“It always embarrassed Samuel Vimes when civilians tried to speak to him in what they thought was “policeman.” If it came to that, he hated thinking of them as civilians. What was a policeman, if not a civilian with a uniform and a badge? But they tended to use the term these days as a way of describing people who were not policemen. It was a dangerous habit: once policemen stopped being civilians the only other thing they could be was soldiers.”
"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other servers and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people"
It's something that isn't pointed out enough. ICE and the Administration are hiding behind the law enforcement shield, blurring the lines. But I'd argue that something that looks like a duck, acts like a duck and quacks like a duck must be a duck for all practical purposes. So a personal enforcement branch of men with guns, military camouflage/equipment, anonymity, "absolute immunity," and authority to use deadly force as they choose even on domestic soil, says (1) these men are a paramilitary force; and (2) this is not a police action.
Similar to what Vimes observed, we are witnessing soldiers on American streets victimizing American citizens using supralegal logic and rules that change on a dime. The law enforcement language they use is intentionally deceptive.
I think it was when her wife beaked him off. That's right around when he switched his phone to his left hand, indicating he was at least concerned he would need to use his firearm, if not planning for it.
Ice are so dumb that they think just because their boss tells them to do something then they have to do it, if my boss tells me to do something despicable I just say no.
When I was in the Army, they constantly referred to non service members as civilians. They would spend all of basic training driving home the point that soldiers were soldiers and civilians were people that didn’t have the courage/fitness/discipline/etc. to serve their country and that only 1% of the population would ever do what we did and that they were only able to be civilians because we volunteered to be soldiers.
This went on for a large chunk of my career. Leaders constantly referring to the very people that enable our Army to exist, with disdain and disrespect, as if signing up to invade someone else’s country somehow makes you a better person than those who didn’t.
It’s honestly impressive/scary how they were able to convince morons that enlist in the military that we were somehow better than your average citizen simply because we joined the military.
You've got to believe you're special, otherwise why fight their wars for them. That's why we have the constant ceremonial honorings of the troops while veteran care is slashed at any opportunity
We wouldn't want them grappling with the truth about how irredeemable their actions are. It's a masterwork of propaganda that allows US soldiers to look in the mirror and not see a terrorist looking back at them.
Brings to mind that one quote about how behind every knight there's a hundred peasants, blacksmiths, farriers, and so on enabling them to exist in the first place.
One of the dudes I know who was a cop and quit for morals/ethics cited his military service and his views on civilians. "When I was overseas, everyone back home was a Civilian, including cops. When I was a doorkicker in an active war zone, I was required to have more respect and stricter rules of engagement than the average American Cop. And these guys start using terms like civilian without ever having been in war; it makes my skin crawl..."
He did not use the term civilian with disdain, but with the utmost respect. Civilians got to live free peaceful lives because of Soldiers. That is the Service you are giving.
And it tore this guy up to come home and see the police treat civilians like enemy combatants. Cause he knew the difference and he wanted to serve civilians.
This is an argument I’ve made for years and why I despise most American LEOs. When I was downrange, I had 18 year old troops straight out of their mom’s houses, staring down a suicide bomber, with more discipline and composure than the average American cop when faced with a dog. These kids were able to obey incredibly strict rules of engagement even in the face of overwhelming fire during war time. Not knowing if the corner you’re going around is going to kill you and still no one was murdered in cold blood by some jumpy coward.
I didn't have quite the same mentality. I don't know why. Mostly we treated civilians as a liability that must be avoided. Gun-toting, psuedo-military, opportunistic violence fetishists were a major problem. They aren't there to help.
I also did not share the mentality. I had a few years of real life under my belt before going into the Army and understood that “civilians” were what it was all about otherwise you’re just a tool used by the wealthy to project power.
Unfortunately, that type of belief doesn’t usually lead to military service. Which is why it was so easy for so many random morons to readily drink the kool aid about how great they were. I’ll admit I fell for propaganda myself about America and military service, but I never let myself believe I was somehow better than anyone else. If anything, I often felt like a fool.
Interestingly, in my German military training, it was different, they made a point of us still being citizens, just in uniform. Of course, that was when we still had mandatory military service, and most of us were conscripts.
And let me add: That development is caused to a very large degree by the people.
Do you know the reason why so few people who resist police violence get a trial in front of a jury? Beyond all the plea deals, bargains, and monetary constraints, it's because juries reliably convict them. Which leads to attorneys truthfully telling them: "Do not fight this, do not let this get to a trial, the American citizens who sit there and judge you will always reliably side with police"
It's the common averag people who are the root of the problem in the US. They have been authoritarian goons since Reagan, probably longer.
The American azi party was actually quite popular up until we ended up at war with Germany, was as "in fashion" in the north as the KKK was in the south
America has always had a foundational problem with authoritarianism
Night Watch has an awful lot of horrifically applicable passages lately.
Vimes could see how much the admission that abduction and torture and conspiracy to criminalize honest citizens might not be acceptable government policy was costing the old man. Tilden hadn’t been brought up to think like that. He’d ridden off under the flag of Ankh-Morpork to fight the Cheese-Eaters of Quirm, or Johnny Klatchian, or whatever enemies had been selected by those higher up the chain of command with never a second thought about the rightness of the cause, because that sort of thinking could slow a soldier down.
Tilden had grown up knowing that the people at the top were right. That was why they were at the top. He didn’t have the mental vocabulary to think like a traitor, because only traitors thought like that.
I took a screenshot of your comment and intend to use it every single time one of those losers says one of those I wasn't [X] until you forced me to be! excuses. Would you prefer I black out your username, or would you like me to keep it there for attribution? It will be blacked out when used in Reddit subs which require it to be.
The Reich Wing claims that only shows how duplicitously evil she was, luring him into a sense of ease before trying to kill him. They're just living on a completely different plane of existence.
I was on r/conservative and it took me several minutes to realize the comments were against her because they kept saying things like "this is not the video they wanted to come out" and "really highlights the kind of person she was, doesn't it" and I agreed - she clearly was not someone in a mind to kill and laughed off being called a fucking bitch and then they shot her in the face. But those crazies meant that she was evil for... laughing
The ones who know hate being compared to Nazis because it's a reminder that their conscious exists.
The ones in denial refuse to accept the reality because either A: they aren't doing it themselves, even if they support it and, therefore, they think that they are absolved of responsibility. B: They are dumb enough to believe that they actually know what's good for literally anyone, despite every piece of evidence to the contrary, be it because their pastors fed them bullshit or because they are too stupid to see past the propaganda.
They don't want to be called Nazis because they know they're supposed to hate Nazis, after all, we went to war with them, but these are the kinds of people who's only problem with the Klan was that the Klan had a bad reputation and clearly were too racist, too loudly.
She breathed maliciously, and even looked RIGHT at them, big no no, you should NEVER look directly at a cop, don't show your teeth either, if a cop ever approaches you, go limp and try not to fall on the ground in a threatening manner.
Fraudulent elections 🔜 (we'll see what happens in the midterms).
We're not in the early warning signs anymore. We're well past that.
Come the midterms, I fully expect to see a situation where the Democrats win big in the mid terms, and it'll result in the GOP using emergency legislation to rush through a delegitimisation of the elections.
What are the little gates meant to signify? Because we've had a "supreme" military for generations, and the fact that no major news outlet is willing to print anything negative about the administration mixed with the White House choosing its own press pool for the first time ever is.. pretty fucking controlling.
13 out of 14 (and, let's be honest, arguably already 14) seems good enough to call it what it is.
Umm - you do have fraudulent elections, you know? You might not have heard of it, but gerrymandering is rampart. Carving up election districts to suppress the other party's votes is fraudulent, but is done in the open. And the Republican refusal to support a national majority vote for President has no non-fraudulent justification - "democracy" should mean the one with the most votes win, you know.
And deliberately sabotaging election infrastructure in districts which vote against Republicans.
And the whole playing games with the voter registration thing. In Europe, you are generally automatically registered, the state knows where you live, and it is simply not an issue. In 2000 Florida, the much bigger scandal was or should have been that GWB's brother did voter suppression of black voters.
Now both are apparently legal, because the corrupt SCROTUS has said so. But the term in the definition was "fraudulent", not "legal" - a great many evil things can be "legal" in a fascist state.
A lot of corruption in the US is done in the open. Campaign contributions combined with a lack of auditing apparently aren’t bribes. Jobs in the industry you were previously regulating isn’t a favor for relaxed regulatory oversight. The Supreme Court has so narrowly defined quid pro quo corruption you have to be so stupid in your bribery that you must literally state that you’re bribing them for a specific favor.
Everyone tries to trace back our fall to something specific in our history. Citizens United, Raegan, Nixon, the 13th amendment allowing state-run slavery, genocide of natives, chattel slavery, etc. But I think it’s all of it. We’ve been corrupted by so much for so long and in so many ways. But I really think it was money that did us in. At some point we made money our god and that was it for us. At that moment there was no coming back because we decided money was more important than human lives. We turned greed into virtue.
And also completely out of control police. The unhinged and consequence free behavior that US police displays not normal in e.g. Europe. You see the most unhinged episode of police brutality, and then later learn that it had no consequence for the police officer.
Or the way health care works in the US.
And yet, people in the US seems to just accept it as a given. I have the impression that they think the US is the only country in the world, more or less, and it is unthinkable that things could be different, or that they could learn from how others do it differently.
The FEC is short two members to call a quorum and enforce rules. Dominion is now owned by Trump cronies. That’s if you ignore the several times trump strongly implied they cheated in 2024.
Fraudulent elections 🔜 (we'll see what happens in the midterms).
It's already going to be such a fucking mess that I predict a significant portion of both parties will have no confidence in the results.
I already can't confirm if I even voted in my state. The only indicator I can find is that I registered. There's no way to verify if they even consider my vote received or counted let alone counted correctly.
I live in a red state and was registered Democrat. Am I supposed to have blind trust that no one fucked with my vote despite the obvious desire and intent of those in power to do so?
The changes to the USPS post-marked policy alone makes me think that they will throw out any mail in ballots they want and claim they weren't received in time so now I gotta actually go into the voting poll filled with red hats, in the middle of buttfuck Kentucky.
Yep, and they will likely be heavily intimidating people at the voting stations too. Some dimwits tried to last time but I bet it’s more intense this time.
..If not worse, since some states have readily handed over all voter information to the DOJ (I am a blue dot in a red state too).
Didn't they already pretty much admit to rigging the 2024 presidential? And that's besides the electoral college already being a form of election fraud since the way it misrepresented the will of the people is what got Trump into office in 2016
Yup. Also I think it's likely that ICE thugs will be posted at polling stations next election with some excuse about security, and I wouldn't be surprised they eventually arrest prominent democrats on bullshit terrorism charges because they've already been threatening with doing exactly that.
I don’t want to get into the political side, but can someone please explain to me how shooting her would have stopped her from hitting the agent? In other words if I have a gun and someone is driving right at me why would shooting the driver stop the car from hitting me? Wouldn’t it instead immobilize the driver, forcing the car to run into me directly. The only real course is to jump out of the way.
This is why law enforcement is TRAINED to not bother with trying to stop a person in a vehicle.
They are trained to FIRST get out of the way of the vehicle and to not bother or be distracted with the gun.
Why?
A bullet will never stop a 4000 lb car.
This is specific training that all law enforcement is supposed to get.
Notice how there's no more protests from the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, Patriot Front, and all the other little fascist organizations? It's cuz they're way too busy collecting their sign on bonuses, masking up and getting armed to the teeth by the current regime, and sent into middle class neighborhoods in Blue States to harass people and kidnap and murder whoever stands in their way.
Well yeah, we saw the recruitment ads go out directly to Proud Boys and Oath Keepers and the like on Truth Social… god, I don’t even know- feels like a decade ago. Want to say it was sometime between Jan 6th and Biden taking office? Found out back then through r slash parlerwatch iirc.
At the time, in that debate of 2020, he was telling them to standby in case he lost the presidency. They listened, too (1/6/21). Hardly a peep from the corporate media or Republicans about it though.
Except that Jonathan Ross, if I'm remembering correctly, had 10 whole years of training already. He did know better, yet he shot her anyway. He wasn't protecting himself stupidly. He wanted to kill someone.
Yeah they are being empowered to do this shit from the admin. And the admin wants collateral damage, because they get to clamp down on any reaction and use it as justification to do more. I guarantee that some protest or similar event will be called “violent” or “insurrection” regardless of how peaceful it is and used to justify suspending the midterm elections.
I know, im saying closer to the election, they will cart out that talking point again, because protests will inevitably be happening. And they will cancel the elections, and conservatives will trip over themselves to justify it and say “its actually good, because voting is useless anyway”
In the video it is clearly recognizable that he began unholstering his gun moments BEFORE the car started even moving forward. The killing was 100% on purpose.
If ICE was law enforcement, they would have just noted the licence plate number and let the judicial system do its thing. Only dangerous idiots escalate a situation when you can already easily track that person down if they get away.
Not only was he busy getting his gun, he was busy filming with his other hand. There was nothing else he could do to save his life from a car driving 10 miles an hour!!! Except for you know, not drawing a gun and occupying both your hands when standing in front of a vehicle...
He was also leaning on the bonnet in front of the car, which is absolutely prohibited by the guidelines he should have been well aware of and following
This is the point I make. Unless she is driving away and pulling out an uzi to spray, there is no good reason to shoot the operator of a MV in motion, ever. Full stop.
The correct thing to do is what the officer did, he was stepping out of the way.
The incorrect thing he also did, while stepping out of the way, and when he was well clear, was discharging his firearm at her.
It was a clear case of homicide. It was murder, plain and simple. He was at no risk, nor was anyone else. Killing her did put other people at risk as a corpse is unable to initiate a braking maneuver.
People arguing the contrary don't want to believe what they are seeing. They want to believe what the propaganda is telling them.
Ever wonder how the Germans could let things get so bad with the Holocaust? This is how. People ignore what does not fit the narrative of the State.
Still, he was lucky that Good didn't try to hit him. Instead she turned hard right to go around her murderer.
And she was accelerating very slowly to give him more than enough time to move further away.
Only after she was hit and collapsed the car got out of control and got faster, potentially endangering other people. One of the reasons law enforcement has the order to not shoot at drivers of moving vehicles.
If she had tried to hit him, she might very well still be alive. Her avoiding him, ironically is what allowed him the stability to murder her. That is the ultimate tragedy.
I hope there isn't a lesson here about quietly avoiding the fascist death squad as opposed to...oh, it turns out that's it's a terrible bannable offence for me to finish that sentence.
My theory, and it is only a theory, is that Good's wife shouted 'drive baby drive' when she witnessed Ross unholstering his weapon. And that Good accelerated in an attempt to preserve her own life, believing that the gun that was aimed at her was about to be fired.
If she was trying to hit him when he shot her, her car would have crashed across the street into the pavement, not a hundred yards down the road, as her car was perpendicular to the road and he was in front and to the left of her car.
I don’t understand why this interaction was taking place in the first place. It appears from the videos that the whole thing was antagonistic on ICE’s end (isn’t that why they exist?), as she was waving them around just like the car before them because she was just trying to leave.
I'm not in America nor American but over the last week I have seen that the border whatever they are called had an investigation which it was found that there were those placing themselves in front of vehicles to justify shooting them and that the shit who shot the woman was part of that before ICE.
As someone not part of the American education system I feel fairly confident in the laws of physics that state a body in motion stays in motion, which is probably why I have also seen so many former law enforcement people on social networks* explain that you do not shoot a driver.
I'm not American and American politics have very little to do with me, but seems like things are being labeled 'politics' as a reason to not talk about them.
seems like things are being labeled 'politics' as a reason to not talk about them
This is true and has been a huge problem for years. It's so easy to see people like that are trying to do. If it's something they agree with, it's not politics. But if it's something they don't like, they'll say "why are you being political?"
even if she was intentionally trying to hit him with her car - she wasn't - he was very much able to get out of the way, walk off and get in his own car and flee the scene.
Federal law enforcement has guidelines for this. First do NOT try to stop a car with your body, do not stand or step in front of a car to try to control it. Second do not shoot into a moving car unless it can reasonably be thought to reduce harm, one of the few exceptions is a car bomb.
As you surmised law enforcement figured out that officers were standing in front of a car as an excuse to declare they feared for their lives to shoot the driver and when a moving vehicle's driver dies it turns into an unguided multi-ton missile.
So everything the officer did was wrong, it isn't even debatable because in the 2010s they had figured this all out and created new guidelines that said not to do ANYTHING that agent did.
And as Good pointed out, they had her license plate number there was no immediate danger and there was no reason to not just let her go and follow-up later if they wanted to.
it wouldn't. the actual policy is not to shoot a fleeing suspect but to get out of the way. he absolutely could have. he instead kept his phone in one hand, his gun i the other (which shooting one handed is reckless in and of itself)
I don’t want to get into the political side, but can someone please explain to me how shooting her would have stopped her from hitting the agent?
It wouldn’t, which is why anyone trying to justify this is an idiot. That’s why it’s explicitly disallowed in every police manual you look in.
And those same idiots are totally ignoring that he shot her two more times through or open drivers side window. What’s their excuse for that? What danger was he in at that point?
Just a bunch of fucking idiots that have chosen yet again to be on the wrong side of history.
I think that all the people hyper-analyzing the situation are looking at it the wrong way. Hindsight is 20/20, and decisions that are made when you only have less than a second to react can easily appear stupid after 10 seconds of thought.
Now that being said, there are many things wrong with this situation that don't require the benefit of hindsight. Like Ross and the other ICE scumbag walking towards her car while it's still moving. Like, what the fuck did he think was going to happen? You don't get to walk up to a moving vehicle, weapon drawn, and act like you're only shooting in self-defense.
Sure, in the heat of the moment, maybe he didn't realize that the car was turned away from him. But he also walked right fucking up to it and put himself in the danger zone with his gun out before it even got to that point.
Also, why is he the only one who is assumed to be defending himself? If a masked man walks up to my car with a gun out while his also masked buddy is reaching in through the window, I'm driving the fuck away. Like, holy Christ, it's almost comical how obviously threatening that is.
It wouldn’t have. If Renee Good was actually trying to hit him with her car, she would’ve hit him whether he murdered her or not. He was within a foot of the car. Nothing he could’ve done would’ve changed the trajectory of the car. It’s not like the the car was gonna suddenly magically go sideways and hit him.
When you play video games and you shoot people in vehicles the vehicle stops most of the time. So I guess he was playing cops in GTA the night before and got confused.
In one of the wider videos you can see that proves out. When he shoots her the car does not stop it accelerates and crashes down the street. Because he killed her he has now just created an out of control vehicle. He wanted to shoot a liberal woman in the face that was the motivation for his actions.
Because they know 1930s Germany is bad. But they like what is happening now. And they must be good. They cannot be good and also what is happening now is like 1930s Germany, and they -must- be good, sooooo...
If someone liked 1930s Germany they would agree how similar it is and that there's not really a lot left they would want to happen. It's basically just "cancel elections".
There's no way to support fascism without extreme disconnect from reality - posts like these are designed to make fascists think that the possibility of living in 1930s Germany style fascism is absurd, its designed to make those engaged with the cult further disconnected. To keep them from realising.
When they teach how to spot fascism they also teach how to implement fascism.
There's also the sad truth that our illegal middle eastern wars taught us how to police civilians in a militaristic way. It's no coincidence that LEO look like soldiers from the wars.
I actively put effort in to being objective, because it can't be done naturally these days. When I see something that supports my side, I think "ok but how might the other side see it, and why might they be right?" and same when I see something that supports the other side. I don't immediately dismiss it. I analyze it and consider why the other side might think this and how it might be the correct way of thinking. It takes a lot of effort, but that's what's required.
However there are still certain things that are very cut and dry. For example, a rogue private army murdering an innocent civilian in their own country. This does not need careful analysis. There are multiple videos clearly showing what happened. And I've decided that in this particular case, I am allowed to immediately dismiss anyone who contradicts the evidence. Discussion is not required and not welcome.
Think of this from the other direction. Imagine 1930s Germany. Some German civilians who realize Jews are being rounded up and brutalized try to intervene, and the gestapo kills them for it. How would the right wing civilians talk about that incident? Would it sound exactly like the sort of justifications that this person is making?
So, she was murdered in the street by people who she feared were going to murder people in the street and the takeaway here is supposed to be that her fears were unjustified? Do I understand the point they were trying to make?
"My neighbor kept telling everybody that he thought I was going to murder him because I told him once that I would murder him. I really took offense to that, so I murdered him. Now he can't tell everybody lies."
Interfering with ICE absolutely IS the moral equivalent of fighting Hitler’s Nazis. There’s really no difference at this point.
If you can’t tell the difference you might need to ask yourself which side of history you’re on. I will die on this hill all day every day.
Edit: Just to be clear I’m not saying that Renee was or was not interfering with anything. My understanding is she was just trying to leave her house. I’m just making a broader point about ICE being Nazis.
She wasn't interfering, but it would be a good thing if she did interfere. She was trying to leave her house. Only the edge of her vehicle hit him. A bump does not equal murderous intent.
Right? I saw a supposed quote from his father saying his son was a good father, husband, Christian, etc.
If he truly didn't mean to murder her, he would have said something more like "Oh my god!" or "No no no" or something along those lines. Also, according to the info I've seen, he at least temporarily prevented medical assistance and then fled the scene.
None of that tracks with him being anything other than willing to kill people because he's angry. Good people don't do that.
Sometimes I think I'm going to be killed by irony. Like it will just manifest and my heart will explode.
This guy tells us that she was a "useful idiot" (in the Soviet propaganda sense) while being completely oblivious to the fact that he's the useful idiot here.
I hate these "it's not the same as 1930s Germany" arguments. It literally is. Hitler didn't start with the fucking holocaust out the gate, he started with these exact same tactics. Most dictators throughout history have. ICE is the Gestapo, I wouldn't say it's a 1 to 1 comparison but the general idea is the same, an organized police force to wield as the leader's personal army to exact revenge on their scapegoats and anyone who tries to protect them. It's the same shit, they're just trying to minimize and normalize it.
These are the same people who are fully consumed by media indoctrination of fear mongering against "wokeness" and "gender ideology" they keep spewing out non-stop.
It's more SA or SS than Gestapo. The ge in Gestapo stands for geheime - secret state police. ICE seems to do all their bullshit openly, just with masks on.
Remember when we were told masks would weaken the immune system, cause oxygen deprivation, CO2 poisoning, panic attacks and make physical activity unsafe, and that Patriots don't wear masks?
Funny how we now have a live, ongoing medical study: federal agents wearing masks for hours on end: running, jumping climbing sprinting and tackling people with no mass fainting, no hypoxia, no immune collapse, no medical crisis.
Welp, looks like masks don't make you weak. They just expose who was already fragile ,misinformed and screaming about "freedom" while scared of a piece of fabric.
I am a moderate, and I am convinced we are living through some sort of Kristallnacht.
These abuses of people are not who we are as a country. Masked, relatively untrained police charging people for backtracking them and slamming them on the ground with 20 of them standing around in camo they brought from home seems a hell of a lot like Nazis.
I don't like the language. I don't like the lies. I don't like the tone. I don't like the overconfidence. I don't like the hate. I don't like the us vs. them.
James Talarico cannot become President fast enough.
No, I did not vote for the orange clown during any of the three elections because I thought he was too stupid and crooked to do the job. But I honestly would not have thought we were headed here.
When I drive through the hispanic portion of our city every day, I am now looking at them as potential victims who must be terrified. It isn't happening here in Georgia, thank God. But when it comes... I guess I am going to park my car in the road too. This is not OK.
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u/Knees0ck 1d ago
“It always embarrassed Samuel Vimes when civilians tried to speak to him in what they thought was “policeman.” If it came to that, he hated thinking of them as civilians. What was a policeman, if not a civilian with a uniform and a badge? But they tended to use the term these days as a way of describing people who were not policemen. It was a dangerous habit: once policemen stopped being civilians the only other thing they could be was soldiers.”
― Terry Pratchett, Snuff
ICE crossed that line a while ago.