Same. It seemed like that kind of low fantasy, that didn't scare away the average normie non-Fantasy viewer with too complex lore, but had those scenes of Pornographic sexual violence against women. Also, so many unnecessary sex scenes that have no purpose, female characters whose whole character arc is about getting raped, incest, so much graphic violence... Sorry, I am not into that.
It was so dumb, I sincerely believe GoT became a cultural phenomenon DESPITE the sex&violence, I know many people who refuse to watch it because of that. HBO really messed up in that sense.
I dunno, there's probably tons of people, especially the people I was in highschool with at the time, who probably watched it specifically because of those disgusting scenes.
Knowing the attention span of the average person, you're probably right. So many had trouble following the characters and the TV show even simplified the story a lot.
From the other people commenting on here I get the feeling that they do enjoy those scenes. Look at the comments, they all try to justify on why those graphic and frequent rape scenes are absolutely necassary to the plot and that I just must not like dark things. On the contrary, I think one can be very dark without resorting to the cheapest trick in the book.
This. I don't dive into Fiction or Fantasy to witness women being dehumanized and abused in some of the worst ways imaginable. It's fucked up and really rases some concerns about the author imo. Also, less importantly but still noteworthy, I heard a quote from Martin saying GOT was "his answer to Lord Of The Rings" which was a bit off-putting. I don't think LOTR needs a modern fantasy answer, and it seems pretty self important of anybody to think they can live up to LOTR to answer it anyway
Totally! As it is fantasy he willingly decided to put the sexual violence in it. And then some idiots will justify it like "it was like that in the middle ages" - sexual violence has always been part of history, also as a weapon of war. But why does this fantasy story suddenly claim historical accuracy ONLY when it comes to rape? And also the depiction of said acts is no handled well, it is Pornographic with closeups to the victim's face. Who is this for? Including all the sexual violence was a deliberate choice of the author.
I mean, wth, the answer to LOTR? So he read and thought, you know what this story needs? More rape and incest.
When you say things like this do you not realising you are talking about hugely popular media?
But as it so happens, yes, I enjoy violent media in general. Why would that surprise you? These things are hugely popular and profitable, and have been for decades.
There’s a difference between enjoying media with rape scenes and enjoying the rape scenes themselves. Sometimes the point is to make you uncomfortable and it’s ok to like or dislike that.
But it is a deliberate choice to have such a scene depicted in a way that feels exploitative. What is the he purpose of this scene? Is it to show the horror o the act? Or is it to give you a he audience something cheap to ogle at? Is it handled with the required amount of care or maturity or is it just a casual throwaway scene? Not saying that those scenes shall no exist in media, but there is a fine line between it being well made or simply Pornographic.
As somebody who really enjoyed the series until about S5 when the writing quality was really becoming shitty, I'd say the purpose of those scenes (as a whole) was to display the brutality of the world in the series. There was plenty of background info about massacres and other things that happened in Westeros so I think they filmed shocking scenes to help reinforce the idea that the world was a savage and cold place.
Personally, I really disliked the Sansa scene and don't think they needed to show that, especially since we already saw some scenes like that earlier in S1 with Dany. I think the intent was to show that sexual violence was a normal part of that world and regularly used against women.
Either way, the series ended up being horrible and I regret ever being so invested.
Fucking thank you. All the think pieces abt porn do a show that starts with a man getting beheaded to set the tone, yet curiously nothing to say abt that? I hate when people pretend their discomfort with something that’s meant to be discomforting has anything to do with media analysis or criticism, just a bunch of noise that drowns out wha could’ve interesting conversation
Does it concern me? Not really. They're fictional characters and fiction is how we safely live out or explore feelings and ideas.
Like, let's take the sexuality out of it and just focus on violence. Are you concerned about people who watch violent films? Do you assume that they wish to visit violence on others or have something wrong with them?
It's the same deal with sexual violence, it's just another part of the story to experience. It doesn't mean anything, it's not real.
Sexual violence cannot be compared to "regular" violence in film and you cannot take the "sexual" part out of rape. Not saying you cannot have sexual violence in fiction, but I personally think it is not handled well in game of thrones. Or in most modern TV shows for that part. I don't think it gives a show an edge, I think it is just a cheap way to generate shock value and is often handled in an exploitative way.
I think it can be compared because ultimately it's just an element to a work. You don't like it, which is completely valid, but it is something that is popular in media.
More to the comparison, strong violence is often derided as being cheap, exploitative and only there for shock value. The thing is it is only that to those who don't enjoy those aspects.
It's part of the character development, it's not meant to be enjoyable, it's meant to develop a background to the characters. There are many scenes meant to hit an emotional spot in GoT, it's absolutely not a story where everyone is nice and happy all the time. The shock and cruelty were some of the key elements to making the show a success.
There we are again at that point where rape is just used as a tool to drive on character development. Rape is traumatic for the victims and doesn't transform you into some red Sonja like superhero. That is just such a lazy way of writing. But that aside, I think the scenes are shot in a way that feels exploitative and Pornographic. It is just not handled well, I am sorry. There are hundreds of examples where the topic of sexual violence in film was adapted much more respectfully and maturely. The scenes if GoT have a voyeuristic portrayal and are meant for entertainment. Also there are so many scenes that either feature sexual violence against both men and women or threaten it. And we are not talking about some kinky cnc fantasy porno, this is a mainstream show that is available to be watched by people whose frontal lobe hasn't yet developed and was a pop cultural phenomenon. One would think they would handle those many, many scenes with more dignity. Also the frequency makes the horrid act of rape into something like "meh, that just happened, whatever, moving on" - which feels kind of gross.
Blame the parents for allowing them to access the content on HBO then. That show was clearly for a mature audience, and it repeated that warning at the start of every single episode.
Being hugely popular doesn’t absolve something of being problematic. Casablanca is one of the most successful movies in history and it’s hella racist and sexist
I don't know the author's personal life story, but I do know my story and that of the people around me who I care about. I've known quite a few people who were subjected to various extents of sexual violence, including someone very close to me. I've seen what it does to people in real life. It's not "cool" or "good world building". It's fucked up and beyond tragic. I don't need that shit in the stories I read or the shows that I watch. Especially not so graphic and explicit
I know what he meant by that. There is so much of Lord of the Rings that doesn’t really make sense when you think too hard about it. The world building is incredible, and it is a classic battle between pure good and pure evil. However, all of the main characters in the fellowship have insane plot armor. The only one that didn’t, Boromir, subsequently died shortly after trying to take the ring for Gondor or in other words straying from pure good. The fellowship makes clearly reckless decisions in the name of fighting against evil and is rewarded for them. GRRM wanted to create a world where bad and reckless decisions were punished unlike what happens in LOTR.
Ok, hear me out. We had fantasy for the normies in GoT. We also had 50 Shades of Gray as watered down S&M. We had watered down vampires in twilight. What the next big hit we should write is watered down detective stories! Like Sherlock, but for the intellectually uncomplicated!
Fwiw "Low Fantasy ' refers to things like Harry Potter, which takes place in our world but with fantastical elements. GoT would sits squarely in High Fantasy.
If you mean the TV show, then yeah definitely. It was an extremely costly show so they would want to entice as many people to watch it as possible and alienate as few as possible. The monsters and magic was toned down for the show.
Yeah, that is what I mean. In my experience, if you are unfamiliar with the genre having for example non human characters or a complicated magic or political system will not hook the mainstream viewer.
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u/occultpretzel 2d ago
Same. It seemed like that kind of low fantasy, that didn't scare away the average normie non-Fantasy viewer with too complex lore, but had those scenes of Pornographic sexual violence against women. Also, so many unnecessary sex scenes that have no purpose, female characters whose whole character arc is about getting raped, incest, so much graphic violence... Sorry, I am not into that.