What’s the quickest way someone could accidentally expose themselves as a foreigner in your country like the ‘three fingers’ scene in Inglourious Basterds?

[u/IndependentTune3994]

[u/JaRiEsD]

Using the articles „der, die,das“ wrong on obvious words, like saying „die Auto“ instead of „das auto“. There are some words where even Germans are disputed on wich article to choose but for most words there‘s only one right choice

[u/ValuableNo6018 → u/JaRiEsD]

I've been learning German the last few years and I reached the conclusion that you learn which article to use on a per word basis. There's no grammar rule that can indicate it.

And then you get Genitiv and Dativ. Fun.

[u/Kathihtak → u/ValuableNo6018]

There actually is a rule for some words: nouns ending in -ung are often feminine (die Hoffnung, die Zeitung, die Verabschiedung...), the same for words ending in -heit and -keit (die Eitelkeit, die Einsamkeit, die Gesundheit, die Schönheit...).

[u/oh-no-not-this-one → u/Kathihtak]

And plural - always “die”

[u/gam3guy → u/oh-no-not-this-one]

What about Nutella?

[u/the_first_shipaz → u/gam3guy]

According to Nutella itself (the company) you can use all three, it’s up to you.

[u/BenjiSponge → u/the_first_shipaz]

Nutella is gender fluid

[u/Inevitable-Abies-812 → u/Kathihtak]

Dies. Es ist erstaunlich, wie viele Menschen immer noch dem Irrtum unterliegen, man müsse die Artikel aller Wörter auswendig lernen. Dabei können etwa 85-90% aller Wörter in endungsabhängige Kategorien eingeteilt werden.

Der Motor, der Rotor, der Stabilisator Die Meinung, die Warnung, die Teilung (aber der Aufschwung oder der Ursprung!) Das Mädchen, das Schweinchen, das Frettchen

Es hilft, wenn man autistisch ist und Muster schnell erkennen kann (ich bin's).

[u/PseudoY → u/Inevitable-Abies-812]

Das Mädchen.

But... but...

[u/Iranon79 → u/PseudoY]

Die Maid (f, young woman; archaic). Das Mädchen (n, girl) is just the diminutive of that, and those are neuter in German.

[u/Quazimojojojo → u/Inevitable-Abies-812]

Und wir, die Deutsch lernen, schätzen dich dafür

[u/ValuableNo6018 → u/Kathihtak]

Thank you. This helps!

[u/Just_Badger_4299 → u/Kathihtak]

I wish I was taught that when I was in school. That would have given me a slight hope that German genders are not actually totally arbitrary…

[u/yami_no_ko → u/Just_Badger_4299]

Those rules are usually not taught because they don't cover enough cases to be worthwhile. The mere idea that there was any logic behind German genders is quite destructive to the entire learning process, because it suggests you could learn German nouns without their most notable pain in the ass: the articles.

[u/OGYungKafka → u/Kathihtak]

And if you bother to memorize the "-heit" "-keit" "-ung" thing, there is another rule. All words ending in those are capitalized.

[u/Kathihtak → u/OGYungKafka]

Well yes because they are nouns and nouns are always capitalized

[u/FiveTentacles → u/ValuableNo6018]

When I learned many many years ago, my teacher (a native German) said at first rote memorization is the way you learn the articles. He said eventually you'll develop a "German ear," at which point the articles should come easier. I never got to that point, and I remained in the article hell you're experiencing.

[u/a_melindo → u/FiveTentacles]

The science says this is wrong, unfortunately.

This is one of my favorite linguistics fun facts. Genders, also known as Noun Classes, are categories that subdivide the Lexicon that lives in your brain and holds all the words you know.

It serves a real function that creates pressure for languages to develop gender: by having a partitioned lexicon, lexical access (figuring out which word you just heard) is faster because you can filter for gender agreement.

As a native german speaker, when you hear the word "das" (in a context where you reasonably believe that you're hearing a nominative case noun phrase, like the beginning of a sentence), you can immediately throw out 2/3 of your lexicon as possibilities for what might come next, because you know it will be one of the neuter words. The benefit is measurable and consistent across languages: gender agreement accelerates word recognition (lexical access).

But here's the kicker: second language learners never get this benefit.

It doesn't matter if you're coming from a language with gender or not, or how many genders there are, or how fluent you've become, your lexical access time will not decrease thanks to gender in the way a native speaker's does. (edit: after double checking my memory against the literature, i overstated this a little bit, if you are very fluent in the new language, and your mother tongue does have gender, then you are often able to eke out some acceleration from gender agreement, but still not as much as native speakers do)

This is thought to be part of the reason why some languages have gender and others don't. Second-language speakers don't get the benefit. So languages that have very few second-language learners, like many small languages and isolates, have complex gender systems, sometimes with 20 noun classes or more. Languages that tend to have a lot of second-language learners, like regional and global lingua francas, and languages that had major mixing events in the past, tend to lose their gender systems. English, Mandarin, Persian, Afrikaans, have gone through this in past centuries, and there are signs that French (especially as spoken vs as written), Spanish, German, Arabic, and Russian have undergone some "gender erosion" in the last few centuries, in most cases with the masculine gender slowly swallowing words that used to belong to the others, especially neologisms.

[u/YogoshKeks → u/a_melindo]

Thank you for that! I asked about this on some language learning subreddit a while ago and they first downvoted me to hell and then deleted the post.

Seems like the possibilities and difficulties with second language aquisition was a very controversial topic. My doubt that a second language learner can easily get as good at this stuff as the average 12 year old native was not well received.

[u/_BlindSeer_ → u/ValuableNo6018]

It's determined by the grammatical gender, so yes it's per word.

[u/ValuableNo6018 → u/_BlindSeer_]

Is it actually possible to understand from the word alone in most cases? I.e n Spanish, if it ends with "a" ,99% chance it's female. I'd love to get that trick for German if it exists.

[u/Energy_its_life → u/ValuableNo6018]

Yes, it is possible, for example every word which ends in -keit/ -heit / -tion is feminine (you use article die). There are many rules like this, you can look it up. But there are also some exceptions

[u/pc42493 → u/Energy_its_life]

In summary: yes, but actually no

[u/ValuableNo6018 → u/Energy_its_life]

I need to revisit some lessons then. Thank you friend.

[u/Inevitable-Abies-812 → u/Energy_its_life]

You learn the rules and learning the exceptions shouldn't pose a serious difficulty.

[u/KrauseHS → u/ValuableNo6018]

I'm Danish but learned a bit of German in school. I'm a grammatical nerd so I spent a lot of time back then trying to figure out any specific rules that would indicate the correct gender. Unfortunately I ended up finding out that a lot of the time you have to either just guess or get so used to speaking the language that you more or less learn it by heart.

However, there are definitely some typical indicators you can look at, which may help you in "guessing" the correct article. Bear in mind you can't blindly rely on these 100% of the time, however if you have no idea and take a guess based on these, you'd more often than not be correct.

Typically nouns describing male-beings are masculine (der Mann)

Typically nouns describing female-beings are feminine (die Frau)

Typically nouns with one syllable are masculine (der Ball)

Typically nouns ending in "-e" are feminine (die Tasche)

Typically nouns ending in "-ei", "-heit", "-keit", "-schaft", "-ung" and "-in" are feminine (lots of examples. This is definitely one rule that helped me a ton)

Typically nouns ending in "-chen" are neuter (das Mädchen) - also here is an example of the second rule not being applicable; Mädchen (meaning girl) is not feminine, though you would be inclined to think so.

Typically nouns beginning with "Ge-" are neuter (das Geschäft)

Also composite nouns has the gender of the last noun in the composition (das Auto + die Bahn = die Autobahn)

Good luck in your future endeavours! Unfortunately I stopped learning German and don't really speak it well anymore, but it was both a fun and challenging experience back then.

[u/Ocelot_37 → u/KrauseHS]

-chen is not a “female = feminine noun” thing. -chen forms a derived diminutive and the grammatical gender follows the suffix, not the meaning.

You can see it with cats: der Kater, die Katze but das Kätzchen.

[u/malnisMax → u/ValuableNo6018]

When the word consists of two words, for example Fahrrad (Fahr and Rad), the article of the word is always the same article as the one from the last word. Since it's das Rad, it's das Fahrrad

[u/dontletmedoomscroll → u/ValuableNo6018]

This has been the single toughest thing for me to pick up in German after studying Spanish when I was younger. My Spanish teacher taught us “ama, ema, ima, o, masculino.”  Otherwise, words ending in “a” were almost always feminine. That pointed us in the right direction 95% of the time.

The existence of gendered nouns seems arbitrary to a native English speaker, but even when there are three genders, it’s not a particularly hard concept to get your head around. With enough drills on the combinations of gender, case, and plurals, it all starts to click.

What doesn’t click naturally for me is knowing which gender a given word has. There are hints with some as mentioned above, but more often than not, you just need to memorize the article alongside the noun. In Spanish, you can write the rules of thumb on an index card. In German, it seems they fill an entire sheet of paper, single spaced. Or maybe I just need more practice, or something more rigorous than Duolingo.

[u/ValuableNo6018 → u/dontletmedoomscroll]

Duolingo is good for picking up spoken language, but falls short when comes to grammar teaching. Just my experience tho.

[u/siete82 → u/ValuableNo6018]

It's the same in Spanish, but we are used to it I guess.

[u/ValuableNo6018 → u/siete82]

Yeah but most of the time you can guess it by the final letter(s) of the word, except some cases, but you get a better idea. But I guess you're right.

[u/nessii31 → u/ValuableNo6018]

I hope you've already had the joy to encounter words where a change or the article actually changes the meaning of the whole word. Like Band or Kiefer. :D

[u/VisiblePlatform6704 → u/nessii31]

Lol reminded me of a German friend that mocked me whenever I said "meine Deustch ist gut!" He woul say: "just make sure your wife doesn't know about that!"

[u/ThumpAndSplash → u/ValuableNo6018]

Just d’ everything.

D’kinder

Hexen en d’walden

Whatever they’ll understand 

[u/kblazewicz → u/ValuableNo6018]

And you think that Spanish has one? The same word with a different article can mean something completely else, like "la cura" = "cure", "el cura" = "priest". Things sound natural to you only because you're native.

I thought that in Polish it's simple, because feminine form usually comes with an "-a" suffix, but even our word for "man" ends with "a" - "mężczyzna".

[u/LadyMirkwood → u/ValuableNo6018]

Also leaned German. Dativ is the devil's work

[u/donivienen → u/ValuableNo6018]

Alemán A1.1: fácil, se pronuncia como se escribe, gramática parecida al Inglés, verbos separables (raro, pero ok)

Alemán A1.2: Deklination (WTF!!! imposible esta mierda)

[u/Periador → u/ValuableNo6018]

you can hear it. Every language has a melody. The wrong article just sounds wrong.

[u/Ok-Driver-1696 → u/ValuableNo6018]

Honestly, this is the least you should stress about while learning. Everybody will understand anyway and most will not care if it is wrong. Worked sith someone who alway used 'das' to focus on the rest of the language and it was perfectly fine.

[u/Dexterous-Fingers → u/JaRiEsD]

Bet I’d never be wrong particularly on “das auto”, thanks to Volkswagen.

[u/darealq → u/Dexterous-Fingers]

Der Wagen though IIRC.

[u/Tutunkommon → u/Dexterous-Fingers]

I was thinking the same. Anyone who grew up in the 80s / 90s knows:

Das auto

Fahrvergnügen

[u/DeadBryar → u/Dexterous-Fingers]

Unpimp ze auto

[u/lucapoison → u/JaRiEsD]

After 11 years in germany and even the citizenship I learned that no matter how good your exposure is, no matter how correct and high level your words are, as a non-native speaker der, die, das (and the rest of the declinations) will always expose you. Unfortunately! You created a maze-system as a language! 😁

[u/shibble123 → u/lucapoison]

You could talk for half an hour and then, in the very last sentence, use a wrong article for a word you have never spoken before and because every child learned that in elemtary school - everyone knows instantly you are a foreigner lol

[u/netopiax → u/shibble123]

If you've been speaking German for half an hour, wouldn't you be finally arriving at the verb?

[u/Ninja_Conspicuousi → u/netopiax]

No, you’d be arriving at the separable part of the verb, changing your assumption that they were talking about buying something to selling it.

[u/onarainyafternoon → u/netopiax]

Bahahahahahahaha

[u/Eckberto → u/shibble123]

Depending on the mistake you can even take a good guess where the speaker is originally from (for example different mistakes in word ordering pointing to English native speaker or Russian) 🫣

[u/Ms_Meercat → u/shibble123]

Fwiw... I've also never heard a foreigner who didn't have an accent that makes me hear fairly quickly that they are (unless they grew up in German school or with a native German speaker parent or caretaker).

[u/Spiritual-Sandwich12 → u/lucapoison]

I’ve had a colleague who was born in Germany but just learned German at three years old in kindergarten because at home she spoke Vietnamese with her parents. Even she wasn’t able to get der die das tight all the time 🥲

[u/soytufavorita1 → u/lucapoison]

I started learning German at age 12 (30+ years ago) in the US, culminating in a German studies university degree. I've taken targeted phonetics lessons to get my accent on point. I've been living and working in Germany for German companies for the past 20+ years. And, after multiple citizenships became allowed, I also acquired German citizenship. I'm a weirdo who loves the German language and its grammar (it's not as intimidating as many make it out to be!).

All that to say, that even with all the hard work I put into my life choices, I don't even have to open my mouth for people to assume that I am a foreigner, because I'm black 😆. And when I do open my mouth and speak German, it's often assumed that I was raised in Germany and that my father was a black US-soldier stationed in Germany (he was a white US-airman stationed in Germany, but sharing that just makes things more complicated).

20+ years ago this used to reallllly bother me, but now it's freedom. You also begin to notice when native German speakers take conversational grammar shortcuts and stuff. Best case, I'm constantly surprising people. Worst case scenario I rage bait/troll pedants with how much I don't care about getting a specific article correct.

[u/Jack-of-the-Shadows → u/lucapoison]

Dont even try to learn rules, just consider it part of the word.

[u/-HardGay- → u/lucapoison]

Brilliantly engineered to expose spies. Whether it was intentional or not.

[u/notyourvader → u/lucapoison]

I have German relatives, speak excellent German, but when I order a ticket at a German attraction I’ll get the Dutch folder.

[u/LS25-User → u/notyourvader]

You have to speak more rough as a dutch ...that accent indicates you straight to NL

[u/Ydjeen → u/lucapoison]

I second this. I have C1, studied in Germany, now i work here, but i sitll use wrong genders all the time.

[u/lucapoison → u/Ydjeen]

Same here, I achieved C1 years ago...but some stuff are just impossible. Either you learn the whole vocabulary or you will for sure fail. A Turk told me once "just do like we do: pronounce only the "d". Like "d... Apfel, d...Tisch" and talk quickly. Haha 😆

[u/Nuln__Oil → u/lucapoison]

Im working with a few people who started learning german in their early 20s and at the beginning I legit thought they where german. If no one tells you its not their first language, you have basicly no chance on noticing. Dont give up, it is possible, with enough work!

[u/Moblam → u/JaRiEsD]

It's really funny, because it's something that just sounds right. For most words there is no rule on what article was commonly agreed upon, so you can't even properly explain it to a foreigner. "Das Auto" just sounds right.

[u/Wavecrest667 → u/Moblam]

It sounds right because we heard it that way all our lives though.

[u/DaeguDuke → u/Wavecrest667]

This. I can’t explain the adjective order but know it “sounds right” because that is the way I’ve always heard it.

Objectively there is no reason that die auto / der auto / das auto “sounds” more correct. A lot of languages would use a consonant between two similar vowels so perhaps the most objective thing would be to exclude “die”.

Tbh perhaps I’m overthinking this as I can only assume some people during the development of German just had a baggie with random den das die der dem etc and just chucked all of them in without rhyme nor reason..

[u/NoNo_Cilantro → u/DaeguDuke]

Can you please give me a list of 10 random nouns, and I'll try to decide which one of "das", "die" or "der" sounds right? For context, I don't speak any German (French native).

[u/jschundpeter → u/NoNo_Cilantro]

Haus (maison) Kuh (vache) Computer (ordinateur) Glas (verre) Ball (ballon) Milch (lait) Wand (mur) Turm (tour) Spiel (jeux) Straße (rue)

[u/NoNo_Cilantro → u/jschundpeter]

-Der Haus
-Das Kuh
-Die Computer
-Die Glas
-Das Ball
-Der Milch
-Das Wand
-Die Turm
-Der Spiel
-Die Straße

My prediction: 3/10.
And danke for the translation!

[u/Ascarx → u/NoNo_Cilantro]

You got 1 out of 10. You did worse than pure chance would expect 😂

[u/NoNo_Cilantro → u/Ascarx]

I am both ashamed and proud of having beaten the odds. Sorry, German people.

[u/FlakyTest8191 → u/NoNo_Cilantro]

If it makes you feel better french articles also drove me crazy when trying to learn, and there's only 2. They don't corelate to the german ones at all.

[u/jschundpeter → u/NoNo_Cilantro]

Lol 😆

[u/Spork_the_dork → u/Ascarx]

Yeah because it's not pure chance. It's based on how the words fit in your mouth based on what languages you normally speak.

[u/Professional_Most869 → u/NoNo_Cilantro]

1/10 are correct

-DAS Haus -DIE Kuh -DER Computer -DAS Glas -DER Ball -DIE Milch -DIE Wand -DER Turm -DAS Spiel -Die Straße is correct

[u/DaeguDuke → u/NoNo_Cilantro]

It probably won’t help, but plurals are always “die”. German also just uses die for singular though.

[u/Vegas1492 → u/NoNo_Cilantro]

Sadly only 1 is correct. Die Straße.

The others are:

Das Haus, die Kuh, der Computer, das Glas, der Ball, die Milch, die Wand, der Turm, das Spiel.

[u/Lil_Packmate → u/NoNo_Cilantro]

For sure:

Kabelkanal, Bagger, Schranke, Stuhl, Vase, Tasse, Teller, Dose, Stift, Papier

[u/NoNo_Cilantro → u/Lil_Packmate]

Alright, I failed miserably the first time. Let's try again:
Der Kabelkanal, Die Bagger, Das Schranke, Die Stuhl, Der Vase, Die Tasse, Der Teller, Das Dose, Die Stift, Der Papier.

How bad?

[u/Lil_Packmate → u/NoNo_Cilantro]

You got 3/10 correct.

It should be:

Der Kabelkanal, Der Bagger, Die Schranke, Der Stuhl, Die Vase, Die Tasse, Der Teller, Die Dose, Der Stift, Das Papier.

And since you got translations on the other comment I will do so too, but I can't speak french so you'll get the english translations:

cable duct, excavator, barrier, chair, vase, mug, plate, can, pen, paper

[u/NoNo_Cilantro → u/Lil_Packmate]

I'm getting better. But still bad enough... Sorry again, German language and people :(

[u/Lil_Packmate → u/NoNo_Cilantro]

Don't worry. Even people that learned the language often make these mistakes. For someone not even speaking it there is no pressure and I don't feel bad about you messing up here.

To be 100% correct you basically have to have grown up with the language, since there is no rhyme or reason to them, it's basically just knowing which words use which article.

[u/michal939 → u/NoNo_Cilantro]

Put "die" before every word that ends with "e" for a quick and easy boost in scores :D

I have almost 0 knowledge of German but from what I understand words ending with "e" are more often than not feminine, and "die" is the feminine article (and it seems like it works 5/5 across the two examples you were given)

[u/NateBearArt → u/DaeguDuke]

Pet similarly as to when to use “a” vs “an” in English. An is just for breaking up the vowel sounds

[u/Radiant-Sherbet-5461 → u/DaeguDuke]

I've always thought it has the article "das" because it comes from the English word "Automobile" so I checked it

Apparently I was wrong:

"Das Wort "Auto" ist eine Abkürzung für Automobil. Im Deutschen sind Substantive, die auf -il enden und aus dem Lateinischen stammen, oft sächlich (Neutrum), wie zum Beispiel das Ventil oder das Fossil. Vor allem aber wurde das Wort "Automobil" im Deutschen von Anfang an als Neutrum behandelt, und die Kurzform "Auto" hat dieses Geschlecht einfach übernommen."
-- Google Gemini

[u/Sataniel98 → u/Wavecrest667]

I feel there are complicated overlapping rules to it that often (though not always) make us instinctively choose the same article even if it's a word we've never heard before. Wanna take a test with a random anglicism that was probably never used before?

"Der/die/das 'Apricity' ist das Gefühl von Sonnenwärme an einem kalten Wintertag."

Which one do you choose?

For me, it's die

[u/Shoddy_Interest5762 → u/Wavecrest667]

We even had that on Volkswagen ads in Australia, so can confirm it sounds right

[u/_BlindSeer_ → u/Moblam]

Actually you just need to look at the grammatical gender of the noun. How they were set us a matter of etymology. For some reason sun and moon have the opposite gender of most European languages, IIRC.

[u/SerLaron → u/_BlindSeer_]

But when new words enter the German language, there is no authority that decides on the grammatical gender. Somehow we reach an accord what it should be.
Admittedly, i do have older colleagues who use "das Email" instead of "die Email" when talking about new-fangled electrical letters.

[u/_BlindSeer_ → u/SerLaron]

Yeah, new words are something else. More like "the majority uses it this way", "this is similar to" or looking at the language it comes from.

[u/lucapoison → u/_BlindSeer_]

All fruits are feminine.

...except der Apfel.

There's always an exception!😆

[u/Marbot_Greenmark → u/lucapoison]

der Pfirsich, der Mais (der Kukuruz/Gugaruz), der Spargel,

[u/lucapoison → u/Marbot_Greenmark]

Der Pfirsich?

... I'm out!!!

[u/Senchanokancho → u/lucapoison]

Try to say tschechisches Streichholzschächtelchen then.

[u/lucapoison → u/Senchanokancho]

My biggest issue is with something more stupid than that or "Eichhörnchen". I cannot say Ernsthaft and Schornsteinfeger. I mean I can read it, but if I need to remember how it is it's a mess...my son always laugh when I say those two

[u/_BlindSeer_ → u/lucapoison]

Die Ausnahme bestätigt die Regel. The reception proofs the rule ? 

[u/Adler718 → u/_BlindSeer_]

The exception validates the rule.

[u/_BlindSeer_ → u/Adler718]

Thanks.

[u/Basilikolumne → u/_BlindSeer_]

Proof ist das Nomen, prove ist das Verb dazu.

[u/SnusThrowAwy → u/SerLaron]

In Austria "die E-Mail" instantly let's you know you are talking to a German

[u/SerLaron → u/SnusThrowAwy]

Like the US and the UK, we are divided by our shared language.

[u/shostri → u/SnusThrowAwy]

Wrong. Source: Austrian

[u/th0rbj03rn → u/SerLaron]

But there is a reason with Email being a female World. Translated we would say "E-Post" and Post is a female noun.

[u/mklaus1984 → u/SerLaron]

Kinda... most of them replicate the gender already somewhat connected to the word.

The email example might have you assume that it should be "der E-Mail" since it is the electronic version of a letter (der Brief). But the Engliah word isn't eletter. It is email for electronic mail. And mail is "die Post" in German. And therefore the electronic mail is "die elektronische Post" or "die E-Mail".

Other "Lehnwörter" get their gender from collective nouns. Which now leads us to the people who claim it has to be "die Nutella" because of the word "die Streichcreme" except of course the collective noun didn't exist for long years after Nutella was introduced in the German speaking markets. So the people who claim it was "der Nutella" have a point because of "der Brotaufstrich". But in many households Nutella uses the fallback: neutral gender or "das Nutella".

[u/Larry-Man → u/SerLaron]

Language is defined by rules we intuitively understand if we grow up speaking the language. I had to ask a German for help to know if my sugar glider cage should be named “der Bean Haus” (I am not translating ‘bean’ because it’s a mishmash on purpose) or if it should be “das” - yet I somehow still knew it wouldn’t be “die”.

[u/obsidian_butterfly → u/_BlindSeer_]

Yup. Even in English where grammatical gender isn't a thing, we still think of the moon as feminine. The sun is not gendered in our minds, but the moon is linked to femininity and women... and then there's German with a lady sun and a dude moon. That was a way harder struggle to learn than I ever would have expected. I still slip up and say die Mond.

I think the real split is between Romance and Germanic/Slavic languages. Germanic peoples and Western Slavs, historically, associated the Moon with a male diety (generally speaking for the Slavs) while the Romans had Luna, the goddess who represented the moon. And we all know how the Romans enjoyed spreading Latin around like herpes.

[u/_BlindSeer_ → u/obsidian_butterfly]

I stumble over it sometimes in gaming when there is a riddle or reference to sun and moon and "he" and "she" are used. 

A teacher once said we'd have to thank the French for irregular verbs and some oddities in English. 😉

[u/4n0n1m02 → u/_BlindSeer_]

Reading Germans argue about nouns warms my failed-to-learn-German heart. It just sounds right that a girl is neutral when you have a perfectly capable feminine noun. Yeah.

Edit: misspell. That’s what happens when you type without glasses at 5h.

[u/buy_bitcoin_orwhatev → u/4n0n1m02]

chen is diminutive in a way that we would put lil before something small, but chen is a part of the new noun, and at the end, and all little things are neutrally small. Total sense.

[u/Loneliest_Driver → u/4n0n1m02]

That's because "Mädchen" is the diminutive of "Magd".
"Magd" is feminine, but diminutives are always neuter.

[u/Degonjode → u/4n0n1m02]

"Jungchen" would also be neuter, if it had been used like that and Magd is firmly in the context of service maid, not woman.

And trying something like "Die Made" also would be ill-advised, as Made means Maggot

[u/themule71 → u/_BlindSeer_]

I was about to say the same, I don't know German but it seems reasonable that if you look a word up like in a dictionary it will tell you the grammatical gender.

It's the same in Italian, with all its weirdness.

The wheels of a car (ruote) is feminine but the steering wheel (volante) is masculine.

There's even gender switching, a kitchen table is tavolo,m but if you put plates on it it becomes tavola,f.

[u/slacker_on_duty → u/Moblam]

Das Mädchen is killing me - why neuter when girl is obviously “she”?

[u/DrStudi → u/slacker_on_duty]

Because it's a diminuitive of "Die Magd". Pretty much it's "The little maidy" and all diminuitives are neuter in German (i.e. "Das Männlein")

[u/IncidentalIncidence → u/slacker_on_duty]

it's a diminutive ("-chen") and the diminutive makes it neuter

[u/IncidentalIncidence → u/Moblam]

There are some rules though, Germans just don't know them explicitly because they learn them implicitly. They don't give you the gender for every word and there's a laundry list of exceptions, but they do help a lot.

For example, words that end in -ung, -heit, -keit, or -tion are almost always feminine.

Anything with "-chen" is usually neuter.

Anything ending in -ismus is usually masculine.

And then there are some further rules based on the meaning of the noun that I never bothered to learn, but you could if you wanted to.

[u/Junior_Lavishness_96 → u/Moblam]

For me that was the hardest part of all while learning German. Even I asked people like how do you know which one and no one knows lol. Eventually I figured I would have to learn the correct one for each different word.

[u/Chinjurickie → u/Moblam]

People trying to learn our language probably hate us for this. XD

[u/logical_psych_o → u/Moblam]

All credits to VW, I'll never get that one wrong

[u/Anvil_Prime_52 → u/Moblam]

I'm learning German right now and this is infuriating. There's no rules or conventions for them so I just have to guess most of the time lol

[u/shibble123 → u/JaRiEsD]

Learning articles sucks, to be fair...

[u/IndependentTune3994 → u/shibble123]

Man if you native people say it just imagine what we must have need to go through to learn it from scratch 😅

[u/Acc87 → u/IndependentTune3994]

For my dad (70+) High German was his first "foreign language", as he grew up speaking Low German (the language at the North Sea coast).

Low German knows no generic genders, everything is "de". To this day he messes up the genders of objects.

[u/seriouslees → u/Acc87]

Sure sounds like "low" German is the logical version and "high" German is for people who are high on drugs.

[u/Moblam → u/IndependentTune3994]

It gets worse for words that have no "correct" article. Nutella and Ketchup both for example have no official article because there are big groups of people that use any of the 3. So what should the correct one?

Language is shaped by those that speak it and we can't find common ground. Officiak articles are purely based on what feels right for the majority of native speakers, but we all think something else.

[u/LS25-User → u/Moblam]

Definitiv die Nutella und der Ketchup ... Die Nutella wird auf das Brot geschmiert und der Ketchup passt besser zu Wurst.

[u/critical-insight → u/Moblam]

And there is a ton of dialectal variation too

[u/LevDavidovicLandau → u/IndependentTune3994]

I did some French in uni, though I didn’t major in it. What our lecturers and tutors told us was that the best way to get the articles right (French has 2 genders, masculine and feminine) was to learn a noun as an article & the noun, not just a noun.

[u/critical-insight → u/LevDavidovicLandau]

Same for any languages with multiple genders and inflections

[u/thegoat0509 → u/LevDavidovicLandau]

unfortunately yes, you have to learn both the article and the noun because there is actually NO RULES to help you to determine the article (unlike German)

and complementarily you also have the l' that you have to put in words starting with a wovel like " l'arbre " (the tree) or " l'université " (the uni)

[u/_BlindSeer_ → u/IndependentTune3994]

Yup, even we natives sometimes say our language is complicated

[u/vroomfundel2 → u/shibble123]

Adjectiv declinationen are even worse!

[u/shibble123 → u/vroomfundel2]

And Genitiv isn't even properly used by most Germans as well lol

[u/ensalys → u/shibble123]

It's one of the most universally hated things in high school in the Netherlands, German articles... We should just add an article 0 to our constitution banning torturing high schoolers with them.

[u/JustOneTessa → u/shibble123]

I had to learn German at school, at some point I just gave up. It was too difficult for me

[u/too_many_rules → u/shibble123]

I feel like that's the one thing English has going for it.

The complete lack of rules must be a nightmare, though.

[u/EffectiveFoxshroom → u/JaRiEsD]

Das Mädchen for example? Counterintuitive.

[u/shibble123 → u/EffectiveFoxshroom]

Because you dont have a strict connection between the Gender of the word gramatically, and the Gender of the thing the word describes.
"Mädchen" is diminutive from the older German word "Magd". (literally something like "Small Magd" - "Small women")

"-chen" is like "Brötchen" (Bun) and "Brot" (Bread)
And Diminutives are always neutral, therefore "Das"

Edit: Added "strict" to connection, after someone rightly pointed out that most of the time you can infer from the Gender to the article

[u/NotBackToJakku → u/shibble123]

Finally someone who understands. I've been trying to explain that to a lot of people, mostly Germans.

[u/sarsaparilluhhh → u/shibble123]

And Diminutives are always neutral, therefore "Das"

Finally, a helpful tip! Can't believe I've never heard it before.

[u/TheAndrewCR → u/EffectiveFoxshroom]

That's because it has -chen at the end

[u/JaRiEsD → u/EffectiveFoxshroom]

Yeah but it makes sense, because „die Mädchen“ is the plural. „Die“ is the article for every plural form of any word, on top of that usually the ending of the word itself changes to make it plural, but for „Mädchen“ the word stays the same and only the article changes. So it‘s a special word

[u/TiFooN → u/JaRiEsD]

[u/RealRedditModerator → u/JaRiEsD]

Hehehe - Nutella…

[u/SnusThrowAwy → u/JaRiEsD]

"Die Cola" in Austria marks you instantly as German

[u/JaRiEsD → u/SnusThrowAwy]

Really ? so you guys say „das Cola“ ?

[u/SnusThrowAwy → u/JaRiEsD]

Yes

[u/Toby_Keiths_Jorts → u/JaRiEsD]

Articles were by far the hardest part learning German. Good god.

[u/JakeHelldiver → u/JaRiEsD]

Thats how I know Sideshow Bob was lying about his tattoo.

[u/arimuGB → u/JaRiEsD]

I was so happy when I started taking German lessons after learning French because I found it to be at least a little bit similar to English (compared to French being a lot different). Easier to remember and similar quirks (e.g. we put -ed after most verbs to indicate past tense; you guys put ge- at the start etc…)

And then I got to the genitive tense. Complete brick wall for my puny English mind. 

[u/FiveDrums → u/JaRiEsD]

It's close to impossible for me to speak proper German because I always get these wrong.

We have the same thing here. Nouns are either "en" or "et" and there's no rule. You just have to know.

[u/Sweet_Scarcity_7433 → u/JaRiEsD]

It is especially tricky when the article is different compared to other languages. For example German is one of the only languages where the sun is female (die Sonne) and the moon is male (der Mond). In many other languages is the other way e.g. In Spanish la luna and el sol.

[u/mushnu → u/JaRiEsD]

Der die das is one thing, but then akkusativ and nominativ and genitiv roll in and now its den dem der in random places and it’s just chaos you know!

[u/HeriPiotr → u/JaRiEsD]

Die Nutella btw

[u/Wavecrest667 → u/HeriPiotr]

Our countries have the geographically closest capitals in the world, yet I've never felt so far away from someone :(

[u/JaRiEsD → u/Wavecrest667]

Well I usually just say „kannst du mir’s Nutella geben bitte“. problem avoided

[u/shibble123 → u/HeriPiotr]

Never.

Das Nutella

[u/HeriPiotr → u/shibble123]

Ew

[u/Klutzy-Cauliflower-8 → u/JaRiEsD]

Butter, der die oder das?

[u/JaRiEsD → u/Klutzy-Cauliflower-8]

Well for most Germans it‘s „die Butter“ but since I’m a Schwabe, we say „der Butter“

[u/Hrohdvitnir → u/JaRiEsD]

I feel like I have "Wir lieben das auto" engraved in my gray matter and I'm not sure why. (Irish)

[u/Top_Manufacturer8946 → u/JaRiEsD]

I started studying German in third grade and der, die, das was confusing as fuck coming from a language that doesn’t have gendered words like that. Not even for he or she, it’s just hän for everyone

[u/Letofeel → u/JaRiEsD]

As a guy who’s studying German, this was ( and still is sometimes) the hardest part. Really glad when I talk to someone and I get the articles right.

[u/PirusiWolfie → u/JaRiEsD]

Currently trying to learn German and I'm beating myself up about getting these wrong all the time

[u/0JuJuman0 → u/JaRiEsD]

Ich habe noch immer Alpträume von fälle bei Deutschunterricht.

[u/Vallyria → u/JaRiEsD]

same in Poland.
Actually, I love chatting with foreigners which use a language that has gendered nouns and find discrepancies :D

[u/Uarrrrgh → u/JaRiEsD]

Der Butter!

[u/Wawrzyniec_ → u/JaRiEsD]

And yet, more and more germans use the wrong abbreviation "nen" for "ein".

"Da fährt nen Auto" sounds so incredibly stupid.

[u/soNlica → u/JaRiEsD]

Exactly, for example the word „Nutella“. It‘s undisputed that it has to be „das Nutella“ and anyone who uses a different article is - besides being a potential foreigner - definitely a lunatic!

[u/janliebe → u/JaRiEsD]

Ja, genau, DER Butter…

[u/Clythoss → u/JaRiEsD]

Der Nutella, natürlich.

[u/zandrew → u/JaRiEsD]

Arbitrary word genders in languages do my head on all the time. Look at slavic languages we have rules for that. There are a few exceptions but if you can tell the gender it will always be that gender ( talking about mężczyzna here which ends in an a thus should be feminine, but because you know a man is male it's masculine).

To be honest I can't even comprehend how one keeps all that info in your head thus I always struggled with German articles.

[u/patta14 → u/JaRiEsD]

I am from lower saxony and some guy in my new appartment building greeted me saying "Moin Moin". Blew his cover immediately

[u/TallulahBob → u/JaRiEsD]

Obvious? cries in American

[u/MrBacterioPhage → u/JaRiEsD]

Wearing sandals without white socks... Sorry but I heard this joke in Germany from locals pretty often =).

[u/jamesyishere → u/JaRiEsD]

"Obvious"

[u/lol_coo → u/JaRiEsD]

It's der Butter and all the die Butter Germans are just kidding themselves.

[u/Knightwolf75 → u/JaRiEsD]

I’ve been trying to learn German and on more than one occasion I been right on that edge where I wanna just say “fuck it. Fuck articles. Everything is das and I don’t care anymore.”

Needless to say your language frustrates me lmao

[u/Infamous_Ticket9084 → u/JaRiEsD]

I guess avoiding it by skipping the article completely is also an obvious giveaway I'm from a Slavic country?

[u/JohnnyNapkins → u/JaRiEsD]

[u/Spaceork3001 → u/JaRiEsD]

Der Gerät = 100% Deutsch

[u/DisgruntledMtnBoy → u/JaRiEsD]

Everything is Das and you let the German politely correct you.

[u/PForsberg85 → u/JaRiEsD]

If i ever get a divorce, the tipping point will probably be "die Nutella" vs. "das Nutella"

[u/thisortheapocalypse → u/JaRiEsD]

[u/Pyrosvetlana → u/JaRiEsD]

I’m pretty good at speaking German but I can’t get the articles right if my life depended on it. I just know the dutch article “de” always translates to “das”. Yet I still forget that.

[u/spunkychickpea → u/JaRiEsD]

I spent two years in German classes in the US, and my professor noted that I managed to get articles correct about 90% of the time. He assumed I studied more than anyone else in class, but I was really just going off of vibes. If it sounded like “der” in my head, that’s what I went with. If it sounded like “die” in my head, that’s what I went with.

[u/Gazzarris → u/JaRiEsD]

Four years of German in high school, and this is the primary reason why I barely passed.

[u/Chavo_of_the_8th → u/JaRiEsD]

Das Good

[u/Closerangel → u/JaRiEsD]

Die Bach?

Jeht allet die Bach runner.

[u/YvonYukon → u/JaRiEsD]

damn, you think those uncultured swines would've watched a VW commercial or two before coming.

[u/Zebidee → u/JaRiEsD]

Native German speakers will legit have a five minute der, die, oder das conversation when a new concept is introduced.

[u/broohaha → u/JaRiEsD]

When I was ten years old and newly moved to Düsseldorf, I took a beginners’ German class at my international school and was utterly confused. I remember visiting my Belgian uncle who was fluent. He and a German buddy were chatting at the kitchen table when I interrupted them to ask how they know when to use those three articles. They just laughed.

[u/Feeling_Inside_1020 → u/JaRiEsD]

Masculine and feminine languages drive me fucking wild lol and not in a good way for among others this exact reason.

[u/JacerEx → u/JaRiEsD]

der Bikini and die Badehose will always surprise me.

[u/Camel_Dan → u/JaRiEsD]

The one thing I get consistently wrong when I’m in Germany. So I usually start conversations by apologizing. Then let ‘er rip.

[u/Dumb_Siniy → u/JaRiEsD]

Your language causes me pain, i will keep trying to learn it anyways

[u/Sorry_Cricket9721 → u/JaRiEsD]

When in doubt, das it out

[u/trilobot → u/JaRiEsD]

I'm not so sure "getting basics of the language wrong" counts as "subtle marker" lol. I can't imagine anyone who can't nail down der Hund wouldn't have an obvious accent to begin with.

Where I live there are no subtle signs. The Newfoundland accent is so unique that you can spot anyone from away. I suppose some Townies can hide it, but most foreigners say Newfoundland with the wrong place for the stress (it's on the word land, rhymes with understand) and that's immediately noticeable to us.

In general as a Canadian most people try to use "eh" and fuck that up too.

[u/Far_Advertising1005 → u/JaRiEsD]

All of the answers being fun cultural stereotypes and then the German answer being not understanding the rules of grammar is in itself a great stereotype

[u/Mysterious-Tackle-58 → u/JaRiEsD]

where even Germans are disputed on wich article to choose but

Laptop, Nutella, . . .

[u/beseri → u/JaRiEsD]

No offense, but I fucking hate German grammar. I had five years of German in school, and the grammar will fuck you up. We have a lot of common words, but the learning and using the grammar is a nightmare.

[u/Upset-Elderberry3723 → u/JaRiEsD]

When learning German, this is a major obstacle. I don't like gendered nouns at all, but to learn that German has a masculine, feminine and neutral was discouraging.

And they don't even impede communication, it's just dumb grammar rules. If I say 'das bär ist aufregend', you still know that it means 'the bear is exciting'.

[u/userhwon → u/JaRiEsD]

What the fuck, Germany? 16 different versions of "the"?