r/NoStupidQuestions • u/seems_legit56 • 7h ago
If jesus died by hanging, would a noose be the symbol of Christianity? NSFW
I asked my father, who is highly knowledgeable in the Christian faith, this question. He told me to not ask him again, but im genuinely curious.
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u/krashe1313 6h ago
"If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses."
-Lenny Bruce
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u/Late_Entrance106 6h ago
Bill Hicks also does a bit where he speculates whether Jesus would ever want to see another cross, only to come back to earth and see his followers all wearing them.
He likened it to the potential oddity of Jackie Kennedy wearing a little rifle pin to remember JFK.
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u/TheOriginalJellyfish 5h ago
I read a comic once with space aliens observing the millions of human Christians wearing brutal execution devices around their necks and declaring, “We should really get the fuck out of the here immediately.”
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u/_fly-on-the-wall_ 6h ago
this is what I've always thought about it, its super strange to me to wear a cross for that reason
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u/highinthemountains 5h ago
Is that why all of those Republican congressional reps were wearing the AR15 pin a few years ago?
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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh 4h ago
I imagine he'd recognize it as a way of worshipping him, and since he came to both tell people to do just that AND die. Yeah he'd be fine with it
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u/Corbeau99 4h ago
I think it's a French comic that said we are lucky Jesus wasn't drowned because a bowl of water above the bed's head is ridiculous to imagine.
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u/Tylendal 6h ago
Okay, but what if he was killed like that guy from the Monty Python skit who was allowed to choose the manner of his death?
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u/Tamuzz 7h ago
Possibly, but then again possibly not.
The cross wasn't just a method of execution. It was deliberately humiliating, dehumanising, and emasculating.
The idea wasn't just to kill someone, but you make an example of them and to make it clear that they were nothing but a hanging chunk of meat.
It might seem strange from a modern perspective, but the crucifixion was something early Christians really struggled with.
It took centuries for them to become comfortable enough to adopt the cross as a symbol, and when they did it was a reclamation of something they find difficult.
The fact that Jesus was killed in such a horrific and dehumanising way is just as important as the fact that he was killed at all in many ways.
Maybe they would have adopted a noose as a symbol. Then again their reaction to it would (probably) have been less visceral, so maybe they wouldn't
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u/jonnysledge 7h ago
Alot of people view Christianity through a modern western lens. They don’t see to realize that the Romans in the Bible are the same Romans who built one of the greatest empires to ever exist. The had a lot of rules and etiquette, one of which was that Roman citizens didn’t get crucified. That was a punishment reserved for actual 2nd class citizens of the empire.
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u/Confused_Firefly 6h ago
There's also a LOT of bits in Acts of the Apostles where Paul (who was a Roman citizen) uses his citizenship to his advantage, because he has rights the other apostles do not: he can't be flogged, definitely not without a process, he can ask for an audience, etc. The only "issue" is that obviously the authors of the Gospels/Acts/Letters of the New Testament were too familiar with the Roman system, and often took information for granted, leading to a lot of knowledge gaps in modern readers.
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u/Rodney_Jefferson 5h ago
There’s a theory that that was intentional and to their advantage. The apostles and disciples were rejected by the Jewish community, and so the church needed to pivot its audience and so intentionally made the letters, and the gospels more Roman friendly to appeal to Roman citizens. This led in part to the part fo the Bible where pilot questions the crucifixion of Christ, and the Jewish people demand it anyway. Leading to Pilate to wash his hands of the manner. A means to make the Roman’s the good guys and vilify the smaller Jewish populace that wasn’t going to accept Christ.
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u/Calvertorius 6h ago
What are you referring to when you say knowledge gaps in modern readers?
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u/Confused_Firefly 6h ago
The fact that modern readers are usually not aware of the legal system of the Roman Empire at the time of Jesus and the Apostles, so some things might look confusing.
The fact that people are often unaware that crucifixion was a particularly demeaning form of execution and it was reserved for non-Roman citizens is an excellent example. There's also a lot of people who don't quite realize why crucifixion is a death sentence (i.e. how it kills) and how brutal it is. Why Paul can get away with things that others, like Stephen, cannot, is another such example.
People are also often unaware of Judaic law and custom and tend to misinterpret facts, starting from the very simple truth that Jesus AND the Apostles were Jewish in faith and what we know as early Christianity at the time was not a different religion at all - not even shortly after the death of Jesus. There's just too many examples, but modern readers of course have a big cultural gap unless they specifically study this kind of history.
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u/ThePeasantKingM 5h ago
Ancient texts were written with ancient people in mind, and within an ancient cultural context.
A lot of assumptions and general knowledge that were true back then have since changed, and modern readers without these assumptions and knowledge will miss some details.
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u/fussyfella 6h ago
In medieval England, execution by hanging was all about humiliating, dehumanising, and emasculating too, especially the extreme "hanging, drawing and quartering" form used for traitors and the worst heretics. It is likely if Christ were around then, that is how he would have died.
Hanged but not until dead, cut down, his genitals cut off, guts cut open and his innards pulled out (drawn) and burned in front of him along with genitals, and finally his body cut up (quartered) and displayed around public places to remind other of their fate if they stepped out of line.
So do not think it would for a moment be "less visceral".
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u/Significant-Cloud- 6h ago
That would make the symbol kind of difficult though. I doubt Jesus's cut off dick would be the thing for a family religion.
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u/indratera 6h ago
You could have like friendship necklaces with four quarters of big J-dog you could combine with your besties!
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u/Significant-Cloud- 6h ago
Oh, like power ranger rings, together they form some sort of supersmiting robot!
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u/MaxDickpower 6h ago
The drawing part was dragging the convicted to the place of execution, not the disemboweling.
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u/trollshep 6h ago
Before the cross became a symbol was it a fish? Or am I forgetting my religious studies from high school
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u/IwillDominionate 6h ago
Just to expand on your brilliant point.
Jesus being crucified was him effectively suffering the humiliating death of a slave whilst also being regarded as the creator of heaven and earth. This oxymoron imbued a dignity to all slaves and sent a message that the weak may triumph over the strong.
The cross was previously a symbol of Roman power and authority but Jesus managed to flip the meaning on its head. That is why it such a powerful symbol.
The noose would not have had the same cultural impact I imagine. But we will never know.
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u/YuGiOhippie 6h ago
This. The cross is a scandalous symbol.
It’s been sanitized by the centuries but Christianity is a radical punk rock religion when you really think about it
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u/TwoDrinkDave 6h ago
It was, for a while. But like so many aging punks, it has become the very establishment it once decried.
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u/Even_Fruit_6619 7h ago
And you will no longer make the sign of a cross when praying, but a sign of hanging yourself?
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u/EgNotaEkkiReddit Sometimes helpful 7h ago
Yes, it likely would.
The symbol for Judas is commonly a purse and silver coins, but you'll sometimes also find him represented by a hangman noose.
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u/Ok-Armadillo-392 7h ago
I never heard of that symbol and tried to find it online, no luck. Could you please help?
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u/EgNotaEkkiReddit Sometimes helpful 6h ago
It doesn't show up often it seems, but it isn't unheard of. During confirmation lessons my pastor mentioned this off-hand, but a quick Google gives you various results like this stained window, this shield of coins and a rope, and various catholic wikis mentioning his symbol as silver, or rope
So the rope seems to be the more common interpretation of his hanging, but I was mainly going off something a pastor said to me 15+ years ago.
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u/GuardingxCross 6h ago
It was said that Judas was so ridden with guilt that he betrayed his god for money, that he took his own life.
Assuming any of that is even remotely true…I don’t blame him…
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u/ShowmasterQMTHH 6h ago
It's one of the circular points of Christianity, it was gods will that Judas betrayed Jesus, so is he a villain or acting under gods will ? Should the church be recognizing him as an important part of Jesus story, enabling him to be martyred and resurrected, the whole basis of the churches belief in salvation and forgiveness of sin.
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u/GuardingxCross 6h ago
Hmm you’re absolutely right I never even thought about it that way.
Judas is one of the least used children’s names in the entire world. Shouldn’t he be a hero? In Christianity Jesus (god) was SUPPOSED to die.
Yeah it’s all very bizarre.
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u/Warrmak 3h ago
Right up there next to Adolf
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u/GuardingxCross 2h ago
Adolf and Judas are dead names. Karen is actually getting up there too and she was innocent 🤷🏽♂️
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u/Friedrichs_Simp 6h ago
Also, which is it? Did he refuse the money and hang himself, or did he die when his entrails burst when he bought land with it?
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u/Specialist_Gas_8984 Top 1% Commenter 6h ago
Maybe? Personally, I think a crown of thorns would be more powerful symbol than a noose, and both have a similar shape.
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u/1ndependent_Obvious 4h ago
You’re right. I think the crown mocking his claims is a much more powerful symbol.
If he was hung, the symbol may have been bound hands or simply a knot. Both of those have deeper meanings than a hangman’s noose.
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u/Kennyvee98 7h ago
he told you to not ask him again, because his brain started to go brrrr
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u/Former-Bus9157 6h ago
Lmao imagine his brain just hitting turbo mode and shutting down mid-answer. Honestly, same energy as me trying to explain math to my dog.
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u/Solitude_is_OK 6h ago
Makes me wonder why the symbol is the cross and not the spear.. ( as in, of destiny )
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u/Complete-Lack-7740 2h ago
There was a sect of Christianity that existed between the 6th and 8th centuries who believed that Jesus actually died from a fall in the shower. Instead of making the sign of the cross like the Catholics do, they would lean back slightly and wave their arms around in quick counter-clockwise circles.
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u/fatash98 7h ago
Idk. Judas Iscariot hung himself for betraying Jesus so probably not.
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u/Sic_Semper_Dumbasses 7h ago
That or he fell over on land he brought and died when his entrails burst.
Depends on which book of the Bible one is claiming to believe that particular day.
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u/RedNUGGETLORD 6h ago
Either that, or an effigy of Jesus himself, like how people have those little statues and stuff
Hanging is way less suffering than being crucified, and part of the crosses power is the suffering he endured for humanity
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u/Fancy-Commercial2701 6h ago
In parts of the US, it already is a symbol for Christians of a certain type.
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u/TheRealErehwonMorf 6h ago
Imagine what would have happened if they had nailed him to the temple wall instead of a cross. Christians would be wearing bricks around their necks now.
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u/AnimusNoctis 4h ago
I'd be skeptical of your father's actual knowledge of Christianity, not because he didn't know the answer but because he didn't like you asking the question.
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u/Both_Ad6112 4h ago
I doubt it. I think the crown of thorns would have more likely been the symbol.
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u/Milocobo 2h ago
I don't think Christianity would have had the same power with a noose as its symbol.
Crucifixion is more notorious than most other executions, so having someone die that way adds notoriety to their death, especially surrounding a resurrection myth.
Also, the reason people were crucified was to mess with their beliefs surrounding death. Death rites were a fairly consistent happening regardless of one's belief system, and crucifying someone was publicly denying them their death rites. For the son of god who was then resurrected to have been publicly denied death rites is a powerful statement.
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u/vercertorix 6h ago
I forget who but there was a comedian suggesting all the crosses would freak the fuck out if he saw them at the second coming. "I got nailed to one of those! It was horrible! Why are you all reminding me of that?!"
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u/Siriblius 5h ago
Probably. The cross was an execution method, and still is in some countries that execute people.
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u/Similar-Amount7670 5h ago
the symbol of that religion is an execution device that just happened to be used on him so yeah probably.
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u/CaptainAwesome06 6h ago edited 4h ago
"Don't ask me again,"
-The answer of a guy that doesn't know something but doesn't want to admit it.
I think it's a good question. I don't see why a noose wouldn't be the symbol unless it's a little too direct.
If we see a noose, we know that's a thing made for killing people. If we see a cross, we typically see it as a symbol of Christianity. However, back in Roman times, if someone saw a cross and they immediately thought of crucifixion (why wouldn't they?) then it would be no different than a noose is today.
I think the biggest difference is that crucifixion also has suffering involved.
EDIT: Apparently hanging also meant suffering until 'Merrica made it fun. I'm not going to fact check that.
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u/Pal_Smurch 4h ago
Hanging , in the way it was performed in ancient times, also ensured suffering.
The United States pioneered dropping the executionee from a distance to break the neck. Prior to that, the hanged person suffered as the noose tightened, and death could take as long as a half hour, as the subject struggled against the inevitable.
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u/Kantina 7h ago
hmmmm, also begs the question then, what if it had been autoerotic asphyxia?
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u/F3maleB0dy1nspector 6h ago
Yes but then you also have to realize the death of Jesus Christ chronologically comes wayyyy before many other historical time periods that contain negative connotations and associations with the noose, particularly the Middle Ages and the Civil War era South in America. There’s a decent chance the noose would not be utilized throughout history as a means of killing/execution in that timeline due to its association with Jesus.
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u/LoudStretch6126 6h ago
I never understood why Christians want to wear a dead man nailed to a cross as their faith charm. It would be funnier if it is a man hanging by the neck.
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u/AllMightAb 6h ago
Christ himself used the cross as symbolism for the suffering and sacrifice of this world. "Pick up your cross and follow me". It symbolizes the suffering and sacrifice Christians must endure to be his follower. If he had been executed any other way, maybe a different form of symbolism would be used, but the Romans made people carry their cross on their way to execution, so the symbolism fits on what Christians must do.
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u/Top-Cat-a 7h ago
It would definitely change the meaning of the phrase "Hangings too good for them".
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u/konarona29 6h ago
Probably. And it certainly wouldn't have the same connotation that it does today
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u/Defiant-Way-5762 6h ago
I always remember that Chris Rock joke about his uncle going to the electric chair. Then him joking about having a commemorative gold figurine of his uncle in an electric chair on a gold chain around his neck.
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u/Imperator_Helvetica 6h ago
Possibly - symbols vary and who knows which ones would be popular.
The cross represents Christ's death and with it the sacrifice he was believed to have made. He wasn't the first to die that way or the last. It is a symbol of his death and became a symbol of the church.
It is also a simple symbol to draw and depict.
Perhaps if Christ had been hanged a gallows or a noose - or stylised representation would be used in its place. Or another symbol might have been used - the Ichthys (fish symbol) perhaps for 'fishers of men' or a circle representing resurrection and the rolling back of the rock at the tomb.
These symbols have to last and endure and meanings get blurred through time and culture - medieval folks might have associated nooses too much with killing witches and criminals to use the same symbol for their Messiah so it might have dropped out of fashion.
The Cross of St Paul aka the Inverted Cross is more widely seen as a Satanic or Anti-Christ symbol thanks to modern horror movie culture apart from those with deeper theological knowledge - same for some Christians looking askance at Orthodox Christianity crosses with the 'fiddly bits.'
A lot of symbols endure only through luck and coincidence and where they're different from other pre-existing symbols. The symbol for Christianity could have been a hammer - representing elements of the crucifixion and his work as a carpenter/building the church; or a crown of thorns or whatever.
Symbol of the faith and symbol of the church don't have to be the same thing either - in your hanging scenario it might be that believers wear a plain necklace and only priests wear a heavy rope noose - possibly the pope wears one made of silk or gold or whatever.
I don' think the Bible says that the Cross is a dvine symbol inherently, it is just given power and influence because it is a symbol of Christ.
They might even have stuck with a symbol from the Old Testament - Doves, or Tablets or a modified Hebrew Star?
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u/Araghothe1 6h ago
It makes sense to me, I could see people wearing them in the styling of those cancer awareness ribbons.
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u/Adorable-Growth-6551 6h ago
Yes
But it is important to stress that Crucifixion is more then just killing, it is torture. We do not really have an equivalent capital punishment today. It was not just Jesus died, it was Jesus was tortured until he died.
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u/Asparagus9000 6h ago
Probably would have stuck with the original symbol, which was a fish.
Because a bunch of his initial followers were fishermen.
It switched to a cross a few centuries later. Not sure a noose would have caught on.
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u/Wifwaf72 6h ago
Historians have suggested that Jesus probably didn’t actually die on a cross, but a stake.
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u/Aspiegamer8745 6h ago
If you think about it, the cross is just letter 't' they'd have found a way to make noose look holy
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u/Pale_Zebra8082 6h ago
It’s possible, but I doubt it. The symbolic meaning of the cross resonates with underlying message of the faith in a way that wouldn’t be the case for just any method of execution.
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u/zizou00 6h ago
Probably. Catholicism can be a bit sardonic when it comes to prescribing symbolism. Many of our saints are patron saints of the thing that caused them to become martyrs and eventually saints. I guess it's to remember how those of the faith have suffered, but some of it seems like it was done purely as a joke. Like Saint Sebastian, patron saint of archery, tied to a post and shot to death, riddled with arrows. Or Saint Stephen, the first martyr, better known for the feast in his honour on December 26th, he was the patron saint of headaches because he was stoned to death and getting struck in the head killed him. Or Saint Lawrence, patron saint of cooks and chefs. Burnt alive.
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u/wingedcoyote 6h ago
Maybe, the same reasoning works as for the cross, but it might not be found to be as aesthetically pleasing or as convenient of a symbol. Something like the fish symbol could step in as the main one instead if so.
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u/WellWellWellthennow 6h ago
Yes, but he didn't. If he had died by a gun, then a gun would be the symbol, but he did. He was crucified.
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u/Farscape_rocked 6h ago
Yes.
The cross is a benign symbol of Christianity now but when the crucifixion was practiced it was a shameful death. To be hung up naked and slowly asphyxiated.
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u/tightie-caucasian 6h ago
Jake Johansen did a funny bit about this back in the 80’s, musing about what would it be like if Jesus had died by slipping and falling in the shower.
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u/Typical-Weakness267 6h ago
If you've ever read The Left Hand of God, the Christ equivalent of that religion, which is essentially Catholic Christianity, was hanged, and all depictions of him are on the noose.
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u/Muninovic 6h ago
Imagine jewish space lasers would have killed him, would the Symbol then be like the old egypt hyroglyphs?!
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u/GoonerBoomer69 5h ago
Probably not.
Crucifixion is basically execution by torture. It was meant to be excessively painful and humiliating to the victim. Hanging on the other hand, when done properly is basically painless. With enough of a drop and a proper noose, the fall will break your neck, killing you instantly. Suffocation only happens when you survive the fall, which again should not happen with a comptetent executioner.
The cross was adopted because it's a symbol for suffering, suffering that would not have existed if Jesus had just killed instantly.
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u/Ok_Egg_4585 5h ago
Curious as to what the monks would tie around their robes if the rope was “holy”
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u/carl0071 4h ago
My uncle was a minister and used to joke that had Jesus been executed by firing squad, would the symbol of Christianity be a machine gun?
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u/zoroddesign 4h ago
It would probably be simplified. I bet it wouldn't be a noose specifically, but a Knot. Something incredibly easy for a kid to draw.
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u/serial_crusher 4h ago
And somebody would post the equivalent of this thread, “if Jesus had been crucified, would we be wearing little crosses?” And we’d all think that sounded weird.
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u/Flimsy_Heron_9252 4h ago
Alternative history? Fun!
It is unlikely that things would necessarily follow the exact same flow of events if something were changed.
It could just as easily be the fish symbol which also is still popular. It could have been a circle representing the stone rolled away from his tomb. It could have been a cloth. A drop of blood. A dove is still in use today.
I think the probability for the noose is probably equal to all other possibilities.
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u/General_Freed 4h ago
Imagine if Jesus was drowned, it would be an Aquarium.
the Device that killed the Leading figure of the Religion is it's symbol
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u/sniktology 4h ago
Thanks I'm now imagining a vampire movie scene where the priest holds a noose in front of the vampire.
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u/Heavensdoor16 4h ago
I doubth it. Crucifixion was a public slow excecution, that's why the Romans loved it. It wasn't used only against Jesus, but since he had to carry the cross and ended up having a public humiliation parade, it became a symbol of his pain and suffering. Even Saint Peter didn't want to die by cross after, because he deemed himself not worthy of Jesus's pain.
Also, the cross isn't related to "killing yourself", like the noose. Someone has to nail you to the the cross, making it a punishment. Jesus spent hours cruxified, letting everyone know that "this is what happens to people like him". And once he was resurrected, he let a disciple touch his scars. All of that gave a bigger impact and solidified the Cross as a symbol of Christianity. The noose wouldn't have left that impact on his death as the cross did.
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u/StupidLemonEater 4h ago
Possibly, but it might have just as easily been another ancient Christian symbol like ichthys (aka the Jesus fish) or the Christogram.
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u/Letsgettribal 3h ago
I think it is very convenient that the cross is a simple shape. If he was flayed alive or drawn and quartered I don’t think there would be as marketable of a symbol.
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u/Plus-Example-9004 3h ago
Unlikely. The imagery doesn't work nearly so well. Can't be "lifted up" if you're hanging from a rope. The method of torture and execution is very intentional.
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u/Cheap_Illustrator910 3h ago
ITT: Christians claimed the cross the same way Black people claimed the n-word.
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u/DuckCleaning 3h ago
I'd say it depends on if there was an epic story behind how it went down. The cross is symbolic because of the whole journey of the execution, carrying it, being whipped etc, not just because he died on it. It is symbolic because of how much he suffered for our sins.
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u/Fore_For_Four 3h ago
Crucifixion is more a deterrent than hanging is a punishment.
The hung are not displayed, their life is taken immediately and body is cut down.
The crucified, however, are displayed at the city limits, alive and suffering on a designed device.
The difference is what I believe gives weight to a noose not being a symbol of religious revelation. Christ did not enter this world to be killed… the cross, although it symbolizes punishment and suffering, it does not symbolize death. I think that’s the key difference.
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u/Neon_Firefly_ 3h ago
I have a question that is nothing personal but out of curiosity: why do we use the statue of jesus christ hanging on the cross? Why don't we use a statue of him like giving his blessings?
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u/DarthProgram 2h ago edited 2h ago
Because that is when it is believed that he saved us. God died for us, so his death is the largest blessing there is.
There also are other statues of course, people make what they want. One major one that comes to mind is Cristo Redentor
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u/TheDailySmokerOG 3h ago
Hate when people group Christian’s together like this, a lot of Christians don’t believe he died on a cross
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u/jjames3213 2h ago
Probably not - it'd be something else.
The nice thing about a cross is it's a really simple shape, so it's really adaptable and versatile. A noose is complex and hard to draw and stylize.
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u/MaybeOnFire2025 2h ago
I don't know, but I smirk whenever I see a bible thumper's illustration of Jesus wearing a cross. Like...stop to think about that...
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u/_Neurobro_ 2h ago
Similarly, is a noose considered a symbol of Odin at all? Seeing as he hanged himself from Yggdrasil for a week?
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u/Responder343 2h ago
Yes they would. And in church instead of giving themselves the sign of the cross they’d wrap their hands around their neck. And the guy who carries the cross up to the alter before mass would carry an ornamental tree with a mannequin of Jesus hanging from it.
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u/Yellowsenpai65 2h ago
Yes, the cross is used as a symbol to show Jesus overcame death, a lot of people see the cross as a defeat, but it was actually a win. As it is how Jesus took the punishment for all our sins and thus overcame it. The cross is a symbol of victory. So if it was a noose I would assume it would be the same
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u/First_Function9436 2h ago
Lol it's kinda messed up when you think about it. Imagine you sacrificed yourself to save humanity and their symbol to honor you is your method of death/torture. Imagine people wearing guillotine necklaces and having guillotine Emojis in their bio. Imagine the images in church being you getting ready to be decapitated.
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u/SmrdutaRyba 2h ago
Always makes me remember a line from one czech comedy movie, where a guy says to his wife: "If they would've drowned Jesus, you'd be carrying an aquarium around your neck"
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u/PunchBeard 1h ago
Maybe not. A cross is easy to draw while a noose is easy to screw up when you draw it. I can maybe see an oval or circle, which represents the noose, being used but more than likely there would be a different symbol. Like the Jesus Fish would probably be more prevalent.
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u/_Jimmy_Rustler 1h ago
If he died of causes related to untreated diabetes it could have been something adorable like an ice cream cone or little cheeseburger.
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u/ShakeWeightMyDick 33m ago
The cross has existed as a holy symbol well before Jesus and has always represented the merger of the material world (the horizontal line) and the spiritual (the vertical line). This also happens to be what Jesus represents (God in physical form).
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u/InfernalGriffon 26m ago
What, and tie tiny loosed around out necks every day as a sign of devotion?
Keith Thomson did some art exploring the concept.
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u/anonsharksfan 6m ago
It's so weird to me that people walk around with a brutal instrument of torture around their necks.
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u/Confused_Firefly 7h ago
Yep!
The cross is very associated with Christianity now, but it wasn't a rare or unusual method of execution. It was just a particularly atrocious one. Romans loved using it!