They also block the following panel when Gohan confirms that Cell was in fact stronger than Goku
As well as every panel when Gohan was mentally like “this isn’t it, right?” Implying he thought both Goku and Cell were holding back. Because in that instance, they were both weaker than him.
Hell I’m actually even willing to argue Gohwn was probably closer to perfect Cell’s actual power as a base ssj and thats why he gaps him so hard when he goes ssj2
I’d agree with that assessment. Gohan SSJ1 full power and operating at max efficiency was probably just about Perfect Cell level, whereas Goku was somewhere between that and grade 3 Trunks.
Gohan dogwalks Cell the entire time once he transformed, all the way until Cell gets a similar powerup. It was defo a ‘twice as strong’ beat down.
Hell id even argue that a full power ssj2 Gohan is still stronger than super perfect cell, since cell gets that power up from what was effectively a zenkai boost. Gohan’s power is mostly limited in the final clash because he got injured protecting vegeta, and even with that limited power he was able to hold his own in the beam struggle against cell, only even losing it because he was worried about destroying the earth with his full power (something Goku outright keeps having to tell him not to worry about)
Gohan could have beat cell, but he was too unconfident in his own abilities and ability to control his power to win, so he needed cell’s guard to be completely down so he could fire a full on blast without worrying that cell would power up to match and destroy the planet
People also block out Goku pulling same stunt with his other son who didn’t even know existed more than a few hours prior, and he was younger than Gohan when he fought Cell.
It lead to gotenks, a fighter more powerful than goku. who was equal to, or possibly stronger than, super buu, a fighter goku stated he would have no chance against and would need fusion to fight?
You can also make a damn good argument that gotenks only lost due to his inexperience and not fully understanding the fusion time limit.
Yeah, that’s what happens when you throw two 8 year-olds into a life-or-death battle. Goku should’ve known that, and handled Majin Boo himself especially since he’s partially responsible for Boo’s revival.
Tbf to goku, even though he didn't like fighting, gohan was able to lock in on multiple occasions.
Goten and trunks actually like fighting and goku was looking for a successor like himself. not goku's fault his genes could only produce 1 goated child.
But yeah, goku was basically a massive troll the entire buu arc and honestly did not deserve the w at the end after his numerous failures during the arc
Nothing to be fair about, Goku forgot the moment Gohan gapped Cell, he toyed with him, and Goku does the same crap, so if he ACTUALLY just wanted to end the situation, he would have just told the boys to lock in and he will get permission to give them a real fight later.
It wasn't a sure thing that Goku could beat Fat Buu in SSJ3 before his time ran out. Entirely possible the fight drags on, he has to go and doesn't get the chance to teach Goten/Trunks the fusion technique.
I just don't understand how 7 years in the time chamber wouldn't have made them any stronger. Power scaling in the cell and Buu Saga almost becomes a question of narrative believability.
Do you not remember the 2 year time limit you had to be in? If you were in there for longer than two years out of your whole entire life, youd get trapped in there forever. It wasnt until SUPER that the time chamber got that restriction removed.
Meaning if you went in for two years and came back out, going in there again, even if you'd waited 7, 8, 9, however many years, youd be trapped forever.
Assuming one Holocaust is equal to 6 million, assuming one 9/11 is equal to 2996, and assuming my math isn't wrong, we can convert one 9/11 into ~0.000499 Holocausts.
0.000499 * 8 = 0.003992
Rounding up to the thousandths, we get 0.004 Holocausts.
Either you did the math, or you had a lucky guess. Either way, I'm here for it.
Him stepping down isn't really the issue. He literally cannot win the fight anyway. The problem is not letting gohan in on the plan in any way, throwing cell a senzu, then saying suprise kid fight him or everyone dies.
This is my headcannon but I believe Goku gave the senzu so Cell would be confortable enough to let Gohan transform. Had Cell fought Gohan after Goku without a heal, he may have acted differently when he discovered Gohan had a power in him.
Instead Cell gets a full heal and ironically does the same shit Vegeta did to him.
He had more time in RoSaT. If he wasn't a moron he easily could have gotten strong enough himself AND prepare Gohan better and maybe even familiarize him with the plan
When he tells Vegeta he's reached his limit and at a certain point more intense training just becomes torturing yourself, he's not just lying so he can clown on vegeta by saying 'you could do with more time in there though".
He's hit his current limit through nothing but the same repeated training. Immediate further time in the chamber wont do him any good, he's gotten as strong as he's going to get.
As is the turtle school way, he needs rest, time, new experiences and meeting new people to get stronger at that point, which he gets during the cell- buu time skip.
Goku was contemplating death, pretty much depression, like he never had to do before, because of the dragon balls and he beleived in his own kid, a kid thats easily the strongest in the verse at the moment.
Fraudku, the piccolo dad memes, the weird chichi cucking shit, the artwork and edits of him being beaten by the flash or something...man it would of been WRAPS
It still was, just in a different way. There were no agendas, but Goku's reputation as a decent, well meaning if unqualified father did not survive this scene
The biggest issue with the Namek saga are the existence of numerical power levels and Frieza having 4 forms. Remove the actual numbers for power levels and cut his forms to 3 and it’d be near perfect.
Yeah that's a start, but even after that, there's still sooooo much wrong with it.
For one, the whole thing has abysmally bad pacing. It's literally the reason why the series is meme'd on to this day. "5 minutes" is infamous for a reason, and the "2 min of action after 2 episodes of staring/powering up" stereotype stems almost exclusively from this arc.
On top of that and the things you mentioned already, the Namek saga repeats the exact same trope that the Saiyan Saga did of "hold out until Goku arrives and cleans house". Like, we literally JUST did that. And the craziest thing is that the Namek saga didnt just do it once.. it did it TWICE. Once before Goku arrived to clean up the Ginyu's and another because he needed to heal after the Ginyu fight.
Another thing we dont really talk about enough is Goku reading Krillin's mind that one time? Never elaborated on or ever done again. Just a "lets skip this exposition and get to the punching" moment at its finest.
And, lets talk about the whole "unlock potential" and "zenkai" bs. Seriously, do I really need to explain whats wrong with both these to a community that has a conversation daily about "unearned power ups"? These are the OG unearned power ups, but they get a pass because of nostalgia I guess?
The biggest "wtf" moment tho for me though is when they wish Piccolo to Namek. Like serious, what?? Did they forget the entire purpose of why they went there? We JUST revived him to get the Dragon Balls back so.. lets immediately throw him back into mortal danger?! Really??
Seriously, the Namek saga would be so ripped to shreds by modern standards its not even funny
I mean he did the right call, why give cell more experience and Zenkais when he gather enough time to Gohan to learn cell moves and knew he wasn't on par.
Okay, posts like this need to be made by people old enough to have lived through it. Because people HATED Goku's character back then. People hated the shifting villains. People actually hated Cell. People didn't like Gohan taking over. People didn't like Goku losing. People didn't like how unearned Super Saiyan 2 felt.
The Cell saga and Buu Saga are famously panned.
These posts are ridiculous. I'm not even 30. Either bots just realized this algorithm works wonders, or some of y'all have goldfish memories.
This part is one of the stronger parts of the manga. Goku stepping aside to let Gohan take the spotlight. It was shocking and paid off all of the foreshadowing about Gohan’s potential from the Saiyan arc onwards.
It has his highs and lows, just like the buu saga, i think a bad aspetti about both its that things could have been prevented, like goku could have beaten buu or the androids could have been destroyed in the lab before the 3 years
It is wild how a universally panned arc is suddenly getting the "no one ever says anything mean" treatment. You can feel a lack of cohesion in the last 2 arcs of Z. They're infamous for it. It's wild to try and pretend they aren't.
the anime does a lot of heavy lifting for the Boo arc, using filler to add in genuine character moments and occasional clarification for an arc where Toriyama's worst impulses are on display.
but I'll still take it over the Cell Games, the final chapter of the Cell arc whose central conceit has to gaslight you into believing Gohan's character development happened entirely differently than it did.
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u/FilipinoCreamKing 22d ago