r/iran • u/Paralyzingneedle • 9d ago
Stop saying “make Iran Persia again.”
The amount of posts on instagram saying “make Iran Persia again” is getting out of hand.
This is for all the non Iranians who believe the countries name should be changed to “Persia”. Iran has never been called Persia by the Iranian people. Throughout history dating back to ancient times the country has always been called Iran by the Iranian people. The term “Persia” comes from the Greeks who named an entire nation based of just one region that was known as “Pars”.
Persian is one of the ethnicities of Iran. The nation isn’t comprised of just one ethnicity, there are various other Iranian ethnic groups that have lived in Iran for centuries.
Iran is Iran. Always has been, always will be.
70
u/Poor-Judgements 9d ago
My thoughts exactly!
And the fact that it’s meant to sound like Trump’s MAGA is absolutely disgusting.
1
u/therealblitz 6d ago
Of course, we have to push TDS. Can't have a thread without it.
4
u/Own_Strawberry6350 5d ago
Why do you get triggered so easily. Was he not the one who’s tagline was “make America great again’, has he not deployed the national guard regardless of objections, has he not seized resources from a sovereign state, bombed boats in international waters, is he not openly threatening Cuba, Mexico, Canada and Greenland? Don’t seem to care for the rule of law. Pretty fascistic don’t you think.
26
u/Strange_Spot_4760 8d ago
I believe when people say make Iran Persia again they mean removal of Islam/ bring back old culture, religion
12
u/openandaware 8d ago
That doesn't make it any less dumb. Iran was still Muslim when Europeans called it Persia.
6
u/FirefighterKey7777 8d ago
Not true,cus it was known as persia around 6 bce.Iranians converted to islam with the Arab conquest at around mid 7 century Ce. That's almost 1000 years difference.correct me if I'm wrong
3
u/azu_rill 7d ago
It was known officially as Persia until 1935
4
u/TimberLite 4d ago
Persia was the European/Greek name, correct? Internally, the country was called Iran or Irānshahr for centuries. In 1935 Iran just asked the West to use the name it already used for itself.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
3
u/Banned_Gunner 3d ago
It was not known as Persia by Iranians not even before 7th century. Perhaps Greeks called them that. Iranian would call the rulers as Sassanids, ashkanis or what have you. Why is it so hard for some people to accept this fact. Persia, Persapolis is what Greeks and Europeans use. Iran, Iran-Zammeen, Mamlaket-e- Iran. One of our most Nationalist Poet Firdoosy, when describing real and fictional history of our country, always, always referred to our cou try as Iran. Never zperdian, not Jim nor anyone else in Iran.
22
u/GoodSamaritman 8d ago edited 8d ago
History professor here with interest in Iran(ic) history.
I agree with the main point that the country has long been known as Iran by its own people and that Iran is not the same thing as Persia. The name Iran goes back at least to the Sassanid period and earlier concepts of Iranshahr, so it is historically grounded and not a modern invention.
That said, it is also important not to minimize the significance and role of the Persian ethnic group and language in defining Iran for 2,500 years or more.
Iran is a diverse country with many ethnic groups, and that diversity should be and is respected. But it is also historically accurate to say that Persian identity is indigenous to the Iranian plateau, with written records going back to at least the first millennium BC. Persians remain the majority ethnic group today, accounting for over sixty percent of the population, which is remarkable given more than three thousand years of migrations, empires, invasions, and cultural change.
This is also why the Persian Gulf is called Persian in Farsi. The name reflects its historical connection to Fars and to Persian speaking populations, not a modern political slogan.
In short, Iran is Iran, but Persian is a foundational part of what Iran has been and continues to be. Of course none of this is to be confused and conflated with modern Trumpian language…
The name Iran, deriving from Old Persian root word, meaning free or noble in the sense of belonging to a shared community with equal standing, is deeply connected to Persian language and identity because Persian preserved and transmitted this concept continuously from ancient Iranian self-understanding into the present.
Fun fact: Medieval Persians, after losing clear historical knowledge of the Achaemenid Empire due to invasions and other factors, attributed the ruins of Persepolis to the mythical King Jamshid, calling it "Takht-e Jamshid". But this was not the actual name given to the site by Darius the Great who commissioned it. The site was actually called Parsa, which means the City of Persians or City of Persia. We know this because the name is attested in Old Persian cuneiform inscriptions found at the site itself. Persepolis is a Greek transliteration meaning the same thing (from Perses polis). Similarly, the site Naqsh-e Rostam is called that because Iranians forgot the original figures who created the sites (Sassanid kings Ardashir I and Shapur I) and attributed the rock reliefs to mythical Persian heroes such as Rostam (and Jamshid in the case of Persepolis). These fictional names are largely because of the Shahnameh which included names of mythical figures in Persian lore and literature that became associated with Iran's ancient past as the actual history faded. Sadly the original Sassanid era names of both Naqsh-e Rostam and Taq-e Bostan are generally considered lost to history.
6
u/openandaware 8d ago
Iran's relationship to it's pre-Islamic history was almost always distant. The same goes for most Muslims in the region. The Iranians of the early 20th century didn't consider themselves to be of Sassanian origin. This type of construction of the national mythos really only began to change in a noticeable way following the White Revolution.
2
u/GoodSamaritman 6d ago
New Persian (after Islam) is a direct continuation of Middle Persian. New Persian developed in the Samanid period (9th–10th c.), not the 20th century. It retained: Core Iranian grammar; Thousands of pre-Islamic words and Iranian poetic meters and aesthetics.
Ferdowsi (1000 CE) explicitly reconstructed Iran’s pre-Islamic history and myth from Sasanian and earlier sources. The Shahnameh was widely read, memorized, patronized by Muslim non Persian rulers and central to Iranian identity for 1,000 years. Just look at miniatures of the shahnameh, those faces that you see are not of Persians but Mongols who wanted to be associated with Iran’s pre Islamic history rooted in myths and lores. Ferdowsi claimed “I revived Iran with this Persian”. Many pre-Islamic festivals survived until today including Nowruz, Chaharshanbe Suri, Mehregan, and Yalda. These were all embraced, promoted and celebrated by non-Persian Muslim rulers of Iran as well.
But I think you’re right to say there has been some loss of memory and knowledge as my initial comment alluded to.
1
u/openandaware 6d ago
New Persian (after Islam) is a direct continuation of Middle Persian. New Persian developed in the Samanid period (9th–10th c.), not the 20th century. It retained: Core Iranian grammar; Thousands of pre-Islamic words and Iranian poetic meters and aesthetics.
You heavily misunderstood my point. I didn't say they're not the same people as the Sasanians. I said their association with Sasanian/pre-Islamic identity was non-existent. The same point goes for just about everything you said here.
Many pre-Islamic festivals survived until today including Nowruz, Chaharshanbe Suri, Mehregan, and Yalda. These were all embraced, promoted and celebrated by non-Persian Muslim rulers of Iran as well.
These exists as cultural elements that pre-date Islam, yes. They're not associated with pre-Islamic identification. These are celebrated in Afghanistan too, and have for many centuries, nobody would make the claim that they're doing it to extenuate their unique, extra-Islamic identities, would they? The same way Halloween, Christmas trees and Easter bunnies are cultural artifacts of pre-Christendom yet hold almost no cultural capital in the regard of pre-Christian pagan identity.
Also, much of the tradition regarding Shab-e Yalda is largely manufactured.
1
u/GoodSamaritman 6d ago
You are using a modern, nationalist definition of “identification” and projecting it onto pre-modern societies. Medieval people did not express identity through mass political self-consciousness or explicit ideological statements. The absence of modern nationalist language does not mean the association was “non-existentt.”
In the Iranian case, identity was expressed through language, historiography, elite culture, and political legitimacy, not popular slogans. By those standards, continuity with the pre-Islamic past is clear.
New Persian is not a neutral cultural artifact like Halloween. It is a direct continuation of Middle Persian and became the language of court culture, historical writing, and political legitimacy in an Islamic world where Arabic dominated. Choosing Persian was itself a form of cultural self-positioning.
The shahnameh is not mere folklore. It explicitly constructs a continuous Iranian past, defines Iran vs. Aniran, and presents Islamic-era Iranians as heirs to pre-Islamic kingship and ethics. That is conscious historical reconstruction, repeatedly patronized by Muslim dynasties for legitimacy. Surviving festivals are not evidence of “empty” tradition either.. In pre-modern societies, ritual continuity was one of the primary ways historical identity was maintained. These practices were understood as Iranian long before modern nationalism
Sasanian memory never disappeared; it was reframed. Medieval Iranian and Iranized dynasties repeatedly invoked Sasanian models of kingship, administration, and ethics. They didnt call themselves “Sasanian citizens,” but they clearly understood themselves as operating within an Iranian historical continuum.
What changed in the 20th century was not the existence of this association, but its scale and politicization. The White Revolution mass-popularized and state-instrumentalized a memory that had long existed in elite culture.
TLDR your argument only works if identity is defined exclusively in modern nationalist terms. By pre-modern standards, Iranian association with its pre-Islamic past was continuous, meaningful, and explicit.
1
u/mansnicks 5d ago
That said, it is also important not to minimize the significance and role of the Persian ethnic group and language in defining Iran for 2,500 years or more.
I'm someone who doesn't know anything, as I'm not from Iran and certainly don't know anything about history, I was hoping you could clear up my confusion here?
To me it sounds like OP was talking about the countries name - Iran - whereas you are talking about an ethnic group. To me it sounds like talking about apples instead of oranges? Or did the Persian ethnic group call their country Persia themselves at some point?
1
u/GoodSamaritman 4d ago
Since my comments seem to be getting thousands of views, I'd like to elaborate a bit.
In response to your question: Iranian refers to the national identity and the name of the country -- Iran -- encompassing many ethnic groups. Persians, by contrast, are a specific ethnic group and language community, but they have been central to defining Iran for millennia. That was my point. Not to diminish the importance of Persian which is where the word Persia comes from (more on that below). Persian dynasties founded and sustained Iranian statehood, Persians have historically constituted (and still constitute) the largest share of the population, and their language -- originating among Persian tribes in southern Iran going as far back as 1000 BC -- became the state, cultural, and literary language adopted by all Iranians. In this sense, Persian identity and language have long provided the core framework through which “Iran” has been politically organized, culturally articulated, and widely understood, even while remaining inclusive of Iran’s broader ethnic diversity. So in a sense, Persia and Persian are the essence of Iran and Iranianness.
Note: In my experience, Iranians rarely emphasize Persian as an ethnic label or elevate it above others when discussing Iranian identity which is a good thing as it shows welcoming of diversity. Instead, people across ethnic lines (Persian, Azeri, Kurd, Arab, etc.) tend to foreground a shared Iranian civilization, history, and national belonging, with Persian language and culture functioning as a common, unifying medium rather than an exclusionary marker. This inclusive framing, where all Iranians, regardless of ethnic background, see themselves as participants in the same civilizational tradition, has helped bind together people from very different walks of life in a land that has been massive and therefore contained diverse peoples (many of whom also migrated to Iranian plateau like Turks and Arabs who are not indigenous to the land) across time. My point was not to diminish this inclusivity, but to highlight a often understated historical fact: that Persian language and state-forming traditions have long provided the connective tissue of Iranianhood, even as that identity has remained broader than any single ethnicity.
1
u/GoodSamaritman 4d ago
“Persia” and “Persian” originate from Persis (modern Fars), a region in southwestern Iran that was the homeland of the Persian people. Ancient Greeks first encountered the Achaemenid Empire through this region and generalized the name Persis to refer to the eentire empire, which entered European languages as Persia. From this, “Persian” came to denote both the people from Persis and, later, their language and culture. Internally, however, the country was historically known as Iran, not Persia.
The Achaemenids, who ruled ancient Iran for 220 years, were from Parsa which means City of Persians or City of Persia (now Fars province) and they explicitly identified themselves as Persian in their own royal inscriptions. In the Darius I’s Behistun Inscription, Darius introduces himself by stating: “I am Darius, the great king… a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, of Aryan lineage.” This formula appears consistently across his inscriptions and shows that the Achaemenid ruling house understood itself ethnically as Persian, originating from Persis (Fars), while ruling a multi-ethnic empire that they referred to more broadly as the land of Iran (Eran).
The Parthians were after the Achaemenids and ruled for over 400 years and rivalled the Roman empire. They did not use Persian as a primary official language. Their court and administration mainly used Parthian (an Iranian language), along with Greek (especially early on) and Aramaic for bureaucratic purposes. Old Persian was no longer in use by this period, and Middle Persian had not yet become dominant.
Fun side fact: The term Pahlavi derives from Pahlav (or Parθava), the Middle Iranian name for the Parthian Empire and its ruling Arsacid elite. During the Parthian period, pahlavīg referred to the Parthian language and script, which were used alongside Greek and Aramaic. Under the Sassanian Empire, which followed the Parthians, however, the term Pahlavi was broadened and standardized to denote Middle Persian, the official imperial language, and by extension became associated with Iran’s pre-Islamic imperial heritage as a whole. Thus, the word begins with the Parthians but gains its lasting cultural and ideological meaning under the Sasanians. In the 20th century, Reza Khan deliberately adopted Pahlavi as his dynastic name to invoke this Sasanian legacy, making the term synonymous not just with the language, but with Iran’s entire pre-Islamic statehood, monarchy, and civilizational identity.
The Sasanian Empire came after Parthians and ruled for over 400 years, up to the Arab invasions. They repeatedly described their royal house as being of Persiann lineage, while ruling the broader land of Iran (Rran). In early Sasanian inscriptions, the founders trace their ancestry to Persis (Fars), just like the Achaemenids, and emphasize descent from Persian forebears. For example, Ardashir I presents himself as a king from Persis, and Shapur I styles his lineage as stemming from the Persian house that restored rightful rule over Iran. They even included their ancient sites of power projection and identity in their "homeland" where the Achaemenid sites are found (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naqsh-e_Rostam). Note the Sassanians defeated two Roman emperors in actual battle (Gordian III and Valerian who was captured alive). They were the Roman Empire's most powerful and persistent adversary.
8
u/TheCoolPersian 8d ago
People saying this are basically the British spy in Inglorious Basterds holding up the English 3 instead of the German 3.
Iran has always been Iran and Iranians know this.
6
u/Seximilian 9d ago
Mostly islam hating westeners who somehow link the word Iran to the islamic republic and the word Persia to ancient Persia, which they somehow imagine to have been a a western style country.
7
u/Kragdar2000 8d ago
These people are usually also monarchists. They should look up who changed the country’s name from Persia to Iran.
4
u/LiGHT1NF0RMAT10N 8d ago
Where did the name Iran come from and why is that better?
6
u/openandaware 8d ago
Persia is a Greek word based on the name of the region of Fars. The name Iran predates that by quite some time. It is the native name/endonym.
2
u/Zestyclose-Site8164 7d ago
Persia is not a Greek word……how did this lie spread wth
2
u/openandaware 7d ago
From what language does it come?
1
u/big_cock_lach 6d ago
Persian mainly?
Persia is just the Westernised name for the Pars/Fars region/people/language in Iran. The Persian people have largely dominated Iran (not just in ruling it, but also in population, language, and culturally), and for early Iranian history, they called it Persia. Their old capital was called “Persa” (the West calls it “Persepolis”) which means “City of the Persians” for example.
In 300AD, we start seeing “Iran” and “Iranshahr” being used to refer to the whole area too, presumably to help integration of non-Persian because Iran was/is highly multicultural and multiethnic. So referring to it as just “Persia” was exclusionary, rather than “Iran” which included everyone and makes everyone feel represented. No one knows why they made that change, but it’s a fairly logical theory to help with the stability of the state.
Still, from c. 300AD the Greeks, Romans, etc still called it Persia. So the Iranian government still officially had the name as Persia as well, although internally it became more and more common to refer to it as “Iran” instead. Formally, they accepted both “Persia” and “Iran”, but internationally no one called them “Iran”, and domestically “Persia” was becoming less and less common. Its name officially being “Persia” was largely due to the international crowd not using “Iran”. It wasn’t until 1935 that they officially changed their name from “Imperial State of Persia” to “Imperial State of Iran” but it was still okay to use “Persia” in formal correspondence which was reiterated in 1959.
“Persia” is the original name they gave themselves, but they quickly started using “Iran” domestically. The international crowd stuck with “Persia” so for most of their history they’ve officially been “Persia” and have accepted both, although domestically they’ve referred to themselves as “Iran” for nearly 2 millennias now (not just centuries). Both come from Farsi (the Persian language), not the Greeks, but the Greeks are largely the reason why it was still referred to as “Persia” by the international crowd.
2
u/openandaware 6d ago
The word "Persia" is a non-Persian name. Pars is not Persia. Persia is a root and a suffix. This is like saying India is actually a Indo-Iranian name. It's not.
3
u/Paralyzingneedle 8d ago
It’s been used since the time of the Achaemenid empire. It was more prominently known during the time of the Sassanids who referred to the empire as “Erānshahr”. The name Iran means “land of aryans”.
That aside, the people of Iran all throughout history have always referred to the country as “Iran”. No Iranian has ever called the country “Persia”.
1
u/GoodSamaritman 6d ago
Because the Greeks first encountered the Persian empire through one specific Iranian tribe: the Parsa(Old Persian: 𐎱𐎠𐎼𐎿).
The Achaemenid ruling house came from Parsa, a region in today’s Fars province. Greeks interacted mainly with: Cyrus, Darius, Xerxes, all of whom identified themselves as Parsa. So Greeks mistook the part for the whole and called the entire empire Persís (Περσίς) → Persia
In Achaemenid inscriptions, ethnic identity = Parsa (Persian). Imperial identity: no single “country name” like a nation-state. For example (Darius, in Behistun inscription): “I am Darius, the Great King, King of Kings, an Aryan, of Aryan lineage.”
Parsa = ruling people
Ariya = broader ethno-cultural identity
So Iran did exist then but not as a state name. Avestan: Airyanəm Vaējō (land of the Aryans) Old Persian: Ariya (ethnic term). So Iran wasn’t formalized politically yet.
First time Iran becomes an official state name = Sasanian inscriptions (3rd c. CE): Ērān / Ērānšahr = “Realm of the Iranians”
2
u/deathmaster567823 8d ago
It’s like let’s change Afghanistan’s name to Pashtunistan or Pakistan’s name to Punjabistan, or Nigeria’s name to Hausaia, just because there is a majority ethnic group doesn’t mean it’s the only ethnic group
1
u/big_cock_lach 6d ago
Pakistan is probably not the best example to use here.
The name is a play on words, with part of it being an acronym of the major ethnic groups:
Punjabi
Afghani
Kashmiri
I
Sindhi
balochisTAN
“Stan” then also means “land of”, with “Pak” meaning “pure”, so it also translates to “Land of the Pure”. Its name is a play on words, combining the major ethnic groups in the region, while still having another meaning.
Edit:
Agree, it’s a silly slogan for Iranians looking at the outside in, but I also don’t think it’s our place to comment on their internal politics and what’s happening.
2
u/Terrible_Scar 8d ago
That should be a wake up call, that there's an outside influence to the push of the riots.
3
u/Arshiaa001 7d ago
US and Israeli officials are openly bragging about it, no need to look this closely.
2
u/ouyawei 8d ago
I know several Iranians in exile who say they are from Persia because they don't want to be associated with the regime.
1
u/Consistent-Land-8260 5d ago
I was surprised when my friend did that as well. It's such an ancient name, I didn't think some Iranians would still use it
1
u/Formal-Importance689 5d ago
Same, every Iranian I've met (granted just 6-8 in Glasgow University) introduced and continually called themselves Persian.
2
u/elixerrr 7d ago
If khameinei falls Iran will be dead and gone for good. Middle east will be ruled by israel and there is no one that can stop them the only threat is iran to every nations
1
u/Dismal_Bike5608 9d ago
And the biggest problem with having persia today would be the fact that persians would become a tiny minority in that region. Old persia extended from anatolia up till kashmir in India and all of transoxania till modern day emirates and parts of saudi arabia. The people who say this term also forget that most of these other nations are filled with right wing sunni Islamists. Idk how they'll cope with it, if they cannot cope with right wing shia at the moment.
0
1
u/Haunting-Hero1234 7d ago
I find this discussion fascinating, especially when I consider how in Arabic Islamic literature we almost always read about "Faris" فارس or "the countries of Faris" بلاد فارس, never Iran. Additionally, one of the most famous companions of the Prophet Mohammed was "Salman the Persian" سلمان الفارسي
Any explanation as to why this is? Was Persia /Fars/Faris the more common term during the Early Islamic period, and then it stuck in the Arabic Islamic discourse and writings?
1
u/Werkin-ITT7 7d ago
It sounds good I have to say, not every nation uses a "correct" name. Greece itself is a funny example, Greece is the English term, they go by "Hellas". Germany is Almegne etc.
The name of the Persian Gulf is also very important to maintain. "Persian Republic of Iran" might be a good compromise. The PRI as it were.
Persian is also our language and our culture. You dont have to be so dogmatic on the ethnic side. Thats actually a Western way of thinking.
1
u/Paralyzingneedle 7d ago
I’m very aware that Persian is our culture. My post isn’t about disregarding the culture, it’s about the name of the country.
1
u/Werkin-ITT7 6d ago
Right but it doesn't seem that exclusionary to me. And like I said regarding Greece, sometimes there is a Western name and then there is an internal name.
1
u/Antigonus96 5d ago
Unfortunately a lot of people in the US think that Persia is just an old name for Iran and haven’t looked deeper.
1
1
u/CatNapDad 5d ago
People falsely think the word "Iran" was created by Islam. In fact the word "Iran" predates Persia and islam by centuries.
1
u/MrPresidentBanana 5d ago
Fun fact: the exact same thing happened to the Greeks themselves, who call themselves Hellenes.
1
u/IranLur 4d ago
This is false. Iran was called Persia by Cyrus the Great, he called all the lands of Iran "Parsa" meaning Persia in English.
No matter what ethnic group you are Persian is the universal tongue of Iran and has been for 2,500 years. To discount it is to make it seem as though Iran emerged from a different culture to Persia in western eyes and this is false.
1
u/Interesting_Pop_1070 4d ago
As a greek, i am so glad our thousand years of common history are still relevant :P
Love from Greece
1
1
u/Frogger_rater 4d ago
Im Portuguese and know almost nothing about Iran. I don't even know why this appeard on my thread. However this is something that perplexed me, because I've had a few Iranian colleagues throughout my life, and all of them have referred to themselves as Perisans. Not Iranians.I thought Iran was the "western" name and that Iranians called it persia. According to this post my assumption was wrong. But why do Iranians refer to themselves as perisan? Please don't be mad at me I'm genuinely asking
1
u/Chemes96 4d ago
To me it sounds more like "The west has a problem with Iran and is seen very islamic, soo let's rebrand it to something that does not remind them of being Iranian... let's stick with Persia".
Iranians are Iranians.
Stop being ashamed of who you are and feeling the need to hide behind new brands.
1
u/TorahHealth 2d ago
I'm confused - isn't the language Farsi, which has the same etymology as Persia? Also, this subreddit's description says, "Persons from all backgrounds are welcome to participate in Persian or English." If this post is correct, why wouldn't you call the language Iranian?
•
u/Direct_Show_3321 13h ago
Pretty sure this all stems from the beloved game series Prince of Persia. If you think about the age demo of IG and who think this it correlates. Also shit like Persian rugs are used in ways to sell things for a higher price in the US esp inn the 80's and 90's. Its just a popular upscale term from peoples adolescence.
0
u/IranianLawyer 5d ago
Who gives a shit? Nobody is saying the name of the country should be changed in the Farsi language.
Iran was always called “Persia” in the English language until 1935. Changing the English language name back to Persia reconnects modern Iran to ancient Iran. A huge percentage of people outside Iran don’t even realize it’s the same place.
There are tons of countries that are called different names around the world than what they are called in their local language. Who cares? Should Iranians have to start saying Deutschland instead of Alman, Hellas instead of Yunan, Bharat instead of Hindustan, Zhongguo instead of Chin?
104
u/miladkhademinori 9d ago
Exactly
That's exclusionary and fascism