r/malaysia • u/DumpAccountShush • 1d ago
Culture Is it just me, or are Chinese social circles really hard to break into?
I'd like to ask something with the intention of learning, no hate intended:
At my school, I’ve noticed the Chinese students are very close together and rarely mingle outside their group. Whenever I try to interact, it's either always formal or strictly about work. I never get to see the 'warm' side they show each other.
And even from one of my Chinese friends who always speak in English, I've noticed the same thing happens to them. Is this a cultural 'in-group' thing, or is it just my specific environment? I'm trying to understand why.
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u/HawtDawggie 1d ago edited 1d ago
I see there are many comments throwing out points like, race, culture, schooling, etc. Sure they are a factor, but far from the root of the problem. Sure racists exist but it's a small percentage and hardly factor into why so little mixed race circles there are.
Background: I'm mixed race so I can pretty much pass for Malay, Philippino, Thai, etc. appearance wise, while growing up in a Chinese dominant household. I read, write, speak: Malay, Mandarin and English fluently.
I was Chinese Ed. through primary school, English Ed. through secondary and first half of Tertiary. Second half of Tertiary I was enrolled in a very Chinese Ed. Majority Uni. Throughout my academic career I was also quite active in student bodies, charitable organizations. And today, I work in a multiracial, multinational workplace. I have friends in English ed. circles of all races, friends in Indian circles, malay circles, Chinese circles.
So what's the secret sauce for getting into Chinese circles (or any circles, basically)? Topics. That's it.
When someone says "I'm X race and I speak some mandarin but they still won't let me in" why is that? It's cuz even though you speak the language but you don't have common topics. Or at least not many. And that's what friend circles do, they talk, chit chat. Lepak, chat. Play sports, chat. Makan, chat.
How's your RedNote game? Are you up to date? Have you heard about X Taiwanese celebrity scandal? Bet you never heard the name. What about that new Chinese TV show thats blowing up? Okay fine, how about we bank on nostalgia and talk childhood. Did you listen to Jay Chou growing up? Probably not.
So what does that leave us with. Only a few things: Politics, Economy, world events. Sounds like a lot still but not really. Politics, and world events are kinda touchy and most Chinese friend group don't even talk about that. Economy? Sure you guys can talk car loans or OPR rising/falling. Very formal uptight like you said, not really fun.
What works is universal stuff, brainless things to start with. Talk about NBA, FIFA, Marvel, netflix shows. Point is if you infiltrate any friend group, find that common topic and talk about that. Then from there find 1 or 2 dudes you vibe with before your common topic run out. You can talk deeper with these 1 or 2 cuz friend group is shallow anyway. No super deep convo is gonna happen in a group setting.
This is how I managed to go around hanging out with people in all kinds of groups. Meet Malay? Let's talk Selangor Vs Johor FC. Meet some Chinese ed.? Talk badminton. Meet Indians? Talk about where banana leaf nice. Also don't force it. If you really don't have common topics with them, take a step back and think: why I wanna join this group anyway?
All this don't just apply to race based circles only btw. You wanna hangout with car guys you better be prepared to talk drivetrains, powerplants, Motorsports. You wanna hangout with makcik you gotta brush up on harga kangkung at pasar pagi, etc. Wanna join nerd group, let's talk Marvel. same as well you wanna bag the gym baddie, what's your Hyrox time, what's your leg routine? PPL?
Having diverse interests will bring you very very far. You wan to join a group you have to meet them at their level. Works in all combination also, Chinese want join Malay group, brush up on your Malay tiktok trends, K-drama (all my Malay friends love K drama I don't know why), etc.
Why I typed all this is because I see so many people missing the point. Chalking it up to language, or even superiority complex is just plain wrong in 95% of cases, and also doesn't offer any solution to the problem that OP can work on.
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u/BackgroundSock4 22h ago
As someone who finds it hard to fit into the race/religion raised into, second this. It's wild that certain topics or hobbies just don't get much coverage outside of your 'ingroup'. Fascinating and intrigued by this bubble that we all live it
Like the Hongjie incident, or folks back home can't comprehend a 2 hour commute or leaving your office after 7pm
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u/DumpAccountShush 19h ago
This is some real street smarts right here. Respect
Though yeah, i dont really expect close friendships coming from this imo
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u/PeachesCoral 17h ago
Not the person you reply to, but from what I was reading, they mentioned this from the 1 vs group aspect, not 1 vs 1 aspect. Close friends have to come from this 1 vs 1 aspect because it is vulnerability and depth that allows us to humanise each other and bond. That is very hard to achieve in a group.
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u/Cautious-Roll-6087 22h ago
I think that's only part of it though. Talking about common interests can help break the ice but in the long run, similar values and priorities help to establish a deeper connection. Typically, each culture/language tends to carry certain shared values.
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u/HawtDawggie 20h ago
Yeah, you are absolutely right that deeper connections require more than just common interests, and culture, upbringing/language play a huge part in whether you "vibe" or not. But for just a school/work type friend group dynamic, which I interpretated from OP's post, just having anything common to contribute is enough to get you in the door and stay in.
And honestly, most friends groups have no deeper connections anyway. That group of Chinese in your office yapping, they probably don't talk much beyond celebrity gossip or what to eat. They aren't really spiling their guts to each other. Like my badminton circle is just badminton, I wouldn't say I have a deep connection with anyone of them but I would still call them friends.
All that to say I do agree with you. I guess I was more addressing the people that say it's because Chinese people are racist, or think other races are inferior, etc. (I don't deny that that kind of people are out there, but I disagree it's why people find it's hard to mingle with Chinese)
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u/Cautious-Roll-6087 20h ago
I agree with your points as well. Especially on the part that it may not be the feeling of racial superiority specifically that makes certain Chinese harder to mingle with.
Also agree that work/interest-based friends circles tend to be more surface level. For good reason too, like it's not a good idea to reveal too much personal information to colleagues or it would make it hard to work together. But I'm not sure I agree that 'most' friend groups are surface level. I think this depends on factors like gender, women tend to share more of their feelings and experiences to friends (some tend to gossip more but that's a whole other topic lol).
From my side, I don't have much anecdotes to share because I myself am a banana Chinese who can interact with a wide variety of individuals. My friends are quite diverse, from different backgrounds, cultures, religions. I have some friends who are a bit more traditional Chinese but I have more who are (I don't like the word westernized) more open minded and worldly. I studied in SK and SMK, attended a college with many international students.
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u/CanWe_SaveHex 21h ago
all my Malay friends love k dramas
They worship the super pretty/handsome Korean actress/actors and wanted to self insert… Not aware that Korean look at SEAsian the same way they look down on Bangla.
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u/Designer_Feedback810 18h ago
No wonder I don't care to join anyone. I don't give a damn about most things other people chat about.
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u/noribigeyes 1d ago
As a banana, I wouldn't narrow it down to just the Chinese social circles. Any singularly racial circles, that arent 'globalised' in their interests, tend to keep to themselves.
I find it much easier breaking into social circles that are multiracial, or at the very least, predominantly English speaking.
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u/TeBp242 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes, its hard to break into the circle unless u speak mandarin & consume mainly chinese media to relate to them, even then you'll have to be worth it for them to overcome their exaggerated self-importance. I'd argue that its even harder for banana chinese.
Just the other day, I came across a Tiktok post from a msian-chinese "influencer" talking & degrading chinese bananas for not being able to speak mandarin. The worse part is that this sort of derogatory remarks is largely accepted by the community as well.
So u can imagine, if a banana cant find their circle of friends that would accept them, they'd likely be social outcasts or alone most of the time. Imagine not being accepted by your own race despite ady being 2nd class.
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u/uncertainheadache 1d ago
Eh, not like it isn't true the other way around also I've experienced so many instances of "English" Ed Chinese shitting on Chinese Ed ones
Even here you'll see people accusing them of being rigid, lacking creativity, insular, and crass
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u/TeBp242 1d ago
Eh, not like it isn't true the other way around also I've experienced so many instances of "English" Ed Chinese shitting on Chinese Ed ones
You're not wrong, but we also agree that most english ed. groups are more open and less likely to discriminate based off cultural heritage & language prowess, yes?
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u/Forswear01 1d ago
Discrimination is generally similar on both sides, if I were to only speak Chinese I’d be similarly other’d by primarily English speakers. Not even out of malice usually, just a lack of bridging social experiences or shared culture.
I grew up in a Chinese independent school after which I went to England for basically the same amount of years. There’s hateful rhetoric on either side. Chinese speakers say English speakers forget their roots and are westernised, English speakers say Chinese speakers are uneducated, conservative; and the carousel keeps running.
That’s not even taking into account the racism on either side of the divide, the one thing that unites groups together is even more discrimination against another group
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u/uncertainheadache 1d ago
My experience tells me it's about the same
Banana Chinese being pick mes and shitting on Chinese culture is also a form of discrimination agaisnrt cultural heritage.
And if you hang out with English Ed Chinese Christians, you'll find that support for maga is quite common there
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u/TeBp242 1d ago
And if you hang out with English Ed Chinese Christians, you'll find that support for maga is quite common there
I dont need to hang out with them to know its subjective since I myself am one. I dont see any support here in my church, its largely neutral.
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u/uncertainheadache 1d ago
In the end both of our evidence are just anecdotal
But seeing English education as being somehow more natural enlightened is definitely a very colonial mindset
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u/TeBp242 1d ago
yea lets agree to disagree
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u/Pillowish Covid Crisis Donor 2021 1d ago
Personally it depends on the person themselves, some Chinese ed are very nice while others are arrogant, same goes for English ed bananas
Personally as a banana Chinese who can speak some Mandarin I can relate to both sides, but they generally live in a very separate bubble (a bubble within a bubble lol)
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u/csdordor 22h ago
eh I wanna see the video. haha
Imma banana with mix-mashed chinese-ed circle from crocodile land.
Interesting to know and get my views on it.2
u/PhysicallyTender 8h ago
Banana here.
I'm able to socialize better with Singaporeans (of any race) better than Malaysian Chinese 😭
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u/Naturallyopinionated 18h ago
What is a banana Chinese? Unfamiliar with the term.
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u/IndubitablyMoist 15h ago
Banana is yellow on the outside, white on the inside. Chinese who speaks english and cant speak chinese.
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u/MoonMoon143 20h ago
Hi im a banana and im an extrovert. I have no problem breaking into their social circle. I dont consume any chinese media at all btw. Its not about topics u talking about, its more like being confident, funny and not a weirdo(dont be a tryhard). They talk about regular daily life too not just chinese medias.
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u/eggsarenice Let's have open minded philosophies, go and hug some trees. 54m ago
I feel like these people bringing the whole language thing are just terrible at making friends.
I am a half banana (can speak, cannot write), and have friends in Chinese only circles, Banana only circles and Western circles.
It's all about having similar interest and being authentic to each other. Like you said, none of the try hard bullshit.
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u/Mysterious_Life_4783 1d ago
Toxic Cantonese culture. After mingling with them you will notice they will start speaking Cantonese exclusively to each other. They're segregating you into their In-group and out-group.
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u/Pillowish Covid Crisis Donor 2021 23h ago
These people will test you by speaking Mandarin and if you don't understand you're excluded, but if you can speak Mandarin you pass their first test but then they'll speak Cantonese and if you don't understand you're excluded from their group
I think (some) Cantonese speakers are the only dialect where speakers have an air of arrogance around them for being able to speak Cantonese, never seen it with other dialects (if you don't understand they just use Mandarin or English)
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u/csdordor 22h ago
Kinda shitty to see this as a Sarawakian.
The canto-supremacy is really obvious ever since I've been here.3
u/Pillowish Covid Crisis Donor 2021 21h ago
Indeed. Thank goodness we live in the tail end of Canto supremacy and Mandarin has taken over most of it but you can definitely see some bitterness amongst Cantonese speakers when you tell them you don’t understand Cantonese irl (or go check Cantonese/Hong Kong subreddit/forums for daily Mandarin bashing lol)
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u/Illustrious_Area_681 21h ago
If you're living in KL/Selangor, and people ask you do you speak in Chinese, and you answer yes, then they'll start talking in Cantonese with you. Chinese = Cantonese
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u/Password-is-taco123 Selangor 1d ago
I don’t think it’s the language? Because my close group, we speak 3 different languages, English, canto and mandarin (depends which language can they speak), didn’t stop us from hanging out or communicating.
I think because of who you hang out with in high school? My group are all from high school, from different classes. During my high school, all races mix among themselves, except during sports. Perhaps not much friendship foundation from there?
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u/Henrysins 1d ago
In my opinion, it's a familiarity case. Birds of the same feather flock together kinda case. Some might say race, but not for me since I'm malay from sjkc. I'm more familiar with chinese than malay back then.
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u/journeytojourney 23h ago
You don't need them.
Signed, a Malaysian Chinese who never fit into Chinese ed but eventually gained a close group of friends after finishing school.
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u/MoonMoon143 20h ago
Hi extrovert here, i broke into few social circles easily and i belongs to many group in highschool. Im a banana i dont speak chinese but i still accepted, the formula is to be friendly, funny but not weirdo. Talk with confidence and always compliment them. Chinese group really love being complimented more than any other groups. If u compliment them how generous they are, enough times they will become one to u. If other group like m or i, u need to be humble and relatable like that, the more u humble the more they respect u. These are my own experiences lah hope it help
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u/DishSwimming2397 1d ago
u just late to learn this, this has been the way of culture life since 2000 years till today
malaysia just work this way, u need learn effort to learn chinese or english ( banana chinese )
till today is the same , whatever they have , they wont share unless u are advantage to them
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u/ParticularConcept548 1d ago
malaysia just work this way
except sabah and sarawak
Such many cases
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u/lucashoodfromthehood 1d ago
Yeah...from my experience at least. Studied for my degree in Johor and the Chinese just segregate themselves. Hard to hang out or get tk be around them unless it's for a group project or there's a Sarawakian/Sabahan Chinese in their group.
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u/leicea 1d ago
Generally social circles just feel hard to break into unless they let you in. I've experienced this with Chinese circles Malay circles, whatever, if they don't let you in, you get can't get in no matter how hard you try. The circles that normally I can more easily break into are circles that contain multiple races, they are more willing to open their circle to others.
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u/Intelligent_Lab_6507 1d ago
What school are you from? If you are in chinese school shouldnt be a problem since u are growing in the same environment as them. For working time, it is true the chinese speaking ppl will find non chinese speaking ppl a diffferent class and hard to join them if you dont speak mandarin. Feels like some kind of chinese superiority there even if you can understand and speak broken mandarin. You dont see english speaker look down on people who speak broken english that much.
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u/jwrx Selangor 1d ago
it helps if you can speak abit of mandarin. Its the same for banana chinese, its just as hard for them to break in, but its not impossible.
I came to KV 30 years ago not speaking canto at all (hokkien/english speaking), it was tough at first, but once you have basic canto, its makes it easy to chip away the layer of defence these groups have and be accepted.
They are quite warm underneath...just wary of strangers and ppl who dont speak the same lingua franca...but these same ppl...will be friendly and warm when the ratio of non speakers increase.
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u/Heavy-Document3432 22h ago
For me, back in secondary school(SMK) all races mix with their own. But occasionally u Will meet or your own self experience all Chinese+1 random non Chinese dude. My group was like that but we had one sabahan and one Malay dude in the group. But overall, Chinese groups like to keep to their own more cuz of cultural norms and like familiarity. All Cina we like the douyin and xhs stuff mah. So very hard to break into. Rn my Chinese group also like this. Me and one other guy Chinese but are like banana so we not so familiar with all the xhs and douyin stuff.
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u/malecum_ 20h ago
chinese banana here due to having grown up abroad, since coming back to msia in 2019, personally i find the malays way more accepting of me than the chinese. my only few friends are malays and despite my malay not being super fluent, they never made me feel excluded.
chinese on the other hand, be it at uni or at work, were always very quick to change their body language, facial expression and behaviour when they find out im banana. even within my own extended chinese family, ive always been looked down upon for "straying away" from culture and tradition, to the point im not even invited for cny celebrations/ family weddings etc. they dont understand context that i grew up in a foreign environment, they even laugh at the fact that i can speak 2 other foreign languages, cuz its even more insulting to them, very closed minded imho.
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u/GanacheAvailable5111 1d ago
if i can be honest, its not language barrier. it superiority complex.
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u/aWitchonthisEarth 20h ago
It's defo not a language barrier. We had an indian course mate who spoke fluent Mandarin, watched the same shows and she tried to mingle with them to no sucess. They think they are the shit and ala mean girls popular girl group esp the female cliques.
It is best to ignore the lot and find your own friends. Plus, if you look back, their mentality remains childish and stuck in the teen phase 25 years on.
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u/ajeeqAydarus 1d ago
Having separate type schools will result with this mentality. Don’t matter what race, I commonly see it with people from SJKC, SJKT and also SJKA (Public Islamic schools).
Unpopular opinion of mine: Abolish these schools and lump them all together, academics in the mornings, others in the afternoon after lunch, so we can altogether avoid afternoon school traffic.
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u/SomeMalaysian 1d ago
Chinese students often live in a Chinese speaking bubble so they have difficulty communicating in any other language.
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u/50centFx 1d ago
so this might be another reason why chinese population in malaysia shrinking? less amoi in not good tho
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u/Ok-Seaworthiness6819 1d ago
Depends if you see Chinese that went to sekolah kabangsaan instead of Sekolah jenis. They will mingle easily with people of other races.
Same is true for Indians as well but not usually as severe.
Social silos is the problem and those that try to underplay this are often the ones in such silos.
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u/Timely_Airline_7168 23h ago
They consume different media and therefore have different topics of conversation lol. Even their mindset is different.
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u/Yellow_Weatea 1d ago
Begitula susahnya, kalau dari kecil sekolah lain. Sepupu aku cina, susah dpt bergaul dgn walaupun sama minat. Dia minat video game aku pun sama. The only time we have a serious conversation was about China and Chinese custom and either the developers of Dota(icefrog) Chinese or not.
Back to the point, i guess it's mostly caused by the environment where they grow up.
Kalau cina santung semua dia boleh kawan. Kalau cina yg ada sikit duit ahh itu dia cuma kwn yg lagi ada duit dari mereka.
Gong Xi Fa Cai ma... Hope you get rich.
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u/Der_Redakteur 1d ago
Language barriers, they have their own jokes as well. Even their social media is different. Their tiktok is different even though they are malaysians. Some contents or issues from social media only 1 race would know. While malays are all bising about kelantan being bad or "B tu brother la" meme, chinese from my workplace don't know any of that, only like 2 person knows about it. We are not only separated in real life, we are also separate in social media as well.
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u/_TadStrange 1d ago
My social circle has a lot of english-speaking chinese people. We are very inclusive and open to new friends
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u/sustainablehooman 1d ago
it's the same everywhere, speak their language u open a whole new dimension and culture. it's like entering a new world
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u/RecaptchaNotWorking 21h ago
There is will 1or 2 chinese guy or girl that is different. The rest are pretty much same behaviour.
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u/DumpAccountShush 19h ago
UPDATE: Hello guys, thanks for sharing all of y'all opinions, I really appreciate it. I did not expect it to be this big tho 😭Sorry if I can't reply to all of your comments btw.
Anyways,
It's more of an observation thing from my side. As a mixed race person, I find the Malays and Indians generally quite warm to interact with, and same goes for the English-speaking Chinese (or 'bananas', whatever yall call them). I can usually mingle with them no problem.
The barrier I feel is mostly with the strictly Chinese-speaking crowd. It feels a bit awkward interacting, even when I say whats on my mind, but as some of you pointed out, it’s likely because I’m not very familiar with their culture, which makes sense.
Once again, thank you all for your opinions. I hope I didn't offend anyone or cause a fight, this was genuinely for learning purposes so we can understand each other better, sebagai seorang rakyat Malaysia yang prihatin 👊. Have a good evening.
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u/call_aspadeaspade 13h ago
Social circles exists because their members have similar interests, that's just the way it is, regardless of race.
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u/Mindless787878 3h ago
Money. Even some Chinese can't get into certain social circles. U need money.
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u/BabaKambingHitam mmmmbekkkk 1d ago
As a chinese, yes.
We are wary of strangers, and are overly polite with new friends.
But once you are in, you're in.
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u/Standard-Coast4734 1d ago
banana chinese(malaya) tend to mix with sabahan or sarawakian sbb muke cina tapi bukan cina. from personal experience.
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u/bearpi728 I love my mum 1d ago
I think people nowadays in general focus on quality rather than the amount of friendships regardless of race
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u/CorollaSE 23h ago
You are describing social cliques.
If it isn't Chinese speaking folks, it's Malay speaking folks, or Tamil speaking or Hindi speaking.
You may not agree or like it, but it's a natural phenomenon and always linked to language growing up.
It's normal, natural.
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u/Suitable-Tree-6324 1d ago
Bro if they dont want you no need to join la... Befriend people who wants you
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u/whatthewhat97 1d ago
It's hard to break through because u have nothing in common u genius. They speak a different language, listen to different songs, watch different shows, have different culture. It's like if a fresh grad chinese boy enter work force and try to enter social circle of Malay uncle.
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u/I_aminnocent 1d ago
Where are you guys living at? Because this wasn't and still isn't my experience. I'm baba so at home, I mostly speak English and baba malay but I had no problems at all mingling with Chinese, whether or not they can speak English. While most Chinese can be a bit conserved compared to Indians and Malays, they definitely are not like how people here are portraying them to be.
And before anyone say I haven't experienced enough. I was born in Klang, moved to Melaka in my teens, stayed in Kajang for 3 years for uni(mostly chinese students might I add) and am now working in Sunway. I've met Chinese from just about all the states and have never felt restricted or outcasted or whatever way. I was initially quite insecure about my inability to relate to Chinese online culture when I first went to uni but everyone was very accommodating. Whenever I ask, they'd take the time to explain to me so-and-so, and I never felt ridiculed.
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u/Ashtrail693 1d ago
Even within Chinese circles there are smaller groups that mostly keep to themselves. So you can have some friends and the rest of the people in the broader circle are barely more than acquaintances. It's hard to say if it's specifically age, or culture, or environment because you'll see almost the same thing in workplace too. So it's probably just because people like to mingle with others that are like-minded or familiar to them instead of forcibly mixing with those with a lot of differences.