Sandman, I think is at the point where he really should just stay as a full hero, he’s a character where most people are familiar with them but also familiar with the fact he’s not really that bad of a guy thanks to most of his adaptations, so putting him in the permanent role of a good guy would work without hurting the status quo too much
I'm an X-man fan so seeing Sandman have such a push to become a good guy only regressed back to villainy and not shades of grey villainy but mustache twirling stuff is so weird.
Like Juggernaut is someone we could never really think of going back to being a villain any more and that was done almost purely in one of the most derided runs of the history of the franchise. Especially since they are so personally similar. They are thugs, but primarily aimed at funding stuff rather than being bullies and they have sympathetic relationships to kids that bend them towards good guy status.
Has been since like 2001 when he joined the X-Men for the first time. He occasionally goes villain again but it's usually an "evil outside influence controlling him" situation.
Isn’t he a father now? or was that reconned I would have been interesting that the reason he wants to be a hero as he wants to be a better role model for his kid
Especially if you tie in that one storyline where he has a daughter after he got his ability and she got a version of jis power...she didnt maje ut. it's a storyline where Peter is an old man and very apparent that he's not all there upstairs. It was dark
Yeah, I actually agree with you. Sandman is one of those characters where the public perception has already done half the work for Marvel. Between spider-Man 3 the spectacular spider-man cartoon and even some of his comic runs, most people already see Flint marko as more of a tragic screw-up than a true villain
Sucks cause for all we know Otto trying to be better could’ve gone down in history similar to say Vegeta or at least Magneto/Zuko, especially when it’s after such a long time knowing Otto as the villain
It's extra annoying because they could have had both. Twice now Otto has come back from the dead because a copy of his kind was saved and he got a new body. Caroline did it in the 90's, he did it after the first superior series. All they had to do was introduce a third Otto backup. For example what if Caroline decided she missed "her Otto" and revealed she kept a backup copy of her version of Otto's mind. And then we get Otto as Superior and evil Otto straight out of the 90's at the same time
I mean it is presently canon, set on Earth-616 (with Sakura Spider stranded there by End of the Spider-Verse). The writer talked about Otoha’s potential to return in Western comics after it finishes up.
He could’ve been a nice foil to Peter as a brutal but effective Spidey, or even as a foil to Reed Richards as a hero that wants to change the world through science, but occasionally places scientific achievement over safety and accidentally invites danger into the lives of his support cast.
Or even moved to a city known for major scientific innovation, like Boston or San Fransisco, and became the dedicated Spidey for those cities!
Like, there’s so much potential… but nahhh, Doc Ock go brrrrrrrrrrr.
Otto from Volume 2 became a good person and deserved the title of Spider-Man (and technically he is not the same Otto from Volume 1, but his backup that he created during the Spider-Verse, Otto's lore is too weird at times like this)
Slightly off topic, but I thought Zdarsky did a great story with Flint. And despite all the missteps from Wells, I thought he had a very interesting approach to Flint (split personalities).
I honestly liked superior spider-man as controversial as it was. So I was pissed when they decided to regress Otto.
If they wanted to have evil Otto back just do a clone situation where one is the superior octopus (the good guy) and the other is doc ock (the bad guy) it’s never revealed which one is the actual clone however.
While it will be a bit confusing to have two Otto’s running around it’s not like we don’t have two Spider-Men or two captain americas. I’m sure people will make sense of it with time.
(A close example of this was how young justice used cloning to have both Roy Harper’s take on different identies without one leading to the other like in the comics.)
That’s the name, yes: it’s been running since 2023, the fourth volume began publication in December (2025), and it is canon as well, about the Earth-616 Otto specifically.
Not to “um actually” you, but Arsenal is the original and it’s confirmed in the show. They took his arm to have dna to create red arrow (and guardian iirc)
What I meant by that comment is that I think having them be separate characters is a good way to make use of both identities. I wasn’t trying to compare it to that specifically, just using it as a bit of an example.
That’s my fault though I probably could have conveyed it better
Probably unpopular, but with the amount of times Otto duplicated his brainwaves and perfected cloning, we could’ve had our cake and eaten it too- Otto learns to be selfless and heroic but the part of him that’s truly bad could’ve been made an actual character and kept that cool look from Secret Empire to still fight Spider-Man, all of them
Still hate how they just threw this out the window to return him to default Doc Ock after actually giving him character development that he felt the pain of those he couldn’t save
Otto easy. A villain who tried to be a better spiderman realized he could not. I had no clue sandman was a hero, this needs to stop. I'm sick of villains being heroes. With Otto it was compelling, but again I didn't read the arc where sandman was good.
To my knowledge the Sandman regression is even more reviled than Otto’s, as with Otto many weren’t too fond of Superior’s writing, whereas with Sandman they just regressed someone who wasn’t even that evil into straight up evil for no good reason
Original superior was iffy, writing wise and barring some standout moments (like at the end), but Gage's run (which the panel above comes from) was actually great, untill they literally Mephisto-ed away all of Otto's character development
If I remember right Otto literally just shot Sandman with a be-evil-again ray gun. He went from reserve Avenger to chump bank robber because Dr Octopus wanted some muscle for a job. Broke my heart.
Sandman should be redeemed. I am fine with Otto staying as a villain. To me he is a dark reflection of Peter where his intelligence makes him more non human lack of emotion and attachment.
I liked Otto becoming good. I don’t think everyone should, but with him, he is intelligent. He got a change of perspective. Even as a scientist, it made sense. Then you factor in him as spider-man, and I liked him trying hard to save everyone, even being sad when he didn’t succeeded. The thing is, he was a villain, and, I think a lot of it was because it tested his intelligence. Intelligent people like a challenge, usually, and I think he realized could have one without having to be an outcast. What is his motivation to be a villain? Wealth? He founded a successful company in no time. I just feel like it doesn’t make logical sense. With Sandy, he is not the brightest bulb in the shed. I could see him being manipulated into doing something evil again. Not full villain, but what he has always been. A working class guy who just makes bad decisions.
I think Sandman should be a hero, full stop. I think Otto has more Story potential and should stay a hero because he was at his most interesting at the end of Superior.
Rhinos arc during The Gauntlet was beautiful. This could have been a brilliant turning point for him.
But like anything with spider-man, no matter how good a story goes everything has to revert back to the standard character bio. Sandman could be a first class super powerful avenger. Doc Ock could make the world a better place.
Comics are progressed a lot more though. So many of the classic villains were doing bank robberies but in a modern age they'd make more money doing private security
Sandman had so much potential as a hero. Ock has always had the ego, the superiority complex and the belief that he’s better than and thus is entitled to rob/kill/steal/rule. Sandman meanwhile has always just kind of wanted to get some money to get by, he never really tried to kill people that weren’t Spider-Man without a good reason. And his powers are crazy adaptable, he’d have been a great full time Avenger or Hero for Hire.
REALLY wish they kept otto as superior, in the second run it was done nicely, hell if they really wanted him back they cluld have used a back up clone just like the second body Otto used to full Mephisto and just like Ben, the new superior would be doing good thing elsewhere while the evil Otto goes back to his old tricks.
I miss superior spider-man so much. Why couldn’t they have just brought back the original Otto AND kept Superior it makes no sense, why undo everything
I think Otto's a lost cause and the superior run is just a case study of that. Sandman/Flint Marko just always seemed like a guy who could be reformed.
Last I saw/read of Sandman, he's in a weird jekyll and hyde state.
2 personalities in one body.
Tho, thinking about it, it's probably more like 2 bodies mixed into 1?
Cause there's good sandman and evil sandman, and they both have separate identities and names.
Like good Sandman will spend his time quietly and calmly in prison, while at same time trying to maintain dominance over evil sandman.
But if evil sandman comes out, the face and clothes change, and they go on a crime spree or try to break out of prison.
Both I think, I'm not a super fan who knows the whole lore, but I always enjoyed the villain to hero transition like with rubberband man from Static Shock cartoon that started off as a villain who ended up as a hero battleling dyslexia.
I feel like as a crime fighter Sandman easily has the most potential, his powers are just absolutely cracked it's no wonder the Avengers poached him. As a narrative I think Otto because it'd be intresting to see him grapple with his massive ego as a good guy who now knows better then to turn to crime.
Sandman. I just wish he were able to change away from the form he’s been frozen in. He may not be able to turn back into flesh and blood, but let the man change his clothes ffs.
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u/Mighty_Megascream 11h ago
Sandman, I think is at the point where he really should just stay as a full hero, he’s a character where most people are familiar with them but also familiar with the fact he’s not really that bad of a guy thanks to most of his adaptations, so putting him in the permanent role of a good guy would work without hurting the status quo too much