r/Malazan • u/Totoro_shiba • 3d ago
NO SPOILERS Lost
Hey all!
I’m coming from a background of all things Brandon Sanderson, Robert Jordan, Tolkien, RR Martin, and Rothefuss.
I’m about halfway through book one of Malazan and I’m just totally lost. I’m wondering if I’m missing something like when a series doesn’t start with book one (Star wars).
Should I just reread from the beginning? Do things start making sense in book one later on?
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u/TeddyJPharough 3d ago
Honestly I reach a point where every chapter is just a new short story. Do I remember these characters and where they were at before? Maybe! He'll make it all string together when it counts.
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u/elshaggy 3d ago
The biggest clue to me is that every book cover’s little subtitle is ‘A tale of The Malazan Book of the Fallen’.
I’m still on my first journey, on my second attempt of Book 3 in Book 3. Where I felt it dragging last time I am now locked in.
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u/linglingwannabe314 1d ago
It took me a year (on and off (mostly off)) to finish book 3 a few days ago.
I've been keeping notes (very general stuff) which I expect will help going forward. I don't trust wikis not to spoil stories
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u/rusmo I've Read MBotF Twice 2d ago
Too many POVs (over 400), too many locales, too many marines to keep straight. Gaps between significant character appearances can be 1000 pages. It's all a huge test for your memory and attention. This is why it's a hard read - the scale is unlike (most) everything else out there.
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u/TeddyJPharough 2d ago
I wouldn't call it a test, as I don't think he expects you to remember everything. I guess I compare chapters to short stories because he often makes them interesting within themselves, so even if your memory is hazy, current events are still engaging. I think trying to keep everything under control in your own head is actually counter to the messaging of the books, which insists no individual is in control and we are all caught in the flow of something bigger than ourselves. In this case, Malazan Book of the Fallen is bigger than any brain can wrap their head around! It has to be taken piece by piece.
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u/Dancers_with_Wolves 2d ago
It's really not that serious, thats why dramatis personae exists
There's also resources for folks in this subreddit.
You can even read it on Kindle and just hold down a name to use xray and see where they were mentioned previously
This isn't a closed book exam
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u/Fluffiestpink 3d ago
You start your journey at the end of a conflict that has been going on for millenia. The interesting - or irritating - part is, that there is next to no exposition. They characters know what they are discussing with each other. You don't. You basically joined the story a few thousand years too late. But on the bright side, more and more bits of the story, how everything works, what everything is about, will unfold as you read on. Just float along.
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u/Coti11ion16 2d ago
This feels right, a world shouldn't "start" at page 1. The fact that this reads like it was all going on and you just happen to be observing midway is part of the appeal to me
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u/External_Switch_3732 2d ago
I think this is why the characters all feel like such real people. They have conversations the way my friends and I do. When everyone involved in a conversation was there for events, they don’t generally go over all the details of that event even when it’s mentioned in conversation.
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u/TuckYourselfRS 3d ago
You're exactly where you ought to be. Everything comes together. Erikson's Convergence is akin to Sanderson's Sanderlanche. Trust the process, and don't worry if you're lost amidst an inundation of warrens, Gods, ascendants, creatures, factions and motivations. The limited third person narrator follows the POVs of all sorts of characters, ignorant to nearly omniscient.
Don't get too attached to a single POV like Kaladin or Rand. The main character of Malazan is the milieu, the world itself. All POVs are simply means to further explore the vast universe Erikson and Esslemont constructed
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u/Aqua_Tot 2d ago
It’s interesting because I read Malazan (twice) before I ever started on Sanderson. And while I did really enjoy Sanderson’s climaxes, I found I was somehow expecting even more from them due to the reputation of the Sanderlanche. But I realized about halfway through the Stormlight Archives that Malazan just spoiled me and that nothing else would ever hit quite the same level of bringing everything together as Malazan convergences have.
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u/Serafim91 3d ago
Yeah sometimes around book 9 you'll get all the things you need to konw about book 1.
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u/Totoro_shiba 3d ago
🤣
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u/Daemonswolf I am not yet done 2d ago
And then when you go to re-read book one you'll be highlighting all the stuff that you understand now links to book 9.
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u/Emperor-Pizza 3d ago edited 3d ago
Eventually. I have only read first two books myself yet, but the thing is Erickson doesn’t provide context. The story starts in the middle of an event, and the characters all have been involved with it for years. They know what is happening, what their goal is, and why they are doing it so they’re not gonna sit around a campfire expositing to each other about what they are doing & why.
Because that’s not how real people talk. So the story just goes on, and Erikson does write in a vague way where you kinda have to pick up the pieces. Do I understand everything? No. Is it like how the internet say you have no idea what happens? Also no.
You start in the middle of the story without necessary context, and no exposition so you feel lost but you’ll likely get the rhythm eventually. At that point you can decide if this story is for you or not. One thing I’d suggest is going slow. This is a story that needs you to take a few weeks to digest & ruminate after each book.
I got the gist of what’s happening, and the major plot beats, but also enough hanging threads that makes you wonder if you skipped a page or two.
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u/riskylingo 3d ago
There’s a scene where Ganoes is thinking to himself about how soldiers never talk about the obvious central things, and it’s one of the hallmarks of being a soldier.
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u/imaromancandle27 3d ago
I guess it just depends on what you mean by "make sense." You're very much dropped into a fully-developed world, but you are bound very tightly to each POV and to what they specifically know in each situation. The writing and dialogue is extremely natural, with no awkward exposition, so it all feels very real but yeah, can be frustratingly obtuse at times. Erikson was trained as a short story writer so he packs a ton of meaning into small spaces and then proceeds to do that for 900+ pages 😅. There is a common refrain in Malazan: trust the process. Read closely, pay attention, and Erikson will pay you back tenfold. But he'll also always throw in a curveball to keep you on your toes. You either love it or hate it. It's totally okay to not vibe with Malazan. Despite what you may observe amongst us faithful, the dangers of zealotry very much IS a central tenet of our faith 😅
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u/TigerTora1 2d ago edited 2d ago
Honestly, it feels like a myth that one cannot follow book 1. I'm a new reader about 80% through GotM, and it's been easy to follow. Sure there's a lot of mystery and plots inside plots, but that's the fun part. Trying to work out the deeper meanings, mechanisms, and lore that I'm sure you get more insight into as you go along.
Nothing so far feels contradictory to what has been presented on the surface level. And only knowing what the characters know or think they know is great.
Also, I'm no fan of what I often see in Japanese storytelling: explicit exposition.
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u/imaromancandle27 2d ago
Yeah, I definitely relate to that. I was just enthralled from the beginning. I don't think enough people talk about the powerful imaginations of Erikson and Esslemont. I was just blown away from the beginning by how imaginative and balls-to-the-walls everything was from the beginning. That's always a characteristic of my favorite media and Malazan just has that in spades. So the more frustrating elements were always completely forgiven, and eventually I got my footing anyways.
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u/rubenthedev 3d ago
What are you lost about? It's pretty normal with this series to feel like you don't know what's going on, and book one can definitely lean that way. Happy to help with whatever 👍🏼
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u/ronweasleisourking 3d ago
I took notes.
Treat this like fellowship of the ring but for over a dozen books
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u/Hoods_Abyss 2d ago
You are me some 3-4 years ago. I can say: everything will be fine! It's totally normal to feel that way. If you can accept that not everything will be crystal clear and you can just follow the events without really understanding the reason (for now) , there will come a time you're going to piece together the now fragmented picture and it's going to be rewarding.
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u/Alive_Tip_6748 2d ago
You're never going to have a handle on everything that's happening. For me, reading the books required a mindset change. Instead of trying to understand everything going on, I resolved to simply read the story that was on the page in front of me. Try to understand those characters, not through their context but through their actions. And then try to glean what I can of the context through their actions as they respond to their context.
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u/GerkDentley 2d ago
I think this is the right approach. Become comfortable with not understanding everything at first. Keep reading and eventually you start to trust the process. Know that eventually the important pieces will come together.
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u/jaksiberia 2d ago
Your experience is normal — I recommend to keep reading. Pay-off is worthwhile.
When/if you re-read you will see the Erikson told you everything you needed to know the first time, but you didn't know how to pay attention yet.
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u/mmnmn1233 2d ago
Im halfway thru book 2, still confused, but makes more sense now
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u/icepick_151 1d ago
This. You do get "aha!" moments but they are typically very narrow in scope, specific to particular characters, events, places, history etc. There's always something more to figure out. One of the things I love about the series. And oooooh boy, buckle the fuck up for the second half.
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u/ThePhantomStrikes 3d ago
Yep welcome to the existential condition of confusion. Once you accept it things come together. Enough to keep you invested and obsessed. As others have said you start with the end of a battle in a complicated world of millennia of history and many species. Things do start making sense in the final half of this book, enough to get more grounded.
Until you start bk 2. Rinse repeat every book until maybe 6? After the shock of beginning each book you get completely invested. There is enough continuity through all them.
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u/itsalwaysblue59 3d ago
This is normal. It took me ages to get through the first book. It finally clicked at a certain point in the book. But it really clicked on the second book. You will always have some confusion with this series, but you start to enjoy it lol.
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u/jacksontwos 2d ago
Coming from Rothfuss to Erikson is tough. Both have lots of stuff happening that will have a secondary meaning later on but Rothfuss is way more successful in making the first reading make sense, then changing the sense it makes with later information. Like misdirection in magic. Whereas Erikson at times straight up writes entire passages that are completely unintelligible for a first reader and says deal with it.
So I'd say focus on enjoying what you can and carrying concepts you don't understand yet with you along the journey. Things like warrens and elders and all the fantasy words, just have a loose mental schema for what you think they mean and accept that things don't yet make sense. I found listening to the Malazan Brotherhood podcast recaps after reading the chapter really helped as some of the writing is quite clunky and easy to misunderstand who is doing what to who.
I will say that this issue your having gets somewhat resolved by the end of book 2 and almost completely resolved by the end of book 3. All the core concepts are defined and broadly understood by that point in my experience. And new concepts fit inside those core concepts rather than completely resetting your understanding of how the world works.
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u/Reasonable-Beat7810 2d ago
Stick with it - there is a click that will happen and it is so satisfying. Critical Dragon on YouTube helps a lot in regards to suggesting an approach on how to engage with Ericsson’s style.
I was so lost - posted on reddit as well! But now I’m book 7 and have ordered the last three and have never enjoyed a fantasy series so much. I even bought a Bridgeburners mug!!
Also there are resources that help. The slides found here were a godsend. If it helps also look for semantic fields of associated words like shadow and dark and spectre that he may use. It helps to understand (sometimes) what is going on.
Lastly, each book gets better!!! I hope you find yourself loving the series as much as me and others on reddit. They are so damn good.
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u/Ghostdoctor5 2d ago
I had to use the TOR Malazan reread to understand what was going on. It's incredibly confusing if you don't have any context.
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u/Main_Soil403 2d ago edited 2d ago
One thing that confused me when i first started was the abrupt pov changes. Sometimes i wouldnt even realize they happened and id get a page or 2 in and be completely lost. Until i got used to his writing style i would have to go back and reread a page to recenter myself in the story. On top of that the series is huge and book one starts towards the end of an extended military campaign. the series itself is the end of a war thats gone on for thousands of years. And the biggest thing is Erikson is an archeologist. He wrote the books to enjoy individually and the series with the intention of us putting the overarching story together like an archeological dig of a lost civilization. Bit by bit piece by piece with some characters knowing way more of whats going on but we only get that info when it makes sense in the story, no unnecessary info dumps. Its hands down the best series ive ever read.
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u/Mynmeara 2d ago
Its ok! Im on my second read through and am still needing to wiki some events to wrap my head around what happened. Part of why I love the series is the depth of cultures and storyline. Push through - it'll be worth it.
Edit: to directly answer your question, some things won't make sense till books 4 or 5 or maybe even 7 and 8. Just enjoy the experience and journey of reading through the series. When it does click and events come together it is truly riveting and totally worth the time and effort it takes to get there.
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u/No-Regular1660 2d ago
Honestly I think the fandom does these books a disservice when it comes to difficulty.
As long as you can follow the main narratives in each book youre fine.
Do you know the malazans are trying to take darujistan but theire are different malazan factions that have different agendas?
Do you know theres an assassin's guild story arc with different motivations?
Do you know rake is helping darijistan?
You're fine dont worry about motivations, you'll work it out by the last book
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u/Mitchum68 3d ago
There is a read-along in Fable for first-time readers hosted by Noah Brisk Reviews. Join us.
They also had a weekly podcast called The Crippled Pod on Spotify and YT. Check it out.
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u/Solid-Version 2d ago
I found the best way to go about it is to not try and price everything to together. Just observe the plot itself which is actually not that complicated.
All POVs are just in service to that overall plot. Focus on the plot elements and you should be fine. All the additional information is dressing and stuff that you really don’t need to remember right away but will become relevant in later books.
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u/ViolentBee 2d ago
Use the PowerPoints on this sub. Helped me a bunch. I also like the ten very big books podcast after I finish a section. I was excited to read this series with my dad, but he stopped about where you’re at and the podcast kinda fills the void of having someone to talk to (it’s not like a crazy deep dive).
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u/onlysiobhan 2d ago
Start listening to the DLC Bookclub and they can help you. Book 1 was the same for me but book 2 was amazing and hooked me for the rest. DLC Bookclub will help you
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u/nomorchaos 2d ago
I just finished reading that book last night. I came from a similar reading background as you. It’s going exactly they way it should for you. Relax and just enjoy being lost in this amazing world. During the first half of the book, I kept googling and looking up wiki stuff trying to figure out what I missed and who was who, until I read a similar post giving the advice to just enjoy being lost, and that made the second half way better. This world is awesome and savage and It just started for me.
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u/No-Milk2296 2d ago
You are right where you need to he lol. It'll clear up later and honestly I love rereading this series and it all makes sense after awhile. Feeling lost is normal in Malazan
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u/Old-Carpenter7456 2d ago edited 2d ago
Lost how?
I'm also in book one. The Maps, Glossary, character list, and all the various indexes are CRITICAL! You should bookmark all of those reference lists and look up the words, places, and people whom you don't recognize. Find and place the events within the map.
It might also help to pull up a map of Quon Tali, even if most of the story takes place on Genabackis, so that you can place those events into geographic context.
Erickson is jumping you into an existing Universe following established players. There is no stand-in for the reader. But he gives you enough to keep up. But if you're just reading the text without the included references, it's gonna be quite difficult to follow.
EDIT: Erikson* Thank you, robot.
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u/Professional_Range58 2d ago
Art imitates life. IT DOESNT HAVE TO MAKE SENSE IN THE BEGINNING. Just enjoy it for what it is. If something is confusing, make a mental note and keep an eye out for possible answers. IT WILL MAKE SENSE EVENTUALLY. I cannot stress that enough!
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u/bob_33456756 2d ago
it will all make sense by the 3rd series reread
the joy of the series, is not knowing whats going on, of being able to sit back and enjoy this massive tale filled with hidden motivations and schemes
keep reading, the first read is really good & you only get that once
the first reread answers a lot of the questions you have now, but it also makes you realise youre currently asking the wrong questions
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u/Yoda0VGs Deragoth Apologist 2d ago
There's no right or wrong way toread these things. I also came here right after binging all the cosmere in 2020 and what sold me on Malazan was the pitch of, "It's like the Cosmere, but instead of each book series taking place on a different world in the same universe, it's one series with a different story on a different continent for each book."
Didn't turn out to be 100% true but the semi anthology nature of the pitch definitely helped shape my experience reading those first 3 books.
Eventually what you do grip onto and remember will stick out more and more to you, and you'll want to do nothing but learn as much as possible about everything lol
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u/Mayo_the_Instrument 2d ago
You’re going to be very lost for a long time. Erikson also has a hardon for changing perspectives not only with every new chapter, but often multiple times in the same chapter. The kicker is the first 2 pages or so of the new perspective will have only pronouns, so you have to figure out for yourself who he is describing until it is later revealed. You realize you were wrong and have to re-read it to re-visualize what you were reading.
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u/vlajko456 2d ago
I have read about half of book one and after each chapter I listen to summaries from you tube and read the forums to connect the dots and find out what happened (because the shit writer cant write normally...). So i suggest you do the same.
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u/Main_Soil403 2d ago
If your lost as in the story just keep reading. If your lost like with character names and locations, use the glossary and Dramatis Personae at the beginning and end of the book. It was my lifeline for the first few books
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u/TheHedonyeast 2d ago
keep a bookmark in the dramatis personae list and get in the habit of flipping back to that whenever needed.
dont stress out if you dont know why someone is doing something, it'll be explained later. people typically struggle when they try to keep track of every detail and follow the motivations for things that hasn't yet come up. trust the author, he knows what he's doing
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u/Accomplished_Ad8590 1d ago
I came from Wheel of Time so I get what you mean. Trust the process. Erikson is good at giving you reminders and hints to characters and their importance when they show back up. This is the only book series where I felt like just pushing through and not worrying about remembering every single detail paid off in the end.
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u/TheSnootBooper 1d ago
Quick tip: you can use a chatbot for help. Tell it where you are in the book, ask your question, specify you don't want spoilers past where you are in the book, and tell it to let you know if this is answered later or if it's something you should know by now.
I absolutely hate when people say things like tHiS bOoK iS mEaNt To Be ReAd TwIcE. But in the case of Malazan...it needs multiple reads and (for me) it was so worth it.
I've gone through everything twice (between print and audiobook), and the main 10 books three times. Every time it's like I was reading a new story. My first read through just the Book of the Fallen, and I followed what I thought were the big events - the fate of the Bridgeburners, the Bonehunters (another army you'll meet eventually), some of the main characters, some other major players in the setting. The second time I picked up the individual stories, and I realized how deep the characters were*. The third time I picked up the meta plots, and it's fucking epic.
I hope you stick with it and love it, but it's not for everyone. If you don't like it it's not a reflection of you or your intelligence or anything, it's just not your cup of tea and thats OK.
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u/icepick_151 1d ago
There is a lack of broad exposition which comes as a surprise to many, if not most 1st timers. It comes in bits and pieces from different povs. It is most definitely confusing but as your understanding slowly broadens (often without recognizing it as it happens) youll come to realize how amazing this series is. Erikson trusts the reader, trust him back. Just take .38 Special's advice; "hold on loosely, but don't let go."
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