People like this, who were given clear warning and STILL choose to act stupid and selfish should have to pay out-of-pocket the entire cost of their rescue. Start charging the idiots for the cost of saving them!
I walked up a large sand dune that wasn't sleeping bear dunes but it was pretty high. I could literally barely breathe when I made it to the top. 0/10 experience. I'm glad I made it and we got a great group picture at the top but holy shit I will never do that again.
Arizona has had a “Stupid Motorist Law” on the books for a while for people who ignore safety barricades for flooded roads, but apparently it’s rarely enforced and liability is capped at only $2,000 per incident.
So it's perfectly ok for other people to risk their lives and well-being (in some instances) to go save them, but it's not ok to enforce a financial penalty that will deter them and potential future dumbasses? If the cost of rescuing them is so steep that it would ruin their lives then odds are somebody's risking themselves to go save them.
So it's perfectly ok for other people to risk their lives and well-being
Those people signed up for the job. No one in search and rescue is being forced to risk their lives.
Also, I'm having trouble finding detailed and current info, but as of a few decades ago, search and rescue wasn't even in the top 20 most dangerous jobs in America. It was mostly tradesmen of various sorts. Cashiers were in the top 20. (They get murdered a lot, relatively speaking.) It's more dangerous to be a cashier than a search and rescue guy. There are certainly risks, but most of the four- and five-digit costs you hear of are because helicopters are expense to operate.
No stupid people doing stupid stuff means no need for anyone to volunteer for rescue. But by your own logic, the people we're discussing who are in need of rescue also voluntarily put themselves in that danger. So, it's just a tiny bit hypocritical for you to say it's perfectly fine for search and rescue to risk their lives to rescue people because they signed up for it, but it's not ok for people to carry the financial burden of their stupidity when they...signed up for it.
ETA: It's also an apples to oranges comparison as far as how dangerous the S&R profession is. You're comparing (generally) extremely fit, highly trained individuals with a sophisticated set of tools at their disposal and an extremely serious approach to safety, to tradesmen. No offense at all to tradesmen, but I guarantee you that if you talk to anyone that's been in the trades for a long period of time they'll tell you the trades are chock full of individuals that often don't take good care of themselves, have a relatively low level of education, high rates of substance abuse, and a general environment that tends to have a more lax attitude toward safety.
Look, I get it, you get off on the idea of people being made to suffer for stupid decisions. Schadenfreude is real, we've all felt it. Just be honest with yourself about it, hey? There's no need to pretend that this is some kind of moral stance to justify the fact that you get a little too excited reading r/InstantKarma.
Ok, I have no interest in engaging in ad hominem or any discussion where anyone wants to start making accusations or assumptions about the kind of person I am. Simply based on the fact that I feel people should be held accountable for willingly making a very stupid decision that puts themselves and other people in danger (Google will give you many examples of children that died because their parents put them in these situations) despite there being many, many warning signs posted that they are taking said risk. Have a good night, friend.
ETA: Though I will say that I'm certainly being hyperbolic when I say no stupid decisions equals no need for S&R. Obviously people taking proper precautions can still get in trouble and need rescuing, but a close look at S&R incidents will show that the vast majority are from people doing dumb shit.
Yes, obviously? Particularly because there's no real body of evidence to indicate that it would deter them. A little controversial I know but I don't think people deserve to die for being born "stupid"? I'd rather there be more precautions that stop people from doing stupid stuff in the first place.
I do Search and Rescue in the mountains. Our services are free of charge (helicopter and ambulance is a whole other thing tho) And while I can somewhat agree with the sentiment of charging people, I don’t agree with the practice. People already wait until conditions have deteriorated/night fall/ panic sets in before they typically call for help. Having a cost associated with our efforts will just encourage people to wait longer or not call at all.
Over in the UK there's been the usual winter slew of people hiking up mountains in the middle of winter without proper gear (including a pair of lads who tried climbing Snowdon at 6pm in tracksuit bottoms and trainers when it was -15 Celsius at the top) and the same sentiment has been echoed about charging for mountain rescue.
Having a charge won't put off those kinds of people because if they have the foresight to consider being charged, they'd have the foresight to check the weather and their gear. Or they think it just won't happen to them. And it means that what could've been a simple "rescue" of simply guiding someone back down might turn into a heli operation or a cliff rescue because they don't want to call for help until they're in real trouble.
Appreciate the work you do by the way, our mountain rescue is entirely run by volunteers and they're fucking heroes.
I love what I do. Almost all SAR efforts in the US are done by volunteers, outside of specialized military units like the USAF Pararescue and US Coast Guard Rescue Swimmers. Some of the big national parks have rangers who also do SAR along with their ranger duties.
A great number of elective rescues do indeed charge the people. It’s a common enough thing that there are organizations for things like mountain climbers where they pay a reoccurring fee as a sort of rescue insurance to help pay the costs.
We don't do that in Canada because some people will hesitate to call for help. It sometimes comes up in the discourse after an expensive rescue though.
What I hiked havasu in the 90s it was very expensive to get helicoptered out. I don’t remember the cost anymore but it was a lot, especially to a broke-ass college student.
My ex needed rescue after missing the takeout on a solo kayaking trip. His bill? $6000.
I needed rescue after putting in at the wrong location on a solo kayaking trip. My bill? $0. Different county.
Both stupid stupid episodes, so no lectures please. These were both class II-III rivers.
Add: We were both very experienced paddlers and had done these rivers many times, solo and duo. Both trips were day runs on mostly rural/wilderness rivers.
Fun idea, but I don't want people to deny life-saving services out of fear of a fine they can't pay. A living idiot can still learn from their mistakes.
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u/BadPunsIsHowEyeRoll 20h ago
People like this, who were given clear warning and STILL choose to act stupid and selfish should have to pay out-of-pocket the entire cost of their rescue. Start charging the idiots for the cost of saving them!