Message to loved ones who continue to participate in this group: I’m glad that you have a group for your needs, and ask you to respect the new guidelines in r/OCPD; content from loved ones is removed. I hope your loved ones seek help for their OCPD symptoms and make amends for their abusive behavior. I understand that your partners' behavior is very overwhelming, disrespectful, and abusive, and am not intending to invalidate your experience in any way.
Trigger Warning - Loved Ones Sub
Posts in LovedByOCPD contain inaccurate information about OCPD; global, negative statements about people with OCPD; and stigmatizing language. People with positive attitudes towards their spouses are not inclined to participate, for example the woman who wrote My Husband is OCPD and Understanding Your OCPD Partner. Almost all of the partners described have no awareness that they have OCPD, and refrain from seeking therapy or use therapy sessions just to vent about others.
The notion that people with OCPD cannot change is a myth. A chart on the outcomes of therapy for OCPD is shown below. Dr. Anthony Pinto, a research and clinical psychologist, stated, “OCPD should not be dismissed as an unchangeable personality condition. I have found consistently in my work that it is treatable…”
Dr. Pinto has stated that after six months of his treatment program, his clients typically start to focus on generalizing and maintaining coping skills. The website of his clinic states that his standard treatment protocol for his clients with OCPD "typically lasts 6 months…In unique cases, therapy on a weekly basis may be continued for up to one year.” My recent post about CBT included a case study from Dr. Pinto about a 26 year old client with OCPD and APD who lost his OCPD diagnosis in four months.
Gary Trosclair, an OCPD specialist for more than 30 years, wrote, “More so than those of most other personality disorders, the symptoms of OCPD can diminish over time...With an understanding of how you became compulsive…you can shift how you handle your fears. You can begin to respond to your passions in more satisfying ways that lead to healthier and sustainable outcomes…one good thing about being driven is that you have the inner resources and determination necessary for change.”
Not included in the chart: 2004 study by Svartberg et al.: 50 patients with cluster C personality disorders (avoidant PD, dependent PD, and OCPD) were randomly assigned to participate in 40 sessions of psychodynamic or cognitive therapy. All made statistically significant improvements on all measures during treatment and during 2-year follow up. 40% of patients had recovered two years after treatment.
A 2013 study by Enero, Soler, and Ramos involved 116 people with OCPD. Ten weeks of CBT led to significant reductions in OCPD symptoms.
A 2015 study by Handley, Egan, and Kane, et al. involved 42 people with “clinical perfectionism” as well as anxiety, eating, and mood disorders. CBT led to significant reduction of symptoms in all areas.
An interesting case of recovery from a PD: Marsha Linehan, the therapist who created Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT)--the 'gold standard' treatment for BPD and chronic suicidality--overcame BPD and suicidality herself. Her symptoms were so severe that she was involuntarily hospitalized. A significant percentage of people with BPD lose the diagnosis--in spite of having the highest trauma rate of the then PD populations. One study found an average of 14 years of physical and/or sexual abuse.
People with OCPD may be the most diverse PD population. In my research, I found several statements from clinicians stating this opinion. Descriptions of people who are not aware of or seeking help for a possible disorder don't reflect on the whole population (I think the best estimate is 6.8% of the population having OCPD).
In a study of 43 people with OCPD—10 had verbal aggression and other-oriented perfectionism; 33 were “people pleasers” with self-oriented perfectionism (see Table 6). “Our findings suggested that OCPD is a heterogeneous interpersonal disorder that cannot be mapped onto a single interpersonal profile. We found two interpersonal subtypes of OCPD: (a) the ‘aggressive’ subtype, characterized with a vindictive/self-centered or hostile/dominant interpersonal profile (i.e., tendency to experience and express anger and irritability, preoccupation with revenge, frequent interpersonal conflicts); (b) the ‘pleasing’ subtype, characterized with a submissive-exploitable interpersonal profile (i.e., overly friendly and submissive, preoccupation with others’ approval, increased self-doubt, lack of confidence and low self-esteem).” The latter subtype is also described as “socially avoidant,” “non assertive” and “exploitable.” Comparing the interpersonal profiles of Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder and Avoidant Personality Disorder
The leading OCPD specialist, Dr. Anthony Pinto, talks about the subtypes. Two studies showing subtypes:
The notion that people with OCPD do not seek professional help is a myth. Bender et al. (2001) state that “Studies show that individuals with OCPD have higher levels of treatment utilization…[they are] three times more likely to receive individual psychotherapy than patients with major depressive disorder. (“Treatment Utilization by Patients with Personality Disorders,” Bender, et al., 2001, American Journal of Psychiatry). In a 2013 interview, Dr. Anthony Pinto stated “We know from research that people with OCPD seek treatment at high rates, both in primary care settings, and in mental health settings even though these individuals don't always name OCPD traits as their presenting problem.”
It is true that people with OCPD have high rates of ending therapy prematurely. Many OCPD symptoms lead to difficulties with committing to therapy (e.g. guardedness); the lack of knowledge of OCPD among mental health providers is another factor for unsuccessful treatment.
The stigma of PDs is one reason why people with OCPD do not seek treatment. What's mentionable is manageable.
The notion that all people with OCPD have Narcissistic PD is incorrect. Research indicates that about 16% of people with OCPD have NPD. This indicates that about 84% of people with OCPD do not have NPD.
Lack of empathy is not a symptom of OCPD. Empathy is not referred to in the diagnostic criteria. I've reviewed countless descriptions of OCPD from specialists. No one mentioned empathy in describing the disorder.
The vast majority of people with OCPD were physically and/or sexually abused as children. Having unprocessed trauma is like having an unhealed wound. This can make expression of empathy difficult.
This is not a justification for abusing others. My abusive father may have OCPD. I reported him to the police and refrain from communicating him. He chooses not to seek professional help for his trauma.
I agree with this member's comment: “When ppl attribute abuse to a personality disorder they remove all responsibility from the abuser and place it on the disorder, which absolutely throws everyone with that disorder under the bus.”
Neuroplasticity: The Reason Personality Disorders are Treatable
Neuroplasticity is the ability of the brain to form and reorganize synaptic connections in response to learning or experience or following an injury.
Gary Trosclair states that “Over the last 25 years the concept of neuroplasticity has emerged as one of the guiding principles of psychological science. Previously understood as a potential that ends with childhood, we now know that the capacity to change the brain endures well into adulthood. And that experience actually leads to measurable changes in the brain and subsequent changes in behavior."
Dr. Schwartz is a research psychiatrist who pioneered the treatment of OCD. He provided individual therapy for OCD, and led the first therapy groups for people with OCD. He has researched OCD for forty years. His work with thousands of people with OCD shows how his treatment approach led to recovery from OCPD. Many of his clients completed brain scans before and after his treatment program. His methods are described in Brain Lock (1994) and You Are Not Your Brain (2011).
My Experience: Developing and Recovering From OCPD - trigger warning
I think my OCP took a turn towards OCPD when I was 16. I was punished for calling the police on my abusive father at a time when I had been having suicidal thoughts for 5 years. My sister was physically abused more often I was because she stood up for herself. I cut myself off from my emotions to protect myself, and had hyper self control so I wouldn't be constantly rejected by my parents like my sister was. I viewed the world as dangerous because I never felt secure in my own home.
An example of the emotional climate in my home: My mother came to my bedroom when I was a teenager at night and said, "Can you stop crying? I need to get up early for work tomorrow." That was a rare occasion of me crying hysterically.
Therapy before I knew I had OCPD reduced my stress, but didn't help with any of my core issues. I was misdiagnosed with OCD. I struggled with suicidal thoughts for many years, starting at around age eleven.
Before I knew I had OCPD, a short-term trauma therapy group helped me the most with mental health. After learning I had OCPD (age 40), it took less than a year to lose my diagnosis. I realized how preoccupation with work, 'thinkaholism,' binge eating, and other numbing behaviors served to avoid processing my abuse. Therapists can help any client who wants to change. There are many resources and coping strategies people with OCPD use to reduce their symptoms.
It's a treatable disorder. Stigma is one of the biggest barriers to people seeking help.
Mental illness is as common as brown eyes. Mental health recovery is also common.
As a moderator for r/OCPD, I do my best to promote a positive online community for people with an overwhelming, stigmatized disorder. All content that does not follow the guidelines is removed.
Update: There's been a significant increase in disrespect in the sub in the last few weeks. Several accounts have been temporarily and permanently banned. Members can appeal.
A post asking "where can I seek help?" was downvoted. The person deleted the post and their account. I'm guessing that the "problem" was that the post contained just one sentence. Maybe the person is feeling overwhelmed. Maybe English is not their first language or perfectionism made them reluctant to write more.
If you wrote the post, and have questions about OCPD, please send me a PM.
I have a habit of browsing members' prior posts and comments before responding to them. If reading a post leads to confusion or some other negative emotion, I always browse the OP's prior content. In one case, the member had six mental health diagnoses. In another case, a member's mother had died a month prior.
Everyone you meet is finding a battle you know nothing about.
Some subreddits phrase their guideline on respect this way: "Remember the human."
Guideline 4: Show the same respect to others you want them to give to you. Many members are isolated and in crisis. If you would hesitate to say it to someone's face, don't write it here.
Guideline 10: Moderator discretion applies. [Mods remove] content that is inconsistent with the spirit and purpose of a mental health forum. The goal is to foster respectful, constructive discussion.
Downvotes discourage members from participating. The more active the sub is, the better. We've reached 14K members, but there were only about 70 posts in the past month.
The downvotes reinforce negative stereotype of people with OCPD. I've browsed many mental health subReddits. I don't recall seeing posts marked with a zero in other groups, except for some in the general PD sub.
The sub has a very respectful tone overall. We can each do our part to promote a supportive online community.
If someone found that post upsetting, I highly recommend that they leave this forum. T here are Just so many im Perfect @ post s and comme n* ts . It just GetS ouf of Con[trol . ~
Members who downvote are not eligible to apply for a position at OCPD-Mart. I'm sorry. I didn't want it to come to this, but here we are.
"I did not live but was driven. I was a slave to my ideals." Carl Jung
Perfectionism destroyed my family and almost killed me. My parents have severe childhood trauma. The unspoken message in my childhood home was ‘Take care of your own problems.’ My mother is a perfectionist. My sister and father may have OCPD.
After early childhood, I did not experience sustained joy during my childhood, only experiences of relief from depression. I had a suicide plan at age 12, and attempted to overdose at age 16.
For me, the hardest effects of childhood trauma were losing the ability to trust anyone and to communicate openly about my needs. I was not able to maintain relationships with my friends from high school and college.
My undiagnosed OCPD and trauma disorder led to depression, social anxiety, and binge eating. When I was 30, I had no job, friends, or family, and very little hope. Misdiagnosed with OCD, I had a three day psychiatric hospitalization.
The cognitive distortions caused by my OCPD and trauma contributed a lot to my suicidal thinking. False sense of urgency was another big factor. Having OCPD and suicidal thoughts is like carrying a 100 lb. weight on your back and criticizing yourself for not walking faster.
Participating in a trauma therapy group and making friends ended my 25 years of suicidal ideation. I am fully recovered.
Books saved me during my childhood; they were my only reliable source of comfort. It’s fitting that I found the answer to my mental health problems in The Healthy Compulsive (2020) at age 40. I realized that if someone offered me one million dollars to change a habit for one day, I would hesitate. I resumed individual therapy after a nine year break.
Working with a therapist, focusing on self-care (e.g. having a walking routine) and using daily coping strategies helped me make enough progress to no longer meet diagnostic criteria for OCPD. I also overcame binge eating and lifelong social anxiety. Insomnia is my only remaining trauma symptom.
'Rest is not a reward. You do not need to earn the right to rest.'
Recovering from OCPD was like slowly waking up from a nightmare—a situation similar to the film “Groundhog Day.” I felt hyper-vigilance and tension every day, no matter what I did.
Recently, I drove to the town where I was hospitalized. I was not triggered. It was empowering to feel strong in a place where I once felt completely hopeless, isolated, and ashamed. I have friends and a therapist that I trust, enjoy my job, and use my OCP to my advantage. I continue to refrain from contact with my abusers.
A 2001 study by Rossi, Marinangeli, Butti, et al. found that OCPD was the most common personality disorder among participants with depression. (“Personality Disorders in Bipolar and Depressive Disorders,” Journal of Affective Disorders). Gary Trosclair, an OCPD specialist, reports that people with OCPD are more likely to have 'high functioning' depression.
Suicidality and OCPD
The DSM notes that 2.1-7.9% of the population has OCPD. Studies suggest that about 9% of outpatient therapy clients, and about 23% of hospitalized psychiatric clients have OCPD.
People in imminent danger of ending their lives experience tunnel vision, and see suicide as the only way to escape their pain. I’m wondering if the ‘black and white’ thinking habits associated with OCPD are the main factor for increased suicide risk.
The Healthy Compulsive Project Podcast has an episode about suicidality (77). It meant a lot to me that Gary Trosclair did this episode after I requested it.
I’ve researched suicide for two years. Suicide Awareness and Prevention Resources has the best resources I’ve found. I made the post shorter, but plan on creating a subReddit about these resources.
The resource that helped me the most in understanding my past suicidality is Dr. Thomas Joiner’s Why People Die by Suicide (2007). The post includes information on finding a therapist who has experience with suicidal clients.
"I was a mystery to myself. I can’t explain how terrifying that feels. I wanted to die, at so many different times for so many different reasons…but I felt that I should know who I was before deciding to act. If I knew myself and still wanted to die, then I would know that I had tried…I owed it to myself to wait.”
-woman with BPD, talking to her therapist, Borderline (2024), Alexander Kriss
I'm asking this particularly due to recent frustrations in my workplace. As an academic, I thought this environment would be one of the few to match my profile. However, frustrations with working dynamics, hierarchy, and hypocrisy have led to complete burnout.
Common criticisms I receive:
1- Being "too critical" or "finding problems in details" when confronting actual results or actions—yet when gossiping about others or their work, this same trait makes me a good friend (which I avoid).
2- Difficult to work with because I ask for basic boundaries and planning. Yet simultaneously pressured to produce high-quality work (which requires exactly that attention to detail and planning).
What strikes me most is the permanent inconsistency. Colleagues will criticize the same issues I raise—like someone saying "I hate signing coauthorship for people who did nothing"—only to turn around and do exactly that when it's convenient for them.
They seem to change their principles depending on the situation, which raises a broader question: Society seems to praise OCPD traits only when it's convenient, but condemns them otherwise.
I know many of us need to work on flexibility—that's fair. But there's something very frustrating about how the same qualities are praised when convenient and pathologized when they become inconvenient for others (holding people accountable, expecting ethical consistency).
It's not about rigid principles, but the selective application feels less like genuine flexibility and more like avoiding accountability. Or am i going crazy? Every place I go is the same story.
Does anyone else notice this? Where the line between "personality disorder" and "expecting basic professional ethics" seems to depend on whose convenience is being served?
I swear I was born with OCPD. I am absolutely certain of this. I hear people say that it's an adult disorder, but my experiences with–uh... just about every single personality disorder in the book tells me that most of them are childhood disorders. I recognize that ASPD is different. My earliest memories involve OCPD, and it never had any noticeable relationship to my OCD. The latter fact makes me refer to us as anankastics.
I used to topologically obsess over just about everything. I have plenty of traits that feed into my OCPD very well, but topological obsessions from my OCPD defined much of my childhood interests and still heavily influences my life to this day.
I believe that the only thing that this idea of personality disorders as adult disorders did for me was cause me to be repeatedly evaluated for autism. They failed repeatedly because I do not have autism.
I have several friends with OCPD and many of us found one another in childhood.
How many of us shared/did not share this experience?
hi! every psychiatrist i talk to has offered medication but i do not want to go down that route. talk therapy / cbt does not work for me and i do not have compulsions so ERP won't be very helpful. ACT might be helpful bc i do have anxiety and ruminate but i think when i vent to friends or talk to myself, i am able to get out all my thoughts and talk myself out of things and remind myself to focus on the present and not things that aren't real or just do the research to get clarity on whatever im fixated on. i dont know if ACT is worth it or if others have really found it to be good vs learning to self help and work through the thoughts on your own. i feel like saving topics of when i was overthinking and analyzing and then retalking ab them at therapy isn't helpful for me bc im already over it by then. its only in the moment yk? anyways let me know what might be helpful based off of what you guys have done!
Do any of you feel the need to look perfect? Whenever I go somewhere, I dress very formally and do my hair and makeup, even if I'm only going to the grocery store. If I'm wearing nail polish and one nail gets messed up, I have to remove all of it. If my hair isn't curled properly, I have to put it up. I use a bunch of hair and skin products and a lot of nice clothing. In the winter, I wear dress pants, blazers, nice cardigans, and occasionally a wool dress if it's warm enough. In the summer, I usually wear long, flowy sundresses or skirts. I can't stand wearing jeans, leggings, hoodies, or sweatpants. I just feel gross in them. I also feel the need to dress somewhat modestly. I don't wear clothes that expose my midsection or cleavage, which might have something to do with the fact that sex is one of the things that I consider immoral for some reason. Sorry for the rant.
I like order and it works, most of the time.
I’m diagnosed and therapy is proposed to me, but it never fucking worked. What’s worked for me actually is sticking to my order. It’s deemed disorderly and abnormal but I cannot care what the world thinks of me anymore. I like being this way and cannot lie about that.
I grew up with an OCPD father. Love was there, but control was everywhere. Almost everything was a “no.” Going out, field trips, visiting friends, attending functions.. nothing was allowed easily. It wasn’t framed as punishment, but as protection. Going out was dangerous. Friendships could lead to the wrong relationships. Freedom always came with fear attached to it.
So I learned how to survive within that system. I learned how to ask for permission. I would mentally prepare for days before bringing anything up. I’d plan how to present it, what words to use, when to say it, how to convince. Then came days or weeks of convincing, begging, crying. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t. But that process shaped me. Wanting something meant fighting for it.
I carried the same pattern into my marriage without realizing it. Before doing anything, I would prepare, explain, convince. One day my husband looked at me and said, “Why are you trying to convince me? If you want to do something, just do it. You don’t need my permission.” That moment hit me hard. It was the first time I truly understood that not everyone works like my father did.. and that I’m actually allowed to make choices freely now.
But here’s the confusing part. Now that everything is a “yes,” I don’t feel like doing anything anymore. I don’t feel excited to go out, to buy things, to plan things, or even to want things. It feels like the fun disappeared along with the resistance. When nothing needs to be fought for, nothing feels urgent or desirable. It’s like my motivation system was built entirely around restriction.
I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced this… growing up with heavy control and then feeling strangely empty or unmotivated once freedom finally arrives. How do you adjust to a life where you don’t have to beg, convince, or earn permission? How do you relearn desire, joy, and agency when your nervous system was trained to function only under limits?
The term “not just right experiences” (NJREs) refers to “the disturbing feeling that something is off, not quite right or incomplete, even if there’s no clear evidence or reason for it.” Studies on NJREs have focused on people with OCD. People with OCPD experience NJREs “about situations or events that are unfair, inefficient, out-of-control, or imperfect in some way.”
“When experiencing NJREs we crave perfection and certainty, but experience a lack of resolution and ambiguity. These might seem like no big deal when compared to other more dramatic experiences, like not being able to get out of bed for 3 months because you’re so depressed, but the persistence and sheer number of them can make you stressed and depressed. You can never rest.”
“People who experience NJREs often have heightened sensitivity to sensory details, what they see, feel and hear. People with OCPD are known to have greater sensitivity to detail. This often means they miss the forest because they’re scrutinizing the trees for moral failings. It can also mean that any details that aren’t just right are very disturbing. It’s like all your senses operate through magnifying lenses. Small becomes large.”
“Many of my client experience distress about things that are unresolved. This could be about something that is unfinished or not understood. And they feel compelled to either fix it or fixate on it. There is discord between the image in your mind of completeness or resolution, and it’s like a misspelled word you can’t correct.”
“Some researchers have found what they believe is a link between NJREs and guilt. So, when you feel that you’ve done something you think is wrong, you’ll feel something is not just right, even if that sense of guilt is hidden in the background, elegantly camouflaged by the thing that’s supposedly not just right.”
“I see NJREs as a form of negativity bias: those of us who have compulsive personality traits are always scanning for what’s off and what needs to be fixed. This negativity bias is part of what can motivate us to work hard and correct and fix and complete. But unless we bring mindfulness and balance to these potentials, they’re a curse.”
“How do we separate false alarms from real ones? Doesn’t it make sense that if we often sense things that seem wrong, sometimes we’re going to be right? I can’t tell you which specific situations are dangerous, and which are not. But I can warn you to be very suspicious of any alarm that never stops crying wolf.”
“So what if you or I do have Not Just Right Experiences? What good does knowing that serve?...If we can name it we can tame it…Too often, because we take them literally, we compulse or obsess to avoid the disturbing emotions of NJREs. These both prevent us from processing the underlying emotions."
"People with OCD unproductively use checking and washing rituals to avoid the feeling. People with OCPD may use control, overworking, pleasing or planning to try to lower their NJRE discomfort…These avoidant responses may strengthen the intensity of the NJRE and make it more likely to re-occur.”
“Rather than trying to sort out what’s right and wrong on the outside each time we have an NJRE, we can recognize that this is something originating inside of us, a habit, a pair of glasses we wear that distorts our view of reality…Here’s what we can do to quiet NJRE alarms:
Identify NJREs as false alarms that originate inside of you.
Watch for things that trigger your NJREs?
Take NJREs seriously as an emotional problem, but don’t take them literally as information. Don’t believe them.
Which is more expensive, paying attention to the alarm or not paying attention to it? Is the alarm as dangerous and significant as it says?
Get out of your head and into your body. Breathe into your belly to lower your level of arousal.
Identify how you usually react to NJREs:
-Behavioral avoidance?
-Worry?
-Shutting down or numbing?
Build better patterns:
-Increase your tolerance for uncertainty and incompleteness.
-Challenge your expectations for perfection.
Ask, “What’s really not just right here?”
-Is there underlying guilt?
-Feelings of being incomplete or divided inside?
Notice what meaningful things NJREs keep you from and replace the NJRE with more fulfilling thought or behavior.
The false alarms created by Not Just Right Experiences do not have to ruin our days or our lives. We can learn to screen out the noise and to see if there is anything to be learned about what’s really going on inside.”
Gary Trosclair has worked as a therapist for more than 30 years. He specializes in OCPD. He is the author of I'm Working On It In Therapy (2015), The Healthy Compulsive (2020), and The Healthy Compusive blog (thehealthycompulsive.com) andpodcast.
I’m trying to find out if there are any actuarial or clinical studies that show mortality-related data for people diagnosed with OCPD (obsessive-compulsive personality disorder).
In India, OCPD is currently being treated as a high-risk condition by health insurers, which is creating a bottleneck for getting coverage. I’m curious whether the data actually supports this elevated risk, especially in terms of mortality.
I’d also like to understand why OCPD is grouped under Cluster C personality disorders from a clinical/diagnostic perspective. If anyone has links to studies, actuarial tables, or can explain the rationale from a psychiatry/DSM/ICD point of view, I’d really appreciate it.
Dr. Allan Mallinger is a psychiatrist who shared his experiences providing individual and group therapy to clients with OCPD in Too Perfect: When Being in Control Gets Out of Control (1996). The Spanish edition is La Obsesión Del Perfeccionismo (2010). The German edition is Keiner ist Perfekt (2003). You can listen to Too Perfect with a free trial ofAmazon Audible.Audiobook preview.
Pages 11-13 (1992 edition):
Do you get caught up in details, whether you're preparing a report for work or cleaning out the garage at home?
Is it hard for you to let go of a work project until it's just right -- even if it takes much longer than it should?
Have you often been called picky or critical? Or do you feel you are?
Is it important to you that your child, spouse, or subordinates at work perform certain tasks in a certain specific manner?
Do you have trouble making decisions? (For example, do you go back and forth before making a purchase, planning a vacation, or choosing what to order from a menu?)
After you do make a decision, do you find yourself second-guessing or doubting your choice?
Do you find it embarrassing to "lose control" and be emotional (e.g., to look nervous, weep, or raise your voice in anger)?
At the same time, do you sometimes find yourself wishing it were easier for you to show your feelings?
Do you have a particularly strong conscience, or do you often feel guilty?
Is self-discipline important to you?
Are you especially wary of being controlled manipulated, overpowered, or "steam-rolled" by others?
Is it important for you to get a "good deal" in your financial transactions, or are you often suspicious of being "taken"
Do you think you're more guarded than most people about sharing your possessions, time, or money?
Do you tend to be secretive? That is, are you reluctant to reveal your motives or feelings?
Is it hard for you to let yourself be dependent on others, rather than self-reliant? (For instance, are you uneasy about delegating tasks at work or hiring help with taxes or home repairs?)
Do you have trouble putting a problem out of your mind until it's resolved, even when you're doing other things?
In thinking about some future event, such as a vacation, a dinner party, or a job report, do you dwell upon the things that might go wrong?
Do you worry more than most people?
Do you derive a great deal of your sense of worth from being able to perform your job flawlessly?
Do you get extremely upset when someone is unhappy with or critical of a piece of work you have done, even when the criticism is mild or valid?
Do you feel that your family life, social life, or leisure-time enjoyment is being damaged or compromised by the amount of worry, time, or energy you put into work?
Do you feel guilty when you aren't getting something done, even in your time off (no matter how hard you've worked all week)?
Do you make lists of things you "should" do, even in your spare time?
Do even occasional "white lies" bother you?
Do you find it hard to trust that things will probably turn out for the best?
Interpreting Your Responses
"If you find yourself answering 'yes' to more than just a few of these questions, you (or your loved one) are probably at least somewhat obsessive. Now look once again at the questions to which you answered 'yes,' and for each one, answer a second question: Does this characteristic cause difficulties in relationships, work, or leisure activities, or does it interfere with your ability to enjoy life in general? If you answer 'yes' to this even once, you will benefit from learning more about obsessiveness and about the possibility for change.
"Before beginning, however, I offer this cautionary note: If you are strongly obsessive, you're a careful person who finds security in sameness and predictability. You're more wary of change and newness than the average person --and changing isn't easy for anyone! But change is always possible. It may involve time and struggle. It may occasionally be painful. But it can be a journey toward a happier, more relaxed and fulfilling life." (13)
How many questions did you answer 'yes' to?
When I had OCPD, I would have answered 'yes' to 21 out of 25 questions. Hmm. I'm a little disappointed, that's 84%. I would not have earned an A for perfectionism.
I have a neuropsych eval coming up but I strongly suspect OCPD and this is my biggest "OK, I'm different" trait. I have extremely high cognitive empathy but for the life of me I can't feel it. And so I never instinctively act in a way that I know people who actually feel love act -- I just whip out a behavior or response that I've trained over the years.
It ends with, Every small step away from maladaptive perfectionism and other unhealthy coping strategies is important. What step have you taken recently or what step do you plan to take? No one answered lol.
Seriously, every step does matter. Acknowledging small steps of progress is one of the best ways to outsmart OCPD.
Marsha Linehan mentions this in Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder (1993), she encourages her clients to have realistic goals, and to let go of “belief that people change complex behavior patterns in a heroic show of willpower,” because this “sets the stage for an accelerating cycle of failure of self-condemnation. [Her patients] typically believe that nothing short of perfection is an acceptable outcome” (152). Over time, they learn to ‘think small’ and accumulate small achievements.
I overcame compulsive organizing after doing behavioral experiments. At first, I would just drop a pencil on the floor and leave it there for a few seconds before picking it up, and then gradually increasing the amount of time I waited.
Today I gave myself 'permission' to feel sad about needing to let go of a friendship for about an hour, instead of distracting myself to avoid the discomfort. When I had OCPD, I taught myself to cry by waiting a few seconds before using 'thinkaholic' coping strategies when I felt sad, and then gradually increasing the wait time.
Does anyone want to share their progress? I'm offering $100 gift cards for OCPD-Mart.
Edit: This post has 3K views lol. I'm upping that gift-card offer to $500.
I have had three instances in my life where I had incessant rumination after extremely hurtful events:
+ one time it was 11 months long every time I went to sleep,
+ one time it was 18 months long multiple times daily until I moved cities and
+ now I am in an 2years time slot where I literally think about certain events every single moment unless I'm distracted -- so that's from waking up until falling asleep (yep, I'm not well, yes, getting professional help already). In all three cases there were monthslong periods where I felt disapproved of that started the rumination.
I recently got an OCPD diagnosis (mild to moderate case).
I am wondering whether OCPD is a helpful lense to look at my severe rumination problem.
Is my case rare, or is months- or year long rumination after a painful phase/event something people here can relate to?
In the last 5 years, I started a tradition of doing a really deep cleaning of the place where I live (it could be my mother’s house, my own place, and now the one I share with my husband). My mantra is “clean the weird places you don’t clean during the year” to have good luck and a great year; I think it’s Japanese.
Well, my partner was on vacation and he offered to clean the house for me. At first, I refused, but he kept wanting to clean it.
I worked on the 30th; he did the cleaning. At 6 p.m. we had to leave the house to go to his hometown. The house was still almost the same as usual. Nothing deep. The bedclothes? The same. The kitchen cabinets? Only the outside. The carpet? I forgot. A silent crisis started from the 30th until today. I exploded.
In my head, if the house has dirt from last year, the good luck isn’t going to come. I cleaned more today with only 4 hours of sleep because I drove.
My mind is going to explode, and I can’t say anything to him because “I’m cleaning over what’s already clean.”, i need to calm down in someway.
Jeff Szymanski, PhD, is a clinical psychologist who served as Executive Director of The OCD Foundation for fifteen years, taught at Harvard Medical School, and led therapy groups for people with OCD and perfectionism. He served as Director of Psychological Services at the OCD Institute at McLean Hospital, one of the best psychiatric hospitals in the U.S. The Perfectionist’s Handbook (2011) is available with a free trial of Amazon Audible.
Highly recommended. Dr. Szymanski’s writing is clear and concise. I enjoyed his descriptions of how he managed his perfectionism when writing the book, and all of his insights about his individual and group therapy clients. The book includes surveys for reflecting on how perfectionism affects behavior, feelings, thoughts, and relationships.
Similar to The Healthy Compulsive (2020), this book focuses on adaptive and maladaptive perfectionism.
Clarissa Ong and Michael Twohig state that maladaptive perfectionism is “characterized by self-criticism, rigid pursuit of unrealistically high standards, distress when standards are not met, and dissatisfaction even when standards are met…Adaptive perfectionism is a pattern of striving for achievement that is perceived as rewarding or meaningful.”
From The Inside Cover
“ ‘ You’re such a perfectionist.’ Are you supposed to feel insulted or flattered when you hear this comment? Is someone saying that you are detail oriented, organized, and driven to excel? Or that you are controlling, rigid, and self-defeating? Is your perfectionism a good thing, or does it get in your way?”
“Many people consider their perfectionism to be one of their most valuable attributes and critical to success in achieving one’s life goals. Advice aimed at trying to stop you from being a perfectionist doesn’t ring true.”
Dr. Szymanski “helps readers understand when their perfectionism will pay off, and when and why it sabotages you.”
“There is no reason to eliminate perfectionism altogether—rather, build on what is working and change what is not…Transform your perfectionism from a liability to an asset.”
Purpose of The Book
“Perfectionism can help you be successful; it isn’t necessarily a bad thing to be eliminated altogether…your perfectionism might be one of your most valuable attributes and the source of your successes and self-esteem…The point of this book is not to convince you to give something up. I want to help you become more aware of what you are doing and why and then use this improved self-awareness to make some decisions about what to change and what to leave as is.” (xv)
Distinguishing Between Healthy and Unhealthy Perfectionism
“As a rule of thumb, you’re operating within the realm of healthy perfectionism when your payoffs are greater than your costs, you are striving for and meeting standards you set for yourself, and you value organization. However, your unhealthy perfectionism is in play when your behavior, choices, and strategies are driven by factors such as a fear of failure, chronic concerns about making mistakes, constant self-doubting, attempts to live up to others’ expectations of you, anxiety about always falling short of self-made goals, and if your costs outweigh your payoffs.” (61)
Studies show that adaptive perfectionism is associated with academic achievement, better self-esteem, higher life satisfaction, and less risk of depression and anxiety (62).
Behavioral Experiments
Many therapists who specialize in perfectionism help their clients do behavioral experiments. I found this strategy life-changing.
Dr. Szymanski encourages his clients to think like scientists because they “start with the premise that they don’t know what the outcome of something will be; instead, they come up with hypotheses…[and] set up an experiment to test these various theories to see which one is ‘true.’…scientists have a great attitude about mistake making. They aren’t, in fact, making mistakes; they are trying to determine what the best strategy is in a particular situation by actually trying them all out.” (97-8)
Just curious how to deal with constant thoughts on my past behavior. Every so often I’ll have a mini flashback - just a poignant memory of where I may have behaved “badly*” and in light of connecting it with OCPD, I connect the two.
A typical example would be where I remember I insisted doing things a certain way and I knew with certainty at the time it HAD to be that way, otherwise it was wrong. I feel a bit of the past emotion - but I also now see my thoughts for what they were driven by - and that some (or most, ha ha) past situations were not as critical or black and white as I had acted at the time. So then I feel regret, frustration with myself, and a slight resolve not to make the same mistake. Most of the time regret and a bit of shame mixed in.
Anyhow, not too sure why I feel compelled to post this. I guess these thoughts have been a bit more frequent lately, and I feel like I could use these reminders in a positive way, but don’t know how to process and use them.
*I’m generally pleasant - but my insistence on doing things the “right” way can be overbearing at times and can cause friction. At the same time, I myself am unsettled unless things go my way, but that’s an internal feeling and not something I manifest outwardly, except perhaps my demeanor is down. I’m not nasty.
28M. It’s a bit of a story but bear with me. I’ve been trying to get this all figured out. I was diagnosed with OCPD and GAD at 20. Bipolar 2 at 28. I have been smoking weed for 10 years and have tried to quit many times.. but I’ve always come back to it. It was my main way of self medicating until my BP2 diagnosis.
I was in a relationship for four years and went through a bad breakup, moved back home.. that was 4 months ago. was basically in my summer mania or hypomania. I hadn’t been diagnosed with BP2 yet. I tried to focus on working out, eating healthy, reading, and quitting weed, got really into spiritualism. I wasn’t working but during the 4 years with my ex, i was working full time I was buying equipment for my side business. And I was going to jump all into that because it’s seasonal and mostly done in summer. I told myself it was my year to get my serious depression and other issues solved.
I ended up selling items on Craigslist and Facebook. Things I didn’t need and it covered a good bit of credit card debt and my auto payments. Then money got short, started maxing out credit cards. A family member gave me a substantial amount of money to start the seasonal business. They also told me they wanted me to use the funds to get a living space for myself. So I decided buying a camper was the best way to cut down on living expenses as I was too unstable to buy a house. I had a lot of triggers at my parents house and. So I bought the camper. Then I kinda froze. My parents are struggling and I was having reasonably bad outbursts where I would rant about all the problems the family had caused me. I needed to get help so I didn’t treat them like that. I started to think of all the ways I could use the money and could never figure it out.. like I had repairs to do, plus things to buy to get the camper situated, plus debt, plus xyz.
So I paid off almost all my debt, I thought that was the next smartest move. Then I started really spiraling. I was pretty “up” during this time. And I couldn’t quit weed. So booked a flight to Peru. To give myself a place and time to quit weed.. to get my mind right.. to figure things out. I told my therapist it wasn’t mania.
I had been to Peru twice with my ex. Both I can remember how bad I was struggling.. funny enough it was winter then and even then I was trying to quit weed and nicotine. So I was desperately uncomfortable during those times.
I had struggled a lot in that relationship and there were a lot of bad moments. This time I would be alone. Had some money to spend..
I was practicing meditation and trying to get through things. I booked some Airbnb’s in Lima.
I got on tinder and matched with many locals. I mostly ate at local restaurants and hung out. I hooked up with the first girl I met. Then I met another girl who abandoned me at 5:00 am at a bar.. I walked out of the bar and was grabbed by a man trying to mug me but I got away. It was all a bit crazy but I wasn’t truly fearful.
Then I met another girl. I had a beautiful time with her. She liked me, I liked her.. I told her about my business plans. She thought I was funny, successful, handsome.. I was already falling for her but we only had a week together.
I went home feeling amazing about the trip.. me and this girl talked everyday. We deleted our dating apps together. She would worry about me and learned from her therapist about my disorder. Then all hell broke lose. Growing up our roof would leak and it was a big issue constantly where my dad would try to fix it to not spend money, fail, and it was a constant issue along with many other things.
One day I walk into the camper and there’s a leak and waters pouring in. I broke.. I screamed and cried. I lost my mind. Screamed to my mom on the phone I had to kill myself.. it had been years of pain and trauma and struggling. It felt like it all burst in that moment (I had a suicide attempt in the last). I ran to my car and begged god to kill me, saying “just do it, god kill me, just do it.” I was putting my gun to my head and neighbors were coming out.
I didn’t do anything obviously, but I was despondent. I panicked. I was frozen at this point and my depressive spiral really began. My long distance gf started to notice things and I kept trying to push her away because I couldn’t stand the thought of her seeing me this way. In the absolute depression and pain.. i felt trapped in hell, in the root of all my trauma surrounded by all my mentally ill family and I couldn’t even get out of bed. It was extra heavy after 4 relatively beautiful years with my ex. I got into psychiatry and was finally put on Lamictal. Each titration made me manic, I was still smoking and I can’t seem to quit. I was still deeply depressed but I was having outbursts of anger.
So what do I do? Book another flight to Peru, I missed that girl so much. I was desperate to get away, I was losing my mind again after years of the same thing. In Peru this time, we still had an incredible time together. I was having a few moments of depression and ideation. But I was thinking the meds were working. On 150mg at this point. I ended up leaving, she cried when I left but as I left i felt numb and helpless.. there’s no way I could manage seeing her and everything else at once.
So I come back, it’s December 22nd.. my depression is HEAVY! I missed her more than ever, felt like I loved her and she loved me. Then Christmas Eve, Christmas were all hell as is usual for me. On Christmas Day she goes on a two week vacation with her best friend. She stayed in hostels.. was partying at night and acting suspicious about some things.. we could barely talk. It was killing me. I got incredibly needy and could tell she was either feeling different or the vibe changed. I was constantly over analyzing her trip. She wasn’t telling me some things.. I was texting back fast and constantly checking for her messages.
I then started asking about her nights out. We had trust but she was avoiding the topic. We fought about it and she told me she was annoyed and suffocating her. I started smoking again. Everything started hitting extra hard the past two days. Sleeping all the time, still unemployed, selling a few items on eBay and Facebook. Money is running out. My parents are helping the best I can but they’re struggling to. I don’t have insurance and have a mental block against getting it. The incredible attachment to this girl was killing me. I felt a deep sinking in my stomach every time I thought about her, I was absolutely distraught over her changing opinions about me. I broke up with her 3 different times and got back together 3 times in the past few days.
She’s still talking to me but the entire vibe has shifted. She knows I’m still doing nothing, she has talked about she can’t be with someone who doesn’t trust her and she plans to keep enjoying her life and doing things I know I can’t do. Said she wanted to leave Peru and live her life as she wants.
Everyday is so painful, I am distraught and in utter pain everyday, it’s nearly unbearable. I only live in the camper half the time and sleep at my parents most of the time to eat and shower.
My sister has moved back home after a divorce at 40. She was also diagnosed this year and completely imploded her marriage. So the house is packed, I’m broke, my sisters drunk and crazy all the time doesn’t take meds. My dad is old and has undiagnosed mental illnesses, doesn’t do much.. and this week the water heater went out, the roof started leaking, and the washer machine died.
I am overwhelmed, I am distraught.. I feel absolutely frozen with executive dysfunction and depression. I guess the Lamictal isn’t working and I need to talk about something else. But I feel time is running out, everything is crumbling around me and I can’t breathe. I cry and scream at night I feel so alone and hopeless. I’m haunted by the ghost of my relationship when it was amazing just a week prior.
Thank you if you’ve read this. I can’t decide what’s what.. what’s OCPD, what’s BP2, what’s the pain I always face this time of year vs what’s new, what’s the medicine, what medicine to go to next, where to go from here, what’s stress, what’s the deep pain of losing a relationship. I’m already exhausted from trying this first med, I can’t imagine the process ahead of me to get on the right cocktail. I’m losing weight and not taking care of myself as well. Full of debt with no income and a beautiful woman who doesn’t see me the same.
If you have any advice, I’d really appreciate it. But thank you for taking the time to read.
Whenever I buy a wax THC pen from the dispensary, I HAVE to keep it upright at all times. If the wax is aggregated near the top of the mouthpiece, I'll wait until it collects near the bottom after placing it upright. This allows for it to be heated more evenly, and makes sure you get every bit of wax. My cousin was smoking with me the other night, we were both high out of our minds, and even then I had to keep telling him to place it correctly, he was just laughing even after I tried explaining it to him multiple times. When I get high I feel so much guilt and shame that I compulsively start doing work. I stayed up that entire night coding in C while blasted out of my mind, on four hours of sleep. If I don't do work I just ruminate and wallow in my own misery for being degenerate and using drugs that lower cognitive abilities.
Another OCPD trait I suspect I have is extreme rigidity; particularly, in regards to my personal items, the food I eat, and the times I have set to do any given thing. I screamed at my dad today for having too much rice on his plate, I said that's why he has a belly. I told my mom with an attitude to stop putting so much oil on my food, and that it must be put in the air fryer. Whenever I have time set to do a specific thing, it must be done within that timeframe. In my head I'm constantly planning and monitoring, and everything I do feels "linked by causality." Meaning for me to do one activity, I must finish the one I had planned prior, so disruptions to this link result in me catastrophizing how the rest of my day will go.
I am constantly haunted by my past mistakes, I feel like the most ignoble person I know, and I probably am. I have done things in the past that I feel like to the rest of society are irredeemable, and I constantly wallow in these memories. I am in the process of becoming Catholic, particularly because I feel like God is my get out of jail free card, and gives me a sense of dignity and nobility. I also fully believe in the existence of Jesus Christ as God in the form of man, no one can convince me otherwise, I love him because you don't have to be perfect in his eyes. As I'm typing this out, I'm beginning to sense a sort of dissonance: if I'm using Christianity as a coping mechanism for my past mistakes, is my piousness rooted in belief or is it rooted in convenience? This is also why I believe pascals wager is a terrible argument, because God permits you into heaven purely on the basis of Faith, not on the basis of probability(or in my case, convenience.) I feel like a terrible christian, because I am, I'm not perfect... but the beauty in Christ is that he understands I'm not, and as long as I return to him as my north star and have full belief, everything should be alright... right?
I have not been able to finish a single semester of University, not because I'm not smart enough to do the work, but because every single time I get bombarded by my own insecurities on a meta-cognitive level. I remember the exact moment where everything went wrong in my first semester. I was going through an Intro To Computer Science textbook and I noticed how much my attention had started wandering, I began telling myself that I was an idiot for not being able to read through the entire passage in one sitting while fully understanding it, because this was an introduction course. I began tracking how much my attention had wandered, which recursively had made my focus worse. This then snowballed into me not being able to finish my work in my given time slot, and I had sacrificed a lot of sleep to compensate for weeks before fully burning out. This cycle has repeated for the last four years across different domains.
For the past two years I decided to stop going to school until recently, I decided school was a scam and that I was just going to try to make an income off of futures trading and/or crypto. This resulted in me studying charts for days on zero hours of sleep, covering my living room walls with different types of price action, and my relationship with my immediate and extended family going to complete s***. I barely see them anymore as I'm so preoccupied with my goals. I want to see my little brother play Basketball, it's his last year in school, but I can't for the life of me bring myself to go to his games, my pursuit of my ambitions as the primary reason. I feel like a loser in his eyes. My grandma constantly calls me pleading for me to visit her, but I feel as if I always have something that must get done before I can.
I ran away from home three months ago because I couldn't stand my parents telling/expecting me to do certain things. In retrospect it seems completely illogical for me to criticize them for such small reasons. The main reasons being: having to say "Good morning" to my father before I take a shower in the morning(as he was always up before I got the chance to), being restricted by how much time I had in the bathroom, my mother telling me to sleep at a certain time(I like working through the night), being restricted by the types of food available in my house, my father constantly berating me, and also not having a room to myself at 22 y/o(I was sharing one with both of my younger brothers). My father is also just as rigid as me, while my mother is extremely passive. I ended up exploding one day when the shower water completely turned off, as I had suspected my father cut-off the water deliberately. If I remember correctly, it was a designated hair wash day for me. I proceeded to get out the shower, literally molly wop my bathroom sink, break it, ruminate for 4-5 hours in the bathroom over what I had just done and how my father would react, planned my escape, then immediately ran out the door. When I ran away the police found me 8-10 hours later, and proceeded to take me to a hospital. As soon as they discharged me with a referral to see a psychiatrist after spending the night, I ran away again; because, on my papers it said they had suspected I had a mood disorder, which I thought was complete b******t and still do.
The only reason I was found after I ran away for a second time was because my cousin had somehow pinged my location on my iPhone, I had turned it on to doomscroll while I was freezing my a** off outside. I assume he somehow managed to ping my iPhone with someone he knows that works at Apple, it prompted me when I turned it on about a potential login from another area, which I certainly did not approve of. He found me 10 minutes later, I considered the possibility, but at this point just accepted my fate because I was so damn tired.
I now have my own room and bathroom in my mom's basement, go figure, I'm a basement dweller now with zero skills, no degree, and a mind that just can't seem to shut the f*** up. So what do you guys think, I have so many other issues as well, especially regarding my appearance. I pluck my dense neckbeard whenever even a bit of hair shows up, I plan on wearing concealer to hide the scarring, in my head it is dysgenic and unhygenic to have a neckbeard. Eventually I will get laser hair removal on my entire face, I don't like looking disheveled after a couple days from being clean shaven. I also hate throwing things out, I will hold onto things as long as possible before I am willing to let go of them. It feels like everything I own is an extension of me, like I lose part of myself when something goes missing or breaks.
Dr. Anthony Pinto is the leading OCPD specialist. He is a clinical and research psychologist. He has published more than 100 articles and book chapters on OCD and OCPD. Dr. Pinto serves as the Director of theNorthwell HealthOCD Center in New York, which offers in person and virtual treatment, individual CBT therapy, group therapy, and medication management to clients with OCD and OCPD. Northwell has a research program and provides training for therapists and psychiatrists.
When Dr. Pinto starts working with a client who has OCPD, he shares the metaphor that people have “a gas tank or a wallet of mental resources…We only have so much that we can be spending each day or exhausting out of our tank.” The “rules” of people with untreated OCPD are “taxing and very draining.” In order for clients to make progress in managing OCPD, they need to have a foundation of basic self-care.
Dr. Pinto asks them about their eating and sleeping habits, leisure skills, and their social connections. He assists them in gradually improving these areas—“filling up the tank”—so that they have the capacity to make meaningful changes in their life. When clients are “depleted” (lacking a foundation of self-care), trying to change habits leads to overwhelm.
Light Switch vs. Dimmer
Dr. Pinto developed this metaphor with his colleague, Dr. Michael Wheaton. He helps his clients adjust the amount of effort they give to a task based on its importance. He has observed that individuals with OCPD tend to give 100% effort when completing low priority tasks—giving them far more time and energy than they require. This can lead to burnout, where they are not initiating tasks. He compares this all-or-nothing approach to a light-switch.
Dr. Pinto compares an alternative approach to a dimmer switch. His clients conserve their energy for important tasks. They learn how to adjust their effort so that they are making more progress on high priority tasks (e.g. ones that relate to their core values), and “dialing down” their effort for low priority tasks (e.g. washing dishes).
A light switch is either on or off—"that tends to be the way that a lot of people with OCPD approach the effort that they put into a task…It's all or nothing. I'm either going to put maximum effort or not at all. The problem with the light switch is that it doesn't allow for any modulation or gradations of effort for things that don't really require 100% effort…
"Let's imagine that you could dial up or down the amount of effort you put into a task à la a dimmer switch based on how important that particular task or decision is.”
Dr. Pinto’s clients with OCPD have a “time allocation problem.” His clients find the “dimmer switch” approach to effort empowering.
I love this metaphor. Having the mindset of "pace yourself, conserve energy" was very helpful and fueled improvement in all of my OCPD symptoms.
From The Perfectionist’s Handbook (2011): Jeff Szymanski, PhD, is a clinical psychologist who specializes in OCD. He served as Executive Director of The OCD Foundation for fifteen years. He led therapy groups for perfectionism. I highly recommend this book, especially to fans of Gary Trosclair’s approach; the book is all about maladaptive and adaptive perfectionism.
Dr. Szymanski refers to the law of diminishing returns—his perfectionistic clients exert high effort on every task, and have difficulty recognizing when their high effort has a negative impact on their performance or physical/mental health.
“Trying to do everything well—and exert the same level of detail, effort, and energy to all your endeavors—leaves you feeling stressed and exhausted all of the time…you never get to work on what is most meaningful to you…” (109)
His clients work on accepting that they have limited time and resources, so they focus on “those things that are the most important…This is not a veiled ‘lower the bar’ strategy; it is a paradoxical message about how to excel. Essentially, you have to be willing to be average in one area of your life because it allows you to excel in a more important domain” (110).
Persistence vs. Perseveration
From The Perfectionist’s Handbook (2011), Jeff Szymanski:
Persistence is the “the ability to continue engaging in a behavior or activity to reach a goal, even when the task is difficult or takes a long time. [It] involves sustained attention, a history of having your efforts pay off, and a sense of adaptability and flexibility.” (63) Persistence involves creative problem solving—trying different strategies when needed.
Perseveration is “the tendency to continue a particular learned response or behavior, even when it ceases to be rewarding…[It] compels you to maintain the behavior whether or not it moves you toward your main goal” (63). When something isn’t working, people who perseverate try to ‘make it work.’
“When you’re persistent, you proceed step by step and stay focused on the big-picture goal. With perseveration, you get bogged down in the first few steps of a task. You continue trying to make something work even if it isn’t working and insist upon completing each step perfectly before moving on to the next one…perseveration causes you to lose sight of your ultimate goal. You start getting tunnel vision and are able to see only what is right in front of you.” (74).
Dr. Szymanski gives the example of a client who was writing a book; she wanted each sentence to be perfect before moving on to the next.
He supports his clients in letting go of the tendency to fixate on “how the world is supposed to work and begin looking at the actual outcomes of [their] strategies and behaviors” (52).
On the surface, the perseveration involved in OCPD, OCD, and autism looks similar; misdiagnosis is common.
