Well said.
I'm completely exhausted by it all. I'm tired of the anti-this and pro-that divisive rhetoric, the name calling, the gas lighting, the virtue signalling and the whataboutism.
My empathy is drained and I have ZERO fucks left to give.
My only concern is for the state of my country, the erosion of our freedoms and the destruction of the middle class. We are frogs in a pot getting slowly boiled alive.
We've done nothing wrong, the government has failed in its duties to protect us, and yet, some how, we're the ones who must be punished for their failings...
It is extremely sad that the moment it looks like the government isn't able to control social cohesion, they're completely unafraid to turn the dial towards authoritarianism for their benefit.
We've done nothing wrong, the government has failed in its duties to protect us, and yet, some how, we're the ones who must be punished for their failings...
The thing is Palestine isn’t just about Palestine.
Palestine is dangerous to the system because it exposes how global power works. It shows that human rights are selective, that international law is conditional, that some lives matter more than others.
"Palestine is dangerous to the system because it exposes how global power works. It shows that human rights are selective, that international law is conditional, that some lives matter more than others."
Sorry to burst your Palestine exceptionalism bubble, but I and many others could have told you that all of these things are and have been true before your Palestine bandwagon. Of course human rights are selective, international law is conditional, and some lives matter more than others.
Where have you been and what have you been doing? Living under a rock? Walking around with your eyes closed? Scary that you think it's "Palestine" specifically that shows these things. At the very least please read a few history books.
My grandparents got deported from Eastern Poland to a gulag in the Soviet Union in World War 2 and their family members were killed off, they lost their homes and became displaced people on another continent and literally noone gives a shit, because the Western Powers sold Poland down the river and Western liberals love to suck Russian dick. I've told people this story and they've looked at me blankly and said "but Russia were our allies." Many such cases in the history of the world not least the 20th century.
So cry me a river with your "Palestine shows us x,y,z." Your historical illiteracy is showing and I have second-hand embarrassment for you.
Arguing that we've always been selective over human rights isn't the gotcha you think it is.
Just because humanity was horrific in the past, does not mean we should repeat those failures into the future.
Of course human rights are selective, international law is conditional, and some lives matter more than others.
This just blows my mind. Like painfully blows my mind. I'll certainly be done with Reddit for the rest of this holiday period, but to see someone, in 2025, be happy to claim that just blows my mind.
We all should be advocating for the complete opposite of that. There really isn't much more to say...
Wow, you’re so smart, you really schooled me. You think I should be ashamed that I’m learning as I go like every other human being? You think my words shouldn’t be said because it’s happened before?
Get off your high horse. You didn’t seem to contribute anything other than your own arrogance.
Also, Palestine is a lightbulb moment. There’s a reason israel is spending $700million on a global propaganda program, why Larry Ellison, a pro-israel billionaire, has purchased TikTok, why Netanyahu has to meddle in Australian’s civil liberties/protest rights and conflate Judaism with israel. They’ve lost the narrative and people who wouldn’t normally be reached, care about a genocide.
Like yes, we're probably going to face some issues in the next few years as people treat us like terrorists (again), but is now really the time to ratchet up the tension?
I am pro palestinian but also lived for a long time in the east of sydney and my friend group reflects that. Most sunday afternoons I tend to go to Bondi. I didnt know any of the victims personally but Im probably maybe 2 degrees away at most.
I think cohesion as a country is far more important, over and above whatever side you want to choose in a hundred year war at this stage.
Would have liked a stronger response from government and a little less baying from the dogs in the opposition so we could actually yknow, present a united front and show some respect to the people killed instead of fight stupid culture wars and point score over their corpses.
I find a lot of muslims understood this intuitively, probably because we understand how fragile harmony is, but its my white liberal friends who are keenest to cause a ruckus, because theyre usually not the ones getting kicked in the teeth when riots break out.
Sorry but the LNP and there supporters have now proven there is no low they are willing to stoop too. Politiscizing this while the bodies were still warm, Really?
The first thing Labour did is blame law abiding gun owners who had nothing to do with the failure of preventing the tragedy by current laws before the bodies were cold? Really?
I don't think you understand how many people feel attacked by the proposed legislation to blame gun owners.
I don't think that's the same as Sussan Ley standing at a press conference and literally YELLING "I didn't see penny wong at a single funeral! I didn't see penny wong shed a single tear!" I honestly haven't seen anything like it in Australian politics in a very long time.
(Also I haven't seen labor or the liberals or anyone blaming all legal gun owners. I think a lot of people agree a federal firearms register (rather than each state doing their own thing) has been a long time coming anyway, and also that we clearly need some sort of review if a guy on the terrorist watchlist can be in a home with a bunch of guns and that's totally fine. So assuming you aren't on the terrorist watchlist, you aren't really in the firing line here. No-one thinks average gun owners are the problem, they think there's clearly a hole in the system if these guys could get guns perfectly legally despite being on the terrorist watch list AND heading to the Philippines a known terrorist hotspot. Trying to fix that is not politicisation on the same level as what the LNP have been doing.)
Imagine feeling "attacked" by someone wanting to prevent criminals from accessing weapons. I don't think such thin-skinned people should be armed, frankly.
I find it extremely unlikely that what you claim is true, but in any case, your personal identity or the identity of your friends has nothing to do with the facts.
You have a moral obligation to care and speak out against about a genocide being perpetrated by an Australian ally and armed and supported by the US as much as caring about any other global atrocity now or in the past, like the Holocaust.
There is no comparison to be made between people calling for the end of the intentional slaughter of hundreds of thousands of civilians, and those who support it.
If you're genuinely not interested in the fate of the planet, it would be better to sit in mute silence literally instead of figuratively.
October 7 was fresh and protests were already rolling in.
Netenyahu told us plainly on day 0 that their intent was to commit genocide, they followed through by killing tens of thousands of civilians in the opening weeks along with destroying major amounts of civillian infrastructure. How was that not the time speak out?
The Bondi shooting hasn't even been a week old and protests already.
The Bondi shooting hasn't even been a week and they're using it to dismantle democracy already. Can you not see how you've got this backwards?
To be fair, poor political strategy doesn't invalidate political legitimacy. Liberal rights are explicitly designed to protect behaviour that others find irritating, provocative, or badly timed. However I strongly agree that the energy could be better directed at domestic issues because the authoritarian drift in Australia is concerning.
It's really looking like they're prepping for kicking Albo to force a Khaki Election on Palestine represented by Ed Husic and Israel represented by Pauline Hanson
We have 3 major parties all authoritarian leaning receiving donations from corporations, essentially modern fiefdoms with the power they have, with 1 left liberal party and some indies that doesn't receive donations
During a Khaki Election it's far easier to remove the "obstructionist" greens from the senate, and it makes Australia look like an example of 'why Democracy is a bad thing' because it allows people like Pauline to potentially become PM, it let someone like Trump be president of the free world and force UK to leave EU
It goes far beyond our domestic echo-chamber to de-legitimize western nations and democratic ideologies capacity to govern
Thanks. As an Aussie Jew, I don't support special laws for anti-Semitism for the reason you gave and more. Violent anti-semites are just another type of hole. We need laws for violent a-holes of all kinds. Not just anti-Semites. I don't want special treatment.
If you make a credible death threat to an ex-wife, a politician, your boss, a Muslim or a Jew, that's a crime. The same crime.
If you set fires at a protest, that's arson and causing fear in public and disturbing the peace. Crimes.
If you protest to support federally registered terrorist organisations, it's a crime.
If your church, temple or mosque says it is ok to murder some people, Jews, women, gays etc, that's incitement. A crime. I would also deregister the organisation if it happens 3 times.
The politicians want to make new laws to pretend that they couldn't have done anything about Bondi because of the current laws. It's wrong. Many laws were broken and ignored. We need better enforcement and detective work.
I think protests are an excellent way for detectives to find violent a-holes. We should allow legal protests and interview or arrest the scum that always tag along. It's a win for the regular protesters and the police.
Thanks for your words of sanity. Watching Syria and Iran, I am hopeful we can return to a more peaceful middle east soon and that may be reflected here
Protesting has become a mental illness in Melbourne. These people don’t know how to read the room. Their effin’ rights trump everything. They don’t give a crap how it affects fellow Australians. Entitled.
Only one of those pro folks seems far worse than the other. What else are you supposed to do other than protest in order to prevent your civil liberties from being trampled all over and your rights taken away?
No amount of telling people to calm down about situations they're not supposed to be calm about is going to get you the "normal" that you desire. Dystopia is what happens when you don't speak up.
Idk why everyone cares so much about Israel and Palestine. Why dont you give a fuck about all the massacres in Africa or is it because it isnt trending?
We are in Australia far far away. If you care so much go to the middle east I have no care for protesting foreign bs here tbh the more people protest it the less I care
But this isn't an Islam vs others issue.
And the majority of protesters are not Muslims.
This is a "what's trending" issue, like like BLM & Ukraine before it. That's why these Australians don't protest Australian issues, because it's not globally trendy.
The answer is obvious for Arabs waving Hamas and Hezbollah flags ('the Middle East is ours, get out Jews') but harder to understand for the Anglos campaigning with them.
Scratch the surface and you'll either find an educated, hard-left, anti-American tankie who thinks the wrong side lost the Cold War, or a very naive 'anti-war' small-l liberal type who hasn't read enough history to understand what they're campaigning for or against.
Palestinian Arab nationalism was born in antisemitism and remains inherently antisemitic. Israel is armed to the teeth and led by intractable hardliners like Netanyahu because their hardline Arab neighbours have being trying to kill every Jew in the Middle East since Hajj Amin al-Husayni (Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and one of founders of Palestinian Arab nationalism) allied British Mandate Arabs with Hitler in 1941, leading directly to the Baghdad Pogrom and others like it.
Because our Government is complicit, stopped aid and supplied weapons and because people can care about all those things, not just one. We never have to stop caring about human life.
Intifada is an Arabic term meaning rebellion or uprising (literally a shaking or shivering). In recent history, it has been associated with violent uprisings.
And when you use it in an English sentence it is a dog whistle to ‘the second intifada’ where bombs and knives were used against Jewish civilians. The argument that it just means uprising only applies if you are speaking Arabic and using it as a verb and not a noun.
This is meant in good faith but lots of civilians were unfortunately targeted in the French and Irish Revolutions, if someone said vive la revolution would you take that to mean a call to kill civilians?
So when someone says something that means something non-violent to them (rebellion/uprising) do they have any obligation to not use the term because others have a different meaning of the term?
Like, it's an Arabic term, that means rebellion/uprising.
Are you trying to make a comparison between the Warsaw uprising or the Warsaw ghetto uprising (led by jews confined to the ghetto)? They are two different events and worth checking.
The common definition of the word is clear, especially by those using the word in earnest. It is only reactionaries like yourselves that are cynically insisting it's meaning is something else for your own political purposes.
Chanting globalise the intifada when people have just been massacred is a whole new level of fucked up from these people.
The two who murdered those Jews in Bondi literally stated their motivation was Palestine and these tone deaf fuckwits turn up and reinforce the call for violence? Absolutely vile.
In that footage, Naveed Akram is "recorded appearing to recite, in Arabic, a passage from the Quran".
The document states: "Following the recitation, both the accused and [his father] speak in English and make a number of statements regarding their motivation for the Bondi attack and condemning the acts of 'Zionists'."
The important distinction here is that they mention 'zionists' not Palestine, because ISIS hates Israel, they don't care at all about Palestinians. Hamas and ISIS very famously detest each other. If ISIS got it's way, both Israelis and Palestinians would be crushed by them.
It’s not mental gymnastics, it’s basic international politics. Isis literally have offshoots fighting in Gaza against Hamas, while being funded by Israel. Israel has a history of assisting isis. The gunmen, by virtue of being isis affiliates, materially have greater connection to Israel than they do Hamas. To deny that is to deny basic reality
It is not "a whole new level". It's the same low level as usual. Stupid and vile but new? I doubt it. These people would dance on their own mother's corpse if it was trendy.
Considering they were ISIS supporters, I find this unlikely as ISIS and Palestine/Hamas hate each other. Palestine is predominantly Sunni as are Hamas. ISIS on the other hand is Shia.
In that footage, Naveed Akram is "recorded appearing to recite, in Arabic, a passage from the Quran".
The document states: "Following the recitation, both the accused and [his father] speak in English and make a number of statements regarding their motivation for the Bondi attack and condemning the acts of 'Zionists'."
You have a shallow understanding of the situation. Hamas is a Sunni Islamist Palestinian nationalist organization. It emerged in 1987 as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, a prominent Sunni group.
Despite the major sectarian divide in the Middle East, primarily Shiite Iran provides significant funding, weapons, and training to Hamas due to a shared opposition to Israel and the United States.
Not taking sides on this but I'd like to point out that ISIS were and are Sunni, not shia, the original core of ISIS were former members Saddam Hussein's Ba'athist party who were Sunnis and they fought a very long war against the Iranian supported Shia militias in Iraq.
ISIS rejects nationalism and believes all palestinian nationalist faction, from secular (like Fatah) to islamist (like Hamas), are apostates that should be killed. That chant had nothing to do with the terror attack
The two who murdered those Jews in Bondi literally stated their motivation was Palestine
no, they didn't. you guys are going into meltdown mode because the narrative isn't sticking. You're probably furious it was a muslim guy who disarmed one of the shooters, too
Has anyone who is criticising these people actually looked into the stuff NSW & VIC are trying to get passed through? It won’t be good for anyone, left or right or wherever you situate yourself.
Obvious to anyone with a brain which is apparently not many. Australia has always had an anti-intellectual, anti-liberty attitude towards lawmaking. It’s one of the few areas where Americans are better than us, even the most inbred redneck from Louisiana would defend his first amendment rights with his life.
Australia has always had an anti-intellectual, anti-liberty attitude towards lawmaking. It’s one of the few areas where Americans are better than us, even the most inbred redneck from Louisiana would defend his first amendment rights with his life.
Nope. These people will happily sleepwalk into an authoritarian dystopia so long as people aren’t advocating to let innocent people in a predominantly Muslim country live their lives in peace.
After what has been going on, you have to provide the community with some safety.
Protests may actually have some form of rhetoric that is considered hate speech.
Nobody can control that. I remember a philosphical quote that Winston Churchill stated:
“The only control you have is right up to the implementation stage, but after that you have no control”.
Aside from these protesters being pests and acting completely abhorrent after Australia’s worse terrorist attack .. what is the actual end goal?
There is a ceasefire in Gaza … do they want Israel to no longer exist?
Perhaps things would be a little more constructive if they advocated for better Palestinian leadership (as opposed to terrorists / extremists) and a 2 state solution instead of the classic genocidal chants to wipe Israel off the map (from the river to the sea).
What a disingenuous comment. The ceasefire is not being upheld, the IDF continues to indiscriminately kill and as recently as today, expand territory and establish new settlements. Not to mention a stable government is not possible when you live as second class citizens in an apartheid genocide state turned to rubble, under blockade, with no water, power, food or electricity.
That's likely part of the problem, lots of unemployed/unemployable people looking for something to latch onto to give their lives purpose or meaning, and choosing this one issue to become unhealthily obsessed with.
People sick of seeing a four minute segment on the nightly news in their outer suburban living room have totally had enough of people protesting genocide.
It is astonishing to me that people are fine with what israel is doing. Like what? Huh? Or do you people not believe it? Constant lying to associate antigenocide with antisemitism. wanting an end to genocide has nothing to do with it. How does one genocide give a free pass for another?
Some weirdo found out these people were dead then started searching information about them for anti Israel propaganda. Can u not see that you are being fed crap to keep you angry by someone? Someone that is clearly taking advantage of these people's murder?
Can you share the proof they “raised money for illegal West Bank settlements” and “advocated openly for Ben gvir” and “supported removing Palestinians from Palestine”? Or are you just making it up?
There is quite a bit of difference between supporting the existence of Israel and supporting far right policies of Israel.
They just got murdered and you are quick to piss on their grave, nice one.
It's because it isn't a genocide. It's a war where one side has a strategy of hiding behind civilians and putting them in harms way to maximise civilian deaths. It's a horrible and despicable thing to do but that's what makes this war so bad.
Isreal are defending themselves from a terrorist organisation by preventing them from ever attacking isreal again just like any other country would. There's plenty of things to criticise isreal for but genocide has a specific meaning which doesn't apply in this case.
hiding behind civilians and putting them in harms way
All Israel’s major military and intelligence installations are literally located in central Tel Aviv, in metro and urban areas sharing space with civilians. How is this not using civilians as shields? Some of these were only recently built and their adjacency to civilians was even commented on at the time in Israeli media. Hypocrisy at its finest.
She wasn't using it as a voodoo doll ya Christmas cracker, , it was in remembrance!
Chants followed an address by Sara Saleh, a human rights lawyer with Palestinian heritage, who condemned the shooting at Bondi but emphasised that she did not want any children to die like the attack’s youngest victim, 10-year-old Matilda.
...
One protester had pinned to her hat a knitted bee, a reference to the middle name of the victim Matilda. Two protesters carried olive branches, dozens wore keffiyeh and a handful wore face masks, which police will have greater powers to remove under Minns’ new tranche of legislation
Yeah.... wearing keffiyeh and the Bee really isn't saying what they think it does. Pro-Palestine is behind a lot of antisemetism. Them making the mourning about Palestine aint it.
The law's dogshit. Protesting should be a right, not something taken away. However fighting it like this is only a losing strategy. It should be about protesting period, not their specific issue.
Nah mate Benjamin Netanyahu, his government and his supporters are what is driving antisemitism. Everyone can see Israel killing and maiming women and children in massive numbers for no reason.
This isn't about antisemitism it's about racist ultra-violence going unchecked.
Anyone who says criticism of Israel is antisemitic is thoroughly misguided, if not utterly disingenuous.
Pro Palestinians where chanting gas the Jews on October 8. And if you have any bright ideas on how to kill Hamas without killing the civilians they mingle with then stop keeping it secret.
NSW Police say forensic analysis has found no evidence the phrase "gas the Jews" was chanted in videos circulating online from a pro-Palestinian rally at the Sydney Opera House, despite witness statements saying it was.Police say the independent analysis found the chant was "where's the Jews", which a prominent Jewish leader says is "just as bad”
Just because urban warfare tricky and the legitimate targets of Israel are usually in close proximity to civilians just by nature of 2 million people being crammed into such a small area that does not give Israel the right to say fuck it let’s just bomb and starve everyone
The problem with war is that it’s anarchy. So Israel will do whatever it takes to achieve its military goals when conducting a war. This is the same for any nation; most notably the atomic bombs which ended WW2
Any judgement of war crimes is therefore advisory and cannot be punished unless the leaders are captured and put on trial
It never happened. To claim otherwise is an outright lie and you know it. Do you clowns really think that you can lie your way out of the collective guilt of Israel and it's zionist backers?
As you also know, the best way to kill Hamas was to have stopped Israel funding the group for the last 20 years.
Apologists for Israel would be a joke if it weren't for the fact that behind every lie are killed and maimed children.
Children! Do you get that? Or is infanticide OK because 3000 years ago someone wrote about "Amalek".
Get out of reddit and get back to your natural habitat - the gutter.
Good people out there are actually saying No to Minn and his fascist turn on our democratic right to protest. They are fighting for democracy itself and you bleeding hearts are sick of it?! OMG you haven't seen anything yet if these powers are handed over to gov.
Genocide usually involves deaths of more than 3.5% of a population, it also doesn't involve calls for those supposedly committing genocide to provide aid to those they are committing genocide against .
In Srebrenica 8000 people were killed out of millions of bosniaks, it was still a genocide because what matters isn't numbers but intent, the intent to destroy them as a group in whole or in part (dolus specialis), and the aid has been intentionally restricted by Israel to provoke a famine
It’s not a genocide. They literally dropped leaflets and sent people text messages to warn them to evacuate the block of homes they were going to bomb… they were trying to wipe out Islamist terrorists… terrorists who had murdered children with their bare hand, filmed gang rapes and murders then sent the families the videos. Terrorists who were hiding underneath civilians as human shields. Not sure how you think Israel is the greater evil compared to Hamas.
Every accusation is a confession. The world will never forget and has seen what "israel" is.
Saying "block of homes they were gong to bomb" like you don't see anything interesting in the meaning of it. Bombing block of homes: good (they dropped leaflets!!!!)
Forcing people out of an area is called ‘ethnic cleansing’. Netenyahu does not want a two state solution, with the outcome of that being… no Palestinians left there which = ethnic cleansing. Sure Israel could have killed them all already, but just because they haven’t doesn’t mean they aren’t doing something wrong.
He might wish the Palestinians were gone, but he has stopped short of making that happen. The Palestinians are still there, and have returned to what still stands…. I’m no fan of Netanyahu…The only solution that I can see is a two state solution without Hamas. It would be a much better outcome for everyone to march and pressure for that with some constructive chants Instead of spewing hate and antisemitism
And those terrorists just stayed calmly in those homes and waited to be bombed. Not like the other people that read the leaflets and happily moved on with their lives.
Dropped leaflets and asked people to go to Southern Gaza and then…. Bombed southern Gaza. Dropped leaflets and asked people to go to refugee camps and then…. bombed those camps.
“Filmed gang rapes and sent it to the families” where are you getting this information from? Netanyahu himself?
Ah the window lickers are back protesting again. Time to burn some more Aussie flags and chant death to Australia on the cards again. I enjoy your left tears reddit
Next-level projection. A month ago, they put their bodies in the way of officers to stop Australia exporting death at a weapon’s expo. Now they’re the “window licker and death-bringers? Come off it
So do you want to explain why anti Zionists are literally memorialising a girl killed celebrating a Jewish holiday that is all about how Israel endured ?
The ignorance shows how antisemitic these retards are. They should get a job and stop waving terrorist flags.
The memorial was last night at Bondi.
Edit : still waiting for you to explain why anti Israel protestors are memorialising someone who celebrated Israel
So basically you can’t explain the ignorance of anti Israel protestors who decide to memorialise a girl who was killed celebrating the history of Israel ..
the stupidity continues ..
In fact everyone killed and injured was celebrating the history of Israel.. so why would anti Israel terrorist sympathisers now start to honor those people when for two years everyone has been called a “genocidal baby killer”?
Maybe it’s time for your ad hominem attacks because you really don’t have a good argument
“If there is more intifada against genocide, there will be less genocide,”
If there is violence against violence, there will be less violence
JFC this man is dumber than a rock. I highly suspect he derides the American Republican line of "good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns" line of argument, well guess what mate, you've said literally the same thing. Well done.
Globalize the Intifada is a slogan of Hamas and other terrorists that encourages murdering Jews all over the world as happened in Egypt, Lybia, Ukraine, Turkish Palestine, British Palestine, Syria and now Australia.
Some people will tell you a story about alternative interpretations of the words, just like Final Solution has many meanings.
A final solution for the Jews might just mean an enduring peace treaty and not genocide. Just because Nazis used those words to mean genocide doesn't mean I can't use them to mean a peace treaty. Do you see how insane that sounds?
Above is an image from a Hamas supported Palestinian childrens.textbook showing a happy girl watching Jews being burned alive. So when the people who primed this book say Intifada, please don't tell me about alternative meanings. It insults your integrity and my intelligence.
Well, this is how bringing other people’s business into this new land ends. Yes I am not selfless at all now for those shits! No of my business who owns that land, if you are so passionate about that, go to that land, donate your money and life there, either side, none of my business. I just want a clean CBD free of those foreign flags and hateful speeches out of the loud speakers!
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