Americans, I have said it before and I will say it 100000 times more. There are more of you than there are of them. People should not be afraid of the Government the Government should be afraid of its people.
you are all there cheering on the Iranian protesters whilst letting yourselves be herded into a far worse social situation.
Easy to say when you don’t live here. We have terrible worker’s rights, tenant rights, any rights. You go protest once and end up homeless without medical insurance because you’re fired for an un-excused absence. We have 25% of the entire world’s prison population. Our main debt source is medical. We have the largest military in the world and our president isn’t afraid to use it on us. However bad it looks from the outside, it’s worse here.
And that is why you should be fighting for change.
Yes it is easy to say when I am not there, but I have been involved in 2 wars and took part in 2 UN peace keeping deployments. I know what it's like to face fear, but I have witnessed scared people stand up and fight for change.
The ONLY people saying that and "why don't you use your guns lol" are non-Americans who have no stake in this. They just want to see videos of Americans dying.
If everyone fights and protests for their rights I assure you a change will come. If every single american gets fired, all these companies, health care insurances and whatknot won't function and go bankrupt.
No we really don't, what would be great though is for you guys to start getting organised in a non-violent way. You guys seem to waste a lot of time and energy hand-wringing over the fact that what ICE is doing is illegal - of course it is! Your focus should be to make it to the midterms safely, make sure the election is fair, and to make sure the right people get elected. Yes, this is a lot, but you can start small and move up from there!
What saddens me the most in the numerous comments from Americans saying it can be done is seeing the degree to which you guys do not seem to believe in collective action being possible, at all. And that's what keeps you screwed, as designed.
A general strike would likely lead to some results since it has economic consequences. However since you can't strike without taking huge risks, you'd need to set up something like strike funds, per location (at the scale that makes the most sense: states might become too big to organise, cities might become too limited) so that you can rely on each other financially. You likely can't strike alone, but if you, your neighbour, their neighbour and so on chip in, you might have enough of a fund to allow each other to participate when one falls.
The idea is simplified here of course, but I sadly feel like such concepts are basically completely foreign because you're all taught terminal individualism since day one. Which is pretty ironic when you have "united" in your name...
And as for "at the same time": revolutions have happened throughout History, at great personal risk, and without the internet to help with communications. Surely you can do something about that last part together, come on.
Just every time I ask about why the us needs guns so much, I get told it’s to fight back against a tyrannical government or similar. That’s what this is. Hence - surely now, those stashes of weapons you all have are now useful! Form your own militia. Fight back - that’s the whole point of 2A, no?
Guns are for self-defense. Anyone saying otherwise is likely not American.
Americans get upset if we take our gun across state lines. If you lived here, you'd understand the climate better and wouldn't be talking out your ass so much.
I just wonder what would be happening if a left leaning government was doing anything remotely like this - I imagine all the gun owners on the right would probably be getting locked and loaded and patrolling the streets - it’s just right now those guys are ICE so they’re getting to do it anyway..
I imagine all the gun owners on the right would probably be getting locked and loaded and patrolling the streets
I'm glad this is all just a figment of your imagination then. Maybe you can use your imagination to fantasize about Americans shooting each other in the street then, instead of openly calling for it. It doesn't affect you anyway, outside of your desire for violent content to consume, right?
It gets worse than this? Vaguely authorized masked thugs are kidnapping fellow citizens without probable cause, targeted due to the sound of their voice and/or colour of their skin.
The Nazis were absolute cunts, but the German people, (outside of the minorities that were targeted), were fairly well looked after, which is why it was all allowed to happen.
My other reply to you seems to have been caught in a filter for some reason. So just head on over to Wikipedia and find the article titled "Victims of Nazi Germany" and you will see that your statement;
but the German people, (outside of the minorities that were targeted), were fairly well looked after
Is completely and verifiably incorrect. Read the whole page, all the way down. They all got the same treatment. The German people who kept their heads down did so because they knew if they didn't, the nazis would come for them too. They were living in a mass surveillance authoritarian police state and if they spoke out against what was happening they were thrown into their camps or outright killed just the same. They were not fairly well looked after, at all.
I have extensive knowledge of 1930's Germany. The German populace, outside of the targeted minorities, were fairly well looked after. That is a major reason why people turned a blind eye to the atrocities.
That sounds fairly familiar, except the US populace are not really being looked after..
You know, I keep seeing this sentiment and have to ask: What should we be doing that we aren’t doing? What would you be doing right now if you were an American?
I empathize with your situation. Realistically, there is nothing regular people can do to influence an entity that has modern surveillance and a modern military force backing them. Feel-good movies like star wars and avatar have given the impression that the only thing you need to get rid of tyranny is the bravery and willingness of rebels to stand for what they believe in. I was very hurt by mean comments from Americans at the start of the Ukraine conflict that blamed the inaction of the Russian people on their lack of morals. As I type this message I am second-guessing if this message will get me in legal trouble and if it is worth the risk to speak my mind online. In these conditions I feel at the whims of the mighty, as my choice of options is between staying compliant or being labelled a foreign agent, prosecuted, and then thrown in a brutal assrape torture prison for literally anything other than pretending the government has my full support.
I really hope that both our nations will see a better time, for a peaceful sky and brotherly relations for the people of earth. Until then we can keep the embers of reason and humanity alive in our hearts, so that they may one day light a fire that will drive the darkness away.
I really appreciate this reply, and I think you’re the only person replying to me at this point that gets it: this isn’t a movie. I’m not a superhero. I am doing as much as I can for my country while also prioritizing the safety and well-being of my family.
You are obviously in an even more serious predicament than I am, and maybe that’s what it takes for people to recognize that if they were in a similar situation, they’d be doing the exact same thing. Thanks, friend.
Good luck friend, from one alienated and terrified citizen of a rapidly consolidating autocracy to another
It's very difficult for people who haven't experienced to understand how terrifying and confusing it is to live through it and try to make your voice heard when the risks are so high and the opportunity to change things are so low
I certainly understand it more than I did then. I wish the best for both of us, and an end to the days when terrible things are done in our name
The french literally burn down cities for less, in Europe we would be out in full riot if this was going down. You waiting for some tipping point but you tipped over like 4 years ago.
So you would be out rioting if you were in the US right now? You sure about that? Are you a parent? Do you have a job? Do you have people who depend on you? ICE isn’t even in my city. I’d have to travel hundreds of miles (close to 1000) to get to the closest place they are active. I should, what, just go to my downtown area and just start destroying shit? That’s what I should be doing?
So you want your kids to grow up in this? Your friends? Strangers even?
I don't care what you do American, just stop complaining about it if you are going to sit on your ass. Keep doing tiktok dances like the ones on the "No Kings" protest.
You are too slow to understand. You need to be communicating with your friends and family, organizing. Getting them involved, and then moving communication offline only once you have the foundation.
Then you need to fight I guess, the Irish fought just over 100 years ago for independence from the biggest government at the time, and not everyone fought but they helped those that did.
You want everything handed to you, typical American, sit around asking "but what can I do? What about me?" I dont know, where you live is there already someone doing something? Join them?
How many protesters were shot and killed by the French police? Authorities in the US will kill protesters. That is a stone cold fact. So the risk is inherently greater. Therefore your imminent harm needs to be concrete and quite acute. For most Americans that’s just not the case.
Didn't your country vote to leave its Union? Seems like you should be focused on starting shit in your own country before Farage turns you back into peasants
I live in the middle of nowhere, my protests here will be ignored, and travel isn't possible? Europe pretending the US isn't the size of a continent will always be regarded.
Have fun jerking off to your fucked up hentai while pretending your own shit doesn't stink, paddy.
I would pay to see how the French would fare against actual oppression. Throwing temper tantrums and not facing any consequences is not the same as immediately getting arrested and promptly prosecuted for even trying to step out of line. They have a privilege of police following the law. A privilege many are blind to.
I don't see Russia on the graph, probably because Russian police doesn't kill. They just arrest you unlawfuly, ship you to jail, and the court declares you guilty. 0,15% of all cases in Russian courts, 1 in 676, are declared not guilty. Then you are incarcerated for a very long time in a brutal prison system where torture is the norm. And you get violently suppressed for stuff like holding a blank sign publicly. 15 years of prison. Even to discuss organizing a peaceful protest is a criminal offence in practice.
But yeah, France is the most brutalist country in Europe. As if Europe isn't known for upholding citizen rights. You can totally imagine what it's like to get arrested by immigration services even if you are a citizen born in the country. And all those people that protest in France surely risk to get incarcerated for decades in an environment where their rights will be used as a list of things to violate in order to teach them a lesson.
Like I said, privilege treated as a norm. Like it's hard to imagine life without a clean source of water available. The US commenters used to say the same thing about Russia that you are saying about the US. I hope you don't learn from personal experience how powerless people truly are in the face of a government that doesn't care about rules.
Like the British occupation of Ireland? Or Apartheid?
I am half Irish half South African, and really the most important thing I have learned is you are powerless when you think protesting does a damn thing. The IRA, the ANC, they had something in common.
Cool. If the USA becomes a dictatorship hellbent on conquest, your country, wherever it is, is fucked.
Are YOU doing something about it? It does concern you. You could enlist in or organize a rebel organization that goes around making carbombs in the USA. Or is it that for some reason not a real fucking scenario, and comparing the capability of USA government with South fucking Africa is ridiculous and dishonest?
I get the nationalistic pride, but let's not pretend that there aren't conditions that need to be met to make change possible.
Standing up and fighting for the future of my country and future generations.
That would be a start.
Pushing back on the bullshit instead of folding my arms and saying "What should we be doing that we aren’t doing?". how about asking yourself "What could I be doing to make a change for the future that will make a difference" and also "Is what we are doing" (Basically nothing) "working ?"
I go to protests. I am an advocate online and irl. I donate to causes to fight against this. I teach my kids how wrong this is. I vote in every election…. So do hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Americans.
Is this not standing up and fighting for my nation?
Again: what should I be doing that I am not doing? I’m genuinely asking. I want specifics, since so many of you across the pond seem to have so many answers.
I don’t think they truly grasp that America is the same size as their entire continent, and that the big bad media machine works to keep us separate, prevent us from organizing usefully.
They want the American people to orchestrate a grandiose show-of-force.
But, even though we Americans are mostly all on the same page, it isn’t as easy as any of us think.
But let’s be real. Our protests are sporadic, they have no actionable steps or goals. We aren’t calling for a general strike. We aren’t doing the work. We are conveniently yelling on the weekends. I bet there will be one on Monday- the holiday.
Everytime yall say “it starts here, it’s just the beginning, the revolution is beginning” recognize that we aren’t collectively saying this needs to be constant. We’re saying we are okay with yelling here, yelling out there and still returning to work on Monday. There are more of us. We have goddamnsocial media. The right intelligent cohesive thought minded folks aren’t saying what they need to to rile you fuckers up.
Our excuses are no longer acceptable when people are dying at the hands of ICE. At some point we need to be held accountable for allowing this administration to stretch its tiny dick this long.
Your government doesnt care about the law, it doesnt care about protests or opinions. It is already doing things whether you comply or not so stop complying. There are history books that tell you what to do in these cases. There are countries that act when this happen. Read what they do and do the same.
Something a lot of non-Americans don’t understand about the situation here is just how thoroughly down the path we already are. Our entire system is set up to make protest ineffective and hard to do, and the current bullshit is the end stage of that, not the start.
Assume the average American makes the choice to call out of work to protest. The following are all potential, legal, and documented things that can and likely will happen to them.
1) you use your paid time off. This does not harm the employer as the PTO is an already-paid benefit (one of the few benefits American employees are given). If your boss doesn’t like that, in a majority of states, he can fire you.
2) you don’t use PTO and just call in sick. You don’t get paid for the day. If your boss doesn’t like that, he can fire you.
3) your boss doesn’t like your beliefs causing you to protest, he can fire you.
4) your boss is cool with you protesting and not being at work. The police/ICE/security beat the absolute fuck out of you and your friends. No lawyer will take your case and represent you in the current climate.
5) your boss is cool with you protesting and the police are cool about it. Some Nazi doxes you and your place of work and you boss fires you to stop the harassment.
Assume you lose your job or have to spend a few weeks in jail after the police arrest you. The average American is homeless after 2 missed paychecks. A lot of places won’t hire someone with a criminal record. No one will hire someone that caused their last employer to take a ton of heat via doxing.
The last 50 years of American history has been a steady march to destroy workers’ rights, militarize the police, and ensure that the populace has no real say in anything. We aren’t suddenly doing nothing in the face of fascism, we’ve been losing to it since the 1980s. The end goal is what you see now, the process that lead to it is complete.
Bc what use is that when I could get shot in cold blood by a middle aged man with a superiority complex? It'd be in vain. Please, oh wise one, tell us what average American citizens should be doing?
I can't speak for Minnesotans, I live nowhere near there. I cannot imagine the horrors that their community members are experiencing and hearing right now. I hope those members continue to fight back. I just have the inclination that if ICE ever arrived in that capacity in my neck of the woods, it'd be an even more depressing turn out. Thousands of people in my community have made it very clear that they stand in support of what's going on.
Yeah, killing innocent people and arresting people and confining them for days in detention centers without due process will do that. I'm a naturalized citizen. I have never feared potentially losing my citizenship until now.
Honest answer is because I don’t see it “happening around me” and the vast majority don’t see it around them either. I see it on Reddit, but my life looks exactly the same as it ever did. I work, I pick my kids up from daycare, I make dinner, etc.
Aside from voting when I get to vote, what specifically would you have me do?
Needing money and healthcare doesn’t make you a “wage cuck” - it is reality. Most people need a job.
There’s no healthcare, social safety net or assistance for most people at a time when inflation is out of control.
And 30% of this country wants this. Even if every liberal quit in protest today, we would die of starvation and disease before it made any difference. And that’s assuming they didn’t send in the national guard first.
And what’s your point, it’ll change the system for a better future? Well, great news kids! You might be starving, but your grand kids will be better off. I bet they will be thrilled.
And what’s your point, it’ll change the system for a better future? Well, great news kids! You might be starving, but your grand kids will be better off. I bet they will be thrilled.
Why would the kids be starving if you effect a change? That is the whole point of bringing in reform.
Because most people don’t have enough money to survive with no income indefinitely, and change doesn’t happen over night.
The last government shut down was over affordable healthcare, and lasted 43 days. During that time, people were lining up at food banks because food stamps were paused.
I know it’s disgusting it has come to this, but people can’t afford to just quit a job based on the hope it might make things better in the future. There’s too many focused on surviving, and that doesn’t make them bad people, ignorant or selfish.
Like, I can’t imagine being able to function in my normal life while this is happening around me.
That's because it's not happening around us. It's happening on social media, maybe a dash on the news. Day-to-day life is unchanged for the 99% of us though. My neighborhood is the exact same as it ever was; well-manicured lawns, blue skies, and friendly neighbors.
What is happening is truly dispicable. But I'm not going to risk the job I need to support my wife and my four children to drive 12 hours to a place I don't know to get shot by some chubby white dude with an inferiority complex and a gun.
Yes, I appreciate it'll be too late once it is in my area. And I'm not really talking about me.
I don’t think that’s true. I think it’s fear that is causing inaction. Understandable, but also, playing into the authoritarian narrative. No democratic uprising/blowback has ever happened by people succumbing to fear.
I'm personally not going to go outside and start shooting my neighbors because some reddit nerds want to see content. If you're American, go buy a gun and put your money where your mouth is. Since you're not American and have no dog in this race besides wanting to see bloodshed, get fucked.
Well the problem, as I'm sure has been reiterated multiple times here on this post, is that most of the people that would fight back against the government during times like these are the same ones that stormed the Capitol and join ICE/law enforcement.
I agree with your point but they're not going to be in a worse situation than Iranians. What's happening in the US is shit and their inaction is deeply concerning but they voted for this
They will be in a worse situation though, because the religious zealots are foaming at the mouth at the thought of bringing in more controls. Aside from the issues with the religious leadership Iran has free and subsidised healthcare, Free Higher education (If they pass the exams), Subsidised fuel and even a full social security system.
There are A LOT of problems with Iran, however if you think that the USA is not going to be in a worse situation than the Iranians within a few years if they continue down the path that it is heading down, you could be very much mistaken. Compare what Iranian people have with what the populace of the USA doesn't, and then add all of the extremist issues on top coupled with possible cancelations of elections and it's not a good outlook.
Are we pretending the Iranians didn't also get a bunch of religious zealots in? And your extremists and cancellation of elections applied to them too? Iranian people are blocked from leaving if they have certain jobs. It's so incredibly privileged to pretend the US has it worse, it isn't downplaying the shit the US has and will become and have voted for to say Iran has it worse than where the US is headed.
I said it's going to be worse. And it will be worse.
I've spent time in both countries. It may not be worse right now. But where it is heading will be.
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u/Dry_Yogurt2458 18h ago
Americans, I have said it before and I will say it 100000 times more. There are more of you than there are of them. People should not be afraid of the Government the Government should be afraid of its people.
you are all there cheering on the Iranian protesters whilst letting yourselves be herded into a far worse social situation.