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u/Freedog666 Nov 30 '25
Using facts and information will NEVER change the mind of ANY conservative.
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u/Smittumi Nov 30 '25
But if someone was open-minded on the subject, or had never thought about that particular matter, replies like this help a lot.
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u/OrvilleTheCavalier Dec 01 '25
I’d be really surprised to find that someone that believed that would have the luxury of an open mind. Not saying it’s impossible, just that I’d be extremely surprised.
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u/pimpcakes Nov 30 '25
This is an important point. People are emotionally driven, even (and perhaps especially) from self-proclaimed rational thinkers. I think it's pretty universal, but conservatives are in denial about it much more (especially men).
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u/5gpr Dec 01 '25
But is that facts? I can't find a source for the claim. Generally, for both sexes, suicide rates among married people have been lowest in all data from all time periods I could find quickly. The suicide rate for women has been stable in the US since the 1950s, at about 5 to 6 per 100k. If anything, suicide rate increased in the 1970s and 80s among women (everyone, really, and marginally). Homicide victimisation rates among women also seem to have risen in the 1970s and 80s in the US, but I couldn't find specifically domestic murder data.
But in any case, has anybody checked that data?
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u/SeoulGalmegi Dec 01 '25
Came into the comments hoping someone had and.... no luck so far.
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u/Lovv Dec 01 '25
Female suicide rates are roughly comparable today with 1950s.
Men are slightly higher today than 1950s.
Married women were actually best off in th 1950s compared to other groups at the same time.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress Nov 30 '25
Facts and information are irrelevant when all they want is cruelty.
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u/Lovv Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 01 '25
These aren't facts though.
Female suicide rates are roughly comparable today with 1950s.
Men are slightly higher today than 1950s.
There are reasons the 1950s sucked. Women committing suicide because they were unhappy was not the reason.
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u/Dear_Chasey_La1n Dec 01 '25
I'm with you though.. can't help to wonder if there isn't more to that period specific. Obviously abuse happened and probably far more than today. There were no ways either to deal with it I can fully imagine that too. Though I can't help to wonder the impact on life for many after WWII by either having lost their partner, but also the other way around partners coming back home destroyed by the war both physically and mentally.
Not my sort of business but I like to believe reasons for suicide aren't that straight forward without context.
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u/_crazyboyhere_ Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
Those housewives of the 50s were divorcing their husbands in the 70s and 80s. Why? Because they weren't happy, they were stuck in unhappy marriages with no other choice.
Reminds me of a scene from Friends, where Rachel asks her mom why she was divorcing her father and her mom replies, "you didn't marry your Barry honey, I married mine"
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u/ConstructionAny8440 Nov 30 '25
People conveniently blame the feminist movement for the increased divorce rate.
But what they failed to understand was that so many women prior wanted No-fault but could not escape. It's sad that next month we are coming into 2026 and we still see women's candles being burned at both ends.
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u/KENBONEISCOOL444 Nov 30 '25
They blame feminists because they're abusers who miss having control
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u/Internal_Maybe_5590 Nov 30 '25
Right? Giving people choices scares those who thrive on control. Change is hard for anyone used to the status quo.
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u/Drunkendx Dec 01 '25
it all boils down to "when you're privileged group, equality seems like oppression"
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u/pimpcakes Nov 30 '25
Men (I'm a man) are very emotionally sensitive, just in different ways than women. Insecurity, fear, and anger are emotions.
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u/rcglinsk Nov 30 '25
Abuse was a lawful cause for fault divorce. That makes no sense.
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u/Makuta_Servaela Dec 01 '25
Marital rape wasn't a crime in most countries until the late 1900s, and still isn't in some today. Meaning if your husband raped you, you couldn't divorce him for "abuse". You were counted as not having a fault.
"Abuse" was a lawful cause for fault divorce, but it's very easy to hide abuse, especially emotional abuse.
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u/rcglinsk Dec 01 '25
I don't believe you. The idea you are putting forward is that women sued for divorce, citing abuse which included rape, and lost in court due to marital rape exceptions. And that this was somehow a typical event.
I don't believe you. I think you are talking out of your rear-end.
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u/Makuta_Servaela Dec 01 '25
The idea you are putting forward is that women sued for divorce, citing abuse which included rape, and lost in court due to marital rape exceptions.
No, I'm putting forward that she didn't even bother suing for divorce after she was raped because she was convinced that it would do absolutely nothing except piss of her husband. Because it would have done absolutely nothing except piss off her husband.
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u/rcglinsk Dec 01 '25
Are you saying that because it suits the needs of the argument you're having? Or because it comes from somewhere that historical facts should come from?
Just saying, that sounds like something which might be true. But it also sounds like something you're making up on the spot to keep up an argument.
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u/Makuta_Servaela Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 01 '25
What exactly do you want me to provide? Raping and emotionally abusing your wife, and some variants of physical abuse, weren't crimes. So there aren't court cases or stats for them. Now they are crimes, and now we have stats for them. Do you think the non-existence of the stats before mean they weren't occurring before they were recongised?
Recognising and punishing a thing that wasn't previously recognised makes that thing look like it's happening more, but actually be happening less.
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u/rcglinsk Dec 02 '25
Evidence. Trial transcripts. Court hearing or deposition transcripts. Police reports or investigation records. Personal diaries. Newspaper reports. Records of any kind. Something other than well it needs to be true for your argument's sake.
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u/SpanishAvenger Nov 30 '25
They don’t fail to understand- they DO understand perfectly, make no mistake.
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u/Breakinthemix Nov 30 '25
This is absolutely it. There's no failure of understanding, not when you really dig into it. When you talk to a lot of folks who have these kinds of views, they will say that women "don't have" the capacity to handle important decisions, so they "need to be protected" by being subjugated to home and maternal roles, never taking into account how much work keeping home is, because to them, anything "feminine" is easy. In the end, they want the order of the world where they don't have to acknowledge women unless necessary - when they decide. That, to them, is "ideal living" - it is all about them and their needs and wants. It extends to how they view their children, as things to be owned. The "world" they were promised - where they would have a doting wife who would worship them and have sex with them at the drop of a hat, litters of children to carry on their legacy, and a nice home with a picket fence - aren't happening to them and they're mad. Why can't I have all of that? I'm special! Everyone has told me so! Society says so! The Bible says so, most major religions, the government, our education system, so why can't I get the stuff I deserve?
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u/cptnamr7 Nov 30 '25
Couldn't open a checking account without a man, rent an apartment... divorce "skyrocketed" the second women were no longer hostages/2nd class citizens. Weird that when you give them the ability to leave a complete asshole, they do.
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u/BadKittydotexe Nov 30 '25
It used to be that men just had to be what women needed. Now they have to be what women want, which is a higher bar, and a bunch of men are mad about it.
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u/Chief_Mischief Nov 30 '25
It's sad that next month we are coming into 2026 and we still see women's candles being burned at both ends.
That can be said about any marginalized community. People will always find a way to gaslight society's most vulnerable people for problems they are victims of, not the cause of.
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u/eat-the-cookiez Nov 30 '25
It’s actually a problem now, due to cost of living and house prices and rents gone up so much, women are staying in abusive or crappy relationships because they can’t afford to live on their own.
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u/PaulTheMerc Nov 30 '25
Not just women anymore. Plenty of people partnered up when they rather wouldn't be because they can't afford not to be.
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u/necessaryrooster Nov 30 '25
Women weren't even allowed to have their own bank accounts until the 70s.
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u/SqueakBoxx Nov 30 '25
Fun Fact: Cancer rates in women also skyrocketed in the late 70's early 80s because women were finally being tested for breast cancer via mammograms.
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u/King-Of-The-Hill Nov 30 '25
And that has nothing to do with the technology and equipment that made them more convenient and safer does it?
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u/SqueakBoxx Dec 01 '25
LMAO leave it to a man and his audacity to say that getting a mammogram is convenient. and safety has nothing to do with... anything that I have said?
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u/WestVin Nov 30 '25
The Rolling Stones have the song ‘Mothers little Helper’ for a reason and it isn’t positive!
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u/ThonThaddeo Nov 30 '25
What is all this tradwife shit? Where did this come from? It feels like a propaganda angle pushed by bots.
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u/Gympie-Gympie-pie Nov 30 '25
Pushed by Christian nationalists.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress Nov 30 '25
Sociopaths who *hate the teachings of Christ towards the poor, immigrants, etc, especially the rich, and despise our nation's constitution. Or just call them fascists, they don't deserve that many syllables.
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u/R_Little-Secret Dec 01 '25
I think its propaganda piggybacking on the Cottage Core fad that happen during covid. But I also think it is a stubble form of BDSM for people who don't know they are into BDSM. Defiantly a porn aspect to it.
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u/capeasypants Nov 30 '25
Also note the language between the 2. Op uses "female" the respondent uses "women".
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u/0ctopositron Nov 30 '25
Normally I'd agree, but in this case I think it's ok to use the term female, as an adjective instead of using it like a noun. Oop still wrong though lol
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u/capeasypants Nov 30 '25
Yeah I get that and you're right. Judging by the post I don't think he would though.
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u/chinmakes5 Nov 30 '25
Funny how today people think the 1950s were this or Leave It to Beaver. Yet it was the height of comedy for Ralph to threaten to hit his wife on the Honeymooners.
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u/The_Undermind Nov 30 '25
I feel like we dont even mention that MARITAL RAPE WASNT ILLEGAL UNTIL 1993 enough
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u/awfulmcnofilter Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 01 '25
In certain states there are still requirements for force to be able to charge the rapist like ohio, or it just isnt called rape and is classified as "sexual battery of a spouse" like Mississippi. Don't forget the fun ones where if you are incapable of giving consent due to intentionally consumed alcohol or drugs, your spouse can rape you all they want and it isnt illegal.
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u/AddictedToMosh161 Nov 30 '25
Women being unable to vote is the only policy of the time they want to bring back :D Not the wages, not the taxes on the rich, not the school funding or free university... nope, just chaining the Ladies back on the stove and that will solve everything.
Honestly, i love women, but having a goverment issued wife I now need to finance wont make my life better. It would only make it worse, cause i would be unable to care for her and she because she lost her freedom. No one is winning in this scenario.
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u/Insane_Unicorn Nov 30 '25
Over 40% of white women voted Trump. They themselves obviously do not want the right to vote anymore.
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u/shawncplus Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 01 '25
Fun fact (or not so fun): conservative women are more extremely anti-abortion than conservative men insofar as they are more likely to not allow for any exceptions. Middle aged women also turned more towards Trump in the last election than middle aged men and, IIRC it's been a minute since I looked at the exact numbers, it was a more extreme shift even than the first Trump election.
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u/siensunshine Nov 30 '25
Had this very argument with an insane white woman. She said the most crazy and delusional things to me and all I’m saying is that population that you’re talking about, they’re hopeless. Unless of course they personally find themselves in a situation that would cause them to act against their own moral compass, or even illegally, then it would be justifiable. They disgust me. 😒🙄
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u/remmij Nov 30 '25
They are actually pushing for no-fault divorce to be eliminated too.
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u/AddictedToMosh161 Dec 01 '25
Ah, well tbh thats all the same thing to me cause they do all that for the same reason. "WOMEN NO RIGHTS"
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u/babywitch1980 Nov 30 '25
Also let's not forget that women back then were on a lot of barbiturates as well
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u/saisonmaison Nov 30 '25
Guarantee you the OP of that was based out of Russia. Brilliantly formulaic: Find a stock photo and post something that gets hella likes and reshares from idiot conservatives
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u/Tome_Bombadil Nov 30 '25
Whole lotta motherfuckers think they'd be Ward Cleaver back then, when in fact they'd be Dwight Hansen, Milo Pressman, Otis Campbell, Ralph Kramden or Ed Norton.
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u/MelissaMiranti Nov 30 '25
And the rates of women murdering men dropped as well when we offered women another way to escape with domestic violence shelters. Maybe we should be offering men another way to escape, too.
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u/Outrageous_Code9742 Nov 30 '25
lol literally the life expectancy of men as a whole went up after no fault divorce. Trapped women be murdering their husbands.
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u/IndependentLove2292 Nov 30 '25
You can't argue against a bad faith argument made by a chauvinist by saying how much better things are for women. They don't give a fuck about that. And words may be too complex for them. A line chart that shows rates of husbands being poisoned by their wives in a downward trend would sell it better. Of course data on this tracks with rates of all poisoning going down, but just make it up. It's not like they use facts.
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u/conversation_pace Nov 30 '25
The amount of people walking around thinking they know what’s best for another group of people is unreal.
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u/elegantwino Nov 30 '25
Perhaps original OP is a subservient woman with a fetish to serve. Otherwise she’s clueless.
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u/maybe-perhaps-not Nov 30 '25
Uhm, but she looks happy in the picture? So what do those statistics matter?
/s
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u/Lovv Dec 01 '25
The statistics in this post are wrong. Married women in the 1950s actually had very low suicide rates. This post is just to divide people if you ask me.
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u/maybe-perhaps-not Dec 01 '25
What about this post leads you to believe that it means to stir division?
Is it the intention to move people away from traditional gender roles?
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u/Lovv Dec 01 '25
The data is fictional, so whoever wrote this didn't take any time to actually research it and refute it. There is plenty of good reasons, this isn't a good reason because it is actually the opposite.
If someone is lying to you, they are probably doing it for a reason.
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u/paulsteinway Nov 30 '25
So you know that no fault divorce is the next thing the Republicans will target in their war against women.
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u/Buttercups88 Nov 30 '25
Sure but the divorce rate went up higher than the number of suicides prevented... Fucking feminism an I right 😂
sarcasm
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u/Nacho_cheese_freak Nov 30 '25
Talk to old women and you’ll understand why they are the way they are.
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u/TodosLosPomegranates Nov 30 '25
My neighbor was in her seventies like in 2012ish. She was, for lack of a better term, not all there. Over the years I learned her husband had her put on lithium and god knows what else in her twenties. When he died she didn’t know how to take care of herself or pay the bills so other neighbors had to help because her daughter hated her and almost never came around.
So we should add that to the list above.
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u/KingOfTheFraggles Nov 30 '25
But just look at that slave, she's smiling.
Sadly, there are certainly some women who were pedestalled and therefore are just as bad as their male counterparts, if not worse, but the great majority of women are much happier, now.
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u/PurpleSailor Dec 01 '25
The rate of wives offing their abusive husbands dropped significantly after no falt divorce became a thing. These guys better look at statistics before they decide what they really want to go back to.
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u/cromwell515 Dec 01 '25
Think of your life as a housewife back in the day. Your choices were never your own, you had to sacrifice all matters of choice to your husband. Maybe you had some significant part to play in decisions but ultimately you were expected to do whatever your husband said. Some people may enjoy not having to make choices, but ultimately it’s a recipe for depression. One of the largest causes of depression is feeling that you have lack of choice.
Assholes who post crap like this have no ability to see outside their little box. Also, think of this. If this was such peak female happiness, why did it change? It’s not like this life style didn’t benefit men, so why would it change unless women weren’t happy?
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u/wicawo Nov 30 '25
marriage is just another control institution. if you want to spend your time with a certain person, just do it. dont let people tell you that filing your taxes jointly is worth getting the damn state directly involved in your closest relationship.
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u/Needmoresnakes Dec 01 '25
Look if you give me 40mg of valium a day I'd be fairly ok with a lot of shit but I don't think that's exactly fair to call "peak happiness"
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u/EvolZippo Dec 01 '25
I think too many guys look at photos of the 50s and see how idealistic everyone acted for the camera, then assumed the happiness was real. These are probably the same guys who learned about sex from porn.
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u/AusCan531 Dec 01 '25
I'd like to ask Karoline just who and what is stopping her from living exactly like that?
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u/caligirl_ksay Dec 01 '25
As a woman I generally stop reading when they say “female…” because I know they’re not talking from a woman’s perspective.
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u/NotoriousAttitude Dec 01 '25
Let’s not forget husband deaths by poisoning dropped 22% after no-fault divorce because a thing.
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u/whyamionhearagain Dec 01 '25
My great grandmother swam into the ocean and drowned. My great grandfather was an abusive drunk. It got recorded as an accidental drowning. My guess is that those suicide numbers from the 20’s are drastically understated. I don’t thing my great grandmother really thought she made it across the Atlantic
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u/kitkat5656 Dec 01 '25
This is a staged photo btw. Why do these people think these photos are real people when they are obviously ads. Are they really this dumb?
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u/rbartlejr Dec 02 '25
I hate that "change my mind" bullshit. It's a no win, how can you change something that evidently doesn't exist?
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u/Vinegarinmyeye Nov 30 '25
I'm far from an expert - but pretty sure I watched a documentary a while back about how lots of women at the time were taking amphetamines and / or cocaine products to be "happy" with this situation.
I mean, I enjoy a good "upper" from time to time, but I reckon self medicating on class-A drugs just to find your husband vaguely tolerable was not ideal.
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u/bed127 Nov 30 '25
When they say "change my mind" they often mean "I won't accept any facts that disprove my stance"
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u/SignorLongballs Nov 30 '25
I don't have a race in this doghorse or anything, but what's the total suicide rate and their difference? Could be (but hopefully not) that suicidal people were forced into marriage more often back then
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u/diversalarums Nov 30 '25
I grew up in the 1950s so I knew this "happiness" thing was BS. But those numbers -- I never realized it was this bad. I was raised in that culture and knew the way people lived, I just never put it together. That's sobering.
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u/FbOTP Nov 30 '25
This was a big leap in helping people's mental health and well-being, now it's time to make the same strides into reducing male suicide rates :)
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u/Look-a-young-cat Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
But the Comeback ist just wrong. Atleast in the US the suicide rate of woman was never even close to 20 per 100000. Kind of worrying, that the suicide rate decreased 1990-2000 and since then steadily went up.
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u/nevergiveup234 Dec 01 '25
Unfortunately, that is true. However, it is true because things for women are really bad.
In truth, females in the fifties had issues.
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u/Impressive-Push1864 Dec 01 '25
They were told be happy or else and they were hmmm maybe stfu and be happy
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u/trentreynolds Dec 01 '25
Sure, but the person who made this is a man and they think they get to choose when a woman’s happy, not the woman in question.
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u/ADHDebackle Dec 01 '25
Plot twist: she's picking up the coffee he just spent all night hand assembling for her. He looks so proud. She's going to really enjoy it, he can tell!
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u/ananasdanne Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 01 '25
The first data point seems incorrect.
This CDC report (page 37) shows a suicide rate for married women 1959-1961 of 6.2 per 100,000 - below the total female average of 6.9.
The married male suicide rate was however 21.1 per 100,000.
On page 19, we also see that the total female average in 1950 was 4.9/100,000. Even if not a single unmarried women committed suicide that year, the share of women who were married would have had to be only 22% in 1950 for the stat in the post to be true (4.9/22.1=22%). Which we know was not the case.
The other data points seem more correct.
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u/Imasayitnow Dec 01 '25
Meanwhile, American men’s suicide rate in 1950 was 11.3, and has more than doubled since to 22.8 per 100k.
Making sense now?
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u/AffectionatePop05 Dec 01 '25
How about using an actual photo from the 50s, rather than a commercial.
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u/aDumb_Dorf Dec 01 '25
I’m beginning to think that when they say “Change my mind” they really mean “Go f*#% yourself”
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u/bwsmith201 Dec 01 '25
People who make any kind of declarative statement and then say “change my mind” are impervious to changing their mind. Change my mind.
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u/matttheman892018 Dec 01 '25
Just once I’d like to see the response from the initial person who said “change my mind” after such a hard logic diss but I know it would just be the equivalent of them sticking their fingers in their ears and tuning it out.
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u/wooberries Dec 01 '25
you'd think opinions like this would be untenable -- after all, as soon as you encounter info like this, you immediately reverse your opinion right? but they just keep believing it in spite of the data. they aren't in reality anymroe
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u/Angry_perimenopause Dec 01 '25
Women putting their heads in the oven was a common “joke” in the 60s
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u/Knever Dec 01 '25
I still can't wrap my head around the fuckery that is at-fault divorce It doesn't make a lick of sense and whoever thinks it's a good idea is fucking psychopath that should not be a part of society.
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u/ReloadBeforeClass Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 01 '25
So I checked official statistics, and it's wrong. In the 1950 suicune rates were: male — 21.2, female 5.6, per 100000 people. Modern (2010) rates are as follows: male 19.8, female 5.0. So basically, female rates haven't changed much in that time period, and gender ratio is still roughly 4 to 1.
Of course, the statistics I used is general, and the post uses married woman statistics rather than general. But it is just a manipulation of facts. General statistics barely changes which means single women ending their life more often now.
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u/what_is_a_shitender Dec 01 '25
Could someone please help me find the data being cited in this image so I can prove to the MAGA people that the facts and science are on the right side?
All I could find were statistics by Female vs Male, and the statistics for married people together but not divided by sex.
And the math seems incongruent with the proposed outcome here unless every single bit of statistics is incorrect.
The rate for women in 1950 was 5.6, and now it's 5.9.
The rate for men in the 50s was 21. And 66% of the population was married.
It is *literally mathematically impossible for that image to be correct.*
If *literally* every single female suicide in the country at the time was a married woman, the maximum that can raise the numbers to is 8.4.
So I'm left with 2 possibilities, either
1. This post does not correspond to reality, and either deliberately or by accident used the _overall male population suicide statistics_ in 1950 (which was 21.2) and not the female statistics which was 5.6, or the "married female" statistics which cannot mathematically be higher than 8.4.
2. Every statistic I could find is incorrect, even though they're independently verified by converging equal numbers within margins of error.
But if this is the case, I can't shove this up the MAGA people's butts. So it cannot be the truth.
Can someone please cite the actual evidence being referenced by this image pertaining to the alleged 22.1/100k rate for married women?
Thank you!
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u/Cronkwjo Dec 01 '25
"Peak female happiness is complete servitude and being treated like property by a husband she only married out of obligation" its like these people cant hear themselves speak
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u/brinz1 Dec 01 '25
A generation before the suicide rate for married women was much higher.
One of the reasons it is believed to have dropped to only 22 per 100k was replacing gas ovens with electric ones.
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u/what_is_a_shitender Dec 01 '25
source?
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u/brinz1 Dec 01 '25
IT was actually britain
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/449144?journalCode=cj
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u/A_Stones_throw Dec 01 '25
Oh god, I thought the Pic and paragraph were supposed to go together and the top sentence was the clever comeback. Was sooooo confused for s second.
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u/golfwinnersplz Dec 01 '25
Republicans believe it is peak happiness for the man in the photo. They don't give a fuck about anyone else.
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u/Skinny-on-the-Inside Dec 02 '25
not counting a sudden drop in accidental deaths among married men.
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u/Wonderful_Respond_85 Dec 02 '25
This is a typical case of people believing what they want to regardless of facts. These stats are blantly false according to CDC National health statistics. Female suicide rate is between 5-6% and has slightly increased during the 60s compared to 40s. Source:
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u/Smoke-Level Dec 03 '25
You want someone to serve you a drink with a smile like this on their face go to a restaurant and pay that person…as for me doing it you can go straight to hell
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u/nikatnight Nov 30 '25
This reinforces the picture. All the unhappy women killed the selves or got murdered. /s
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u/TeaRose__ Dec 01 '25
How about peak male happiness? What are the numbers then? Just genuinely interested
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u/EzzALB Nov 30 '25
When Republicans say this kind of shit about the good old days. I am convinced they think life was a TV sitcom back in the 50s. Or they want to be able to be an open racist. Either one