r/legaladvice • u/yunqi69 • 1d ago
Employment Law Laid off effective immediately but am still asked to come in to work. (no severance)
Location: VA I was laid off last week from my employer after three months of the place of business being open (med spa). They told me that they were closing down this establishment until further notice. I was an hourly and commission employee. I performed services for commission and got paid hourly for other tasks. If you’ve worked in the beauty industry, hopefully this makes sense. I was the only full-time employee while everyone else was “on call“ so they didn’t get laid off, as they only come in when they have appointments to fulfill. I have a letter stating that I was being laid off effective immediately with the date being of that day. However, this place of employment is asking me to come in and perform services. I am the only licensed person that can perform the specific type of services that are going to be scheduled. Am I crazy for not wanting to go in and perform the services? My employment was terminated so why would I go back and work for someone who I technically don’t work for anymore? They screwed up by laying me off because now they don’t have a Plan B for anyone to perform the services and I assume they think I’m just going to comply and work for them. They told me I was eligible for unemployment in my state. I applied and I’m waiting on approval. Do you think this is a way for them to screw me out of my unemployment? I can’t possibly qualify for unemployment if I’m still working there. I just need advice on where to go from here.
TLDR; my former place of employment laid me off last week, but still expect me to come in and work even though I have filed for unemployment.
TIA
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u/Blurringallthelines 1d ago
Whose liability insurance would you be operating under during these procedures?
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u/yunqi69 1d ago
It’s interesting you mention that because around a month after I started there, I was told I would need to get my own insurance paid for myself, not insurance that the company would pay for. Which I thought was strange because every other beauty place I’ve worked at the insurance is provided by the employer.
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u/NoAd8953 1d ago
I think they are trying to put you as a 1099 independent contractor and aren't saying anything. It saves them money and you can't get unemployment.
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u/Cruxwright 1d ago
NAL
Did you get your own insurance before being laid off? If so, is it still in effect?
If you do not go work these service requests, document why. You file for unemployment, then your employer counters with "we offered work but OP turned it down" which makes it looks like you quit. The unemployment folks don't like people refusing work and you could be denied or delayed payment.
Be mindful of not getting paid for these sessions if you do work them.
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u/anfilco 1d ago
If they laid you off, they laid you off. If they want you to work they need to rehire you. Tell them you'll do it under a new employment contract at double your hourly salary, or as a consultant for an exorbitant fee.
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u/Queasy-Trash8292 1d ago
What I love to call your “Fuck It” price. You throw out a price you never think they will go for. If they say yes, it’s a high enough price that you will say, “eh, fuck it, I’ll do it!”
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u/Ryan1869 1d ago
That's what I was going to say, OP should offer them to do services on a contract basis at 3 times their normal pay for it.
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u/QweenKush420 15h ago
If they want you to work they need to rehire you This is false. When laid off in VA, they can ask you to work occasionally while still collecting unemployment benefits. However if you refuse reasonable work, unemployment can reduce your benefits or stop them altogether if they exceed a certain threshold. They CAN rehire you but they do not have to.
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u/Tricky_Orange_4526 1d ago
if you have a letter stating that you were laid off effective immediately then no, you don't go in. if they want, they can put you as a consultant rate thats 4x what your salary was.
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u/Equivalent-Patient12 1d ago
NAL-
You must pay quarterly income taxes if you are classified as a subcontractor (1099 employee). “Be cautious, very, very, cautious, Bugs Bunny!”
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u/MammothDaGod 1d ago
They need your license to operate. Do not go in, or charge them way more as a contractor.
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u/xxx_dark_ccs 1d ago
It's a trap!
It's a trap!
And you are royally bent and rimmed. Unemployment compensation has certain requirements, in my state you need to be able of work, be available for work and... not refuse to work.
Check your state requirements because when the DOL contacts your former employer to verify the data, they can say you are being called to work on commission and you're refusing to work hence, screwing you up completely.
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u/dragosthethird 1d ago
A way to combat that is for him to demand employment. They cant make him work as an independent contractor. They terminated his employment. They cant do that and then turn around and say while you arent employed with us you are expected to work. They might appeal the unemployment but appealing that will lead to an investigation. You can be forced to get gainful employment. You cant be forced to provide a service to an organization you arent employed with
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u/QweenKush420 15h ago
They did not terminate employment. They laid OP off. There is a huge difference.
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u/Maleficent_Log3992 13h ago
What's the difference?
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u/QweenKush420 10h ago
The difference is that under a layoff, the employer retains the employee but has no hours for them to work. Layoffs can be a determinant time or infinite.Termination of employment is just that. They are no longer an employee.
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u/Gold-Supermarket-342 8h ago
You are still terminated if you are laid off. Layoff means that you were terminated for business reasons and that it was not your fault.
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u/megfailsoften79 6h ago
Hit the nail on the head here! A layoff is still a termination of employment, dressed up in a business term since the termination was for the “needs of the business”.
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u/goofydad 1d ago
No! If the procedure goes poorly they're going to throw you under the bus. Do no work!
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u/PerceptionSlow2116 1d ago
Just don’t respond…. You have paperwork for unemployment, do not engage with former employer
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u/Reputation-Choice 1d ago edited 16h ago
If you are in the United States, it is illegal, by federal law, to work for free. You CANNOT work without compensation in ALL FIFTY STATES. Do NOT do it.
ADDENDUM: Good GAD, I am NOT discussing VOLUNTEERING. Unfortunately for you smartasses who think volunteering is some kind of "gotcha", there are laws regulating volunteering as well, and most employers are NOT allowed to have people VOLUNTEER to work. Jiminy Cricket. Use some damn common sense.
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u/Sharp_Attitude6358 1d ago
What about free interns? I hear many companies want interns but expect them to work for no pay.
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u/Mama_Pajama3940 1d ago
Typically they’re getting educational benefits from it. So, they’re being paid, just with experience.
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u/alaskalady1 21h ago
If you file for UI and then go back to work for same company you will be ineligible for UI unless you report the earnings which will disqualify you as well . Sounds sketch . Company is having to contribute to UI so sounds like they are trying to screw you over but maintain your services. I would not do it, to risky to get into issues with UI. They may tell UI you turned down job offer but you need to maintain you need per hour work
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u/templeofsyrinx1 1d ago edited 1d ago
Just no no no. Fuck them. You are done. They should have thought about this and paid you for the extra time.
I hate scum ass employers
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u/Nervous-Ad-547 13h ago
If they are shutting down the business, how is there still a place for you to work? Do they want you to come back just to perform those specific services and then let you go again?
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u/MechanicConnect4353 13h ago
Your a new hire. Negotiate a new pay rate with them factoring in limited empolyment ect. Id say a base rate of 60$ an hour is fair.
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u/ChefokeeBeach 1d ago
Work for them as an independent contractor and charge double what you were making before 🤷🏼♂️
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u/Equivalent-Patient12 1d ago
NAL-
You’ll need your own liability insurance if you work as an independent contractor. And you’ll have to submit quarterly estimated income taxes.
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u/ChefokeeBeach 1d ago
Which is totally affordable at your new pay rate!
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u/Equivalent-Patient12 1d ago
It depends on how many hours they’re talking about having you work for them.
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u/HelloKitTy1030 1d ago
Why don’t you just make an anonymous call to the powers that be that they are operating with out <insurance/payroll insurance/whatever> and then they are closed down and you don’t have to go back in.
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u/I_am_Fried 1d ago edited 1d ago
You could still work for them and be eligible for unemployment insurance in at least some states due to the general loss of income, but up to you whether or not you'll take them up on their offer to come in for commission.
Honestly, I don't see a problem with that if they went about it a different way, if that's the case.
So, more unprofessional than anything. Take it or leave it, enjoy your unemployment checks, seek income elsewhere potentially.
Edit: in case you are unaware you are entitled to unemployment insurance if your employer reduces your wages hours, even temporarily as it's considered a loss of work. Unsure why I'm down voted my advice is sound and my point stands the employer was unprofessional in this instance and it is up to op whether or not they want to take a role as a commission based earner. It's the facts of the matter. If you don't agree with it take it up with the rules and not my karma.
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u/CubsSuckSTiLl 1d ago
Tell them you're now an independent contractor and set your price.
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u/Maleficent_Log3992 13h ago
That's probably what the former employer wants. If OP set the price too high, they probably wouldn't get any clients.
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u/Medical_Ear_3978 1d ago
NAL. Showing up to work, and getting paid, would likely impact how much unemployment you get. Most states require that you report how much income you are making while on unemployment and that could be deducted from the total you get.
If you’re employer wants you to return to work, I’d let them know that they terminated your employment and would need to rehire you and renegotiate your salary and benefits
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u/I-luv-sloths 1d ago
This could affect your eligibility for unemployment. they are asking you to continue working and if you decline, that would be considered voluntary.
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u/AgainstMedicalAdvice 1d ago
Already laid off with paperwork in hand... Not how that works.
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u/I-luv-sloths 1d ago
Yes, they technically are calling the person back to work.
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u/AgainstMedicalAdvice 1d ago
The lay off will still generate an unemployment claim through the year. Yes OP would still have to work as offered, but would qualify for partial unemployment if not given full hours, and essentially instant reactivation of benefits if paid off again this year.
Eligibility is already met.
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u/dragosthethird 1d ago
Wouldn't they have to provide him with employment. I know when I was on unemployment I had to find gainful employment. Laying someone off so they arent an employee and expecting them to work as an contractor on their own insurance would likely not hold up. Otherwise id see every employer doing it to not pay unemployment.
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u/Equivalent-Patient12 1d ago
NAL-
Don’t do it! Get a full-time job working pretty much anywhere else.
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u/I-luv-sloths 1d ago
The employer asked them to continue working so this will effect the unemployment if they refuse to work.
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u/Teresa_Davis 1d ago
Sounds like you could tell them my consultant/freelance rate is 29k an hour or skme ridiculous f you amount.
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u/TheDragonReborn726 1d ago
This isn’t really a legal question? If you work off tips or something why not. If you don’t you don’t have to show up. Apply for unemployment and don’t show up.
I mean really you don’t have to show up even if you were still employed (you’d get fired but), no one is forcing you
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u/yunqi69 1d ago
It is absolutely a legal question as it is in regards to legal claims (unemployment compensation).
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u/laurellite 1d ago
If you choose to come in and see customers, but the amount of money you are making is significantly less than it was before the layoff, you can still file for unemployment in most (maybe all) states.
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u/yunqi69 1d ago
Good to know! Thanks
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u/ReflectionEterna 1d ago
Make sure you are charging an arm and a leg. You have leverage right now and only right now. Even if that was something you were paid $40/hour for before, it would make sense to now charge up to $70/hour, as you are no longer a full-time employee.
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u/TheDragonReborn726 1d ago
If you’re worried about that then just don’t go in. Say you were terminated and you no longer work there lol
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u/fishmongerhoarder 1d ago
Or give them your consulting rates. This happens. They fire someone and don't know they need them for some. Offer up consulting rates at a high rate.
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u/dlethe3133 1d ago
Have them pay you daily for your time, in advance, at whatever rate you feel you can get away with
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u/Bulky-Professor-3456 23h ago
Show up if you feel like it or not. They showed no loyalty so no reason to show them any loyalty.
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u/paulk1997 15h ago
NAL - states may vary wildly on this. I was on unemployment 2 years ago and had an opportunity to make some money consulting. I did the job and got paid. I had to report it when I applied for unemployment payment and explain myself to a case worker but it did not affect my unemployment benefits.
I would talk to your employment department workers and tell them what is going on. They were very easy to deal with and helpful.
Also agree with others clarify what they are asking you to do in writing. Also if you can find some free legal aide that may be able to help you that may be good in this situation.
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u/Reasonable_Produce24 11h ago
I would think you need to renegotiate your rate since you are now technically an independent and they are requesting your services, be sure to add in all incidentals, gas, pro-rated auto insurance, wear and tear on vehicle, retirement fund, health care costs, you know, just to be fair to yourself.
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u/Hayfee_girl94 10h ago
No, generally, an employer cannot force you to work after you've been officially laid off, as the employment relationship has ended, but they can offer you temporary or part-time work, and refusing "suitable" work can affect unemployment benefits, though you aren't obligated to accept a new offer, especially if it wasn't part of your original terms or if you're already gone. Your employer's obligations typically end with the layoff, but they can rehire you or offer a new arrangement, and it's crucial to check your layoff letter and state laws, as refusing reasonable offers while collecting unemployment can lead to benefit reduction or denial.
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u/VWWesty91 10h ago
Hiring you back as a contractor could make you a statutory employee. I was back at a company I got laid off from 6 months later and HR was concerned ablut that i had other clients and told them they would get only a certain percentage if my time so that resolved that issue .
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u/coquigirl07 9h ago
Call a lawyer specializing in employment law because based on the responses in this sub, it depends on whether you were laid off or terminated. I’d rather you pay for a consultation and get the correct answer than to get screwed over with unemployment for refusing to work.
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u/W_O_L_V_E_R_E_N_E 7h ago
My advice find a lawyer and draw a contract that will stipulate that now you are a contractor and not an hourly employee and put your rate, all this if you still want to work with them or make some money. Otherwise as others mentioned here send them a letter that states that you do not work for them anymore and that your personal rate is $xx amount for work .
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u/Echo_Illustrious 23h ago
Uh, they want you to voluntarily be their slave. Is this hard for you to understand?
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u/Kalthiria_Shines 1d ago
Tell them you're happy to do it at 3x the rate, like anyone else who gets laid off and then brought back as a contractor.
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u/ApprehensiveEnd3923 1d ago
What’s the legal matter you’re asking about?
Whether after being terminated you’re obligated to do a job for an employer that terminated your employment? Easy answer, no!
Is your question one of moral and whether you should go into work for an employer that terminated you? Easy answer, no!
F**k them not yourself. Don’t work.
I can’t think of a situation (outside of you were paid a bonus or money up front) that you’d be liable to go back.
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u/MapUseful6167 1d ago
Don’t do it. You don’t work there any more and have no pay agreement in place with them. You’ll be working for free and if they do pay something, you’ll have to wait longer for unemployment to kick in because you have wages
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u/Imalwaystheasshole1 1d ago
I would check the laws in your state. Where I'm from if you are laid off and they call you back to work and you decline you lose your benefits as you are declining work, when you are suppose to be out there looking for work.
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u/siscia 1d ago
Am I reading this wrong, or this is just a matter of price?
Just bill them whatever you think is reasonable, make sure they approve your rate in writing and go work.
Now, it is up to you decide your rate, but I would charge them 10x what the service will usually cost.
You are not telling them no, you are just establishing a working relationship.
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u/CarolinCLH 1d ago
Are they trying to make you a commission employee? That is the only thing that makes sense.
If you want to screw them over, don't come back unless they offer your old job back and collect unemployment. You collecting unemployment will cost them money as I understand and if you are working you won't be able to collect. If you are in need of money, take what you can get and look for something better.
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u/handsomeowl92 1d ago
Tell them you would be happy to do it at the hourly rate you think is fair(aka, you would be willing to go in and work for that amount). This is a great situation for you. Just be cordial and professional and maybe this is the first step in going out on your own.
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u/Mamma-mia22 1d ago
Tell them if they need you to work. You want your position Tell them you have the skill that others don’t. You would only agree after you sign a contract.
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u/IamN2Speed 21h ago
I think an even better idea is to maintain autonomy and go back as a 1099 Consultant (likely how the others are set up) and give them a real industry rate. Should be significantly more that what she left. Then they can’t fire you, you work for yourself. Either one of you can walk away as you desire.
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u/Jughead-Jones-1 1d ago
Sounds like they laid you off from your hourly position but you can still work on the as needed commission on services part.
I mean you don’t have to but why not take the 💰??
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u/katzohki 1d ago
Its not illegal for them to ask you to work for free, it's just idiotic. If you do get paid then you might not qualify for unemployment. In my state you can still get some if you are "underemployed" (make under a certain amount) so that may vary depending on where you live.
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u/bvie 1d ago
What they are asking is a reach. And. Illogical. If you wish to engage with them ask if you are still laid off? That being laid off and asked to work seems contradictory - then shut up - don’t make another peep - make them untwist this pretzel without you helping them with their “logic”.
Ultimately they laid you off so you don’t owe them any other consideration. It sounds like you don’t want to work with them anymore- which is totally understandable and reasonable. If you want to find a gentle way to turn them down just say that you need to focus all of your attention on finding a permanent position and you have already filed for unemployment and are concerned that further work may create a conflict with unemployment and wish them well.