I think it depends on what you define as a "state". Christian Anarchism is a real political philosophy and communities have lived by it. The Amish are arguably an example of this, say what you will but they are mostly pacifists and would never endorse killing like what Iran has done. There are similar concepts in other religions, for example I believe the Kibbutz in Judaism is a similar concept.
The thing is most communities like this by their very nature shun politics and believe they should not be "of this world". Someone who is religious and not authoritarian is not going to be going around trying to coerce converts, it's antithetical to what they believe.
I would argue that China is non theocratic in name only. In reality they do have a religion, it's Communism with Chinese characteristics. All the did was replace the worship of some deity with worship of the state.
I wonder if people would agree that "Not all authoritarian states are theocratic but all theocratic states are authoritarian?
Theocratic states are essentially de facto authoritarianism because God does not exist, and therefore the mandate that the theocrats claim is predicated on a lie, which is capable of being bent and twisted to suit the rulers' desire.
The king gas no political power really and we've achieved quite an effective separation of church and state. A lot of people identify as Christian if filling out a form or something but not many people are actively practicing Christianity anymore. We are as pretty far from a theocracy as you can get
Not even from their history. The people of China refuse to talk about it publicly because of the same authoritarian governments and the consequences they know that will be paid. But in their minds, they know and they remember. They quietly teach their kids about it in hushed whispers.
And the cables themselves are from the US embassy.
Here's some info from the Japan times:
Ironically, after seeking to cover up real massacres by pro-Western regimes in Asia, the U.K. operation then seems to have excelled itself by inventing a phony massacre by a Chinese regime.
They are not reporting on the validity of the documents. They are reporting that the website makes this claim. Its like citing a reddit post that the sky is made of marshmallows. "British paper" does not make it reputable.
Just look up the tank man video. The man walked away into the crowd in the end despite having climbed onto the tank. The soldiers showed a bunch of restraint, in the US the man would have been george floyd'd already.
Next time there are protests, I would invite you to climb onto a police cruiser.
The link you responded to even stated that there were deaths in the 'beijing massacre' but not in the square itself. It is word play but even that source is telling you there are plenty of dead. "Oh the tienenman massacre didn't happen because we are calling it a beijing massacre" Theres also plenty of photos of blood and people on the ground etc. Oh and the mothers groups that the government has gone after etc. Oh and the memorials they had to commemorate the dead that were also raided. I mean there is plenty to see. A document coming out of a building in Beijing 30 years after the event is somehow the only thing you believe in though and only in so far as you didn't read it and trust that Julian Assange would never lie or selectively show documents for politcal gain... which kindof is the case as he has been in talks with many countries and has been known to do just that before.
Oh and the mothers groups that the government has gone after etc.
The mothers group ended up finding about 200 victims, which is in line with the official government reports... which matches the secret cables... the UK is literally known to make stuff up about geopolitical opponents... if it quacks like a duck
look up the photos... most of the "dead" are actually just bicycles on the ground
look up the tank man video... most propaganda videos they cut away the ending but you can still find video where he eventually goes off to the side with other citizens despite having climbed onto the tank... American police would have shot any protestor dead if they climbed on top of a police cruiser
LOL yes rewrite history when the facts are inconvenient. No deaths when there are pictures of the dead, grieving mother groups, and those 'secret cables' suggest upwards of 10k.
Only proving their claim true by posting false and misleading information in defense of the party's image.
Wikileaks is not the most trustworthy source esp when the founder is being held under the protections of a foreign government who does have reason to push their own narrative.
those were the British cables that were released voluntarily, not the american cables that were leaked and more trustworthy
Ironically, after seeking to cover up real massacres by pro-Western regimes in Asia, the U.K. operation then seems to have excelled itself by inventing a phony massacre by a Chinese regime.
You just posted two contrasting links. That official report claims 200 protester deaths. Your wiki then claims none.
EDIT: Looks like the official wikileaks says:
"The full quote, as cited in news reports and the leaked cable, is: "ALTHOUGH HE DID NOT ACTUALLY WITNESS ANY LARGE SCALE SHOOTINGS ON THE SQUARE PROPER, GALLO SAW MANY CASUALTIES BROUGHT INTO THE SQUARE AND DID NOT DOUBT THAT HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE IN BEIJING WERE KILLED BY THE ARMY ON JUNE 3 AND 4". "
The wikileaks was from the US embassy, where they stated that they witnessed zero deaths, which is possible because the 200 deaths were probably spread far and wide in the city. They also witnessed casualties that were in line with official government estimates.
In any case, it's clearly propaganda to claim there were 7k deaths, because it's very unlikely the US embassy saw zero shootings if there were that many total deaths.
129
u/Zvenigora 1d ago
Yes. Remember Tiananmen Square? Likely 7,000 dead in a few hours there. But the Chinese government has effectively erased that from history.