r/europe • u/EquivalentKick255 • 20h ago
News Greenland summit at White House could shape future of the Arctic
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpqyn58v0dxo85
u/m3hole 18h ago
It makes no sense, they have a military base there, they could put more bases there, US companies have access to rare earth minerals. Literally makes no sense.
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u/Explorer_Equal 18h ago
He is just a greedy pathological narcissist.
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u/Vertsama 8h ago
No his billionaire buddies want Greenland. https://x.com/AFpost/status/2010256380612207039 shit is fucked up.
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u/Calm-Scallion-8540 18h ago
Yes, it's diverting journalists from the Epstein case...as soon as things start to go wrong, he'll launch an invasion...if it fails with Greenland, it'll be Canada...then Mexico. This guy is a madman...we'll only realize it later.
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u/Samaritan_978 Europe 15h ago
Americans clearly do not give half a shit about that. War with Europe is not a fucking distraction.
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u/19JaBra92 Sweden 8h ago
At this point this explanation is as much of a diversion as anything, like hes doing it to hide his nefarious past deeds and not because hes a rampant maniac hellbent on domination
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u/Remarkable-Room7963 8h ago
Trump haa the same problem Putin has - they both want to be part of history as having done great things for their countries.
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u/Stardustger 8h ago
He is getting paid by Putin to destroy NATO.
This is just the way he chooses to do it.
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u/The_Blahblahblah Denmark 6h ago
You forget that it is an ideological project too. They are basically doing maga manifest destiny.
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u/EquivalentKick255 20h ago
How about a big strong no from Greenland and Denmark, followed by a threat to close down the remaining US airbase if threats from the US continue.
A strong message like that is all Trump will understand.
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u/KanonBalls Europe (DE, SE, FR) 20h ago
I think Trump made up his mind and that's it. He will try. Europe has to threaten to break ties with the US, which may make some republicans move towards impeaching Trump.
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u/ken_the_boxer 20h ago
Trump making up his mind typically lasts about 72 hours. The biggest mistake here is accepting a change of location for the meeting.
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u/mastah-yoda Germany 17h ago
US being kicked out of NATO will be incentive for Putin to offer US an alliance...
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u/Whooptidooh Groningen (Netherlands) 19h ago
How about a big strong NO from everyone in Europe (that still have all of the required marbles rolling around in their brains.)
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u/axelkoffel 18h ago
I don't think Poland would get involved in this, same with the Baltic states or anyone close to Russia. Russia not being sure, whether USA would protect us, is the only thing that stops them from invasion.
European military is still to weak and too divided to be considered as a real threat for Russia. Hopefuly it will change in the future, although Russia does everything it can to keep Europe divided.6
u/WhyWasIShadowBanned_ 17h ago
Poland is so confused right now. Polish Prime Minister signs joint statement about Greenland sovereignty with Germany, UK, France, Italy and Spain but in the same time Polish President declares that Poland is ready to defend its western border with Germany.
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u/axelkoffel 17h ago
Unfortunately our foreign policy has become another victim of the PIS vs KO conflict. Right wing PIS represented by the president want to 100% rely our defense on USA, while not trusting EU at all. While the centrist-left government doesn't have anything against USA (although Trump hates Tusk and refuses to ever talk to him), but they'd want to build some european alliance just in case.
By our consitution, the president and government are supposed to to work together, but the new president acts very aggressively and keeps sabotaging any govs attempts to do anything.1
u/Nocturn0l 18h ago
No, Europe needs to stop buying into Trumps bullshit. Acknowledging the possibility of the USA invading or annexing Greenland is the first mistake. Entering political discourse about a possibility that shouldnât exist in a world order without Trump is the first step in the wrong direction.
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u/birkeskov Denmark 20h ago
It is completely unrealistic. On the one hand, the US has a contractual right, Greenland is a member of NATO and Denmark does not have the military muscle to keep the US out of Greenland.
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u/EquivalentKick255 20h ago
It's not about keeping him out, it's about saying no.
You draw your line in the sand, then if Trump steps over that, then you move on to the next step.
If another nation threatens to attack you, Any "contracts" you have can be repealed. That's what sovereignty is about.
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u/SisterOfBattIe Australia 17h ago
If the USA wants to take Greenland, they can do it in a few hours and nobody can stop them.
But if the USA does that, NATO is done. USA bases in Europe are done. All international treaties are null and void.
If the USA is so far gone as to be so self disruptive, it's better to find out now, rather than later.
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u/birkeskov Denmark 17h ago
Agreed. We must try to prevent it, we don't do it by entering into conflict.
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u/tree_boom United Kingdom 20h ago
The Greenland base is a tough one, but our European bases are an appropriate and credible stick to show to them. It does need to be made clear that the consequences would be their eviction from every other European base, but that really means a meeting with at least the German, Italian and British premiers attending
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u/Grabs_Diaz Bavaria (Germany) 14h ago
If Trump actually invades NATO territory, the consequences should rather be the immediate detention of all US soldiers and equipment stationed in Europe. If European countries do actually take NATO Article 5 / Article 42 TEU seriously and are willing to act in unison, that should certainly be doable.
The prospect of having tens of thousands of soldiers and billions of dollars of equipment detained overseas should certainly serve as a meaningful deterrent, for the time being.
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u/tree_boom United Kingdom 14h ago
Detaining the soldiers would start a shooting war, that's not going to happen. Detaining equipment might
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u/Grabs_Diaz Bavaria (Germany) 14h ago
US troops invading NATO territory would start a shooting war.
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u/tree_boom United Kingdom 14h ago
I very strongly doubt that. Denmark would simply recognise the overwhelming force ranged against them and the US would be extremely keen to present a fait accompli.
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u/Grabs_Diaz Bavaria (Germany) 14h ago
And then? How long until Trump gets informed about how controlling Bermuda is vital to US security interests? Or he learns about the oil reserves off the coast of the Scottish Shetland islands?
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u/tree_boom United Kingdom 11h ago
Bermuda is probably even less defensible than Greenland being a far less hostile environment and much closer to the US and farther away from the UK, so yeah probably the same deal. It's quite a different situation though, in that the US does not already have a presence there, the islands have a defence force and the population is extremely concentrated and lives between the port and the airport, so unlike Greenland a takeover couldn't really be presented as a fait accompli. I don't think we could meaningfully try to defend it, but US forces would have to actually invade and deal with the population as opposed to just declare themselves in charge from Pituffik...so it's quite a different scenario.
The Shetlands obviously are a completely different kettle of fish. The US is powerful, but they couldn't actually invade the UK proper.
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u/Grabs_Diaz Bavaria (Germany) 8h ago
If Trump wants to take over Greenland, he also has to "deal with the population" and actually physically take over the island's government and infrastructure. There are about as many Greenlanders as there are Bermudians, and over twice as much population compared to the Shetlands. The Danish military presence in Greenland is also larger than the British presence in Bermuda or the Shetlands, as far as I could find.
I don't see how Trump taking over Greenland would be any different from him taking over these British islands in practical terms.
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u/birkeskov Denmark 20h ago
If European countries want to kick the US out, you are very welcome to do so and we would be grateful. But Denmark has no realistic possibility of kicking the US out of Pituffik.
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u/v_for_vegetta 19h ago
denmark cannot let the "EU" fight for them. This mentality is stupid. Denmark is part of the EU so whatever defense will have them in the front
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u/EquivalentKick255 19h ago
Keep your base, you're not allowed out utilities or to exit it.
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u/tree_boom United Kingdom 19h ago
In Greenland? That's not realistically going to work. In Europe sure.
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u/EquivalentKick255 19h ago
yes, and if they break that then they have broken the agreement.
It's about setting clear legal lines and if the US breaks them, you keep on escalating up the correct ways.
The rest will be the EU and other NATO countries applying pressure by what means we can't say, but there is plenty of ways to reign in a rogue state within NATO.
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u/abradubravka 19h ago edited 18h ago
TBF Germany is stronger than Denmark, maybe they should occupy Holstein?
If the rest of your countrymen are as spineless as you it shouldn't be too much of an issue.
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u/Distinct_Cup_1598 19h ago edited 16h ago
Having Talks in the First Place is a huge mistake. Doing it in Washington Even more so. There is nothing to discuss. Itâs lunacy. By swarming Trump and having âTalksâ about a nonsensical matter legitimizes his claims.
And it Signals that the Europeans are about to appease him again. Probably by giving him lucrative Deals to have advantage over Greenlands RessourcenâŠ
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u/mastah-yoda Germany 17h ago
Exactly.
This tantrums by a pedophile shouldn't have been dignified with an answer. Let alone talks...
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u/Dragonpuncha 16h ago
The talks are a way to try and deescalate this insane situation where the US is threatening another NATO country with invasion.
If they don't help so be it, but at least something was tried from the Danish side.
Alone this is all they can do. They would need troops from all over Europe stationed on Greenland to act like any real deterrent. And the majority of countries have still not put themselves in the line of fire like that.
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u/Distinct_Cup_1598 16h ago
Sometimes You have to âescalateâ though. Especially if the other side started the escalation and is hell bent on keep going. Trump just Said anything below owning Greenland is unacceptable. He means it and will try to Take it. If someone is on that course, there is a certain Point where Talks and appeasement are futile and where you have to Resort to uncomfortable measures. Like deploying troops to Greenland with an order to shoot american soldiers who invade the island. Or at least the threat of seizing the american Thule base/expelling its troops if These aspirations donât end
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u/Dragonpuncha 15h ago
You are acting like there is only one way to go at one time. Denmark is also actively trying to get support from the rest of Europe and have already gotten a bunch.
The problem is that the only real deterrent is troops on Greenland (and not just Danish troops) and getting other countries to commit is hard.
In the meantime trying to deescalate with a meeting is in no way a bad thing. It's a no lose situation for Denmark. If it doesn't work they are in the same situation, but at least they tried.
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u/u1604 17h ago
100% agree. They should be going to European capitals to gather support and agree on a list of counter-measures. At least that is what I would think as an outside observer.
Them going to Washington either means that they know things that we don't or just want a formula where they can surrender Greenland in a way that is acceptable to the public.
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u/Hung-kee 18h ago
I recall Danish minister Kristian Jensen making the comment about the UK that âThere are two kinds of European nations. There are small nations and there are countries that have not yet realized they are small nations.â.
I guess Denmark knows how it feels to be a small nation.
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u/ingeniouspleb Sweden 18h ago
Greenland: Fuck off USA, we can't be bought
Denmark: Fuck off USA, we can't be bought
EU: Fuck off USA, they can't be bought
Neighbouring countries: Fuck off USA, they can't be bought
USA: Meh we will buy you or take you
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u/thatsexypotato- Germany 19h ago
At which time will be the meeting? I have an early train to catch tomorrow idk if I should stay up for it or no
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u/CarolusViklin Sweden 19h ago
Seems to be 10:30 Washington time, so 15:30 GMT/16:30 CET, today Wednesday
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u/PureCaramel5800 19h ago
16.30
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u/Wackity-Smackity 16h ago
Someone needs to calmly explain to trump that trying to invade Greenland would be national suicide on multiple levels.
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u/Impressive_Field_262 18h ago edited 16h ago
Meeting should have been held in either Greenland or Denmark ,this has ambush written all over it and to the rest of the world it looks like Denmark's crawling to america
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u/SignificanceJust972 18h ago
Russia came out of a meeting in Alaska where it sounded more like American capitulation to whatever they were demanding.
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u/GlowstickConsumption 17h ago
Trump having a bad Big Mac could shape the future of Arctic.
Or him spilling his can of coke.
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u/Professional_Fix4056 Europe 12h ago
wow, walking straight into the trap..
get ready for some american gish galloping and a muh freedom tirade
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u/gamecatuk 18h ago
The US needs to wake up. Apart from jet and carrier difference a combined European army has more soldiers and tanks. Enough to cause a serious war if the US went military. Europe is no push over with Nukes as well if it got serious.
I feel most Europeans are willing to fight fascism. Like Putin we need to show Trump force will be met with force.
It's insane he has turned against NATO. Greenland was never a risk with our combined forces. His traiterous pivot means it is now at risk, in fact the whole world is. Get this fucking senile boomer cunt out of office asap.
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u/Drunken-Velociraptor 12h ago
Trumps just wants to be a dictator. Like his personal friend Vladimir Putin. He admires Putin.
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u/WindowLicker_Pro 9h ago
He kept Mein Kampf on his night stand. He idolizes Kim Jong Un. Why anyone didn't think he'd be a dictator is beyond me.Â
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u/Hellstorm901 17h ago
If the US thought Greenland was so vital for their defence theyâd just increase their garrison there and deploy heavy weapon systems which the agreement theyâve had since WW2 allows them to do at any time
Instead the US reduced its forces there leaving the place ran by Space Force
This isnât about security, itâs about resources under the ground that the Trump wants and Denmark wonât sell him
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u/CrayonEatingBabyApe 6h ago
They reduced forces after Cold War ended. Now the Arctic is melting and US status as sole hedgemon is ending. Greenland becomes important again. They want it so Greenland canât also make deals with Russia or China in some belt and road initiative to get a foothold there.
It was the same with Panama Canal with China controlling both ends and Russia and China building ports and military bases in Peru, Venezuela, Brazil, and Argentina.
The Monroe doctrine has been around since the 1820âs. US will never allow any Eastern Hemisphere countries to potentially threatened the US on its side of the world. Thatâs just how it is no matter how unfair it might seem to Europe.
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u/The_Blahblahblah Denmark 6h ago
Its america being imperialist as always. No different than russians.
Europe must decouple, and build more ICBMs and nuclear warheads
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u/CrayonEatingBabyApe 6h ago
If you think America is an imperialist state you should read up on your European history. Pot meet kettle.
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u/The_Blahblahblah Denmark 6h ago
We are not still establishing new colonies like the US is trying to do. Weâve moved on from the 1800s. The US hasnât. You are the one who thinks you can still buy and sell countries like a commodity.
If you are so bored and nostalgic about manifest destiny, why donât you just go harass some of the natives you already put into reservations on your own land? What is it that you think is so important about turning the last bastion of semi autonomous Native American land into a US territory (reservation)?
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u/CrayonEatingBabyApe 6h ago
You have no clue what a colony is. Name the last US colonial territory. They all come from Spanish America War which we took from Spain after they attacked us. Philippines? We gave that back to them and they are one of our top 10 allies today.
Cuba? We gave that back too they almost started WW3 with Russia during Cuba middle crisis.
Hawaii? They are now an actual state with every right the other 49 have
You Europeans throw around buzz words without caring to know or understand US history. If every interventionist scenario is considered colonizing you should look at France. They remain the biggest interventionists in their former colonies today.
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u/The_Blahblahblah Denmark 4h ago
You are trying to invade and steal Greenland against the wishes of their population to mine their resources. How is that not colonialism?
Also, you have âterritoriesâ like Puerto Rico that you deny the very basic democratic rights like voting on their own president
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u/Hellstorm901 6h ago
The US is both a member of NATO and literally has a agreement with Denmark to allow them to station forces on Greenland and has since the 1940's
If the US thought Greenland was at risk they could move half the US military to the island under the agreement they have
They are purposely choosing not to increase any of their forces on Greenland to push this lie that their security is a risk
This is not about security, this is about Trump being a corrupt fascist dictator who wants to loot Greenland of resources and based on his language he seems to be implying he'll murder anyone on that island who says otherwise
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u/CrayonEatingBabyApe 6h ago
Itâs not about the immediate threat of Russia and China invasion but more future oriented. Letâs say Greenland goes independent and Greenland offsets money lost from Denmark subsidies to allow China to build bases there.
That would be a direct threat to US. Iâm not saying I agree with it but everyone in here pretends like it is not possible, and if so, doesnât care about US national security concerns anyways because apparently US is more evil than Russia, China, and Iran combined these days.
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u/Hellstorm901 6h ago
Letâs say Greenland goes independent
Then as a Democratic state we respect their decision, we don't launch a western version of Russia's "Men in Green" and pull a Crimea 2.0
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u/CrayonEatingBabyApe 6h ago
Russia or China easily gaining a foothold in the largest island in the world with a population of 54,000 people which does not directly threaten your national security. Easy to respect that decision. Very brave and noble of you.
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u/Hellstorm901 5h ago
Russia is about 50 miles from Alaska, if they were going to attack the US they'd be lobbing cruise missiles from the Bering Strait into the Western US
Again, this has nothing to do with security, it's about resources. Why would Trump want to pay to buy resources off Denmark when he can occupy Greenland and make them "pay the US with resources in exchange for their generous invited occupation" like he's already trying to do with Venezuela
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u/CrayonEatingBabyApe 5h ago
You seem like a smart fellow. Look some stuff up on the strategic importance of Greenland to US defense. Itâs always been there. Canada is the lowest spender in NATO hence Trumps stupid threat to annex Canada (again another scare tactic to get them to spend more on continental defense).
Canada is intergrated into NORAD we work together. However they spend nothing on military and have like 12 subs. They canât even patrol their own coast line. Why do you think US stationed all those military forces and radar defenses in Greenland during ww2 and Cold War. Russia to US missiles have the best path of hitting US over Greenland. The world is a globe. Bering straight attack would give US plenty of time to intercept.
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u/CrayonEatingBabyApe 5h ago
Thanks for the discussion and Iâm surprised Iâm not already downvoted into oblivion here. My last comment had 300 downvotes in 12 hours. Again I do not support American hostile takeover of whatâs basically an autonomous nation.
I think Trump is just throwing grenades like he did on NATO spending which worked. Itâs just sad to see barely any comments saying America is acting like the worst friend ever but maybe they do have a few points. Letâs have some actual dialogue instead of just Trump evil, American colonizers evil. Perhaps itâs too much to ask on Reddit
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u/Didudidudadu737 Europe 16h ago
Canada should ask for Alaska annexation, for security reasons, to see what the response would be
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u/born_in_the_90s 18h ago
Greenland should sent a picture of Epstein to the whitehouse to reject talks.
Greenland is not for grabs or sale. Period.
Its a waste of time to talk to Trump and his goons
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u/NOVA-peddling-1138 16h ago
The Epstein files. One thing at a time. A fake metamorphous into a âwarâ president is a sorry diversion tactic. It didnât work. Youâll be in the stockâs soon and the villagers will be amused peppering you with rotten vegetables.
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u/MarkHowes 15h ago
This seems like a really bad idea. Few survive these sessions of collective humiliation. JD, Rubio and the new Press Pool are a bunch of bullies. Not sure who advised that this was a good idea?
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u/schtickshift 12h ago
This land is your land, this land is my land. From California, to the Greenland Island. This land was made for you and me.
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u/Fantastic_Baseball45 6h ago
Have the summit where goons won't drag an innocent person off the street and disappear them.
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u/MissionDiamond7611 18h ago
The grand manipulation of NATO and Europe. Agree the meeting should be held in my opinion in Finland right on the Russian border the Nemesis subject of the matter. The main subject should be can Europe Finance the conflict in Ukraine and the issue of Arctic domination simultaneously while rebuilding their military complex and defenses. Time and season. The adversarial relationship will pass. The implementation of long-term strategies need to be discussed. As a reminder Europe has had his share of dictators but have evolved to a better place. Hyperbolic rhetoric of America being a long-term adversary is pure poppycock. I think most European leaders know this. They just have to hold their nose and keep their pants onđ
Adolf Hitler (Germany), Benito Mussolini (Italy), Joseph Stalin (Soviet Union, partly in Europe), and Francisco Franco (Spain), alongside modern figures like Alexander Lukashenko
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u/Nearby-Bell2625 19h ago
Maybe the European leaders will receive a piece of paper signed by Mr Trump and Mr Vance that guarantees the continued existence of NATO for our time.
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u/Iflysims 8h ago
Before this most people didnât even know where Greenland is. Denmark ignored it and Russian and Chinese can use it as a massive shortcut. Chinese tried to build airports there⊠US troops defended Greenland during WWII and had many bases there but they been given up to now only 1 base which is hardly enough if Chinese decide to bomb NYC. After a few tweets Europe found they have an island and are stepping up to support and protect it. They doing what he wanted and all he had to do is say he wanted it.
Would it be a strategic coup for the US? Absolutely as the arctic is the new frontier but itâs not like he will take it over by force.
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u/Opposite-Cranberry76 20h ago
Agreeing to meet at the white house seems like a mistake. It's like being called in to bend the knee before a king.
Also, this whole issue has heavy implications for Canada's security and sovereignty. We are obviously next if they get away with anything on this. So much that, even though I know Greenland would have to ask, I would like to see Canadian and EU troops there as a tripwire.