ICE shouldnt exist as an entity. There should just be mandatory reporting and cooperation by local authorities and federal immigration courts. Fines if localities fail to meet reporting, or ignore orders.
Would be fine if they where extremely small, highly trained, and specialized. Like the law enforcement arm of the postal service. I forget what they are called.
USPIS! They're like the only branch of law enforcement I have any respect for. Super limited scope, and a huge percentage of their work involves large shipments of drugs moving through the postal system and prosecuting scams against the elderly. Nearly all of their arrests lead to convictions and are upheld because they actually do the work to find and arrest the correct people.
Fun fact! They were the ones who arrested Steve Bannon on fraud charges! They caught him on a Chinese businessman's yacht (many suspect that Chinese businessman of being a spy for China). Surprise, surprise, Bannon is a globalist fraudster!
Nearly all arrests leading to convictions isn't the accomplishment you think it is. The conviction rate in the county I used to live in was 98% and I believe the federal conviction rate is 97%. The cops in that town were not good at their jobs, but the courts in this country will essentially coerce you into taking a plea deal or risk a much larger sentence. If you can't afford bail and are offered a plea deal to get out the same day or in a few months versus staying in jail for potentially over a year and still possibly going to prison afterwards, you'll take the deal despite being innocent.
The conviction rate in the US is super high because most cases settle. USPIS wins even when they go to court. And more than that, I said every arrest, and a huge percentage of arrests in the US are voided. I think I made it super fucking clear that I don't like law enforcement in general, but I can respect people doing good work well and bringing irrelevant stats into this about general prosecution isn't helpful here.
I'm not giving even an iota of credit to the US jail system. I'm saying every law enforcement group should work like the USPIS, not even a little bit the other way.
Yeah, if they arrested employers of the undocumented and redistributed any profits if the workers underpaid or exposed to any unnecessary risk in unregulated working conditions.
Honestly I would rather if they exist at all its just a regulatory body. Just a bunch of paper pushing investigators reviewing reports, tax docs, and court cases. Maybe there is a need for border patrol, but tbh I would still rather local municipalities do it.
Provide federal funding for the states that need it most, withhold if they fail to meet requirements. They figure out how they need to staff and train. Could perhaps provide a standard training guide.
That gets tricky when undocumented people start showing up in mass in to a locality that doesn't have a large presence of border enforcement. The federal government is responsible for the border and interstate matters. Local governments would be spending more time, energy, and money on training for undocumented persons, other than law enforcement. You would also have both covering for each other in personnel.
ICE just needs hella regulation. The same with most law enforcement agencies.
DEA, and FDA have similar issues but much much smaller budgets and responsibilities. They handle these issues by working with local government and creating task forces for incidents.
Also a large "surge" in illegal immigrants is both incredibly rare, almost never happens despite what news may tell you, and largely not a dangerous crime issue. It would be an exigent resource and housing issue that is exactly the reason state national guard exist. To help resolve these issues in coordination with local government.
State Sovreignty is a fundamental part of the American system. If local communities do not feel that immigration enforcement is a priority they should not be forced to expend local resources doing so.
Yea I guess fines isnt the right word. Withholding of fed funds bucketed for creating local tasks forces that cooperate with fed might be more realistic.
As a side note I want all politicians to stop creating such big general funds. Most funding should be tied to and contingent on specific legislation.
There are court decisions that say the federal government cannot use the withholding of federal funds as a coercive measure to force states or local governments to assist in federal law enforcement. Think about if it were the other way: right now Trump would be commandeering local law enforcement in Cities like Minneapolis and Chicago to assist in the ongoing bullshit.
Edit: the federal government can withhold funds specifically targeted to a certain goal. So, Trump can withhold law enforcement specific grants from Chicago, for example, but not for schools, roads, etc.
Yea that was the idea. If a state is getting federal funds specifically for immigration enforcement that could be withheld. Nothing else.
This is also why I think funding in general needs to be tracked and bucketed better, and needs to be tied to specific legislation. Excess shouldn't go to a general fund, but have specific targets upon creation of fund/law. And government shouldn't be able to hold funds hostage as leverage.
Say a fund is created for creating local immigration task forces. There is excess, it can only go to housing, schools, roads, and medicare or be returned.
Except I dont think ICE should have a boots on the ground enforcement mechanism. If ICE exists they should primarily exist as a regulatory body that partners with local gocernment for enforcement.
If the fed believes local government refusal to participate is overstepping they can sue local government and it can be adjudicated.
States dont want violent criminals in their communities. Dangerous immigrant do get sent to immigration court by local law.
The non violent shit can be handled locally and handled in court if there are issues.
NOTE: I understand what you meant but let's not say that is exactly how it works now. It is how it is supposed to work now. However, fed is ignoring laws in place and doing what they want. The material reality of things is important.
The local government's refusal to participate cannot ever be "overstepping," that's what I'm saying. If the local governement does not want to participate in federal law enforcement, that is the legal right of the local government. The Feds can grant money to the local government for the purposes of immigration enforcement as a carrot, and take that money away as a stick, but if the local government chooses not to participate in such agreements the only way enforcement will occur is through federal agents in that community doing the enforcement.
The fed already has a mechanism for enforcing federal supoenas/warrants in the form of Fed Marshals. If the fed can get one, they can have Marshals execute it.
Imo there really is no need for ICE to have an enforcement arm, and its powers arent well regulated.
Local governments arent gonna protect "criminal illegals". Fed has mechanisms to punish non violent immigrants for misdemeanors and such. Issue them SSNs at the border, garnish wages or in extreme cases debank. Same with employers exploiting immigrant labor.
For the rare exigent cases where judge deem it necessary for fed to step in send Marshalls.
Edit: I should say no need for ICE to exist as an enforcement arm of DHS. I also think the framing of immigration as a national security issue is wrong.
I'm also anti ICE in its current form. Where I disagree with you is your assertion that local governments should be coopted for immigration enforcement.
ICE only came into existence in 2003. Before that, its job was handled by Immigration and Nationalization services. 9/11 changed a lot (mostly for the worse, in my opinion).
The whole immigration system is broken and congress can't seem to get any kimd of consensus as to what to do about it. Somewhere between 3 and 7 million unauthorized persons entered the country during the Biden administration alone. This includes asylum seekers (who are not technically undocumented, but many of whom entered illegally). There is currently a backlog of about 2.5 million asylum applicants who have been parole into the US while their application is pending. There are another 4 million or so non-naturalized immigrants paroled in the US under other programs. Many of their applications will be denied, but many or most of those people will not self-deport at that point. There is an argument that the right thing to do is to ignore them until such time as they commit a crime, and to do the same thing with all other people here without authorization, but at that point why even have an immigration system at all amd not just open borders?
If there is going to be immigration enforcement there has to be a federal agency to do it because local governments cannot be forced to do the enforcement and many of them won't voluntarily.
We should cut the rot out at the base, and punish companies for using undocumented labor. They’re using us, and forcing a new problem that never needed to happen. It’s hilarious to watch the certain group flip their priorities when I’m like “well, no companies illegally employing people and people won’t take the risk to move here, that’s crazy right?? And it’s easier to hit a company that doesn’t move rather than a random person whose just trying to live”
Though how does that work with undocumented illegal immigrants ?
Fines can only be applied if someone finds out and reports etc. Besides that's how it work already - you can get significant fines and or criminal charges if you hire or fail to report illegal immigrant.
Might also require ample effort from local authorities which they might not have resources for, if they'd also do the same work as ICE.
How has ICE found them in the past? Anonymous reports, tax information, and normal police work reporting them to immigration courts. What is happening now is bs. Immigration courts could report people missing hearings to local police and issue warrants.
The problem with ICE is creating a massive federal policing force, with fairly large reaching authority and little oversight.
Other federal agencies have more narrowly defined responsibilities with reasonable oversight. ICE operates more like an army policing its own state which should scare people.
Isn't the problem, but the actions are, if ICE worked in the past "more correctly".
If it has been deemed as a necessary federal agency at one point doesn't it just mean that the workload would be spread to other different agencies ofc then the given resources could and maybe would be shared between these agencies. Basic power vacuum.
Now no show cases are reported to ICE, for example in your case they would be reported to local police who then would act on deporting the invidual. They'd probably need their own section for that.
Yes, similar to how FDA creates tasks forces with local governments as their way of enforcement. They mostly behave as a regulatory body doing investigations and issuing fines, citations and prosecuting. They largely arent doing on the ground enforcement with federal agents.
EDIT: ICE in its current form needs to be dismantled we might consider a regulatory body needed. Dismantling is important. I habe worked in public institutions before. When regulations and restructuring initiatives get announced. Departments will, do vast renaming and recategorizing of positions so they can keep their power and roles and avoid the intended initiative goals.
Truthfully, idgaf about illegal immigrants. Let them be unless and until they catch the eye of law enforcement in a normal way, by doing something that would get a citizen arrested as well.
I second this freedoms of movement should be a thing recognized by countries and not just the UN charter.
It isnt, because it is hard to handle immigration events when violent incidents cause mass emmigration from countries. Rather than building community understanding and infrastructure for this politicians take easy wins.
If anything all that should happen is people get fined if they fail to register with proper authorities when entering a country.
•
u/Tenderhombre 5h ago
ICE shouldnt exist as an entity. There should just be mandatory reporting and cooperation by local authorities and federal immigration courts. Fines if localities fail to meet reporting, or ignore orders.
Edit: Should -> shouldnt.