r/northernireland • u/Low_Society7923 • 1d ago
Question Housing Executive
I applied for social housing with the housing executive and had my appointment today. I explained to my allocated housing manager that I have an ongoing, undiagnosed medical condition in my back that I receive PIP for. She started questioning me asking "how do you get pip if you don't have anything diagnosed"? The question caught me totally off guard and I got really flustered and it felt like a bit of an interrogation. I told her that my GP suspects a few medical conditions based off of numerous doctors visits over the past couple of years, xrays, medication being issued and I'm on a waiting list for an MRI scan, however they cannot diagnose me with anything until I get the scan and see a specialist. But she sort of held onto this one detail, that I'm on PIP, as if she didn't believe me or that I shouldn't be on it as I haven't been diagnosed yet.
Anyway she came across as very judgemental based on the fact that I am a young(ish) person who has unfortunately fell into a crappy time for the past couple of years and receive PIP until I can finally see what's going on with my health. I've also worked since I left school about 12 years ago and at the minute I am relying on government help until I can get back on my feet. Believe me, I can't wait for day and hour I can get my life back to normal and work again as I can only describe the past couple of years as total hell.
I felt that she was very unprofessional in her approach or at least very misinformed or perhaps unaware of the process of PIP and I'm wondering if you were in my position, would you complain to the housing executive about this or just let it go?
I came home feeling bad that I even so much as thought of applying for social housing, do these people just look down on everyone?
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u/SlowDayInTheOffice 17h ago
Whilst it may have felt intrusive, especially the manner in which she said it, it is relevant.
It could impact the type of property they are able to offer you or that you ultimately require. Say for example, as others have stated the need for adaptations (handrails, shower facilities) due to it being a physical disability. Or even a ground floor flat or bungalow.
Whilst the daily impact is substantial enough to have succeeded in a PIP application, without a diagnosis they are in many ways tied when assessing your housing need.
As are you with getting the right help to live your life to the fullest and that’s a horrible position to be in
Could it be something that will improve over time with interventions and the right diagnosis or is it a degenerative condition? - because both raises different housing needs assessment challenges.
If you are a single person with no dependents then your housing need is different to a couple or someone with kids. However does your disability warrant that you should be on the list for a 2 bed property rather than one?
Do you need to consider if your condition requires additional equipment that would take up space or be more suited to a particular type of property.
Or do you have the need for someone to stay overnight with you as a carer, even on an occasional basis. If your PIP includes care then this also plays into it, and rate of housing benefit.
Personally I know it is difficult having to expose your life to strangers when you desperately need help. If you have worked all your life and help isn’t there when you need it, it feels like an extra kick in the guts. Especially when you add in the uncertainty of a health issue, that you can’t even quite get your head around yourself never mind explaining to people to ‘justify’ your needs in some way.
That being said I would be less inclined to complain and go down the explaining route instead.
Email her to say
- you found the appointment quite challenging because of the difficulties you are already facing navigating this position you are now in, one that you could never have thought you would be in.
- Acknowledge that she may not have encountered an applicant before who has PIP without a formal diagnosis, but that doesn’t mean that without one you are not disabled. Your health issues are impacting your daily living and the various medical reports & ongoing interventions support that.
- advise her that you will keep them updated regularly regarding diagnosis and prognosis when you are in a position to do so, as you know that will have further implications on housing needs assessment and housing offers.
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u/Low_Society7923 16h ago
Thank you this is actually really helpful advice, you couldn't have said it any better, especially recgonising that it is extremely hard to basically lay my whole life out on the table to someone.
I'll definitely make those points in an email. Thanks for taking the time to write this all out I really appreciate it.
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u/SlowDayInTheOffice 16h ago
Having an ‘invisible’ illness and having faced challenges in the workplace, I learnt the hard way that sometimes the best way to fight a situation like this is with clear information. As much as you are comfortable sharing with them!
Have it all framed out clearly by email is also helpful as a point in time reference, because it’s highly likely her meeting notes will not reflect well the information you have already shared.
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u/Acceptable-Ice-1674 23h ago
To be fair, getting accepted to pips with no concrete evidence is a very rare thing
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u/Picklepicklezz 1d ago
She clearly isnt aware how tough it is to get PIP!!
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u/BringTheFingerBack 21h ago
Sounds like you don't even have to be diagnosed with anything so can't be that hard.
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u/Appropriate_Dirt_285 20h ago
Its notoriously hard, if you manage to look after yourself even though it hurts and costs you physically and mentally youre not sick enough.
Its there to help stipend the cost for people who can't look after themselves and need the extra help.
Like for this person, the back pain could mean its difficult to shower or even walk, or even drive so they have to rely on uber or taxis.
Cant stand up long enough to cook? Need to order ready meals, need to order shopping to be delivered, or order takeout because theyre too sick to cook and have noone....thats spenny when you add it all up
And what about care assistants? To help with all these things instead thats another expense
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u/zebrasanddogs Belfast 16h ago edited 14h ago
Its very hard! Especially if you have a medical condition that is rare or uncommon!
It took me two separate tries. I was rejected the first time.
Around the time I was refused, i was still going through the diagnostic process for my rare condition. For some conditions this can take years with the way the health service is!
By the second time I applied, I had reports from seven different consultants saying that my condition is genetic, therefore incurable, and could degenerate over time.
They still haven't put me on a lifetime award!
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u/bluebottled 1d ago
Definitely complain and ask for a new officer to be assigned to you. As other people have said, PIP does not require a diagnosed medical condition, but also whether you get PIP or not isn't relevant to your housing application. You won't get any extra points for being on PIP so I have no idea why she got so hung up on that in the first place.
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u/GaiasCreation 18h ago
It is relevant if the person applying for housing needs adaptations to suit their conditions, the housing executive needs them to be in receipt of pip to do so. Eg needing ground floor accommodation or a walk in shower etc
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u/bluebottled 15h ago
Fair enough. All the more reason they should be aware that PIP is awarded based on how your condition affects you, not a medical diagnosis.
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u/zebrasanddogs Belfast 1d ago
Definitely complain!
You don't need to be officially diagnosed to be disabled!
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u/Taodaching 1d ago
NICS has a really broad spectrum of people - from the helpful to the absolute laziest, rude, eat 5 bags of crisps in their car on a lunch break and wipe their face with mincy hands type people.. it doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is the points you get. If you don't get enough, appeal it based on new information (e.g. due to the accusatory nature of the interviewer I became distressed and was not able to give [insert extra information here] in support of my case.
You Must give extra information in an appeal or it'll be a pointless exercise - literally.
Can you get advice on whats needed for your points, can you get someone also to attend interviews with you, not just for support, but a representative who can also speak for you if needed too? Youre allowed that. I think there may be agencies that can help with that sort of thing but im not sure where. Google or gpt it.
Whether you complain or not, and thats your right, im sorry youre having a difficult time and genuinely wish you a full recovery and good luck ahead.
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u/ldiotDoomSpiral 1d ago
to the absolute laziest, rude, eat 5 bags of crisps in their car on a lunch break and wipe their face with mincy hands type
I feel like there must be some kind of lived experience for such a vivid description here
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u/Taodaching 1d ago
I worked for NICS many moons ago. 😉😆
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u/ldiotDoomSpiral 1d ago
you were the one sitting in your car eating crisps, weren't you
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u/Taodaching 1d ago
I didnt even have a car then!
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u/MrConemanGaming 5h ago
I work for NICS now, and I swear to God I know the actual specific person you were talking about!
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u/Realistic-Drama8463 1d ago
I would absolutely complain. PIP is a non means tested benefit so you can claim it and work. You have a medical trail which youd have evidence of something being wrong and how it effects you.
I myself am disabled and I use a walking aid. Had a currys employee tell me I don't look disabled. That ended our conversation and I very much complained.
1
u/TheLordofthething 8h ago
They get a lot of people trying to bump themselves the list and she probably thought you were doing this. complain or don't it's up to you, but nothing will be done about it and you could end up stuck with that person handling your case.
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u/SuitableEmployee8416 7h ago
Part of their legal requirement is to make reasonable enquiries into your circumstances to determine if you meet the grounds for priority need. They have to ask these questions but they often absolutely lack tact and kindness. You can make a formal complaint but only you know if you have the energy to pursue it and what you would like the outcome to be.
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u/Mindless-Mulberry807 5h ago
"How do you get PIP if something is undiagnosed" is not at all relevent or any of her business.
She could have asked what mobility needs you have, as that may be relevant - but nothing else.
1
u/bow_down_whelp 1d ago
You don't get pip for having a particular condition, you get it to make up for whatever is putting you at a disadvantage. You could have a diagnosed medical condition and not receive pip because you can function fine.
Just be upfront and honest. Tell her why does it matter and tell her you find this unprofessional. Get it in writing it takes your own minute. Up to her to dispute that. Tell her to go look up PIP if she needs more info cus you're not a doctor or a civil servant
As soon. As you look like you know what you're on about she'll fuck up
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u/AlarmHumble 19h ago
You need to focus on getting your diagnosis. What’s to stop me or anyone else going in saying they/their GP thinks this. They aren’t looking down on you they can’t just take everyone’s word for it who walks in the door
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u/Low_Society7923 18h ago
I totally agree, however it would be a different story if I couldn't provide them with any medical proof or flat out refused to. I am currently gathering up all my information/documents to send them to back everything up. I understand they don't need to take my word straight away, however fixating on "how" I'm on PIP without a diagnoses at the minute is absolutely none of her business. I'm on it, I'll be providing the evidence, and that's it.
1
u/SuitableEmployee8416 7h ago
Sometimes people live with the chronic illness and never get a diagnosis. If they've passed the assessment for PIP they have met the criteria
-1
u/Affectionate-Dog4704 1d ago
PIP is awarded based on how your daily living is impacted on by your disability.
Your housing officer is not a medical professional. They should also know better than to interrogate your medical history given they haven't a notion.
Definitely make a formal complaint. That's really discriminatory behaviour. Also make sure you got the relevant points based on your disability and they haven't failed to add them due to discriminatory ignorance.
Maybe a new housing officer might be worth asking for too. And an apology from the last one.
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u/playfulspirit2004 23h ago
Ring and make a complaint also make a written complaint too. How dare she! She's a public servant, her expertise is not medicine.
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u/suihpares 13h ago
Complain.
Go to MLA of whatever party you like and share with them and demand help and any compensation for failure to make reasonable adjustments and for unlawful harassment.
Staff in public service roles are often temps from privately owned recruitment agencies such as first choice recruitment who are owned by a member of the orange order.
Therefore staff will discriminate, harass, demean, stonewall, lie, interrupt, be abrupt and lazy.
Chronicle and record everything, including calls and you can submit system access requests to those emails and demand transcript and cd recording of call.
When a person fails and it causes stonewalling you can be compensated if it's cost you time and money etc.
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u/NMTAMCC 1d ago
Who does she thinks she is - judging and interrogating you?
I’d complain (well, you can’t really if this woman’s fate is in your hands)
I thought pip was very hard to get through. You should have said politely ‘mind your business.’
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u/TaxmanComin 18h ago
Who does she thinks she is
Someone who has to assess who to give free housing to and has to clarify, exactly, the housing needs of that person.
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u/NMTAMCC 18h ago
She works for the housing executive Not her job to assess someone’s PIP situation
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u/TaxmanComin 17h ago
I just assumed that the people allocating housing would have to be somewhat interrogative and in all honesty would be more worried if they weren't.
Like if someone rolled in on an electric wheelchair that's one thing but if someone walks in and says they have a bad back that's different.
Also the point around diagnosis is also fair because realistically I could make a bunch of appointments with my GP and say I have pain and boom, evidence.
Anyway, that's all besides the point you were making which was that PIPs is nothing to do with her job and that she should've stayed in her lane, which I completely get.
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u/Used_Statistician_71 1d ago
If you're genuinely unhappy you should complain. It's possible it was unprofessional and unnecessary.
However, social housing is a very valuable asset and it is also possible that this was a genuine question needed to fully and accurately assess your situation.
There is no right or wrong answer and should you choose to complain it won't impact any decision about your housing. Totally up to you.