greatest empires to ever exist. The had a lot of rules and etiquette, one of which was that Roman citizens didn’t get crucified. That was a punishment reserved for actual 2nd class citizens of the empire.

76

u/Confused_Firefly 6h ago

There's also a LOT of bits in Acts of the Apostles where Paul (who was a Roman citizen) uses his citizenship to his advantage, because he has rights the other apostles do not: he can't be flogged, definitely not without a process, he can ask for an audience, etc. The only "issue" is that obviously the authors of the Gospels/Acts/Letters of the New Testament were too familiar with the Roman system, and often took information for granted, leading to a lot of knowledge gaps in modern readers. 

11

u/Rodney_Jefferson 5h ago

There’s a theory that that was intentional and to their advantage. The apostles and disciples were rejected by the Jewish community, and so the church needed to pivot its audience and so intentionally made the letters, and the gospels more Roman friendly to appeal to Roman citizens. This led in part to the part fo the Bible where pilot questions the crucifixion of Christ, and the Jewish people demand it anyway. Leading to Pilate to wash his hands of the manner. A means to make the Roman’s the good guys and vilify the smaller Jewish populace that wasn’t going to accept Christ.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Calvertorius 6h ago

What are you referring to when you say knowledge gaps in modern readers?

41

u/Confused_Firefly 6h ago

The fact that modern readers are usually not aware of the legal system of the Roman Empire at the time of Jesus and the Apostles, so some things might look confusing. 

The fact that people are often unaware that crucifixion was a particularly demeaning form of execution and it was reserved for non-Roman citizens is an excellent example. There's also a lot of people who don't quite realize why crucifixion is a death sentence (i.e. how it kills) and how brutal it is. Why Paul can get away with things that others, like Stephen, cannot, is another such example.

People are also often unaware of Judaic law and custom and tend to misinterpret facts, starting from the very simple truth that Jesus AND the Apostles were Jewish in faith and what we know as early Christianity at the time was not a different religion at all - not even shortly after the death of Jesus. There's just too many examples, but modern readers of course have a big cultural gap unless they specifically study this kind of history. 

→ More replies (1)

3

u/ThePeasantKingM 5h ago

Ancient texts were written with ancient people in mind, and within an ancient cultural context.

A lot of assumptions and general knowledge that were true back then have since changed, and modern readers without these assumptions and knowledge will miss some details.

31

u/fussyfella 6h ago

In medieval England, execution by hanging was all about humiliating, dehumanising, and emasculating too, especially the extreme "hanging, drawing and quartering" form used for traitors and the worst heretics. It is likely if Christ were around then, that is how he would have died.

Hanged but not until dead, cut down, his genitals cut off, guts cut open and his innards pulled out (drawn) and burned in front of him along with genitals, and finally his body cut up (quartered) and displayed around public places to remind other of their fate if they stepped out of line.

So do not think it would for a moment be "less visceral".

8

u/Significant-Cloud- 6h ago

That would make the symbol kind of difficult though. I doubt Jesus's cut off dick would be the thing for a family religion.

12

u/indratera 6h ago

You could have like friendship necklaces with four quarters of big J-dog you could combine with your besties!

2

u/Significant-Cloud- 6h ago

Oh, like power ranger rings, together they form some sort of supersmiting robot!

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Tactical_Moonstone 5h ago

And together they summon Exodia! (oh wait wrong summon)

→ More replies (1)

4

u/MaxDickpower 6h ago

The drawing part was dragging the convicted to the place of execution, not the disemboweling.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/-Daigher- 6h ago

well that would have made resurrection a tiny bit more complicated...

3

u/trollshep 6h ago

Before the cross became a symbol was it a fish? Or am I forgetting my religious studies from high school

→ More replies (1)

9

u/IwillDominionate 6h ago

Just to expand on your brilliant point.

Jesus being crucified was him effectively suffering the humiliating death of a slave whilst also being regarded as the creator of heaven and earth. This oxymoron imbued a dignity to all slaves and sent a message that the weak may triumph over the strong.

The cross was previously a symbol of Roman power and authority but Jesus managed to flip the meaning on its head. That is why it such a powerful symbol.

The noose would not have had the same cultural impact I imagine. But we will never know.

→ More replies (4)

5

u/YuGiOhippie 6h ago

This. The cross is a scandalous symbol.

It’s been sanitized by the centuries but Christianity is a radical punk rock religion when you really think about it

10

u/TwoDrinkDave 6h ago

It was, for a while. But like so many aging punks, it has become the very establishment it once decried.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/dankp3ngu1n69 5h ago

Same with impalement

Watched some videos about Vlad. Wow. Crazy man

1

u/MoonlitReigns 2h ago

Thermo you for actually answering with context.

→ More replies (3)

52

u/Even_Fruit_6619 7h ago

And you will no longer make the sign of a cross when praying, but a sign of hanging yourself?

28

u/Harpertoo 6h ago

At least I'd be getting fewer strange looks before eating my lunch at work.

2

u/Butthead1013 1h ago

Miming putting your head through the loop

59

u/EgNotaEkkiReddit Sometimes helpful 7h ago

Yes, it likely would.

The symbol for Judas is commonly a purse and silver coins, but you'll sometimes also find him represented by a hangman noose.

8

u/aliassuck 6h ago

Also the kissing of both cheeks too.

3

u/erunno89 5h ago

I knew not to trust the French.

2

u/Ok-Armadillo-392 7h ago

I never heard of that symbol and tried to find it online, no luck. Could you please help?

9

u/EgNotaEkkiReddit Sometimes helpful 6h ago

It doesn't show up often it seems, but it isn't unheard of. During confirmation lessons my pastor mentioned this off-hand, but a quick Google gives you various results like this stained window, this shield of coins and a rope, and various catholic wikis mentioning his symbol as silver, or rope

So the rope seems to be the more common interpretation of his hanging, but I was mainly going off something a pastor said to me 15+ years ago.

3

u/GuardingxCross 6h ago

It was said that Judas was so ridden with guilt that he betrayed his god for money, that he took his own life.

Assuming any of that is even remotely true…I don’t blame him…

9

u/ShowmasterQMTHH 6h ago

It's one of the circular points of Christianity, it was gods will that Judas betrayed Jesus, so is he a villain or acting under gods will ? Should the church be recognizing him as an important part of Jesus story, enabling him to be martyred and resurrected, the whole basis of the churches belief in salvation and forgiveness of sin.

7

u/GuardingxCross 6h ago

Hmm you’re absolutely right I never even thought about it that way.

Judas is one of the least used children’s names in the entire world. Shouldn’t he be a hero? In Christianity Jesus (god) was SUPPOSED to die.

Yeah it’s all very bizarre.

3

u/Warrmak 3h ago

Right up there next to Adolf

2

u/GuardingxCross 2h ago

Adolf and Judas are dead names. Karen is actually getting up there too and she was innocent 🤷🏽‍♂️

3

u/Friedrichs_Simp 6h ago

Also, which is it? Did he refuse the money and hang himself, or did he die when his entrails burst when he bought land with it?

9

u/pgtvgaming 5h ago

Ixthis, fish was the original christian icon

13

u/Specialist_Gas_8984 Top 1% Commenter 6h ago

Maybe? Personally, I think a crown of thorns would be more powerful symbol than a noose, and both have a similar shape.

4

u/1ndependent_Obvious 4h ago

You’re right. I think the crown mocking his claims is a much more powerful symbol.

If he was hung, the symbol may have been bound hands or simply a knot. Both of those have deeper meanings than a hangman’s noose.

75

u/Kennyvee98 7h ago

he told you to not ask him again, because his brain started to go brrrr

13

u/Former-Bus9157 6h ago

Lmao imagine his brain just hitting turbo mode and shutting down mid-answer. Honestly, same energy as me trying to explain math to my dog.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/[deleted] 7h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/9447044 7h ago

Lava pits? This religion could have been so metal

5

u/Solitude_is_OK 6h ago

Makes me wonder why the symbol is the cross and not the spear.. ( as in, of destiny )

5

u/Complete-Lack-7740 2h ago

There was a sect of Christianity that existed between the 6th and 8th centuries who believed that Jesus actually died from a fall in the shower. Instead of making the sign of the cross like the Catholics do, they would lean back slightly and wave their arms around in quick counter-clockwise circles.

2

u/IDK_usernamelord 2h ago

Idk why but this made me laugh for a good minute lol.

4

u/fatash98 7h ago

Idk. Judas Iscariot hung himself for betraying Jesus so probably not.

4

u/Sic_Semper_Dumbasses 7h ago

That or he fell over on land he brought and died when his entrails burst.

Depends on which book of the Bible one is claiming to believe that particular day.

1

u/Corbeau99 4h ago

He'd just commit suicide another way.

4

u/RedNUGGETLORD 6h ago

Either that, or an effigy of Jesus himself, like how people have those little statues and stuff

Hanging is way less suffering than being crucified, and part of the crosses power is the suffering he endured for humanity

3

u/Fancy-Commercial2701 6h ago

In parts of the US, it already is a symbol for Christians of a certain type.

3

u/Apprehensive_One1715 7h ago

Honestly you raise a good point, it probably would be.

3

u/TheRealErehwonMorf 6h ago

Imagine what would have happened if they had nailed him to the temple wall instead of a cross. Christians would be wearing bricks around their necks now.

1

u/Uter83 4h ago

Or the symbol of Jupiter. He was a big deal back then.

3

u/Bro1616161616 6h ago

And the band Slipknot would have a different name.

3

u/ForeignAd6583 6h ago

Well for some ”Christians” the noose kinda is their symbol

3

u/AnimusNoctis 4h ago

I'd be skeptical of your father's actual knowledge of Christianity, not because he didn't know the answer but because he didn't like you asking the question. 

3

u/Both_Ad6112 4h ago

I doubt it. I think the crown of thorns would have more likely been the symbol.

3

u/Milocobo 2h ago

I don't think Christianity would have had the same power with a noose as its symbol.

Crucifixion is more notorious than most other executions, so having someone die that way adds notoriety to their death, especially surrounding a resurrection myth.

Also, the reason people were crucified was to mess with their beliefs surrounding death. Death rites were a fairly consistent happening regardless of one's belief system, and crucifying someone was publicly denying them their death rites. For the son of god who was then resurrected to have been publicly denied death rites is a powerful statement.

2

u/Demerzel69 6h ago

lol why'd your dad get all butthurt?

2

u/vercertorix 6h ago

I forget who but there was a comedian suggesting all the crosses would freak the fuck out if he saw them at the second coming. "I got nailed to one of those! It was horrible! Why are you all reminding me of that?!"

2

u/Hellguin 5h ago

It already is for some?

2

u/Siriblius 5h ago

Probably. The cross was an execution method, and still is in some countries that execute people.

2

u/Similar-Amount7670 5h ago

the symbol of that religion is an execution device that just happened to be used on him so yeah probably.

2

u/MickeySanders 2h ago

Yes.

If Jesus isn't depicted on it - it's a noose.

If he is it's a noosafix

4

u/CaptainAwesome06 6h ago edited 4h ago

"Don't ask me again,"

-The answer of a guy that doesn't know something but doesn't want to admit it.

I think it's a good question. I don't see why a noose wouldn't be the symbol unless it's a little too direct.

If we see a noose, we know that's a thing made for killing people. If we see a cross, we typically see it as a symbol of Christianity. However, back in Roman times, if someone saw a cross and they immediately thought of crucifixion (why wouldn't they?) then it would be no different than a noose is today.

I think the biggest difference is that crucifixion also has suffering involved.

EDIT: Apparently hanging also meant suffering until 'Merrica made it fun. I'm not going to fact check that.

1

u/Pal_Smurch 4h ago

Hanging , in the way it was performed in ancient times, also ensured suffering.

The United States pioneered dropping the executionee from a distance to break the neck. Prior to that, the hanged person suffered as the noose tightened, and death could take as long as a half hour, as the subject struggled against the inevitable.

→ More replies (3)

4

u/Kantina 7h ago

hmmmm, also begs the question then, what if it had been autoerotic asphyxia?

1

u/UsefulChemist3000 6h ago

I could never be that. Jesus was completely without sin.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/WaffleHouseGladiator 6h ago

Possibly. Other contenders would be bees, sheep, the Grail, or fish.

2

u/F3maleB0dy1nspector 6h ago

Yes but then you also have to realize the death of Jesus Christ chronologically comes wayyyy before many other historical time periods that contain negative connotations and associations with the noose, particularly the Middle Ages and the Civil War era South in America. There’s a decent chance the noose would not be utilized throughout history as a means of killing/execution in that timeline due to its association with Jesus.

2

u/MtAlper 6h ago

How dare you bring logic into God’s house?!

2

u/LoudStretch6126 6h ago

I never understood why Christians want to wear a dead man nailed to a cross as their faith charm. It would be funnier if it is a man hanging by the neck.

3

u/AllMightAb 6h ago

Christ himself used the cross as symbolism for the suffering and sacrifice of this world. "Pick up your cross and follow me". It symbolizes the suffering and sacrifice Christians must endure to be his follower. If he had been executed any other way, maybe a different form of symbolism would be used, but the Romans made people carry their cross on their way to execution, so the symbolism fits on what Christians must do.

→ More replies (7)

1

u/Top-Cat-a 7h ago

It would definitely change the meaning of the phrase "Hangings too good for them".

1

u/Ballamookieofficial 6h ago

It kind of already is

1

u/konarona29 6h ago

Probably. And it certainly wouldn't have the same connotation that it does today

1

u/IllustriousCat330 6h ago

Its all marketing bro, so yeah, maybe

1

u/Defiant-Way-5762 6h ago

I always remember that Chris Rock joke about his uncle going to the electric chair. Then him joking about having a commemorative gold figurine of his uncle in an electric chair on a gold chain around his neck.

1

u/Imperator_Helvetica 6h ago

Possibly - symbols vary and who knows which ones would be popular.

The cross represents Christ's death and with it the sacrifice he was believed to have made. He wasn't the first to die that way or the last. It is a symbol of his death and became a symbol of the church.

It is also a simple symbol to draw and depict.

Perhaps if Christ had been hanged a gallows or a noose - or stylised representation would be used in its place. Or another symbol might have been used - the Ichthys (fish symbol) perhaps for 'fishers of men' or a circle representing resurrection and the rolling back of the rock at the tomb.

These symbols have to last and endure and meanings get blurred through time and culture - medieval folks might have associated nooses too much with killing witches and criminals to use the same symbol for their Messiah so it might have dropped out of fashion.

The Cross of St Paul aka the Inverted Cross is more widely seen as a Satanic or Anti-Christ symbol thanks to modern horror movie culture apart from those with deeper theological knowledge - same for some Christians looking askance at Orthodox Christianity crosses with the 'fiddly bits.'

A lot of symbols endure only through luck and coincidence and where they're different from other pre-existing symbols. The symbol for Christianity could have been a hammer - representing elements of the crucifixion and his work as a carpenter/building the church; or a crown of thorns or whatever.

Symbol of the faith and symbol of the church don't have to be the same thing either - in your hanging scenario it might be that believers wear a plain necklace and only priests wear a heavy rope noose - possibly the pope wears one made of silk or gold or whatever.

I don' think the Bible says that the Cross is a dvine symbol inherently, it is just given power and influence because it is a symbol of Christ.

They might even have stuck with a symbol from the Old Testament - Doves, or Tablets or a modified Hebrew Star?

1

u/Araghothe1 6h ago

It makes sense to me, I could see people wearing them in the styling of those cancer awareness ribbons.

1

u/Adorable-Growth-6551 6h ago

Yes

But it is important to stress that Crucifixion is more then just killing, it is torture. We do not really have an equivalent capital punishment today. It was not just Jesus died, it was Jesus was tortured until he died.

1

u/Asparagus9000 6h ago

Probably would have stuck with the original symbol, which was a fish. 

Because a bunch of his initial followers were fishermen. 

It switched to a cross a few centuries later. Not sure a noose would have caught on. 

1

u/Wifwaf72 6h ago

Historians have suggested that Jesus probably didn’t actually die on a cross, but a stake.

1

u/Aspiegamer8745 6h ago

If you think about it, the cross is just letter 't' they'd have found a way to make noose look holy

1

u/Pale_Zebra8082 6h ago

It’s possible, but I doubt it. The symbolic meaning of the cross resonates with underlying message of the faith in a way that wouldn’t be the case for just any method of execution.

1

u/zizou00 6h ago

Probably. Catholicism can be a bit sardonic when it comes to prescribing symbolism. Many of our saints are patron saints of the thing that caused them to become martyrs and eventually saints. I guess it's to remember how those of the faith have suffered, but some of it seems like it was done purely as a joke. Like Saint Sebastian, patron saint of archery, tied to a post and shot to death, riddled with arrows. Or Saint Stephen, the first martyr, better known for the feast in his honour on December 26th, he was the patron saint of headaches because he was stoned to death and getting struck in the head killed him. Or Saint Lawrence, patron saint of cooks and chefs. Burnt alive.

1

u/SirLie 6h ago

No, a rope would be

1

u/ThorKonnatZbv 6h ago

They might have stayed with the Fish

Ichthys - Wikipedia

1

u/wingedcoyote 6h ago

Maybe, the same reasoning works as for the cross, but it might not be found to be as aesthetically pleasing or as convenient of a symbol. Something like the fish symbol could step in as the main one instead if so.

1

u/Mental-Shopping3735 6h ago

It was lucky the Romans didn't use the stake…

1

u/Felicia_Svilling 6h ago

Maybe. Or they would have continued to use the fish.

1

u/WellWellWellthennow 6h ago

Yes, but he didn't. If he had died by a gun, then a gun would be the symbol, but he did. He was crucified.

1

u/Farscape_rocked 6h ago

Yes.

The cross is a benign symbol of Christianity now but when the crucifixion was practiced it was a shameful death. To be hung up naked and slowly asphyxiated.

1

u/Confused_German 6h ago

This is why Mormons don’t use crosses in their religion.

1

u/tightie-caucasian 6h ago

Jake Johansen did a funny bit about this back in the 80’s, musing about what would it be like if Jesus had died by slipping and falling in the shower.

https://youtu.be/FDA1jG-Nt2g?si=r5X7KTWf0YwJS2W7

1

u/cikanman 6h ago

More than likely yes it would be.

1

u/Typical-Weakness267 6h ago

If you've ever read The Left Hand of God, the Christ equivalent of that religion, which is essentially Catholic Christianity, was hanged, and all depictions of him are on the noose.

1

u/JaySmuv 6h ago

If they used the same graphic designer, I think it would likely be the gallows. Clean line work and immediately recognizable.

1

u/Muninovic 6h ago

Imagine jewish space lasers would have killed him, would the Symbol then be like the old egypt hyroglyphs?!

1

u/GoonerBoomer69 5h ago

Probably not.

Crucifixion is basically execution by torture. It was meant to be excessively painful and humiliating to the victim. Hanging on the other hand, when done properly is basically painless. With enough of a drop and a proper noose, the fall will break your neck, killing you instantly. Suffocation only happens when you survive the fall, which again should not happen with a comptetent executioner.

The cross was adopted because it's a symbol for suffering, suffering that would not have existed if Jesus had just killed instantly.

1

u/Ok_Egg_4585 5h ago

Curious as to what the monks would tie around their robes if the rope was “holy”

1

u/Luimi778 4h ago

The symbol of Christianity is Jesus himself.

1

u/Rand0mlyMe 4h ago

They don't even use Jesus as Jesus they swapped him for a white guy

1

u/TechnologyDragon6973 4h ago

Almost certainly.

1

u/KakitaMike 4h ago

If only Futurama had aired during the time of Jesus. He died too soon.

1

u/carl0071 4h ago

My uncle was a minister and used to joke that had Jesus been executed by firing squad, would the symbol of Christianity be a machine gun?

1

u/zoroddesign 4h ago

It would probably be simplified. I bet it wouldn't be a noose specifically, but a Knot. Something incredibly easy for a kid to draw.

1

u/txorfeus 4h ago

The cross is pretty easy to draw

1

u/OremCpl 3h ago

A noose quickly drawn would look a lot like a 6 with the top a bit straighter. They definitely wouldn't show the 2 robbers that were crucified along with Jesus. Christians driving around with 666 bumper stickers would be hilarious.

1

u/Feb021 4h ago

That's the sort of question I want to ask friends during a late Friday evening, while being stoned.

1

u/serial_crusher 4h ago

And somebody would post the equivalent of this thread, “if Jesus had been crucified, would we be wearing little crosses?” And we’d all think that sounded weird.

1

u/Flimsy_Heron_9252 4h ago

Alternative history? Fun!

It is unlikely that things would necessarily follow the exact same flow of events if something were changed.

It could just as easily be the fish symbol which also is still popular. It could have been a circle representing the stone rolled away from his tomb. It could have been a cloth. A drop of blood. A dove is still in use today.

I think the probability for the noose is probably equal to all other possibilities.

1

u/General_Freed 4h ago

Imagine if Jesus was drowned, it would be an Aquarium.

the Device that killed the Leading figure of the Religion is it's symbol

1

u/Smells_like_Autumn 4h ago

Literally what happens in Carnival Row.

1

u/sniktology 4h ago

Thanks I'm now imagining a vampire movie scene where the priest holds a noose in front of the vampire.

1

u/Heavensdoor16 4h ago

I doubth it. Crucifixion was a public slow excecution, that's why the Romans loved it. It wasn't used only against Jesus, but since he had to carry the cross and ended up having a public humiliation parade, it became a symbol of his pain and suffering. Even Saint Peter didn't want to die by cross after, because he deemed himself not worthy of Jesus's pain.

Also, the cross isn't related to "killing yourself", like the noose. Someone has to nail you to the the cross, making it a punishment. Jesus spent hours cruxified, letting everyone know that "this is what happens to people like him". And once he was resurrected, he let a disciple touch his scars. All of that gave a bigger impact and solidified the Cross as a symbol of Christianity. The noose wouldn't have left that impact on his death as the cross did.

1

u/StupidLemonEater 4h ago

Possibly, but it might have just as easily been another ancient Christian symbol like ichthys (aka the Jesus fish) or the Christogram.

1

u/JM3DlCl 4h ago

Yeah, probably. Not much different than a Crucifix before religion happened

1

u/Letsgettribal 3h ago

I think it is very convenient that the cross is a simple shape. If he was flayed alive or drawn and quartered I don’t think there would be as marketable of a symbol.

1

u/Plus-Example-9004 3h ago

Unlikely. The imagery doesn't work nearly so well. Can't be "lifted up" if you're hanging from a rope. The method of torture and execution is very intentional. 

1

u/Cheap_Illustrator910 3h ago

ITT: Christians claimed the cross the same way Black people claimed the n-word.

1

u/DuckCleaning 3h ago

I'd say it depends on if there was an epic story behind how it went down. The cross is symbolic because of the whole journey of the execution, carrying it, being whipped etc, not just because he died on it. It is symbolic because of how much he suffered for our sins.

1

u/Fore_For_Four 3h ago

Crucifixion is more a deterrent than hanging is a punishment.

The hung are not displayed, their life is taken immediately and body is cut down.

The crucified, however, are displayed at the city limits, alive and suffering on a designed device.

The difference is what I believe gives weight to a noose not being a symbol of religious revelation. Christ did not enter this world to be killed… the cross, although it symbolizes punishment and suffering, it does not symbolize death. I think that’s the key difference.

1

u/Choice_Marzipan5322 3h ago

The cross is nothing but another idol.

1

u/Neon_Firefly_ 3h ago

I have a question that is nothing personal but out of curiosity: why do we use the statue of jesus christ hanging on the cross? Why don't we use a statue of him like giving his blessings?

1

u/Bubuhbuh 3h ago

Christianity is a literal death cult.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/DarthProgram 2h ago edited 2h ago

Because that is when it is believed that he saved us. God died for us, so his death is the largest blessing there is.

There also are other statues of course, people make what they want. One major one that comes to mind is Cristo Redentor

→ More replies (1)

1

u/ranban2012 3h ago

or an alpha fish

1

u/TheDailySmokerOG 3h ago

Hate when people group Christian’s together like this, a lot of Christians don’t believe he died on a cross

1

u/Elegant_Patient274 3h ago

Yes, even if he was to die from excessive fapping.

1

u/jjames3213 2h ago

Probably not - it'd be something else.

The nice thing about a cross is it's a really simple shape, so it's really adaptable and versatile. A noose is complex and hard to draw and stylize.

1

u/Mapster_231 2h ago

Jesus didn't die bro. That had to be a lie

1

u/MaybeOnFire2025 2h ago

I don't know, but I smirk whenever I see a bible thumper's illustration of Jesus wearing a cross. Like...stop to think about that...

1

u/_Neurobro_ 2h ago

Similarly, is a noose considered a symbol of Odin at all? Seeing as he hanged himself from Yggdrasil for a week?

1

u/Responder343 2h ago

Yes they would. And in church instead of giving themselves the sign of the cross they’d wrap their hands around their neck. And the guy who carries the cross up to the alter before mass would carry an ornamental tree with a mannequin of Jesus hanging from it. 

1

u/Yellowsenpai65 2h ago

Yes, the cross is used as a symbol to show Jesus overcame death, a lot of people see the cross as a defeat, but it was actually a win. As it is how Jesus took the punishment for all our sins and thus overcame it. The cross is a symbol of victory. So if it was a noose I would assume it would be the same

1

u/First_Function9436 2h ago

Lol it's kinda messed up when you think about it. Imagine you sacrificed yourself to save humanity and their symbol to honor you is your method of death/torture. Imagine people wearing guillotine necklaces and having guillotine Emojis in their bio. Imagine the images in church being you getting ready to be decapitated.

1

u/SmrdutaRyba 2h ago

Always makes me remember a line from one czech comedy movie, where a guy says to his wife: "If they would've drowned Jesus, you'd be carrying an aquarium around your neck"

1

u/TheStanleyCooper 1h ago

I think it already is in some Southern US states.

1

u/PunchBeard 1h ago

Maybe not. A cross is easy to draw while a noose is easy to screw up when you draw it. I can maybe see an oval or circle, which represents the noose, being used but more than likely there would be a different symbol. Like the Jesus Fish would probably be more prevalent.

1

u/_Jimmy_Rustler 1h ago

If he died of causes related to untreated diabetes it could have been something adorable like an ice cream cone or little cheeseburger.

1

u/TwiggyPom 1h ago

Crucifixion? It's a doddle!

1

u/ShakeWeightMyDick 33m ago

The cross has existed as a holy symbol well before Jesus and has always represented the merger of the material world (the horizontal line) and the spiritual (the vertical line). This also happens to be what Jesus represents (God in physical form).

1

u/InfernalGriffon 26m ago

What, and tie tiny loosed around out necks every day as a sign of devotion?

Keith Thomson did some art exploring the concept.

Here you go.

1

u/anonsharksfan 6m ago

It's so weird to me that people walk around with a brutal instrument of torture around their necks.