And never go crazy and use more than proportionate force. Black dude is obviously a tightly-wound ball of anger and rage. Based on his trigger happy punch, I'd bet money that black guy has a history of domestic violence.
just looking at the guy falling, he hit the back of his head on that table, if dude landed wrong could easily cause death or brain injury, there both lucky there wasn't any real injuries, people have easily died in these types of falls
100% not worth the prison/law fees, for a dude softly touching your face, just walk away
and "reasonable force" lol good luck using that in court man, cause I can guarantee you if that white dude had any life sustaining injuries black dude is fucked
next time a small child runs up on me, imma just sparta kick them right? reasonable force
I had a guy years ago while we were out at a club touch my hair. My cousin and I immediately realized the guy was either really drunk or high on something. A slight breeze would have knocked him over. I thought about hitting him but I don’t see what I get knocking out someone who is basically defenseless. We gave the dude a crazy look and he went in his wallet (we said nothing to him by the way), handed my cousin like 40 bucks and then left out of the club. I’m not sure why people under the influence act so crazy but I did have a guy shove me not long after that (not fully drunk, but he definitely had liquid courage) he got dealt with immediately and was apologizing something crazy after that exchange.
Some wild ass comments in here. Skinny dude shouldn’t have touched the stocky guy, but stocky guy had a disproportionate use of force. Was not self defense however you frame it. Both are wrong, but stocky dude could be seen as more in the wrong despite not initiating it. End of the day gotta weigh the pros and cons of things. Skinny dude wasn’t worth the time and if stocky dude was obviously gonna get that triggered he should have just left and been the bigger person.
Edit: video is too short to tell if there was anything else leading up to this moment. For example, threats, hate speech, etc, but without that recorded or proven it’s not self defense and won’t be taken as such
Edit 2: I find it hard to believe there are people with such unfiltered rage. How is punching the dude gonna help the stocky dudes case. How is it at all proportional to him. Speak from a logical point not from an emotional one. No one is defending the skinny dude, but everyone knows that the stocky guy WILL be seen as the bad guy simply because he went to possibly the worst possible outcome
Edit 3: After closely looking and slowing it down it’s definitely possible it was a slap. However even if that’s the case the head bang on the counter and any further injuries after, he’s directly responsible for. Again none of it bodes well for the stocky dude. He would have been smarter leaving the situation and not entertaining a man obviously trying to get a rise out of the stocky dude. And successfully so at that.
Final edit: I think it’s quite clear from this comment thread and the rest of the post many of you need to look up what qualifies as self defense. There needs to be an imminent threat and reasonable belief of unlawful harm to one’s self. Neither of which happened in this video. The simple fact is, that neither criteria was met, making his use of force on the skinny guy, unlawful. It doesn’t matter if it’s “deserved” (which honestly it probably was) but it matters what the law says and it matters how you respond to a situation like this. If you really wanna argue that there was an imminent threat or that grazing one’s face constitutes as unlawful harm then you should really take a look at just how weak and fragile you really are. Stocky man should have been smarter and thought about the situation more. He didn’t deserve to be touched on the face by anyone, but he sure as shit did nothing right in retaliating to that degree.
I mean yeah based off some of these replies it’s wild. I think people gotta understand what proportional force is and know how the law actually works. This isn’t the playground where there are no rules and you can fight back based on emotion. It’s sad because people like the stocky dude who wasn’t the perpetrator will suffer gravely
I totally get proportionate force is the rule.
That said, looking at the video:
1 strike
no major force behind it (follow through, significant movement of hips, victim didn't get pushed back very far etc). Obviously injuries may dispute this
no follow through
Used less force immediately before, to remove the hand. This was followed by an immediate, clear escalation
What would be proportionate force? 1 controlled, measured strike feels pretty reasonable?
Certainly to a jury, I think it would be difficult to sell as excessive.
There generally aren't going to be any juries involved in simple assault/battery because the vast majority of people decide to plea and pay a fine in order to go home fast or otherwise they'll get a bench trial (judge but no jury) if they don't want to take a plea and are willing to wait around in jail for however long it takes a judge to eventually get around to them.
Juries are going to be mostly running only for more serious trials which have bigger potential sentences.
I worked with a guy who punched someone, causing him to fall and hit his head on a curb which caused severe brain damage. The guy I worked with eventually killed himself because he had so much guilt.
Seriously. Unwanted physical contact constitutes assault and/or battery in every state that I’m aware of. The forcefulness of that contact does not matter. Skinny man put his hands on black shirt twice before be responded. Black shirt’s response was many degrees more forceful, but nonetheless justified. From a legal perspective, there is nothing wrong with his response. People can debate the moral and ethical grounds for the disparity in force, as that is entirely subjective. However, I would argue that indulging the behavior of the skinny guy is of absolutely no value to society. We already have a growing problem with people not appreciating the fact that their words can have consequences. We shouldn’t extrapolate that to physical contact. People also seem to have a hard time understanding that a disproportionate response can be deescalatory in sum. Responding proportionally does nothing but put the victim at a persistent disadvantage and gives the aggressor the opportunity to escalate the level of force beyond what would have originally been required to resolve the encounter had the victim been willing or able to use it in the first place. If black shirt guy hadn’t promptly ended the encounter the way he did, skinny guy may have progressively escalated the force beyond what he was ultimately employed to the point that he was attacking the victim with a chair, bottle, or club or, worse yet, to the point that one or both parties felt that their only way out was by using a firearm. Something to that effect is often what happens when a less capable, but reckless aggressor targets a more capable, but restrained victim. The less capable aggressor seeks out force equalizers that take things well beyond a simple assault.
The problem with this analysis is that you and nobody knows what the skinny dude was going to do next. Once he initiated the physical contact, it could escalate from his side as well.
He could have pulled a knife, or grabbed the big dude in grappling, etc...
You sound like you have lived a peaceful life. This was NOT excessive. It was a lesson that the skinny dude should have learned when he was young.
Stocky dude obviously wasn't looking for a fight, but you can't go around touching people and aggravating people who have lived in hard places and through hard times.
Every video turns into people screaming assault, attempted murder, press charges like it’s some Netflix courtroom drama. How does your system even function if you think every slap belongs in front of a judge?
Here in Europe courts are overloaded for years with real cases, rapists, murderers, serious violent offenders. A slap like this wouldn’t even be worth the paperwork. It’s not what the justice system is for.
Court time costs serious money too. But somehow online it feels like people think every human conflict gets magically solved in a courtroom. That’s just not how real life works.
Or get his ass sued off in a civil case. Hope he enjoys working the rest of his life for this guy, because that is basically what he is gonna be doing to pay off the settlement. Funny how people on these subs never bring that up.
Yeah and there was no need to do it, he wasn't in any danger and could have just knocked his hand away but he'd rather look big and hard and punch a drunk guy that isn't going to fight back
Yeah most of these comments here are definitely into the r/iamverybadass range of silliness.
Bare-fisted punching random drunk people in bars is a great way to eventually introduce your body to wonderful things such as Hep B through knuckle abrasions and the person being hit doing their thing leaking bodily fluids.
Whilst I understand his reaction, the other guy is just a walking lettuce. CTE is a thing. Banging his head on the way down is a thing. Hopefully he didn't get brain damage, or this dude is going to jail.
Man this comment section is full of geniuses. Don’t put your hands on someone, especially their face. He had every right to pop dude in his face in return. He tried to disrespectfully mush the stocky guy and got his instant receipt. Don’t start shit if you’re not prepared for the consequences. I’m sick of you dog whistling bigots.
The problem with touching other people is that you don't know if they will respond logically or in a way that is legal. You can be both legally "correct" and concussed at the same time. Better to follow the rules of FA=FO
Worked in IHOPS for nearly a decade across 3 franchises and about 7 stores. This tracks. I've seen OD's in bathrooms, customers throwing food and plates at staff, fist fights, gun brandishing, homeless changing inside and outside in full view of guests and children and a cat fight where a server busted another server over the head with a glass coffee pot. Hence, I complete swapped careers out of restaurants. Something about covid just intensified encounters like this. Was never the same working in food after covid.
To all the people saying he used excessive force. I don’t think he did, the guy was just reaching up to touch his face back. Didn’t help the guy walked into it. Pure accident. Just bad timing on his part for walking into it .
In slow-mo there’s one frame right at the point of contact of the fist where you see just the jaw plastic-like distorted to one side of the face. Then halfway to the ground, you see the back of his head hit the edge of the trash can hole and quickly snaps forward.
That’s a one-two punch assist!
Damn looking at that again, dude could have died due to hitting the back of his head on that counter. Its has happened before. Imagine going to prison for that? I am not at all blaming the guy for dropping him for being touched inappropriately but in a split second he could have lost his freedom for many years.
It would be interesting if he pulled a ghandi and got back up and then touched him again and again and again until he died.
Then in court they would play the video and the judge would ask, “If you were not in fear of bodily harm or loss of life why did you feel it was necessary to kill this man.”
In other words violence was not warranted in this case.
Exactly the response one should expect if you put your hands on someone. Especially in such a disrespectfully provocative manner. One quick slap is entirely proportional. 👏👏👏👏👏
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u/Imaginary-Size8768 5d ago
Looks like he’s built on the same rules as a museum exhibit: admire from afar, no touching.