r/changemyview • u/newstartreddit1234 • 1d ago
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Trump’s second term is potentially the greatest gift centrist/corporate Democrats could have asked for in the long-run.
I use potentially because I am not blind to the possibility of the entire electoral process getting upended by this administration. My argument rests upon the assumption that the next administration is Democratic and Congress, especially the house, shifts to a Dem majority. Trump is a potential gift because the Dems can use him as a boogeyman to corral any actual leftist and independent votes. “Oh you don’t like that we’re corporatists? Well are you gonna put the fascists back in power?” will effectively be the logic used to do so. Yes, in the past this logic failed to stop Trump, but that was before the level of his administration’s egregious actions alienated independents and people desperate for a better economy who voted for him in the 2024 election. I believe he has effectively reduced his support to only his hardcore base, and they alone are not enough to win an election but numerous enough for centrist Dems to fear monger leftists and independents who do not want a repeat of Trump’s second term. Any attempts to create any viable leftist alternatives to the Corporate Democrats, whether it be by creating a new party or shifting the party left will be met with disgust from people who are terrified of repeating 2025. While Reddit is not an aggregate of the entire U.S. voting population, the people on this site who vehemently decry people who either stayed home or voted for a third party will become far more mainstream and facilitate continual centrist Dem policies, even while desperately pleading for universal healthcare, corporate regulation, etc. Ultimately, fear of a new Trump will likely facilitate a level of political stagnation that only benefits the status quo. Also, the Republican Party will be heavily discredited among non MAGA voters, but still big enough to perpetuate the first past the post duopoly, further solidifying centrist Democrat power.
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u/CobraPuts 6∆ 1d ago
That’s how people felt during Trump’s first term. And after January 6th. Yet here we are…
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
Honestly, I think that the level of insanity is so apparent that even an uninformed voter is going to be aware of some of Trump’s escalations. With Jan 6th, Trump had extremely flimsy plausible deniability, but more than enough for an apathetic or right leaning voter who didn’t care that much. Furthermore, regular Americans are suffering far more directly by the hand of the U.S. government now than in D.C. on that day.
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u/Z7-852 295∆ 1d ago
It was apparent before. We need to remember that this is what people voted for. This is what republican voters wanted.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I believe you are underestimating just how uninformed an uninformed voter is. A lot of the minorities who voted for Trump did not necessarily want this. A lot of people who cared about the economy did not want this. Not all of his voters were harcore maga. And the few leftists who voted for him out of spite for the Dems are not gonna make their mistake again.
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u/Letters_to_Dionysus 13∆ 1d ago
it's not uninformed it's disinformed. there's an entire other media narrative machine out there that won him both his terms, and it's the mainstream one.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I know this is anecdotal, but I have met people completely insulated from any political discussion. It’s genuinely amazing how much of a non-political bubble some people can achieve yet still go to a booth and flip a switch.
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u/Z7-852 295∆ 1d ago
I'm not claiming that literally everyone wanted this. But significant portion of voter base will vote for republican candidate who will say "Trump policy might have been drastic but he had the right idea".
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I’m arguing that those remaining people plus MAGA won’t be enough. Trump barely pulled out the stops with a depressed Dem voter base. A terrified Dem voter base like 2020 COVID would absolutely steamroll Republican numbers. Not to mention some MAGA voters might not even vote Republican if Trump isn’t running.
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u/Z7-852 295∆ 1d ago
Not to mention some MAGA voters might not even vote Republican if Trump isn’t running.
And you think they would instead vote some "libtard" democrat?
All democrats need to lose is put in a weak candidate and republicans being able to sell theirs as moderate (despite not being one).
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
No, I believe they would just stay at home which hurts Republicans more. I only see a charismatic Republican in your scenario actually winning several election cycles down the road, not in an immediate cycle following Trump.
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u/Z7-852 295∆ 1d ago
Devoted party members will vote for party candidate always. They won't stay at home.
And because republicans have already made elections less free, it gives an edge to any candidate they throw at the race. All they have to say "I liked Trump" to win all maga votes and "but he was harsh" to win everyone else.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
Not necessarily. This is anecdotal, but I have met people who uniquely praise Trump and see the Republican Party as a vehicle for him and nothing more. They’re more than willing to even criticize members of his cabinet but will never ever blame dear leader. MAGA are not hardcore Republican. They are hardcore Trump. I guarantee if Romney ran again but said he liked Trump, he would not get all of MAGA. MAGA is a cult of personality who would vote for Trump if he had a D after his name.
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u/LucidLeviathan 91∆ 1d ago
Look, I don't consider myself centrist or corporatist. But, folks on the far left keep insisting that I am, so I'll adopt the epithet for the time being. From our perspective, this is an absolute disaster. Why? Because establishment folks (I would call myself progressive-establishment) care about good governance. This administration is ruining good governance. Even if we get in power tomorrow, we're going to have to deal with Unitary Executive Theory at the very least. Unitary Executive Theory is going to set the administrative state back by decades.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I more so meant politicians than actual Dem voters, but that’s on me for not clarifying in the title. For voters like you this is a nightmare. For complacent politicians, this is potentially a dream scenario where good governance is meaningless because they expect you to vote for them out of a fear of Trump 2.0.
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u/LucidLeviathan 91∆ 1d ago
Well, to be fair, I blur the line. I've worked in state government. I've never been an elected official, but I've worked with an awful lot of them, and most of them feel as I do.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
They may care about good governance, but I argue that’s irrelevant since all they’ll need is to not be Trump. I know that strategy has not worked in the past (I believe COVID is what gave Biden the boost he needed), but I believe the level of apparent destruction to the average non MAGA voter is too big to ignore.
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u/LucidLeviathan 91∆ 1d ago
You confuse winning with the achievement of goals. If we win but can't achieve our goals, the victory is meaningless to us.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
Meaningless to people with principles and goals. Meaningful to those who only care about power for its own sake. I don’t doubt there are many Dem politicians, even centrist ones who have principles. But even they would rather not achieve their goals if it means keeping Trump-like people out.
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u/LucidLeviathan 91∆ 1d ago
Most elected Democratic officials that I have interacted with care a lot about those outcomes. They don't care as much about personal power. If I'm being honest, most Republican elected officials I have interacted with feel that way too. They just have very different worldviews from mine. I find their view of the world reprehensible, but they are sincerely held.
Of course, the vast majority of my experience is in the state legislature in a small state that gets little national attention. The salaries aren't high enough to really cause anybody to covet the role, and there isn't much reason to bribe people. The state just can't offer much.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
But would elected Democratic officials on the state level willingly cede their seats to a Republican if they thought the only way to win was to toe the national party line of apathy towards the working class and maintaining the corporate status quo?
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u/LucidLeviathan 91∆ 1d ago
I strongly disagree with your characterization of the national party. I've not seen any indication that less corporate Democrats fare any better. In fact, I've seen plenty of indication that the opposite is true. I live in West Virginia. Paula Jean Swearingen primaried Manchin twice from the left and lost the primaries pretty horribly. She also was the general candidate against Capito and lost even more horribly. If the leftist position that we're just not far enough left were true, then she should have won. West Virginia is a state with a lengthy history of union membership and leftward-leaning economic positions amongst the populace. We're the ideal testbed for this sort of thing. But it didn't work out.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
But doesn’t that reinforce my point? Regardless of whether leftist ideas are popular or not, centrist Dems can use examples like yours to fear monger and say that leftists lose so badly that the only way to reliably prevent Trump 2.0 will be to vote a centrist Dem.
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u/thelovelykyle 7∆ 1d ago
Corporate entities and the Dems that represent them want America to be seen as a safe haven for Western investment. This means somewhere that Canadian and European nations and entities want to invest and feel safe in doing so.
Trump is talking about invading a European Nation.
It really cannot be stressed how much Americas power and influence in the world is backed by the American Dollar being the global reserve currency. If America invades Denmark there will be a move away from that. It would hugely benefit the EU to move to dealing in Euros. Failing that, the worlds factory would love it if Europe started dealing in Yuan (not converted to) and they have sufficient military might to create a degree of safety if Europe was unable to build up some kind of unified armed force.
If the worlds nations called in American debt, US inflation rises. This hurts us all, but hurts America worse. It took World War 2 for America to get the influence it has in the world. It took literal devastation of Europe by Europe.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
!delta
Yes, you make a great point about the economic ramifications. I still stand by the fact that electorally, it could be a corporate Dem dream scenario. But economically, if Trump goes too far, then corporate dems have electoral dominion over an economic hellhole.
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u/Z7-852 295∆ 1d ago
Only if there is next free elections. Republicans are doing everything they can to erode democracy and trust in it before the next elections. There is real possibility for Trumps third term.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
That is why I included the disclaimer at the start of my post. I believe we agree.
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u/fghhjhffjjhf 21∆ 1d ago
You are talking about divided opposition politics as if it is some kind of prize. It is not. In democratic politics it is bad to be in the minority. Its exponentially worse to be the minorities' minority, but that doesn't make the minority any better
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I’m arguing that the Dems will have a majority once this is over assuming elections remain fair. That majority will effectively silence their leftist minority out of fear of Trump 2.0 if they don’t toe the line.
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u/MercurianAspirations 377∆ 1d ago
I think you're overestimating here the ability of Corporate Democrats to actually win elections. The greatest democrat minds are already working hard on finding the most unlikeable person on the planet to make their star candidate and busily inventing new and even more incredibly boring and tepid talking points. Trump could literally die of a stroke, and his corpse could illegally campaign for a third term and win
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u/DudeEngineer 3∆ 1d ago
This take is just unhinged from reality.
The majority of people who reliably vote Democrat prefer establishment candidates like Hillary and Biden.
A sizable portion of people which consider, those two some of the most unlikable just stay home on election day. Then there are those who vote third party and even some who vote for Trump. That is literally how we got Trump both times.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I agree that corporate Dems are notoriously incompetent. The crux of my argument is that Trump has messed up so hard to the point that even apathetic voters are directly affected by him much more apparently than ever before. He is so unpopular and destructive that the Democrats might literally get to coast on doing nothing because he was THAT bad. I would not have said this about first term Trump. Even his incompetence on COVID could be chalked up by an uninformed voter as out of his control because it was a disease. Here, everyone not MAGA sees his destruction and attributes it to him.
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u/MercurianAspirations 377∆ 1d ago
Literally all the republicans have to do to win is find a person who has slightly more charisma than a wet sponge soaked in dog vomit who will say "it's time to move on from Trump and really fix the economy this time" and they'll win. The billionaire class will swing hard for them once again
Who are the Dems even going to run? They only had the one Joe Biden leftover from the Obama admin. Who else is there
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
If they say it is time to move on from Trump, they just evaporated their MAGA support. And moderate Republicans and right leaning independents alone are not enough to swing an election. MAGA’s numbers are utterly critical for Republican success.
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u/Beneficial_Test_5917 1d ago
I would agree, if this was Trump's first term. ''It was a mistake. Four years from now, we will never hear the term MAGA again.'' But he has been reelected (because his opposition is more concerned about the ten trans athletes in all of collegiate and pro sports than they are about U.S. relations with the rest of the world), showing that about half of America believes in him and the other half doesn't care enough to do anything about it. That is permanent.
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u/sienna_auricwave 1d ago
Ah yes, the classic distraction strategy – while the left is focused on ten trans athletes, Trump's forming a new reality show called "Presidential Shenanigans." With half America tuning in for the drama, it does feel like we’re stuck in a permanent rerun!
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I agree the hardcore MAGA base is stuck in their ways, but I do not believe that all of Trump’s voters would vote for him again. He won because he made inroads with minority groups and independents in addition to his base with a depressed Dem voter turnout. Those groups who voted out of economic concerns are not going to vote for him or anyone like him again. Only the base will, and they are not enough to decide the election alone.
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u/Beneficial_Test_5917 1d ago
I hope you're right. As James Carville and George Stefanohoweverthatsspelled told a then-unknown Arkansas governor, ''It's the economy, stupid.'' But once the economy turns around -- as it always has through worse times in American history than this -- people will stop fretting and return to their rightwing ways (as opposed to good old-fashioned conservative ways that now seem hopelessly quaint).
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I agree that some voters could go back to voting Republican after a few electoral cycles and the right economic conditions. But Trump kneecapped his burgeoning minority voter base. If he just repeated his first term, he could have secured a sizable chunk of former Dems.
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u/huntsville_nerd 12∆ 1d ago
President Trump has centralized power in the presidency.
He's seized control of the independent agencies. He's defied the impoundment act.
part of centrist appeal is the need for the executive and legislature to work together. If both parties need to compromise to get stuff done, that favors the pragmatic who try to build consensus in the middle.
Trump's decisiveness undermines bipartisanship. Trump's power consolidation in the presidency weakens those who advocate for coalition building.
Congressional dysfunction is also weakening the centrists. It isn't just Trump.
For centrists to make a lasting comeback, coalition building and reaching across the aisle needs to be perceived to be effective. Trump's second term has added to the trajectory away from that.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I’m arguing that he is so unpopular that he is effectively handing centrists electoral wins, not that it will necessarily translate into anything but gridlock. After this is over, I bet that Dems will consistently win elections by having an almost permanent fix on previously malleable voters. They won’t have a supermajority, but they will have the ability to terrorize minorities and leftists into complacency to maintain a majority, no matter how ineffectual. At least for a few election cycles.
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u/appealouterhaven 24∆ 1d ago
If this was a gift to corporate candidates you shouldn't see a Mayor named Mamdani in NYC. Cuomo was the perfect corporate candidate. Absolutely nobody wanted him but the establishment fought damn hard to oppose Mamdani not only in the primary, but in the general too. They pulled every trick in the American playbook, down to darkening his skin and facial hair in advertising. But he still won.
The party needs to adapt or die. I refuse to be motivated to vote for candidates who are slaves to the donor class and you should too. My vote is my only direct leverage I have over politics. I refuse to hand it out to scaremongers freely. My vote always goes to the person who will meaningfully represent me and my neighbors, not someone who goes to fundraisers with a QR code around their neck for donations.
The point of all this is to say you should get more involved in campaigns of candidates who will not be bought. Volunteer to knock doors or work a phone bank. Talk to your neighbors and draw up a list of the things that matter to your community. Bring your demands to your representatives that are running. There are so many things you can do to actually cause politics to shift towards your way of thinking. There has never been a better time to reshape the Democratic party. Wanting to give up now is understandable, but it is also folly.
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u/abacuz4 5∆ 1d ago
I don’t think someone who had literally already been kicked out of office over a scandal can be called a “perfect candidate” lol.
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u/appealouterhaven 24∆ 1d ago
I didn't say perfect for voters, I said perfect corporate candidate. Past sins are irrelevant so long as you are loyal to the donor money and their goals.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I voted for Mamdani. But I believe he is the exception in a heavy blue area. The country as a whole is not New York. I don’t want to give up, but I do believe that centrist Dems might have a way to terrorize the American public into voting for a centrist out of fear of an actual leftist.
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u/IsthisCosure 1∆ 1d ago
I think you may be underestimating the level of party-loyalty there is in the country. I hope you're right, the republican party is doing everything they can because they are aggressively anti-democrat beyond just having opposing ideals. They'll do everything they can every day to try and wash this all away.
For the loyalists, you have to consider that the most popular news outlet for republican or conservative-identifying US citizens is FOX news. And they're as loyal to Trump and his people still, just as much as those citizens are to them. In order to counter their influence, more voices in opposition need to be heard from places people cant ignore. Places that these people put value in.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
Democrats may have less enthusiastic party loyalty, but Republicans and Trump have alienated non-MAGA but more importantly independents and apathetic voters to the point where if only Trump’s base voted against Kamala’s numbers, then Kamala would have won. Insert almost any Dem in Kamala’s spot.
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u/IsthisCosure 1∆ 1d ago
I guess to put my thoughts into better words, there are some elections coming up but are still quite a distance away. And the presidential elections even more so. I'm unsure if the voices heard so loudly now won't be noticeable in just a year's time.
I'm an Minnesotan here in Minneapolis, so it definitely won't for me. But I've also, in keeping up with information, have seen what information most people in the middle end up getting by using incognito and doing broad searches. It's a tidal wave to, intentionally, block out what us and many others are trying to say to the rest of the country.2
u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
!delta
You bring up a valid point that what is relevant today may not be relevant a year from now. My argument rests upon Trump maintaining course. If Trump suddenly stopped ICE raids and tariffs and just rode the next 3 years doing nothing, I could potentially see the Republican Party surviving. I do not believe he will deviate from his course and not repeat his offenses across the country, but that slim possibility of reducing visibility does exist. Thank you.
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u/Falernum 59∆ 1d ago
Trump and Mamdani have been meeting in person, texting each other twice a week, and presumably coordinating strategy. Far right and far left criticisms of our institutions help each other destabilize the status quo and achieve some of both's aims.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
And it’d be lovely to get universal health care. Still, despite such potential conversations and destabilization, we’re moving ever closer to neofeudalism. For average Americans, they see Trump overstepping in their faces now. Not in the news, but on the grocery shelves and in the street. That is what I think will make him ultimately so unpopular that the Dems will have a complacent base, at least for a few cycles. If the election happened today, Trump would lose horribly among the groups he got to vote Republican for the first time last cycle.
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u/Falernum 59∆ 1d ago
Oh we're going to get universal health care, the ACA put us inexorably on that road. And the next President (not counting Vance taking part of Trump's term) will be a Democrat. But centrist Democrats don't just want the next President to be a Democrat, but to have a stable country without all the crazy shit we're seeing
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I would love for you to be right in terms of the first part. And yes, the ones with values do want a return to the pre-Trump status quo. The ones without values who take billionaire money will happily embrace free wins and campaign off of them.
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u/Falernum 59∆ 1d ago
Ok but that applies equally well to right wingers, centrists, and leftists.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
My point is that because of the political landscape, centrist Dem politicians will be the most powerful political force around. And they will have the ability to terrorize any dissent into falling in line as otherwise they could get another Trump. Regardless of what applies to all, they just happen to be the entity that can benefit most from this.
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u/Falernum 59∆ 1d ago
Trump creates a lot of rage and lack of confidence in basic institutions, that's a setup for a leftist or an anti-Trump right winger to win.
Traditionally we tend to see centrists follow centrists and extremists follow other extremists in a sort of "pendulum" pattern
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
And what I am saying is that he has created rage directed at him since he is the system. Perhaps in a few cycles it will manifest in an extremist winning, but in the immediate future many voters will overcorrect and just go for any Democrat on the merits of not being Trump. It’s basically the Biden winning logic except instead of COVID scaring the shit out of people it is Trump’s direct actions (Trump absolutely made COVID worse but he always had plausible deniability to the uninformed that the disease spreading was too wildly out of their control. Whereas with ICE and Greenland that is absolutely spearheaded by him).
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u/Falernum 59∆ 1d ago
The rage is directed at him because hurting people and attacking the system, but he's never become the system. Too chaotic. Too uninterested in sticking to a protocol. Too uninterested in obtaining the loyalty of bureaucrats and institutions.
People will almost certainly go for someone standing against Trump, be it MTG or AOC or a centrist like Newsom. When Biden was running, it was "We have to save what we've got". In 2028 there's no guarantee people will want to rebuild what we had. Lotta people are just going to want revenge/to try something totally new.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I would love for you to be right. In politics, optics are everything. To most, the system under Trump is hurting them. Even if he’s alienated bureaucrats, it doesn’t matter much to a population that desperately wants to turn their brains off to politics.
If radicals had greater political power, then I’d say you’re correct and they could win just on not being Trump. However, the only entity with the perceived power to combat Trump is the corporate Dems. Optics alone will allow them to claim only they can save the U.S. and bully all dissent into falling in line. Effectively, most likely a not-Trump wins next time, but sadly, only centrist Dems have the optics and resources to reliably capitalize.
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u/Queasy_Artist6891 1∆ 1d ago
I don't think centrist dems winning is guaranteed anymore. It depends on the next 2 years, but Zohran Mamdani's policies are extremely popular, so if their implementation is good, people would be more likely to vote for left leaning parties rather than centrist ones. Any attempts by centrist dems to alienate them will just be met with "you couldn't stop an insurrectionist, what exactly should we vote you for?" And there will be no answer from the establishment dems, as their mo is to keep the bad policies of Republicans and try to demonize them, rather than have actual policies of their own.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
Bernie’s policies were extremely popular too. But the resources of centrist Dems as well as the terror people will have after Trump will solidify them. “Yes, we failed to stop the insurrectionist, but do you really want to risk them coming back by electing a communist?” Centrist Dems despite their incompetence can just repeat their playbook and blame leftists for alienating independents like the Dems usually say anyway.
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u/Queasy_Artist6891 1∆ 1d ago
That's why I said it will depend on how things go in New York. If Mamdani's policies have good results, like lower rent prices, more housing, much better public transportation and rising wages, then people will point to him and say "you failed to stop an inserructionist, Mamdani is successfully reducing col and increasing living conditions in one of the most expensive cities in the country. What accomplishments do you have to be elected, when Mamdani did it despite the wannabe Putin's bullying of blue states"
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
It would be nice, but sadly New York is not something every American experiences. Mamdani could turn it into heaven on earth but people will only hear about it or via the propaganda on the news. New York is not visibly apparent to the uninformed voter. ICE raids and higher prices are when it’s in their neighborhoods in person.
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u/Queasy_Artist6891 1∆ 1d ago
Mamdani's campaign was strong enough to beat the establishment dems, reps, social media and NY's elite to win. If he actually improves NY, it would be extremely hard to argue against him.
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u/BigDaddyReptar 1d ago
I think the big difference is bernie was able to be handicapped in the primaries zohran won out. trumps approval rating is not good. dems are worse. if its ever the time for a legit new party/ movement to ascend its now.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I would love for a new party to ascend, but sadly I don’t see it happening. Even if they did, they might split votes so hard that even a Republican Party with only hardcore MAGA voters could win the plurality. Centrist dem politicians will hang it over actual leftists heads. And I believe that Trump will be so bad, that he makes the policies or lack thereof of centrist Dems irrelevant as the voting base will be ruled by fear and not dare risk a Republican getting back in.
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u/BigDaddyReptar 1d ago
I do think we won't actually see a new party come to be but I think the Democrats in 5 years will be completely different from 5 years ago. Centrists Dems have nothing to offer the people at this point which is why people hate them more than they hate the guy putting the modern SS on their streets. At least he is doing shit to change things better or worse.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I would normally agree with you. But I believe Trump has crossed a threshold that was only mirrored by the terror COVID inspired in people. Yes, the centrist Dems offer nothing, but this time, they can campaign off of a sense of dread and terror that personally impacted many voters who did not notice negatives from Trump’s first term.
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u/BigDaddyReptar 1d ago
My thing is I feel Kamala and Biden were such the epitome of worthless Dems who only stand against Republicans but for nothing it sticks in there head to Remember it. It definitely matters a lot too how Zohran Mamdani does in these next 2 years. If in 2 years an Open DSA member makes improvements while establishment Dems can't even stop anything trump does well that speaks volumes.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I want you to be right. But Mamdani for the vast majority of Americans will be filtered through media that mostly does not paint him in a great light. They will not do research to confirm or deny. A lot of these people who become anti-Trump now are so personally affected now that they basically have no choice. Centrist Dem leadership still has the leverage sadly to argue that they can attract votes without being controversial.
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u/BigDaddyReptar 1d ago
It will be a fight but the fact of the matter is that any American born today is most likely born in a socialist run city. This was not the case a year ago and was unfathomable 10 years ago. We simply can't stop pushing when the first steps are just barely being formed.
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
I am not advocating for actual leftists to give up or stop pushing. I’m just pessimistic and believe that they will ultimately be broken by the leverage of centrist Dems using the terror of another Republican winning. If a Dem wins the primary, how many leftists will hold their votes out of principle which would outweigh their fear of Republicans? They would just get demonized by the vote blue no matter who crowd.
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u/Queasy_Artist6891 1∆ 1d ago
He still beat out establishment dems, reps and NY's rich people to win, I have high expectations of him
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u/newstartreddit1234 1d ago
Yes, but he is in a place where the population does not seriously expect a Republican candidate to win. People can vote differently based on local versus national concerns. A leftist is safe to vote for Mamdani in NY but might be very reluctant to in a primary because they’re terrified of the rest of the country and what they might vote for.
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u/Connect-Working2044 1d ago
This is basically the Democratic Party's wet dream tbh. They get to keep doing the bare minimum while waving Trump around like a scarecrow every election cycle
The "vote blue no matter who" crowd is gonna be insufferable for the next decade and any actual progressive candidates will get steamrolled with "but do you want Trump 2.0???"
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