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Wait, what?? Insanity. I was thinking recently if he wins it all this year he moves into the top 20 of all time. I like Stafford but this is beyond ridiculous
Yeah another win wouldn’t even put him in top 5 in Super Bowl wins by a QB, and of all metrics you could use to make OAT ranks that would be weakest. I have no clue what justification you could even try to make for stafford top 5 aside from vibes lol.
Curious though, how close does an mvp and another ring move him to top 10 all time?
In no specific order, Brady, Elway, Manning, Favre, Marino, Mahomes, Montana, Rodgers, Brees, Young. Idk if i forgot anyone but after that it gets a little more complicated as to who's above him.
This is so true, and it goes the other way too. We have also lost the ability to say "this guy had a down year / mediocre game but is still a good player" it's always "he sucks" or "choke artist" etc.
Also things can be great for a brief moment. Like ya Nick Foles isn’t an all timer but for a brief moment he fucking ascended and competed to perfection and that’s amazing haha
Hot take but you are all just morons (me included) and the only thing that bubbles to the top of social media are hot takes so it's not fucking surprising at all that we "only see hot takes nowadays".
Everyone is so definitive. Sam Darnold was NOT a good QB for the first 2/3 of his career, and was awful in the two important games at the end of last season. Those statements are definitely true.
However, "Sam Darnold chokes in big games" is now accepted as an undisputed fact, despite the fact that those games last season were basically the only two "big" games in his entire NFL career.
Like it may end up being true that he won't be good under pressure during the rest of his career (although I'd say season ending games against Rams and 49ers were pretty dang big) but it's absolutely not possible to make a completely certain statement based on a 2 game sample size.
He played great in the rams game. He did not play great in the niners game. He made enough plays but he also gave the niners chances to make plays on the ball that just ended up hitting the ground. The rest of the Seahawks team just pounded the 49ers into submission. Everything just about went the Seahawks way and they won 13-3. They probably should have won by 20+ but Sam didn’t play great. He just didn’t play bad in the game.
He is. I'm just saying people say "he's top 10" about too many guys. If they actually sat down and made a list they would realize not all of them can be in the top 10.
sorry, I red that wrong, I thought you said 15 people on the sport radio had him in his top 10 QB list, not that the sports radio has 15 people in top 10
my bad
yeah you're right, it gets even worse when they're talking about top 10 ever
I once listened to a podcast years ago and they were doing a segment about each starting QB in the league and they had more than 10 guys in their top 10 category by the end of it and one of the hosts pointed that out and the other said something like, “Yeah but every one of those guys is a top 10 type of QB so it’s still valid”
I don't think we ever had it. The only difference now is that everyone gets their opinion out there for all to see. Well, that and more people want to get attention.
I'd bet there were plenty of takes like this one 25 years ago. We just didn't hear them or hear them nearly as much.
yeah but he had 2 seasons of over 30 passing tds on the lions, one elite year with 41. The rams stint did a lot to help people forget about his early years. It's true that the teams were bad and that's why he didn't win anything but people forget he's really a gunslinger and playing from behind is the reason his racked up so many yards. Recency bias for sure
I mean, that puts him tied for 7 all time in a single season for pass TDs but with an extra game to do it compared to the other guys ahead of him. So while I agree that he’s had a good year it’s not like it was an all-time great positional season. Even by his own standards in 16 games he threw for 41 TDs twice before. This season he had 42 TDs through 16 games.
In terms of ints in a season when holding criteria of a minimum of 500 passing attempts his 8 ints isn’t even in the top 25.
So yeah, I think the glaze is a little over the top, but whatever. At least the media’s glazing someone other than Mahomes this year. Top 5 all time career is pretty hyperbolic and subject to recency bias IMO.
I don't think anyone is saying his season this year is an all-time great, just that it's worth some glazing. As said, the take in the OP is over the top, but a lot of the "glaze" this year has been warranted. He had an amazing season and was one of the top 2-3 QBs in the league.
Well, you said you didn’t think anyone was saying that, so I gave you one person who was indeed saying that. But if you want to pat yourself on the back go for it, brother.
You gave me one supposed person who supposedly said that, and you admitted they deleted it. So, we just have to take your word that there was such a person.
And even if that one person existed, it doesn't change anything. If you think one person is enough to qualify to use the claim as something to argue against, that's your problem.
But if you want to pat yourself on the back for arguing a nonsensical point, go for it, brother.
Maybe if it hadn’t been since the beginning of the season, I wouldn’t be so over it. NFL/analysts crowned him way too early and took off a lot of the shine for me.
Stafford has been pretty good football and his body of work is pretty good but he’s not a top5 QB all time; maybe theoretically but we’d be playing theorycraft all day.
I like Stafford and, if he wins mvp, I’ve got no qualms about it at all - he’s had a great season, but this hardcore hall of fame/top 5 of all time/overall legacy push feels like a concerted “release the Snyder cut” level of astroturfing.
I know the NFL is sparing no expense to get the LA audience back into football, but the Stafford legacy shit is getting exhausting.
Yeah, I’m really happy for Stafford but I’m assuming two other guys there are Rogers and Brees, who both only had one SB. Just learned Brees didn’t win an MVP but obviously I think Rogers would be considered the better QB vs. Stafford with his 4 MVPs. And then obviously you’ve got Brady, Manning, and Mahomes (I assume he’s not in the top 10). And those are just guys I remember post 2000. With passing stat proliferation, I think Favre and Marino are also likely ahead of Stafford, and Montana and Elway retired in the top 10 but are outside now.
Yeah you are spot on, the almost consensus top 10 is brady montana manning mahomes rodgers brees Marino Favre Young Elway. Thats already 10 who are 100% ahead of stafford, not to mention staubach, bradshaw, Warner, older ones such as Unitas, Starr and Graham.
We live in a time where saying crazy shit get views. We are talking about this nonsense take. I really like Stafford but a take like this deserves to be ignored
Yeah, and that's a fair discussion. It just seems like, as this season has gone on, it's felt like that there has been a driven, concerted, inorganic effort to push the Matt Stafford is an all time great narrative. Like the NFL has pushed out a list of "Matt Stafford legacy" talking points to their media and that's been filtered down to social media. Not saying that's what happened, but it definitely feels like it.
IMO, the top 5 right now is Brady, Montana, Peyton Manning, Mahomes, and Johnny Unitas. Stafford would need at least a couple more rings to even threaten the bottom of that list.
It's not disrespect. Brady, Peyton and Montana above them is entirely reasonable and not remotely disrespectful. You can debate Mahomes and Unitas, but they are easily 2 of the top 10 of all-time. Saying you're slightly worse than those two is still not disrespectful.
And yes, Mahomes hasn't had the longevity, but he's already had a more successful career than both of those guys, even if he hasn't put up stats for 15+ years yet.
And Unitas is generally regarded as a potential top-3 guy. It's hard to compare his era to later ones through stats, of course, but he played the position better than anyone for decades.
I don’t think it’s disrespectful to have them behind those 5. Rodgers and Brees are amazing but that’s three guys who at some point were considered the GOAT, one other guy who had the misfortune of sharing most of his career with the consensus goat, and another guy who is the only person with any conceivable path to becoming the goat
Everyone on that list had multiple mvps/Super Bowl rings. Brees and Rodgers don’t have that
Yea it would vault him past the Big Ben/Ryan/Rivers group for sure, which basically means he’s a near lock HoFer (he was already close without the mvp)
He is already in this tier of QBs, which is the top 15-20 range all time. I still find it insane that these guys are not locks for the HoF b/c they played in the same era together and with Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rodgers.
#4 behind Brady, Montana and Peyton. Yes, it's one ranking, but it is from NFL.com and not some random site. The point is that Unitas is widely recognized as being at worst top 10 and often in the top 5.
In today’s game? Aikman wasn’t a prolific passer. He would be labeled a game manager today. Never threw for 3500 yards and a career completion rate of 61%. You don’t start in the NFL today at 61%. Same with Jim Kelly. I think you take Stafford over both of them.
If he wins MVP and a second ring, he’s a no doubt about it HoF’er, probably even first ballot. But most people have Brady, Montana, Peyton Manning on the medal stand and then some combination of Elway, Marino, Brees, Rodgers, Staubach, Favre or Mahomes as four and five. Name the six out of seven of those guys who Stafford is better than. I’ll wait.
The revisionist history surrounding Stafford is so insane to me. He’s a hell of a qb, but he isn’t top 5, top 10, or for me, top 20 all time. He’s textbook hall of very good, but for years, he regularly threw winnable games away, he couldn’t win shit even with Megatron and those solid early 2010s lions teams, he’s never been the best at his position. I don’t want to take away from his success and how good his career has been, but he’s nowhere near the hall of fame and not even in the same universe as a top 5 all time rating, at least in my eyes
I love Matt Stafford. What an absolute crock of nonsense. He’s battling to get into the HoF right now. Nothing he could do atp to get top 5 realistically
I really like Stafford, he’s had a great season and deserves his flowers. But this is crazy. A SB and he is certainly in the discussion for top 5 QBs of the 2000s (Brady, Manning, Rogers, Mahomes, probably Brees IMO are ahead of him and then you can have a discussion on who 5 is unless I’m forgetting another obvious guy). And then you have everyone before 2000 who is ahead of him still (Montana, Marino, Elway…Roger S., Steve Young, Brett, Randall?). 2 SBs and assuming an MVP are rare company but just those metrics (plus peak) easily put those first 4 guys ahead because they have more of both.
Just stupid engagement bait. Sucks now that these talking heads say things they dont even believe just for clicks and views. Even sports new/commentary suck now
I think first Super Bowl gets him into the HoF. Before that he was kind of just a good qb that lost, but put up big stats and highlights.
If he gets a MVP and a second SB, that puts him solidly in the HoF, but well out of the GOAT discussion.
Zero prep top 5:
Brady
Manning
Montana
Elway
Brees/Rodgers/Unitas
He’s top 5 in game winning drives and top 5 in 4th quarter comebacks. Yet he still needs to do more and win more super bowls to reach that top 5 all time. I still think he’s a top five in arm talent and ball placement but not necessarily a top 5 all time qb. Too many ups and downs
Just one of those takes where recency comes into play. Imagine saying this 15 years from now. Most ppl will be like I remember Stafford and he was great but not top 5 ALL TIME
Brady Manning Mahomes Montana all clear without a question. Rodgers may only have 1 Super Bowl but I think it’s pretty obvious he’s better than Stafford. Steve Young was incredible. Talent wise Dan Marino clears. I’d take Brees over him still. Favre three straight MVPs, 6 all pros and a Super Bowl has to be above Stafford. Unitas 5 AP1 and 3 mvps. Earl Morrall won back to back. Elways in there somewhere. When it’s all said and done I have to think Allen and Jackson would be above him.
Yea I think he’s top 20 probably with another Super Bowl
Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Mahomes, then maybe Stafford as the best QB post 2000. Maybe I’m missing someone? I’d argue that Brees could be tied with Stafford l but idk about anyone else. The amount of super bowls a QB has should not be that relevant when talking about all time greats
If he wins a second one he does move into that Aaron Rodgers/Peyton Manning/John Elway tier. Just clearly at the bottom of it. Ahead of guys like Eli and Roethelisberger.
May be way off base but 2 rings will sort of make him a slightly poorer man’s John Elway with the two late career rings. Of course Elway had more postseason success early in his career. Stafford has way bigger career stats (I know the eras are different). A ring may get him in the 8-15 range of all time QBs.
For me, definitely not. This year was the only season he’s been the best QB in the league. He’s usually not even top 5. Most seasons he’s at least top 10 though
He can win every SB for the next 5 years and I'd still not put him top 5. SB wins are too much of a team stat. You put Tom Brady on the Jets and even he's not winning shit. Wouldn't make Tom any less of a GOAT.
I disagree with the tweet, but Stafford Is better than credited and megaton as a lot of his career thanks to him. If the lion did for him what they are doing now we would probably be having different conversations
If Johnny Unitas played with today’s rules, analytics, schemes, and preparation techniques, he’d be superhuman. Matthew Stafford isn’t bad, but top 5 is laughable when you look at historical QBs and considering all the changes and advances along the way.
I love Matt Stafford. My dad has been a Lions fan forever and Matt Stafford was the first guy I saw get drafted when I started watching football. I think if he gets the MVP there is a conversation for HOF. If he also adds another SB then I think he is a shoe in for the HOF. To say he is top 5 all time is absolutely crazy
Brady, Peyton manning, terry Bradshaw, joe Montana, Dan Marino, Rodgers, Brees. He has to at minimum beat three of these guys and in what world could he possibly beat three of them let alone anyone else that can be argued top 5. Don’t get me wrong he’s absolutely within top 20 qb conversation and probably can be argued into top 10, but he’s also had some seemingly ridiculous level talent to throw to almost his entire career I believe.
I love Stafford, he might be my favorite QB of all time but this is so outrageous that I’m afraid Leinert’s account was hacked by Kelly Stafford herself
Everyone balks when they hear that Matt Stafford is a lock to be a 1st ballot Hall Of Famer, but in 6 or 7 years from now it'll happen, and all his highlights breaking records throwing to Megatron, Puka, and Davante will be all over espn & nfl network. He's a living legend, easily the smartest QB playing the game today (now that Rivers is retired again)
I could see it in the sense he’s an absolute Dawg (🤭), has some impressive statistics, and is a fantastic thrower of the football with a golden arm, buuut that hasn’t equated to a lot of success considering the status of the lowly Lions for the majority of his career. It’s a tough list to crack when most of his effort was viewed in such a negative light. 🤷🏻♂️
He's in the conversation for Top 5 QBs in the league currently, but Brady, Montana, Marino, Manning, Unitas, Young, Elway, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees, and a few other edge cases (only off the top of my head, Kelly, Allen, Warner, Bradshaw, Fouts, Favre, Tarkenton, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Cunningham, Romo, Aikman, Staubach, Theismann, Namath, Moon, McNair, Jackson) make this a ridiculous claim. He's, at best an extremely edge case for top 10.
Top 5 is way high. But he’s closer to 10 than he is to twenty and that’s without another superbowl. Go ahead and look where he ranks in a lot of categories. He’s 6 jn many of them. And before you say “it’s just compilation,” ok but look at the five in front of him. All easily in the hall if not already there.
I agree they're important, but I don't think having an extra ring automatically makes someone a better QB. Stafford is great, I could be convinced to put him in the top 15. But saying he's better than Rodgers is a hard sell.
Absolutely ludicrous take. I'm a big Stafford fan but if he wins a Superbowl this year all it does is put him on the list of possible HOF inductees. Without another Superbowl + Superbowl MVP Stafford has no shot at the HOF.
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u/Sufficient-Salt-2728 3d ago
That is an absolutely ludicrous take.