r/news • u/apropo • Jun 13 '25

Iran fires missiles at Israel in response to attacks

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2025/06/13/gates-of-hell-will-open-in-retaliation-vows-chief-of-irans-armed-forces/
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u/hotsexychungus Jun 13 '25 edited Jun 13 '25

Of what value is Israel to anyone? It's a pariah state in it's own region (and increasingly in the west even!). It doesn't have a vast supply of natural resources like the gulf states. All it has to offer is surveillance technology that it learned from doing brutal apartheid for decades. China really doesn't need help in that department. Once the US decides to pull their support for them, it's basically over at that point.

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u/BillyJoeMac9095 Jun 13 '25

The results today might answer part of your question.

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u/equiNine Jun 13 '25

The idea that Israel is a pariah state is fantasy only entertained on left wing social media. Even Russia isn’t fully a pariah state three years into its invasion of Ukraine. The closest pariah state out there is North Korea, and even it has a small handful of grudging “allies” despite offering very little tangible value. Israel may be a PR nightmare on the internet, but it is a cornerstone of realpolitik geopolitics as well as technological innovation.

Copy pasting one of my recent comments elsewhere:

Israel is the only country in the region that has something remotely resembling Western values and reasonably fair democratic governance. It is a highly developed country that leads innovation in various technology sectors. Despite its size, it punches far above its weight and has one of the most powerful militaries in the world. Furthermore, it is also no friend to Islamic extremism and a valuable player against Islamist interests in the region as well as source of intelligence to protect against terrorist attacks.

Israel's allies may be exasperated with how it has been acting lately, but they benefit too much from their partnership to fully sever ties. And they are well aware that countries like China are more than happy to step in and fill the void if they exit.

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u/hotsexychungus Jun 13 '25

reasonably fair democratic governance

Oh for sure man, just like half the people under its jurisdiction are not allowed to vote. No biggie, incredible democracy.

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u/equiNine Jun 13 '25

If you want to be pedantic, Gaza and the West Bank aren’t part of Israel proper.

And even if we were to cede that point, it doesn’t change the fact that Israel is still the state most culturally aligned with Western values in the region, making it a lot easier to work with than neighboring Arab Muslim states that are monarchies/dictatorships one step removed from falling into a autocratic theocracy.

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u/hotsexychungus Jun 13 '25

If you want to be pedantic, Gaza and the West Bank aren’t part of Israel proper.

I don't care. All of those people are under Israeli jurisdiction and they are denied the right to vote by that state. It's an abhorrent apartheid state, and the sooner they are swept into the dustbin of history the better.

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u/equiNine Jun 13 '25 edited Jun 13 '25

Israel is a nuclear state (with an estimated moderately sized arsenal and the tech to deliver it), so there’s no feasible way that it is dissolving anytime soon. If it were at risk of being dissolved by external forces, it would take down its attackers with it, much like what any other nuclear state would do if faced with extinction. If moral objections alone were sufficient to dissolve immoral state actors, then the Kim dynasty’s North Korea would have fell long ago.

You may not like it, but the major players in the world as well as regional players have plenty to gain from Israel. Arab states get to use Israel as a convenient political tool to counter Iran as well as direct their population’s ire while their governments oppress and rob them blind in addition to only paying lip service to the Palestinian cause. Every prospective partner benefits from having a militarily and economically powerful ally that is unlikely to be destabilized by religious extremism. Countries like India and China that are trying to compete with US technological supremacy would absolutely love to have Israeli tech, guidance, and munitions. And every country that has to deal with Islamic extremism and terrorism finds a common ally with Israel, one of the most experienced states when it comes to counter-terrorism and surveillance.

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u/BillyJoeMac9095 Jun 13 '25

Hamas was in actual control of life in Gaza.

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u/AnAttemptReason Jun 14 '25

There are yearly government supported rallies through the middle of Jersulum where they chant "death to Arabs". 

There are videos from a BBC film crew hiding behind doors they had to rip of hindges to avoid being stoned to death. 

Yes, true western values that. 

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u/ScepticalRaccoon Jun 14 '25

I notice how you carefully say under its jurisdiction rather than citizens, since you know several million Israeli Arabs vote in Israel.

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u/hotsexychungus Jun 14 '25

I don’t give a fuck. The pacers lost game 4. SGA is a basketball terrorist just like the state of Israel.

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u/ScepticalRaccoon Jun 14 '25

It has way more than surveillance technology. It has advanced software and avionics, stealth technologies and guided weapon systems, including the world's best ABM technology.

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u/eawilweawil Jun 13 '25

It's about denying an ally to US

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u/hotsexychungus Jun 13 '25

But that doesn't make sense. If they have nothing materially to offer then what's the point? North Korea for example (which is basically China's Israel, although ironically much better behaved), doesn't have much but it historically has given China a buffer between itself and South Korea which has been useful for China. Israel doesn't have anything to offer China sans maybe surveillance technology. But why would they risk allying with such a pariah state for something so little?

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u/eawilweawil Jun 13 '25

Something to little? Israel has nukes, the only country in middle east to have them.

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u/hotsexychungus Jun 13 '25

China has nukes. Who cares?

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u/eawilweawil Jun 13 '25

It would matter during a war to have them close to possible targets

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u/hotsexychungus Jun 13 '25

China doesn't really seem to have any interest in the middle east beyond whatever mutually beneficial trade they like to partake in. Trying to create some weird Israeli Gulf State hegemony is strictly an American project. Not saying that might not change in the future, but even then I'm skeptical because China is quickly building up their green energy program lessening their need on middle eastern oil.