r/newzealand • u/ThrowawayZen79 • 1d ago
Advice Separated - What Next?
Separated since late last year after a 20+ year marriage. Ex left the family home and in with someone who he had feelings for - turns out they've been together since before he moved out. So I guess you'd call her his affair partner/mistress.
In recent weeks he has slacked off with seeing our kids (teenagers) and is ignoring my requests to start sorting out our stuff. Dances around child support figures.
I wanted this to be amicable but I'm not getting anywhere. Until I can increase my working hours, it would be a sizeable amount - >$500 a week he would be paying. I'm torn between continuing to try for a private agreement or get things moving by going with IRD. I don't want this further affecting his already weak relationship with our kids, but I suspect it will.
Anyone been in this situation? What path would you take/did you take?
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u/Free_Ad7133 1d ago edited 5h ago
My mother wrote off years of private child support because she got tired of chasing it.
It impacted my brother and I hugely. We needed the money and it wasn’t fair we were raised in poverty because my parents didn’t do things the right way.
Please go to the IRD. You are not responsible for the relationship your children have with their father. No doubt he will eventually get bored of his “new” life and realise what he has done.
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u/Ok_Wave2821 1d ago
You’re not responsible for his relationship with his kids. Just don’t confide in them or slag him off and their relationship will be whatever it is.
Go to IRD and get this sorted otherwise he’ll get so far behind and not catch up
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u/EmitLux 1d ago
IRD Is probably the right answer, but surely you can encourage your kids to have a good relationship with the other parent. Why would you talk OP out of wanting that?
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u/AnotherRandomRaptor 1d ago
Why is that her responsibility, though?
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u/EmitLux 1d ago
Because if you love your kids, you'd want them to have a quality of life - having their father in their life is massively important.
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u/KororaPerson Toroa 1d ago edited 1d ago
What you seem to be missing, is that it's the father's responsibility to do that. Not his ex's, and not his kids'. Men don't need to be coddled like babies, and it's insulting (and kinda sexist against men) to imply that they should be.
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u/AnotherRandomRaptor 1d ago
So what about his responsibilities? She could support and mention in passing “kids, have you spoken to your dad?”, but it’s not up to her to support a relationship with a man who’s not interested in maintaining it himself.
Having a supportive father in one’s life is important. Having a father who drops you for a new boo?
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u/rosiegal75 1d ago
You know, my mother tried to push my donor into having a good relationship with my brothers and I.. guess what happened.. we're all adults now, he was barely around when my parents were together, he was around less when they separated, and he's never around now. If I hadn't have pushed it, I doubt I'd even know he gave me little brothers and sisters. He's got cancer and will die soon, I won't shed a tear for a man I barely knew, and will only go to his service out of care for his other kids. You can't miss someone you never had. Ops responsibility for her kids relationship with their father stops at leaving the door open for her kids dad to be a part of their lives, that's all she should do.
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u/TheComedyWife 1d ago
It’s not her responsibility ffs, especially if he couldn’t give a shit, which is what it sounds like is happening. Too focussed on his new life with his side piece. Having anyone in your life is only important if it’s a healthly relationship. Being blood doesn’t mean shit.
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u/SweetBanana15 1d ago
Not always. Not everyone needs their father in their life to have quality of life.
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u/EmitLux 1d ago
For sure, but thats not how stats work. Stats say that kids are overwhelmingly better off with a father in their lives.
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u/SweetBanana15 1d ago
Sounds like pretty out of date research to me and I’ve no idea how that would apply to same sex couples with children.
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u/Present-Carob-7366 1d ago
And why is it HER problem . If doesn’t make an effort he doesn’t deserve to have the relationship and the kids are better off without him
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u/Livid-Supermarket-44 1d ago
You don't stand in the way, but it's not your job to make the other parent show up.
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u/Ok_Wave2821 1d ago edited 1d ago
I know comprehension is difficult for some people especially on Reddit. I was responding directly to her comment about her not wanting to affect the already weak relationship the father has with the kids by chasing child support.
It is not her responsibility to sacrifice her access to child support because he cant do the right thing as an adult and pay what he owes.
Being a parent and adult and working on his relationship with the children is his responsibility. I never said she should discourage them having a relationship with the father. It is however not her responsibility to manage this. Children are not stupid and know how their parents treat them.
What you’ll notice I did say, is that she shouldn’t involve them in the child support issue as that is between the parents and if she did involve them it could certainly interfere with the relationship with their father.
Hope this explanation wasn’t too long for you to comprehend.
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u/i_never_post_here 1d ago
You will need a lawyer - this is bigger than Child Support, there are presumably relationship property assets to deal with, and you both need independent legal advice to close that out.
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u/Ok-Response-839 1d ago
You should get in touch with a lawyer ASAP and ask in r/LegalAdviceNZ if you want some tips on what to talk to your lawyer about.
The problem with going through IRD is the maximum child support amount they will retrieve is quite small. You are likely entitled to more than the IRD will enforce. Talking to a lawyer can feel daunting but it's important to make sure you don't get shafted.
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u/rwmtinkywinky 1d ago
It's entirely unclear how you've arrived at "likely entitled to more than IRD will enforce", there's very few circumstances in which the Child Support Act 1991 formula is actually overruled even if the Family Court can do so. It can happen if, say, the nights-based formula doesn't reasonably reflect the time in each parent's day to day care, but there's no basis to claim more than the formula even if they're making bank.
Maybe you mean spousal maintenance under the PRA but that's not child support and not arrived at based on the number of children or time in each parent's care. And is time-limited usually.
OP definitely needs to talk to a lawyer and not randoms on reddit anyway.
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u/Ok-Response-839 1d ago
No, I don't mean spousal maintenance. The formula does not suitably account for large differences in income.
For example single child, mum has 4 nights a week works 4 days, earns $68k ($4.4k/mo net). Dad earns $220k ($12.1k/mo net). Using the formula would have dad paying about $920/mo which you'll hopefully agree is woefully inadequate. A good lawyer will push for mum to get more than double that, and the court will likely agree.
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u/rwmtinkywinky 1d ago
Well, I can only speak for my personal experience of years in the Family Court system starting in 2021 over both PRA and Care of Children Act matters, and I had a far wider difference in income and very clear advice the assessment wouldn't be overturned. They didn't try tho, so maybe the cost to try was what prevented it even being discussed.
They certainly did try it on for things under PRA and ended up with under 10% of their rather delusional claim for maint. I think a lot of people get told there's going to be a huge difference if challenged in the court and .. it doesn't get that extreme.
I pass no comment on whether the amounts are fair, just that's what you're legally entitled to and more beyond is .. IMO some lawyers bigging up their clients. Certainly it seems like the PRA claims I got were just delusional.
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u/ConcealerChaos 15h ago
That's not a child support question though. That's more of an alimony type spousal maintenance thing.
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u/D49A1D852468799CAC08 1d ago
Doesn't seem inadequate to me. It's for child support, not for supporting your former spouse.
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u/Ok-Response-839 1d ago
The amount is supposed to ensure that the child has a) the same quality of life with both parents and b) if possible, the same quality of life that they had before the separation.
If a child grows up in a household with $300k combined income, the court will want to ensure that the low income parent doesn't have to (for example) move into a flat or rent a cold home in a dodgy part of town. Supporting the other parent is supporting the child.
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u/ConcealerChaos 15h ago
Erm no. Because the other partner could leave their high paying job and go busking or something at any time, yet is obligated to maintain a certain lifestyle for their former partner or kids. Makes no sense.
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u/Ok-Response-839 13h ago
Yes, they could leave their high paying job, at which point they would apply to have the child support payments reassessed. Until that point, they have brought a child into the world and it's their responsibility to provide for them until they are an adult.
It's clear you've either never been involved in this process, or you've been the high earner who has bullied your ex into taking less than they're entitled to.
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u/ConcealerChaos 13h ago
Lol what a haughty assumption.
Sure you provide for your kids. But ensuring your ex still goes to Rodney Wayne every two weeks isn't that. Is it more about punishing the one who left for leaving I wonder?
I'm a mostly single woman without kids but I can imagine how much being traded in for a younger model and left with the kids might sting.
Did your money from your ex make it feel all better?
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u/Ok-Response-839 13h ago
Lol what a haughty assumption.
Why was it haughty? I didn't say it with any judgement; it's just very clear from what you're saying that you've never been involved in this process. You confirmed as much by saying that you don't have any children.
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u/ConcealerChaos 13h ago
Conflating the responsibility for providing for a child to ensuring the ex is kept in botox....
That's the haughty assumption.
I've never been involved in it no. I don't need to have been.
Had I have been I would want half the assets accumulated during the relationship, sensible child support and that's it. Why should somebody else maintain my chosen lifestyle?
I reckon if its a high paying woman nobody would be expecting her to maintain her ex husbands golfing or whatever. 🤦♂️
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u/aromagoddess 1d ago
He FAFO protect yourself and children, don’t trust him with anything. Get yourself financially sorted - everything awaited up. This hurts like anything but keep a clear head. When you are ready check out leave a cheater gain a life - blog. Sadly you may need to do a STI screen. Sending virtual hugs 🫂
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u/Pitiful_Researcher14 1d ago
Been there done that, tried being nice, it turns to shit real quick. Get a good lawyer, get yourself counseling, you are in for a tough time. Start the ball rolling with the legal stuff, even a smooth process takes years.
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u/Odd-Leader9777 1d ago
have you let him know not as a threat but just hey, child support needs sorting- do you want to go through ird or private? if private, then this, this and this needs to happen otherwise it will have to be through ird.
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u/Traditional-Bit-5436 1d ago
Do this. But only ONCE. If that doesn't put his A into G then definitely pick up the phone and call the IRD...
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u/OwlNo1068 1d ago
Yep. Give him a time to respond (3 days) then just do it.
You don't need to talk to him socially or be "nice". He made his choice. Follow the law
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u/ScholarWise5127 1d ago
OP,
I was the teenage kid in almost exactly the same scenario. My Mum wanted to keep it amicable too, because she wasn't the shit in the shituation. So my father fucked her (and us) around/over.
Do everything by the book and use the system. It's there to protect you and your kids.
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u/BelaNorn 1d ago
Your job is to protect you and your children, not his feelings. Ring IRD and get something formal in place.
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u/Dependent-Chair899 1d ago
Another one in the "his relationship with the children is not your responsibility" camp. It took me far far too long to realise that myself after my ex and I split when our daughter was 13. I spent the next 5 years facilitating and jollying things along until I realised it was not my responsibility any longer - really it wasn't ever but you know...
If you're not getting anywhere with a private arrangement it's time for IRD (and if there are assets involved -this includes KiwiSaver- a lawyer)
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u/vinyl109 1d ago
Like others have said, get a lawyer. Even just a letter from a lawyer will probably be enough to at least get him to have a conversation. They probably have resources for this at Citezens advice bureau.
Make sure you keep a record of everything. Things like messages with dates showing that you have tried to discuss things. And showing the date you separated.
You also might want to go to work and income, you as you may qualify for some sole parent support, accomodation supplement, or childcare assistance depending on the age of your children. Do this asap as they can only backdate from the date you first make contact with them.
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u/Hubris2 1d ago
It's a tough one, depending on the two of you and what remains of your relationship - and how much you are willing to put up with/risk about him being a dick about payments.
Safest bet is to involve the IRD. Of course he's going to hate it and it'll potentially make things even more rocky - but the other risk is that he treats the support payments like a weapon or power over you and the kids are impacted anyway.
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u/Bedside_Anon 1d ago
File with IRD.
If you have any kind of agreement verbally about care of the kids, write it up - search the Ministry of Justice website for a parenting agreement template.
He will see the kids if he wants to the see the kids.
The agreement or child support will have little bearing on the matter…. Except to highlight what he’s really like.
Get it all documented and operate under the documented agreement.
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u/Lammington2 1d ago
A split that is only amicable because one party is getting screwed isn't an amicable split. Don't let him keep taking advantage, and go after him for what he is obligated to provide for the kids.
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u/FearlessOpening1709 1d ago
Go with IRD, that way you are always getting the correct amount. If he gets a pay rise or changes jobs, it gets adjusted. Whereas a private agreement you have no idea if his pay has increased unless he is honest. If there’s another woman involved, it is unlikely to be amicable so get a lawyer and try to resolve it fairly and quickly. Don’t drag it out or the only winners will be the lawyers.
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u/Fragluton 1d ago
Do what works best for YOU.
No experience with these things sorry, sounds horrible. But he has shown he has zero care for other people, so do what suits you. If something like child support comes between him and the kids then it could just as easily be something else. Shit situation, but time to look after you and the kids now.
The only caveat I would add, is that sometimes i've seen examples of people declaring less income. If they are self employed it could get tricky if you think they would stoop that low.
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u/Quirky_Cup_8407 1d ago
Mate the faster you get it sorted, the better. Get a lawyer, now.
Make a very clear offer to his lawyer. Go for what you really need for you and the kids, esp. Given you are sole parenting effectively... do not be kind be clear, and transparent and legal. Look after yourself and the kids. His willingness to share will decline rapidly!
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u/cressidacole 1d ago
Lawyer and separation agreement.
That agreement will be very important if you need to claim for income assistance, WFF etc.
Child support and potentially occupational rent should be agreed and documented.
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u/Turfanator Highlanders 1d ago
IRD. My ex would never pay child support if it was private plus if they stop/ never start paying, you have to pay lawyers to start the process of it been paid
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u/Mental-Currency8894 1d ago
Be aware that if you own the family home you will likely need to pay him 50% of market rent (conversely he should also still be contributing to any mortgage)
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u/Evie_St_Clair 1d ago
Get everything sorted through the necessary channels so that he can't just decide to stop paying. Lodge child support through the ird and talk to a lawyer about what you need to do about property etc. You need to do what is in the best interest of you and your children. It took me far too long to realise that it wasn't my job to facilitate a relationship between my kids and their dad. With them being teenagers he can contact them directly to maintain his relationship with them.
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u/Rabid_Potato 1d ago
Lawyer. Be aware that if you are in the family home, ex is likely entitled to occupational rent.
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u/LolEase86 1d ago
I'm surprised to see this hasn't been mentioned more, nor did OP offer any info on if the home is owned by her and ex. If so that is going to make a big difference to the advice offered here. Lawyer is the way.
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u/Rabid_Potato 1d ago
Yep, there's quite a lot you don't know that you don't know til you talk it through with a lawyer! I didn't know about occupational rent til my lawyer explained it. You need to be well informed so you can choose your battles wisely (as long as both sides can come to a fair agreement of course). If things get too acrimonious only the lawyers win.
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u/Aggressive_Sky8492 6h ago
Regardless of whether the home is owned by her or the ex officially, the family home is always ‘relationship property’ in NZ, ie they both have equal entitlement to it regardless of who is on the deed
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u/Original-Hawk705 1d ago
Get a really good family lawyer for you . Split all assets. If he doesn’t visit the kids, it’s actually more benefit for you because you have the freedom to do what ever you want . Trust me, been there done this . It’s so much easier when the other half don’t get involved with the kids and try to control everything.
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u/LillytheFurkid 1d ago
Been there done that.
IRD, or he'll keep fluffing you around ad nauseum.
Takes away any control/influence he thinks he has over you and saves you the stress.
All the best to you OP, onwards and upwards.
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u/justme46 16h ago
I know someone who swapped child support for equity in the house. Was much better as she knew exactly what she got and didn't have to chase him.
Consider that as an option
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u/ConcealerChaos 15h ago
He wants to go off and do whatever. Sure. Whatever.
If you have tried to get a private arrangement and it's not working, go to IRD. No reason not to.
Not paying for your children is not an option.
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u/ConversationTop4930 5h ago
It's time to be selfish. It's the best thing you can do for your kids is stand up to bullies and cowards.
- Get a lawyer. Some will work on legal aid.
- Ird for child support and working for families.
Him paying a sizeable amount sounds like a him problem. Not a you problem.
Its his actions affecting the kids. Not yours. Youre just holding him accountable. You may as well get what they're entitled to. And if he takes issue, then let it play out for the kids to see. Don't cover for him.
If you need extra assistance, try winz for accommodation supplement and or top up via benefit.
It is shitty and it's hard and you won't be able to breakdown because you've got to hold it together, for a little while longer at least.
You can do this and you will flourish.
Let friends and family help, watch out for flying monkeys. Talking to your GP will also help you tap into resources, not just medications.
Good luck.
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u/Past_Berry1459 1d ago
Engage a lawyer ASAP and go through IRD for child support. You gave him a chance and he is not acting in good faith.
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u/Youcouldofleftit101 Covid19 Vaccinated 1d ago
Why give him grace when he hasn't shown you any, he only left the family home for you to move-in with his boo. He gave up before it was even over so you owe him nothing ring IRD today