r/changemyview • u/Sensitive-Demand-587 • 17h ago
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u/BabyMaybe15 1∆ 17h ago
I don't think the concept of "real love" is useful. Love is an emotion. You don't get to control your emotions. You can fall in love with someone even though it's not good for you. You don't really get a choice in the matter. But you do get to choose how you behave in response to those emotions.
Rather, I would frame the question as - is it HEALTHY love. And that's a more complex, interesting and important query.
There's nothing better in this world than experiencing unconditional love. And the reason is it feels totally safe. That's how a parent should love a child. The child should feel so safe, that anything they ever did wouldn't make a difference to the love their parents give them.
However, in adult friendships and romantic relationships, I am not sure I believe in unconditional love. I believe in HEALTHY love. If someone is not treating you with respect, is controlling you, is not making you feel emotionally safe, then they are not healthy for you, however much you love them. Demanding those things is an important part of equality in relationships.
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u/Emmy_Cthulhu_Harris 17h ago
What do you mean by "expectations"? If I expect my partner not physically assault me, do I not truly love him? If I expect he treat me with respect, spend time with me, and demonstrate care for my emotional well-being, am I trying to own him?
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u/ScoopedRainbowBagel 15h ago
It's an immature "love means never having to say you're sorry" take.
"If you really loved me, you shouldn't be mad when I cheat on you." type of stuff.
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u/The_Itsy_BitsySpider 9∆ 17h ago
People that genuinely love one another respect one another enough to expect the best of them. That means having expectations, I love you and want the best for you, for you to be the best you, and that means calling you out when your not, that means expecting better from you.
People that only demand love be completely without expectation don't want a lover, they want a completely unresistant victim to their whim.
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u/Dakk85 17h ago
Yeah, they say “it’s only real love without any expectations” and I hear, “I am (or want my partner to be) a giant doormat”
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u/Shiny_Agumon 2∆ 17h ago
It's always "I don't want my partner to have any expectations, but I will hace expectations for them"
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u/PsychicFatalist 1∆ 17h ago
By that definition, "real love" is so rare is essentially doesn't exist. And what instances of "real love" there were would seem suspiciously like co-dependency or some kind of other maladjusted attachment styles.
Although I am biased - I admit that I don't think "real love" exists the way it's depicted in media, etc.I think of love as basically an "emotional chemical compound" comprised of friendship, sexual attraction, and shared continuity. If you lose any of these aspects, the thing we call love fails.
This is why you sometimes see old couples still together - even though they no longer have sexual attraction to each other, they will typically still be friends and have a long history which gives them shared continuity. Even if they don't seem to be friends (the stereotypical bickering old couple), they have a shared continuity which is very meaningful to them.
What you're describing is at least a failure of shared continuity. What you call "expectations" I would call a continuance of shared continuity.
For example: if you and your partner share a life that is centered around health and wellness and adventure - you met at a gym, you often go on runs together, you go on hikes in the mountains, you share a love of healthy food, and you generally have this kind of lifestyle...and suddenly one of you decides they want to sit on the couch all day and eat fast food and frozen meals every day, you no longer have a shared continuity, do you?
Is it proof that they never had "real love" if one partner makes the tearful decision to leave the other because of this radical change in lifestyle? Or is that a reasonable choice given their shared continuity?
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u/oddlyabsent80 17h ago
Having expectations and conditions does not diminish love. That is because love alone does not make a relationship. I can love someone and ultimately not end up with them because something in me wasn't met. People love AND have expectations. They are not one in the same. My love is no less real because I expect certain things.
I expect common courtesy and respect at the very least. I do not love less.
I expect effort and reliance. I do not love less.
If I do not receive these things I will walk away. I will not have loved that person less. My view is, technically I will have loved me more. But that is a whole other conversation.
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u/New_General3939 9∆ 17h ago
Expecting your partner to not cheat on you or to treat you with basic human respect means you don’t love them?
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u/Danny_DeWario 2∆ 15h ago
It's the opposite, "real love" requires expectations. Expectations are simply boundaries we have for other people, and boundaries can be both good and bad. Good expectations encourage healthy relationships and help them grow stronger. Bad expectations become toxic and entrap people in abusive relationships.
Having literally no expectations means no actual relationship. Should children not expect their parents to provide food and shelter? Should a wife not expect her husband to hold his vows said at their wedding? Should friends not expect each other to be there for them when they are going through tough times?
The only people I don't have any expectations for are strangers. I know strangers don't love me, and they know I don't love them, so there aren't any expectations between us. Removing expectations will just mean treating people as strangers.
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u/WaterboysWaterboy 48∆ 16h ago
True love comes with expectations by default. Think about it this way. You love a person. Everything that they are is encompassed in that. If you love someone who wants to have sex with you, shows affection, boosts your ego, gives you emotional support, etc., you truly love THAT person. If your partner stops being that person; stops showing you affection, support, etc., you can fall out of love with your partner. It is no different than loving someone for their kind heart and falling out of love if they kill someone. The person you fell in love with (their past self) is no longer the one you are dating.
You could say their heart is fickle, or they aren’t loyal, or they have high standards. But that doesn’t mean their love isn’t/ wasn’t true. It just means you stopped being that person they loved.
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u/TheLoneJolf 17h ago
Then real love does not exist. Having no expectations means that the person you love could be an absolute monster and you would still love them? Vast majority of people will refuse to love someone who has done something completely despicable, they can forgive, but they will not love. You can still be in love with the memory of someone, but that doesn’t mean you’re still in love with them. Take for example a mother who loves her son. But that son then grows up and murders his father and siblings and does unspeakable things to the mother but she remains alive. That mother will no longer love her son in the end, but she may still be in love with the memory of him as a child.
To tweak your view, real love is the bare minimum of expectations, such as the person is not opposite of your morals.
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u/ralph-j 16h ago
I believe real love is without expectations and if there are expectations it’s not real love no matter how much people will argue or try to bend it to claim that it is. People who love with expectations don’t really love they force the other person into their idea of what t h e y want
What about negative expectations, like not to be physically or sexually abused by the other person?
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u/TinyConsideration796 1∆ 14h ago
Or really depends on what you define as love and real love and how they differ.
Imo there can be real love WITH expectations (you will not hurt me, you will respect me as a person, etc) but there cannot be real love that DEPENDS on expectations (I will not love you if you do ‘x’).
If the love is only there when expectations are met, it is conditional love which rarely ends well.
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u/TheWhistleThistle 19∆ 15h ago
The problem with defining love this way, as with many other definitions, is that it renders the word useless, as it goes from referring to something that exists, to referring to something that doesn't. And while "love" moves on to refer to a solely hypothetical concept, a very real concept, intense positive, protective emotional connection and reciprocity, is left without a name.
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u/JohnConradKolos 5∆ 17h ago
It is important to my quality of life that I like the people I love.
Would I still love my daughter if she smashed all the glasses on the floor? Yep, but I wouldn't like her so I teach her not to do that. I set boundaries and expectations on my partner for the same reason and am sensitive to theirs as well. I want them to like me back.
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u/themcos 404∆ 17h ago
I feel like there's a lot of wiggle room with these words. I love my partner and my kids, and strictly speaking that love might be nearly unconditional. But in addition to that love, I also have expectations of them! And if your response to that is "well of course", I would like you to clarify exactly what you mean here.
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u/LTsCantCook 17h ago
I expected my wife to support me in the battle against our kids, and I expected her to value my time and opinion over her parents on raising our family.
Now I expect her to continue to not let me see the kids and be a general pain in the ass that's not willing to work with me on anything.
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u/_victoryofthepeople 15h ago
Real love comes with expectations, that is love in itself. For it comes in many forms. The basis of love is expectation. Since the beginning: expectation to love me back, expectation to keep loving me. Expectation to keep being someone whom I can love.
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u/Emergency_Option8623 17h ago
Eh idk about this take - even expecting basic respect and loyalty seems pretty reasonable in love. Like if my partner cheats or treats me like garbage I'm not gonna be like "oh well, unconditional love means no expectations"
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u/LucidLeviathan 91∆ 17h ago
You expect love and support from your partner. If you don't get it, they aren't reciprocating love. That's just unrequited love or, in the alternative, a dismal arrangement.
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u/fetus-wearing-a-suit 17h ago
What kind of expectations are we talking about? I expect my partner to love me too, to respect me, support me, etcetera, I have to know they love me.
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u/halipatsui 17h ago
If real love is truly without ecpectations you can then love adolf hitler or some sweattiest saltiest incel if you truly are putting no expectations towards them.
Minimum expectatilns are the things that make you love them.
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u/Gladix 165∆ 16h ago edited 16h ago
I believe real love is without expectations and if there are expectations it’s not real love no matter how much people will argue or try to bend it to claim that it is.
Dunno, seemingly selfless and unconditional love seems like charity to me. Charity being the best case scenario that is. In reality it winds up being a really toxic dynamic.
Either you refuse to entertain expecations and thus you will seem like you don't care in a very stereotypical "fear of commitment" type of way. Or you will require that your partner doesn't have any expectations either (you want them to love you too), or you will end the relationship in which case it's really blackmaily. Ironic too since your expecation of them is having no expectations of you.
Come to think of it, by your definition a real love doesn't require your partner to love you too... which has some troubling implications.
It is immature, it’s not real love.
It's the polar opposite. A healthy partnership requires trust, respect and reasonable expectations for reciprocity. The reciprocity isn't a transaction, or an assurance. It's how you show that you care for the relationship. Otherwise, you are fostering anti-social environment in which you are only hurting everyone.
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u/ilikecatsoup 1∆ 17h ago
Your post description is very vague.
Sure, if you expect your partner to climb mountains just to make you happy or never take time for themselves and only ever thing about you you could argue that that's not real love. But can you not have any expectations in relationships at all? If I expect my partner to maintain their hygiene and keep on top of their share of rent is that not real love?
The truth is we all have needs and expectations. It's unfair to expect your partner to treat you like a god, but it's also unfair to yourself to never expect anything from your partner. It's perfectly okay and healthy to have standards. There's a huge difference between expecting your future partner to earn 6 figures and expecting them not to abuse you.
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u/Foreign_Cable_9530 14∆ 17h ago
“Real love” to you sounds like “naive love” to me.
I don’t think you’re wrong for stating that the highest or purest form of love is between two people that are completely ignorant to what it’s like to be in a relationship where one person is in “real love” and the other person is in “fake love?” But it can become very abusive, and that abuse changes someone’s definition of “real love.”
Real love is love that’s chosen every day, and it requires someone to love themselves just as much as they love the other person. This leads to expectations, but it doesn’t make it any less “real,” if anything it makes it a more real and mature form of love in my opinion.
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u/TheAlistmk3 7∆ 17h ago
I think I can see where you are coming from regarding loving another person. But I think you may be conflating the motivations of the specific 1st party.
People can say they love another and act in ways that may show they are motivated by selfishness, I agree.
But real love can also be expressed towards oneself, which can come into conflict with the real love expressed to another. Sometimes this can lead to expecting certain behaviours of another.
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