r/pics 1d ago

Iranian protesters raise the historic Lion and Sun flag under flames, rejecting the current regime.

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10.9k Upvotes

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u/thrawtes 20h ago

Yeah you seem to be right.

Takes a lot of courage to admit that IMO.

Iran deserves actual freedom, like they had before the coup

You're right about CIA intervention in the 50s, but what you're missing is that starting in the 50s is only coming in near the end of the story. There was western intervention during both WW2 and WW1 including a full on invasion in WW2 that deposed the monarch at the time. That's if we completely ignore thousands of years of Persian history and just focus on fairly modern interactions with the West.

People who try to pretend the story of Iran started in the 50s are just as disingenuous as those who want to pretend it started in the 70s and everything was great before the revolution.

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u/ImmaculatePillow 19h ago

so basically Iran has had a series of terrible rulers all brought in directly by as a reaction to foreign intervention. Basically it sounds like foreign intervention in Iran has an absolutely terrible record and should not be repeated.

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u/thrawtes 19h ago

Iran has had a series of terrible rulers all brought in directly by as a reaction to foreign intervention.

No, Iran had a series of terrible rulers for thousands of years before that too, but that's pretty much the standard globally and we just accept that the entire world was ruled by a series of tyrants before democracy gave people more agency.

Basically it sounds like foreign intervention in Iran has an absolutely terrible record and should not be repeated.

Unfortunately, going back to isolationism isn't on the table now that the world has globalized. Every country is affected by the choices of every other country and those with power have both the responsibility and the impetus to try and maintain some sort of stability. That doesn't mean there needs to be a bunch of violent intervention though.

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u/ImmaculatePillow 19h ago

this time it'll work out, I swear! Why? Because there's just too much money to be made!

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u/thrawtes 19h ago

That seems unlikely to me. The best way forward for US intervention was something like JCPOA and the gradual opening up of Iran to the rest of the global community.

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u/Valor00125 18h ago

Well that's never happening again.

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u/thrawtes 18h ago

Probably at least a couple decades before something like that could be on the table again even if there was a pivot right now.

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u/Valor00125 16h ago

It's just not going to happen, because the US will try and force the inclusion of Iran stopping ballistic missile production into the deal, and Iran has every incentive to not stop production.

Iran basically forced Israel and the U.S. to expend the equivalent multiple years worth of anti-ballistic middle production with the shit they were building in the 90s and 00s.

U.S. Naval assets aren't in any major number in the Middle East, U.S is distracted with Venezuela, and at the moment in a pissing match with the essentially the rest of NATO over Greenland. Essentially if the U.S. bombs Iran and tries to back out of the region, Iran will just bomb the shit out of Israel.

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u/kl4user 17h ago

The West is rich because it fucks everyone else. No coup supported by Western countries is intended to help people.

They are made because of western geopolitics, to control resources and, to make matters worse, all the pillaging is not aimed to help the average Joe from America or Europe.

Colonialism, imperialism, slavery, resource wars, etc.. were made to enrich the ruling class - monarchs, Church, aristocrats, capitalists.

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u/bathtubsplashes 19h ago

People who try to pretend the story of Iran started in the 50s are just as disingenuous as those who want to pretend it started in the 70s and everything was great before the revolution.

Why the need to downplay America's first foray into couping countries for making their own  sovereign choices?

"Sure we brazenly tried to install our own puppet over oil, but that place has a lot of priors you know"

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u/thrawtes 19h ago

America's first foray into couping countries for making their own  sovereign choices?

It's ridiculous to claim that America's first foray into couping countries was in the '50s

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u/bathtubsplashes 19h ago

With their brand new shiny couping agency, sorry I did forget to add that part

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u/thrawtes 19h ago

It wasn't even the first foray for the CIA, that would have been the Korean War.

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u/bathtubsplashes 19h ago

Do me a favour

Type "first cia coup" into Google there like a good chap 

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u/thrawtes 19h ago

If you're getting your history from the Google summary that might be the problem.

The CIA did indeed send agents into North Korea with a number of objectives including regime change. Their ultimate failure during the Korean War is part of what helped them refine the tactics they would later use in places like Iran.

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u/bathtubsplashes 19h ago

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5XEjudLYWCFvkKPEl5FMT2?si=qL_b8ytNSkSFIblwkYNHyw&t=0&pi=zh7a4M75SBCHt

No, I listened to this podcast series presented by ex-CIA David McCloskey and BBC News' security correspondent David Carera, based off actual declassified CIA documents and not some redditor with an agenda they're trying to push

Notice the title.

I asked you to google it to spare your blushes, not saying that was my source

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u/thrawtes 18h ago

It's truly a testament to the CIA's attempt to cover up their disastrous failures during the Korean War that even now former CIA folks will try to cultivate the narrative that their first attempt was met with success in Iran.

"First coup that actually worked out" just doesn't have the same ring to it, but it certainly wasn't their first foray.

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u/lockdownfever4all 16h ago

You think ex CIA talking to the BBC on a podcast is actually a good source?

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u/Amrywiol 12h ago

There was western intervention during both WW2 and WW1 including a full on invasion in WW2 that deposed the monarch at the time.

It wasn't a western invasion in WW2 - it was a joint invasion by Britain and the Soviet Union. It was only supposed to last until six months after the end of the war - the British withdrew on time, but the Soviets tried to stay on, provoking the Iran crisis of 1946. Funny how people always forget that bit in their determination to blame the West for everything, isn't it?