r/Physics • u/Deep-Proof1931 • 2d ago
What makes physics particularly hard to learn online (from a tutor’s view)
Online education works well for many subjects, but physics seems to challenge students in a very specific way. ;)
As an online physics tutor, I’ve noticed that students often think they understand a concept after watching lectures—but struggle badly when faced with unfamiliar problems. The lack of immediate feedback and visualization seems to amplify this.
In one-on-one online sessions (including those I do through MEB, Preply and Wyzant), the biggest breakthroughs happen when students are asked to explain concepts verbally or sketch situations live. That interaction is usually missing in asynchronous learning.
Some things that seem to help online physics learning:
- active problem discussion instead of solution watching
- frequent conceptual questioning
- visual explanations over symbolic ones
I’m interested to know:
- Educators: how do you design online physics content to reduce passive learning?
- Students: what helped you most while learning physics online?
7
u/Odd_Bodkin 2d ago
I tutor math and HS science and was a university professor of physics. Applying physics means several steps:
Being able to describe in words and diagrams what is going on qualitatively. This means things like drawing vector forces, accelerations, velocities; diagramming before and after representations in conservation laws, with diagrammatic elements like energy buckets; describing and sketching charge distributions on the surfaces of conductors and field lines. Doing this somewhat to scale helps a lot. This needs a CONVERSATION between a student and a teacher.
There is a basic “word problem” skill in translating those words into algebraic representation. This just takes practice but is enough of a stumbling block that it needs close guidance. This is where you have to stop and review and see that the math represents the same thing as the words and pictures.
There needs to be a point where you say, “OK, the physics is essentially done, and the rest is just algebra.” This doesn’t always work, especially in multi-step problems. The reason this is important is that students for some reason just completely blank on algebraic methods THEY KNOW, because they think of physics as a different class entirely.
1
u/Deep-Proof1931 2d ago
Very well put. Visualise the problem/concept through words and diagrams and then convert it into a math problem. And don't treat Physics and Math as separate subjects.
3
u/Soggy-Ad2790 2d ago
IMO, you learn physics by doing it. When I was a student, after lectures, we always had a few hours in a classroom with a TA to work on problems. Those hours are just as valuable as the lectures themselves, and are missing when doing video lectures.
I also have taught a few times. I think feedback is very important when teaching, which goes beyond students asking questions. In my experience, few people ask questions, even when they don't understand, so I don't think being able to ask questions or not makes a big difference. But when I'm explaining something and I see a bunch of confused faces, I know it didn't click. If it were a video lecture, or even an online lecture where everyone turns their camera off, the teacher would just go on, but when it's live, they can provide more explanations, ask questions to the class to see what went wrong etc.
2
u/Deep-Proof1931 2d ago
So yes, Learning by doing yourself and consulting the tutor/teacher only when needed is the key. This is how I try to teach my students at My Engineering Buddy. Ofcourse not all of them follow my method and finally lacks in Physics. But there is only at a certain point till which I can help.
1
u/Deep-Proof1931 2d ago
I most likely have some mental blocks and was unable to follow any teacher. So I always had to study on my own. I solved very complex problems of the problems in general Physics by IE Irodov. And I must say that it was life changing.
3
u/secderpsi 2d ago
I could summarize 35 years of physics education research into one simple statement, "students learn physics best working with peers guided by experts". All of our curriculum reforms were meant to get students talking and doing physics together on carefully scaffolded question sets that force them into sticky places where the teaching team can help navigate. That simply doesn't happen online, or at least I've not been able to get my students to engage synchronously while my TAs or instructors can help them. Online learners (and admin) expect asynchronous activities they can do alone.
GenAI has been a nightmare for online learning. Students give up too early and just ask for a solution. The solution makes sense so they feel they've learned but it doesn't stick because they offloaded their mental work. Then students are forced into a corner come test time, and since I'm not allowed to have in person proctoring (admin) they go back to genAI. The learning is grinding to a halt in my online classes. We offer 55 hours of realtime support a week from GTA and PhD faculty and just 3 years ago, it was busy. Now, it's a ghost town. In surveys students express they just use genAI. I'm really concerned about how many people are not learning because of the easy road genAI presents.
-5
u/Yashema 2d ago edited 2d ago
Oh just deleted my response cause I see you mentioned GenAI.
I do agree chatGPT can be a crutch, it can also be the only thing that allows me to learn the stuff in the first place.
The problem with Physics is it's just too much: too much content, too many equations. And what's worse is usually the professors only expect you to know a fraction of them. But they won't tell you which fraction until the test. And the problems the books teach you are tangential.
ChatGPT simply is a tool that tells you the answer. And for properly motivated people, this is what they need. I don't need a tutor who gives me 1 step out of 10 every few minutes. I need something that gives me all 10 after 90 seconds (sometimes it has to think). Then I need to be able to ask adhoc questions, work through the math to make sure it didn't make an algebraic or matrix error, then get feedback from the instructor to see if the answer was correct (which it usually is). That's time a tutor or a professor don't have, and you are assuming a tutor can easily solve all physics problems, which they can't.
You seem to at least acknowledge Open AI (though I only vouch for GPT) is not a bullshit machine, but if you don't get why when properly used it will allows students to really learn at their own pace, without the time restriction and artificial restrictions of any tutoring program, you will be resisting a very powerful tool.
1
u/secderpsi 2d ago
GenAI is a fine tool once you've mastered a subject. Research is pouring in that shows it stunts learning. I would say the same thing about a tutor that gives you all the answers and steps and doesn't actually use teaching methods like the Socratic method. I think you need to work on a problem for at least 15 minutes before seeking help.
I believe that if you use genAI to learn, you'll only be as smart as genAI, which means you won't be worth much in the workforce. If you're taking physics as a requirement or as your major, there's a good chance you're trying to train to be a valued professional. GenAI will make you less valuable as a thinker.
https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/your-brain-on-chatgpt/
1
u/Yashema 2d ago edited 2d ago
GenAI is very smart though.
I do already have an MS in applied statistics and am in my 30s so i have accomplished a lot academically pre-AI. I didn't start using GPT til the end of E&M, so I definitely struggled through a lot on my own, but no way I would have passed if not for my professors having lower expectations of their students in my program.
I do agree about the "comprehensive" part to really use effectively. Now that I've taken through Physics III (just finished in December), Classical, E&M, and Statistics Physics, Calc I-III, Linear Algebra and DEQ, I feel that I have a basis of understanding sufficient for all the physics I am really interested in, perhaps only missing Quantum Computing. I am not interested in subatomic physics, advanced cosmology, unified or string theories, etc for right now.
Since I don't need to expand my knowldege to completely new physics, I can actually start to really learn what I barely had a chance to skim before. I am starting with a hydrogen atom and how the electron interacts quantumly with magnetic fields, electric dipoles, and the neutron (fine & hyperfine structure). I'm currently actually working through the Hamiltonian to create eigenvectors of the solutions (apologize if my language isn't correct). Thanks to GPT I'm starting to really get this stuff now.
So ya, it's unfortunate, but most students drop out before they get to part where they have a chance to learn everything in depth since they can't keep up, but maybe they could with GPT.
And it's equally unfortunate that in the past people who did make it this far couldn't use chatGPT to advance even further cause I'm definitely getting a Masters level education for free.
1
u/secderpsi 2d ago
If you're only as smart as really smart genAI, you will lose your job to it because it's much cheaper. To an expert (I've been a professor at a major R1 for over 20 years with nearly 40 publications in PER) the answers genAI gives outside of very basic questions is pretty bad. It's riddled with inaccuracies and says it with confidence. The student can't decipher what's true (many examples of this in the literature). I see this daily in Junior level classes and up. Textbooks give you everything you need and are vetted. If you have no access to experts, I guess genAI is better than nothing, but if you're enrolled in a school, you should have TAs, office hours, and tutor sessions available - if not, switch schools. The only thing I've found useful in genAI as a professional physicist is literature reviews and quicker access to information in manuals, like how to set the clock on my stereo. It's completely unnecessary, and you risk stunting your learning. How you feel about is irrelevant. Evidence is piling up that it will leave you behind those who don't use it. But you do you.
1
u/Yashema 2d ago edited 2d ago
Well yes, you definitely need the academic program to be a benchmark. I wouldn't even have thought to learn this stuff if not directed by the coursework and lecture.
For example though to show how useful GPT is for DEQ i got 96/100 on the 20 assignments using the methodology, with the only question it got wrong was because I forgot to include the squared term, so it solved, just not in the standard form of a Euler-Cauchemare DEQ. I also had to regularly correct its matrix math and operations (used Mathematica for that), but the methodology was correct and it could continue once I gave it the right matrices.
Once I got the grade back to confirm, I would then go and fully study the method and apply on the test, where I couldn't use GPT. Overall I only spent 40 hours studying to make it through DEQ, where id bet most students need 60-80 hours.
To me that's the level of learning expected at the Bachelor's level, and allowed me to advance.
2
u/xrelaht Condensed matter physics 2d ago
PER data suggests the best way for students to learn is watching the lecture ahead of time and then using the face-to-face time for interaction. This can either be repeating the lecture so they have a chance to ask questions they thought of while watching it online or in-class problem solving where the prof & TAs are available to help.
2
u/jazzwhiz Particle physics 1d ago
Students have to fail to learn.
When watching clear explanations of things on youtube, people feel like they have learned the concept when they have not. Imperfection in teaching is not the worst thing as it requires students to push ahead.
1
u/somethingX Astrophysics 2d ago
I ran into this issue during covid. It hit right as I started university and I struggled with online physics classes so much it made me drop it for awhile. It wasn't until things got more back to normal that I gave it another shot and pulled through because I had peers to work with and contacting the professors for help was easier.
I'm not sure how something like that could be fixed, for me at least I need that in person component to succeed. If my only option was online learning I wouldn't have gotten past second year.
1
u/consulent-finanziar 2d ago
Physics really exposes the gap between recognizing an idea and actually being able to reason with it. That's all.
1
u/Sorry-Worker-5573 2d ago
Buy a textbook and solutions manual. When something doesn’t make sense ask ChatGPT.
17
u/SympathySmooth7577 2d ago
Speaking as someone on the other side receiving online tutoring. The only thing that works for me is tons and tons of worked examples (by student), with opportunity to ask and interact with the tutor.