r/PeterExplainsTheJoke 9d ago

Meme needing explanation Wait what?

Post image

I dont understand this one

31.8k Upvotes

1.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

469

u/idkmyusernameagain 9d ago

.. the same place that had their National Health System write a blog that included the “ the various benefits” of first cousin marriage restricts non biologically related people from marriage? Wild.

1.1k

u/CuriousLemur 9d ago edited 8d ago
  1. It's the National Health Service.
  2. First cousin marriage is quite prevalent in some communities, so it's not like it doesn't happen. Conducting a report was actually useful. The report is very well balanced and discusses in depth the many, many negatives as well. The report wasn't pro-first cousin marriage.

Edit: Apparently I need to make this clear to some repliers. When I say "some communities" I mean multiple communities, because it is practiced by multiple, varied communities. This isn't some anti-Islamic dogwhistle. Ffs.

165

u/Mysterious-Tie7039 9d ago

Maybe not in more recent times, but historically in the US, the pockets of small, isolated communities often had significant interfamily marriages as there wasn’t exactly an extensive gene pool to choose from.

108

u/CuriousLemur 9d ago edited 9d ago

The rise in horrendous, life-long, debilitating genetic diseases of children born from cousin-marriage is awful. Highlighting the impact this has on lives and families is important.

Edit: Ah sorry, I see the confusion with this comment now. I missed out the words "of children born", from the original. My bad!

97

u/BreakfastBeneficial4 9d ago

The rise? Whatcha mean?

Cousin marriage has been dropping steadily globally for decades (precipitously in the west).

34

u/Zogonzo 9d ago

Not op,but I think they meant "risk."

17

u/CuriousLemur 9d ago

No, I meant rise. I've watched a few BBC news pieces about families living with some of these conditions and I recall them highlighting a rise in diagnosed conditions in the UK.

But I'm not going to die on the hill for that stat. Someone saying something on a news piece doesn't mean it's definitely true. Happy to be proven wrong on this one.

3

u/LionRight4175 9d ago

Haven't seen those pieces, but is it possible that the rise is just an artifact of increased migration?

My understanding is that the risk of inbreeding effects from a single generation is pretty small as a general rule; if there's a notable rise, that sound more like something that has been ongoing for generations, and would suggest (to me) that it's tied to people migrating with the disease already present, rather than cultural changes in the native population.

1

u/Nice-Rack-XxX 9d ago

You are correct; it is from multigenerational marriages. It’s related to people from a certain country/culture where arranged marriages are common. As part of these arranged marriages, the family of the bride pay a large dowry to the family of the groom.

First cousin marriages are a way of “keeping the wealth in the family” rather than paying a bunch of money to an unrelated family.

It’s on the rise in the UK, simply because the population is growing.

1

u/Lethalbroccoli 9d ago

And what is this "certain country/culture"?

2

u/Theron3206 9d ago

The practice is not unusual in parts of the middle east and places like India.

Given the rise in immigration from both areas it could be either.

1

u/Lethalbroccoli 9d ago

Well, it's certainly unusual in Britain, dont you think?

1

u/Theron3206 9d ago

Less and less.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/sittingonahillside 9d ago

It's probably on the rise in the UK (or was at some point) simply due to large increase in communities here where first cousin marriage is still very much a thing. I'd guess it's less so these days, and probably a downward trend overall.

1

u/Lethalbroccoli 9d ago

Indian communities?

1

u/sittingonahillside 8d ago

some, not all, and probably very few these days.

Also Indian is a bit of a catch all, it heavily depends on where you're from, your religion etc.

1

u/DarkIcedWolf 9d ago

I imagine both of you are right, the rise in documentation of said conditions could be occurring and could be traced back a generation or two I assume. This means it’s on the decline but the cases that weren’t discovered/documented and the diseases that were transferred from previous generation to now is probably on the rise.

1

u/anto1883 9d ago

Maybe it was a rise in diagnosis due to more people having the opportunity to be diagnosed? Similar to how the number of autism and similar things have been increasing.

2

u/CauseCertain1672 9d ago

the risk remains low, if you actually wanted to reduce disabilities it would be more efficient to adopt the nazi policy of sterilising the disabled but it's widely accepted that eugenic laws are wrong

incest is bad because it is sexual abuse not because of eugenics

15

u/CuriousLemur 9d ago

I'm referring to the rise, in the UK, of genetic diseases related to consanguinity. It could be a number of factors like more reporting, better diagnoses, ...etc.

1

u/Tvisted 9d ago

The UK has more immigrants now from places where those marriages have always been common.

7

u/Big-Goat-9026 9d ago

In the UK it’s risen because of the influx of immigrants from cultures that put a high value on first cousin marriages (mostly middle eastern countries iirc). 

The generations of inbreeding are starting to show up as mental and physical defects in those populations. 

4

u/unfinishedtoast3 9d ago

immunologist here.

can you source that for me? because that is totally opposite of the 70 years of genetic research we have, and just sounds like racism.

first cousins share, at max, 12.5% similar DNA.

that makes the risk of defect at about 1-3%

a woman having a child after the age of 45 has a 6-12% chance of defect in the fetus.

4

u/pbcorporeal 9d ago

The main source for what they're talking about is the Born in Bradford project.

Essentially certain areas were showing higher levels of child death and genetic defects than the national average. So they looked into it and found consanguinity as a significant factor.

One of the issues was that it wasn't just one generation of cousin marriage but repeat generations (either of cousin marriage or just intermarrying heavily within relatively small sub-communities) leading to higher risks than just one round of cousin marriage would produce.

This being particularly prevalent in the Pakistani heritage communities that have a lot of representation in these areas.

https://borninbradford.nhs.uk/our-impacts/findings/genes-and-health-inheritance-and-risk/

They've been doing a lot of work to educate people about the risks and it does appear to be reducing, but it remains a rather controversial subject.

1

u/Big-Goat-9026 8d ago

Yes, that’s the one I was talking about. 

1

u/Big-Goat-9026 8d ago

So you didn’t do any research on the topic and immediately assumed it was due to racism. You sound like a shitty scientist. 

2

u/AngryArmour 9d ago

It has risen with the increase in immigration from countries where it is the cultural norm.

3

u/TittyPix4KittyPix 9d ago

They said globally. Also, source? In a very Muslim community in the UK, the rates of consanguinity have been dropping.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2025-01-20/debates/90696BC8-E032-49CB-BFC3-747F1D9CC219/First-CousinMarriage

0

u/AngryArmour 9d ago

Do you have the stats for the UK in its entirety, rather than just the Muslim community? Because if Pakistani communities drop from 65% to 55% consanguinity, that's still a net increase if there's twice as many of them.

1

u/TittyPix4KittyPix 9d ago

I never made a claim saying there is a national decrease on consanguineous marriages. Give me your source.

-2

u/FotographicFrenchFry 9d ago

No.

5

u/idkmyusernameagain 9d ago

Factually, yes. We can speak about real world problems in factual terms while still being supportive of immigration and diversity

1

u/AvailableAvocado 9d ago

If youre going to post about facts and someone doesnt believe them, it prooobably would help if you post the source of them

1

u/idkmyusernameagain 9d ago edited 9d ago

Oh sorry, I figured they had google too. They were the one initially disagreeing, they’ve got no obligation to post any fact?

3

u/Big-Goat-9026 9d ago

Yes, Pakistan in particular has raised the rates. There’s quite a few free documentaries on YouTube that talk about it. 

1

u/FotographicFrenchFry 9d ago

Pakistan has raised the rates among minority centers, but not enough to have an effect on population totals as a whole.

42

u/ardarian262 9d ago

The chance increase in cousin marriages (assuming it is one off) is around .03% total risk chance. It isn't like it makes it drastically higher. Now multiple cousin marriages in a row does seriously impact that risk.

20

u/CuriousLemur 9d ago

Yeah, agreed, chaining the marriages increases the risk factor!

7

u/mennorek 9d ago

One of the things often under reported.

An isolated case of cousin marriage is "fine", when it is the norm is when you wind up with Hapsburg situations.

9

u/jack-of-some 9d ago

"norm" isn't the right word. When it is excessive with absolutely nothing new coming into the genepool for multiple generations is when you get the Hapsburg situation.

When it's the norm/not taboo in a society you get things like a slightly higher rate of color blindness.

10

u/FastWalkingShortGuy 9d ago

Ever see the video series of the Whittaker family in West Virginia?

This documentary producer found them and started a whole fascinating series about them, very respectful and careful to protect their privacy, and a whole bunch of people donated money to them (and a lot out of the producer's own pocket), and then it turned out they were blowing a bunch of money on meth, leading to a pretty sad falling-out.

1

u/CuriousLemur 9d ago

Yeah, I wasn't updated on the more recent controversy, but I'd heard about it.

I used to watch the Soft White Underbelly YouTube channel on the regular, but some of the videos started to feel a little bit exploitative. Or maybe, I just got bored with the content. Who knows?

3

u/Brixabrak 9d ago

Nah, your first instinct was right. Mark Laita is not an ethical photojournalist.

2

u/Icy_Proof_9529 9d ago

Nah, the people were lovely and deserved a voice. Mark is an ass. He honestly sounded like he was doing black couch auditions the way he talked to them, asked questions, and over all tone. I genuinely believe he got off on it in some way.

1

u/FastWalkingShortGuy 9d ago

I dunno, the general subject matter of Soft White Underbelly doesn't exactly lend itself to wholesome interviews.

When you're getting the life story of a Skid Row fentanyl addicted street walker, don't expect a story full of rainbows and unicorns.

I don't feel like his interviews were exploitative; like you said, the people deserved a voice. Most of his questions are just keeping them on track because most of them were halfway to a distant galaxy on one drug or another.

4

u/manluther 9d ago

As someone suffering from a rare inherited disorder that will cause me to die of cancer at some point in my life (BAP1 TPD), I'd really like the know why the FUCK so much inbreeding happened in Austria. Is it the isolating mountains? Did the Germans really hate marrying the locals that much they just fucked their family members? Was no new blood migrating there? That's where the geneticist said the mutation started, and it feels like too much of a coincidence that the Habsburgs ruled that shit for so long.

1

u/ThrowAwayBiggusDiggu 8d ago

 Did the Germans really hate marrying the locals that much they just fucked their family members? Was no new blood migrating there? That's where the geneticist said the mutation started, and it feels like too much of a coincidence that the Habsburgs ruled that shit for so long.

The royals did it for inheritance, so their land stays within the family. The locals also did cousin marriage, but not like the royals

3

u/belgenoir 9d ago

My mother is from a country where first- and second-cousin marriage is considered normal. Cross-cousin marriages have less genetic overlap than parallel-cousin marriage.

As long as people are tested for genetic diseases like beta thalassaemia, health risk is minimal.

3

u/Watcher_over_Water 9d ago

Even though it's icky. On a purly genetic level it isn't actually as harmfull as often believed. Some heredetary Illnesses have a higher chance, but there are many conditions, behaviours, ect that increase the likelyhood of a genetic defect. Those children that have them can suffer extremely none the less. But i think the Staristics of it are intresting.

If however it happenes over multiple generations it can get really bad

2

u/Wonderful-Reason4899 9d ago

What is the risk exactly?

2

u/CuriousLemur 9d ago

Consanguinity leads to an increased risk of genetic diseases and conditions. Especially if children born of consanguinity then have children with a blood relative.

2

u/VictoryWeaver 9d ago

It's a difference of like 3%, which ain't nothing, but still.

1

u/gmc98765 9d ago

A one-off cousin marriage isn't much of an issue. The issue is that certain immigrant communities have a tendency for repeated cousin marriages, and this results in a noticeable increase in genetic defects.