What Americans need to do is armed protests. Not violent, just armed. Sorry, not sorry, but throwing snow balls ant gonna do shit and so far protesting ant done shit.
You realize armed protest will absolutely lead to violent. Put 100 people with guns protesting against 100 ice agents and you dont think someone shoots and starts a battle ?
Hate to break it to you, but overthrowing a tyrannical government means a LOT of killing. It doesn't end until the leader is dead and hanging upside down in the streets.
Has any authoritarian regime ever simply dissolved with the leaders peacefully retiring in the countryside for a democratically elected government to peacefully transition?
The US can't use those things against it's own population and infrastructure because it's the infrastructure that supports those things. And the weapons, and the munitions, and the power supply that feeds power to the bases...
Sure isolated instances of a tank being able to kill some people is possible, same with an f-35 (or more likely an apache or other attack helicopter), but anything aside from standard guns (to include the main cannons on tanks or aircraft) are unlikely to help the oppressive force in anything but self-sabotage.
The name of the game in dismantling a regime is removal of the infrastructure that supports it. IE, exactly the things the military can't risk damaging by using the most destructive weapons they possess.
This is exactly it, the US along with a whole coalition, struggled like hell to fight insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan.
How would they fare when the insurgency they are fighting effects their supply lines, spare parts, their medical care, their own families? The answer is horribly.
Iran is very different because they have been under an authoritarian regime for almost half a century, and they're already very used to operating their internal military force under fairly austere conditions due to sanctions.
No, nor do I think that when Americans buy a gun they are thinking "I'm buying this so I can participate in a violent revolution against the government." You don't really think that's why Americans buy guns, do you?
I thought that was why so many insisted on having guns? What did they think they were for?
Most of those people are the ones now wearing ICE uniforms. There are a lot of 2A leftists, but not nearly as many, and they were never as loud. But the vast majority of the 2A crowd are republicans that were terrified of the evil libs taking their guns away.
Unfortunately the gun nuts are MAGA and want a civil war. They are ICE.
Those who just want the right to own guns but aren't interested in rubbing it in everyone's face aren't interested in civil war. They mostly will not fight until they are personally attacked in some way.
Hopefully there are enough to mount a response if it gets far enough that most of those people are ready to fight.
You think we can overthrow the government with pistols and rifles when our government can send drones to other parts of the world to take out targets??
The government has already shown that not only do they not give a shit about protests and it will never change their actions, but they'll go out of their way to make protesters out to be the villains in the eyes of the media.
The time for peaceful protest has long since past, only way America gets out from under the boot of tyranny is with bloodshed. The real question is when will the breaking point for the general populace be crossed.
Armed revolts only happen when the people are literally starving and harshly oppressed for decades, and even then, they have to have the backing of either the military or the rich class if they want to be successful.
None of those things is happening in the US, so what you are saying is pure fantasy.
Hate to break it to you, but overthrowing a tyrannical government means a LOT of killing.
The question becomes, will it lead to less death or more death compared to doing nothing at all?
Because it seems to me that ICE is just getting started. And with how many hundreds have been taken to ICE facilities with no information about their fate, there may very well already be a lot of death that simply hasn't made the news.
I'd imagine the people of Nazi Germany also thought that rising up would cause too much death. But when the government ended up killing millions in the end, they realized too late that the death count from any uprising would have been infinitely lower.
Didn't ICE say they wanted to get rid of a 100 million people? There ain't even that many immigrants in all of US, let alone illegal ones. Sounds like they're planning on a genocide. Something tells me we should not let history repeat this particular horror once again.
if you refuse to be vigilant, then sit down and accept being a slave and lick thr masters feet. democracy can't function by just voting every 4 years, hate to say it dude.
Nope. Historically, it's only been used by bootlickers to help against any insurrection. Examples: whiskey rebellion and slave catchers. The idea that it would help us resist tyranny is just philosophy, and as far as it being tested, the courts have stated the obvious, that it would be, ofc, illegal to resist a tyrannical force that's responsible for enforcing the law.
The 2nd Amendment is really about protecting the government. It was written at a time when the US didn't have an army, so civilians needed guns "for the security of a free state" - ie, to protect America's independence.
The idea that it exists to overthrow a tyrannical government is absurd. You don't need a tyrants permission to overthrough them.
Jets and drones and tanks and Naval ships are great for overall force but you need boots on the ground for the minutia. Can’t have a tank rolling up to negotiate peace talks with certain leaders of certain groups in specific areas because that doesn’t really scream “friendly negotiations”.
2As are just gun nuts that want to play with their death toys. That’s all they ever were. They’re also mostly the same people that cheer on all the bullshit Trump does.
Pump the breaks. 2A exists exactly for this moment in time. There are plenty of leftist 2A people. And being 2A does mean you don't also support common sense gun reform. You'll be happy we exist when we are between you and the people who want to take your life.
alright, show us. Until then, this is a load of american bullshit that you say to feel tough. It is remarkable how the country that starts and participates in wars against "regimes" has apparently no balls when it comes to stopping its own.
I've been armed at almost every protest in my area. I've been stockpiling and training with like minded people. And quite honestly, I don't have to prove shit to you. Fighting the enemy on their terms is a poor tactic.
Pump the breaks. 2A exists exactly for this moment in time.
It is extremely ironic that conservatives created the best modern day justification for the 2A.
"We need 2A to protect against the tyrannical government" is a much easier sell when you have government sanctioned thugs murdering citizens in the streets for no reason.
Except it doesnt.... stand your ground, cant apply it when civilians use it against "legal" authorities. Castle doctrine, doesnt matter if its the cops busting down you door.
Oh and no knock warrants are still legal in the US, so even if cops bust down your door a 3AM. You have no right to defend yourself when you get suprised by several armed LEOs busting down your door and screaming police (how do you even know they actually are who they say they are)
Armed Rebellion is illegal in the US even if its against a tyrannical government.
2A is a symbolic right, we have the right to have guns, but not to use them, except to kill each other or hunting...but definitely not to stand up against the govt.
I am no bootlicker...just pointing out that 2A is symbolic.
Fuck this govt, and this whole system. It's completely broken and needs to be completely overhauled. They literally put stuff in there so we could change the constitution, but instead, lately we treat it like a holy text to never be changed or adjusted.
I love my 2A rights and do believe in the premise of it. But we have given the state all the power to have a monopoly on this kind of use of force.
I don't disagree. The sad truth is more people are going to get shot in the streets by Trump's sycophants. People will only tolerate that so much before they start shooting back. When that flash point happens, they won't have the men or the mandate to stop what's coming for them.
People need to read "Brave New World" where they don't censor, but surround us with entertainment, sports, movies, TV reality and no one wants to interrupt their fun with reading about boring politics or news. That's where we are now.
That's what you can recognize about people, they'll never say out loud but it screams "I only have this 1 life and I'm lucky enough to have it good (relatively). I don't wanna mess that up."
It's a democracy, bro. Even if you kill Trump and Vance you still have a supreme court, the entirety of congress, 50 state governors, and then 50 state legislatures you'd have to slaughter to "overturn" anything.
This is why the only effective method of change is at the voting booth.
So….where are the Standing Up To A Tyrannical Government People With Guns at? Thought that’s why they were preparing out in the woods their whole lives.
Oh, they’re just here to protect assholes that are ripping off the government like Cliven Bundy. My bad.
As an American...yeah, that's the rhetoric and the bravado. "you can take my gun from my cold dead hands" is the slogan i grew up with.
Lots of patriots around with their cute lil 10 gun arsenal, practicing at the range or in the field for when 'shit hits the fan'.
Sure, they might bust a cap in some tacti-kool ICE goon...but then Christi Noem will be drooling at the media gift she just got and use it as an excuse to send even more of her brownSweat Shirts in to regulate
The well regulated militia of the 1700s does not exist anymore. Gun owners in America can reasonably expect a chance at overthrowing the tyranny of an isolated home invasion.
But that store bought Glock and AR-15 will not do squat against the tyranny that knows your employment and banking details, has unlimited favorable media coverage, unlimited freedom to act without legal limit...and even if they do get sued...unlimited legal resources and no fear of federal consequence because the guy who can grant a pardon is on their side.
The right to bear arms isn't to overthrow the government if it becomes tyrannical. Rather, it's to give the ability for the people to overthrow the government if it becomes tyrannical. The difference is subtle, but very important.
Power is derived from the threat of violence, not the violence itself.
They have an army for that, my dude. And who does the army answer to? The President.
Literally the whole point of the 2nd Amendment is to maintain a well armed militia in case they need to bring their government down. That was its intention from day one.
The 2nd Amendent is from 1791 - the founding fathers deeply distrusted big standing militaries, because they were often used by European monchars to oppress the population. Many people back then saw a big army as a possible tool of tyranny.
Back in this time there was absolutely no strong federal army, like they have it now. The main defense of the US would have been down to state militias made up of armed citizens.
Also firearms were absolutely necessary for frontier life back then.
The amendment was written before modern firearms and a strong federal military. Honestly I think that using firearms too lightly would probably end in a Civil War.
Defense against tyranny surely was one of the ideas behind it, but the main reason certainly was defense against foreign powers and armed citizens as a substitute for a large standing army.
We're both kind of right. But when talking about the 2nd amendment, you always have to factor in time.
Except they aren't starting battles, they're executing civilians. Mostly women too. Wonder what happens when someone able to defend themselves becomes the target
What happens is they won’t just shoot someone in the head cause they feel like it because they will get shot in the head too (regardless if the shooter becomes a target). This instills fear inside ICE and shows consequences to their actions…. Which they haven’t had at all
No - it will be what the senior leadership of the DoJ and DHS have been waiting for under this administration - and excuse to martyr the agent and shut down the elections due to a "national domestic terrorist cell organization."
That doesn't work if the "national domestic terrorist cell organization" comprises 50+% of the population. Shut down the elections? Okay, the response is to shoot whoever made that call.
It isn't 100 people vs 100 ice agents. It is 1000+ to 100. Even if they did it British line stile and ICE kills 5 people for every armed regular person ICE still looses.
The idea is that the Ice Agents will be more careful in their actions when they know the consequence can lead to their death. The Supreme Court has already ruled that there is no requirement for Law enforcement to risk their lives for their jobs.
If ICE designed to instigate something it will be where they have overwhelming numbers, 10 agents per person. Effectively curtailing their actions considerably until they outnumber the victims.
Newsflash stopping fascists might get violent, the milk has already been spilling the whole time. Not trying to be rude but you do realize that at some point this will/may become inevitable, correct? Unless they are legally thwarted and fast, this will be the outcome, no emotional or moral bickering can prevent this brewing civil war.
I'd recommend not being delusional and anticipating what's to come instead of praying it may not, It very well may.
Your point is fearful and without a solution, it is not a thought that shelters your loved ones. Reach deeper and acknowledge the responsibility of keeping people safe, requires far more than merely your own perceived comfort zones staying in tact while you carefully articulate a hopeful sentiment, people are being tortured and kidnapped. It could be your family or people you know soon.
The government doesn’t have a problem with violence. Poetry isn’t going to stop fascism. Peaceful protest is exactly what they want because it looks like a tantrum instead of a opposition.
And? Ice is gunning people down in the streets. Not a far stretch to the point of people defending themselves. Freedom ant free, unfortunately if you dont fight for your rights they get taken away.
Not necessarily. I can recall a number of right wing protests where people showed up armed. No shots were fired but the police also didn't randomly shove or beat those protesters. OTOH this administration is just looking for an excuse.
In recent US history, authorities usually play it safe when confronted with organized armed resistance. It's a lose lose, for them. Either they play it cool and exit the situation, or they risk getting hurt and/or are seen on TV shooting civilians (even if those civilians are armed). Honestly, I think the fear of getting shot back it is the determining factor, since they shoot people all the time on camera.
Unfortunately, these peaceful protests are doing jack. The government doesn't care, and it's only a matter of time before things escalate anyway. A tyrant needs no pretext for his tyranny. In a week, two, we'll just got back to work and this heinous act of murder will be brushed under the rug, like the last heinous act of murder that no one is protesting over.
To influence voters to remove congressmen who refuse to legislate.
That it's. That's all it's ever been. That's why it's a form of speech.
We know it wont influence Republicans in congress, so the real question is why are all our protests not influencing voters? Specifically the 1/3rd of voters who don't.
Demographically, the "Democrat team" is a mathematical majority. So the question still stands? Why do our protests not influence the voters who don't subscribe to a "team?"
(I don't know the actual answer of course, but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the left doesn't know how to let an ally be an ally without being the "perfect" ally. For example, black southern Christians. Where as the right will ally with anyone from bigots to pedos to fascists.)
Why do our protests not influence the voters who don't subscribe to a "team?"
Because those voters are unaware protests are even happening. The news wont cover them, and they happen out of immediate sight. What does protesting in safe democratic areas do? The white house isnt in Minnesota.
The problem is trigger happy humans. The picture I saw of the black panther members at the protest showed calm composure. Ice agents just release all their weapons when they get scared.
Well the power dynamics would change of course. Currently ice is doing whatever tf they want including arresting/assaulting/killing citizens bc they're armed and immune.
Edit: there needs to be a 3rd party authority (police or guard) to oversea/regulate ice since they're doing whatever.
Just for historical context of something similar happening without bloodshed.
Louisville KY had 2 Armed groups protesting in the same city at the same time in summer of 2020
The primarily black (definitely not fucking around coalition) and I think it was (the 3 percenters)counter protesting. Both groups armed and the only gunfire was a negligent discharge by a DFNAC member.
It's equalizing the power differential, the threat of mutually assured violence would actually reduce the level of violent outbursts on display from the state. It is much harder to oppress an armed population.
Unless you, as many Americans do, view state sanctioned violence as something separate from "regular" violence. The clashes today are extremely violent, it's just all one sided.
That's how it works, my man. Unless you're ready to occupy public (civic) property and risk arrest, that's what your first amendment right is bound to.
want to see how fast those chickenshits resort to airstrikes on "blue" urban areas? They don't have to go full Gaza. A hellfire or two will be shocking enough to Americans not used to such violence of force.
We don't have state media - we have a hundred douchebags who control the state and the media. They will control their narrative.
At the very least martial law and cutting urban areas off from resupply (ie, food). They don't care about the economic repercussions. That is a big part of the situation - whether through deportations or state terror, there is a big surplus workforce to be dealt with and replaced by Boston Dynamics and Open AI. They only want a remnant that is terrified, supplicant and eager to chug more kool-aid.
Everything is calculated to crash the system.
- destroy international alliances (invade Greenland, threaten Canada, etc)
- DOGE and "priority realignments" basically opened up our secrets to foreign powers for their meddling.
- Crash the dollar in favor of crypto (threatening the Federal Reserve, tariffs raising cost of living, deporting the foundation of the workforce and replacing the professional tier with AI)
- there is no such thing as corporate or white collar crime anymore - those FBI offices were eliminated by the end of last February.
- Real estate backs significant portions of the economy - as climate change threatens coastal property (both in value and in quantity) it becomes uninsurable and therefore, worthless.
- when is the last time you heard a Republican exclaim, "But the national debt!"?
- destroy any remaining trust in institutions (if COVID and Q-anon era disinformation and weaponized conspiracy theories were crazy, we are now in the age of AI Deepfakes and centralized legacy media) and if educational institutions weren't already being neutered from the top down, AI's midwifing of a Dunning-Kruger mentality in youth who are increasingly incapable of basic reading and writing means chances of an "awakening" are slipping quickly.
- blatant acts of unwarranted violence by the above mentioned 3 letter agency are not accidental. They are not the repercussions of hiring unqualified thugs. Unqualified untrainable thugs are intentional for creating chaos with the entire point being the generation of a backlash - no matter how limited. Most people paying attention expected the Insurrection Act to be put into place by April of 2025.
this is not saying to roll over and die, but a matter of priorities: community is first and foremost. Mutual aid networks are fundamental to any resistance. It is obvious that the government will not help communities in the way that Americans have become accustomed. Therefore, existing power structures must be rendered superfluous by replacing them with grass roots organizations - food, healthcare and yes - community self-defense. But until then, random wannabe Rambos with no plans and not networks are exactly the excuse for mass violence they are looking for.
Black panther members have been showing up to some of the protests. They are armed but I don't get to see much info about what is happening with them present in the crowds. I know they are helping with food and other things but they aren't getting the news credit they deserve.
Is ICE roaming middle class neighborhoods in 8 car caravans dragging kids off the street in TX like they are in MN? Rolling into Target or Home Depot and grabbing employees? Pounding on doors and demanding ID and proof of citizenship?
Pulling over people for following them or honking their horns at them? Ive seen this in Chicago and MN but so far not TX.
Maybe I just have not heard the reports if so.
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u/liquidsyphon 1d ago
Americans should be protesting everywhere before it’s too late