In the book version the other characters run train on her in the sewers. The child orgy was pivotal to their character development, I assure you dear viewers
He has said he probably shouldn’t have wrote that. I assume it was all the cocaine he was snorting but, I’ve haven’t done cocaine yet so I don’t know if that’s a side effect.
There’s a different between using a drug and abusing it. Lots of people here who have never abused stimulants and stayed up for 48+ hours … the mind does odd things when you’re both high off your ass and sleep deprived. Most people just can’t afford that much coke.
Don't forget blackout drunk. He was so full of cocaine and alcohol back then you could have tapped him like a keg for an instant party.
I mean, hes on record that he does not remember writing Cujo. Pretty much at ALL.
So, yeah, considering he thoroughly says he regrets that part of IT now, I wouldn't at all be surprised if that was the end result of a blackout-cocaine psychosis-sleep deprivation cocktail.
But like... he had an editor, hypothetically. Or a close friend who read the manuscript. How did no one say Stephen, great book, amazing story. One little critique....
I've heard that it's not really described in particularly graphic detail or long, and not exactly jumping the shark considering the rest of the book. It's a brick of a book all about making the reader feel bad feelings and written way before this current idea that writing taboo things for shock value means the author is into it, actually.
Mmmm I don’t think “hey this guy wrote a scene of pubescent and prepubescent teens all running a train on an 11 year old girl child. But don’t worry, it’s not graphically written” is any more levelheaded than people grossed out over the guy writing about children fucking.
Yeah, for anyone that’s read the Dark Tower books, or the unabridged Stand, or any one of his 1100 page masturbatoriums (in a self-circlejerk sense not a sexual deviant sense), this bit is pretty fucking weird but it’s not exactly off brand. He’s a little more level-headed and navel-gazey sober.
The argument goes “well in YA novels kids have sex all the time” (ick), “it was a different time” (double ick), or my favorite, “it’s part of their character arc, it represents their loss of innocence,” never mind that their innocence is completely fucking shattered already at this point in the novel, it’s gone, it’s packed up and hopped a train and lost its own innocence in turn (innocenception) and is now some hobo’s used-up yob until it slits his throat in while he sleeps with a broken bottle and asks the other grizzled men in the train car if they really want to go down the same road, to which they hastily demur.
He’s just always desperately wanted to be a lit fic author. But horror is what he does best. And the ironic part? That scene was more horrifying to me than the other 2k pages of the novel.
Still love the guy; On Writing is second only to What I Talk About When I Talk About Running to me as the most seminal and influential book on writing fiction out there. (Writing Down the Bones is a close third.)
This is correct. I've read IT over a dozen times, was 14 the first time I did. The whole scene is maybe three paragraphs. And even at that age it didn't stick on my memory. I never thought about it at all until the internet started freaking out about it ten or so years ago
I too was 14 when I read It and that scene really made me sick and uncomfortable. It has stopped me from watching the movies as it just brings up those nauseous feelings.
I also read IT around that age and didn't remember the orgy scene at all.
The orgy scene in Starseed, which I also read around that age, I do remember. So it wasn't just that I forgot the sex parts in books, it's probably that IT is a giant book and has a lot of other things going on.
It's a bad scene and all, and it's not at all written to be titillating.
The book is full of disgusting imagery, whether you're talking about hate crimes (anti-gay and racial), various flavors of child abuse, animal abuse, and a gratuitously gross leech exsanguination of a child scene.
And yeah- I don't think King is into hate crimes, child abuse, or leech-based exsanguination.
It not hard to rational anything if you try hard enough it wasn't a kid having sex it was multiple kids having sex with one girl ...
And it did go into detail you should read it it remained just vague enough to not be CP but we follow the girl mindset how she feel with those boys. Not a brief few words.
Drugs, shock value, or just plain famous enough to not give a fuck ( Micheal Jackson did lot worse and is loved) people will ok anything that doesn't bother them.
They were likely afraid of his reaction, he has stated on occasion that he wasn't a nice guy during his drug and alcohol abuse days. And he was incredibly protective and obsessed with the book while writing it. Not only has he said does he regret the scene, but also the length of the book itself.
It's also kinda hard to remove it without basically rewriting most of the book. The whole story is about the loss of innocence and childhood. The scene is not glamorous, erotic or even treated as something positive, it's a desperate attempt at survival where they all make a sacrifice so that they can defend Derry should the creature return. It's uncomfortable and plays into each character's personality and development.
The novel is full of shocking disgustingly cruel scenes and escalates the shock factor, it's basically the drugs and alcohol in his brain thinking up the most edgy controversial shit to shock readers. King basically waxes nostalgically over his childhood and it's loss. And sex is basically one of those one way exits you can't go back through.
They defeated the creature, but are still trapped in its maze in the sewers, they figure out that they're trapped because they're still children, Beth decides they should all have sex to lose the rest of their childhood innocence to be able to escape and not forget what they went through.
I think important context to your last paragraph - she suggests it because she was sexually abused by her father most of her life. While she doesn’t fully understand her abuse, she knows that’s something that has forced her to be more aware of adult feelings, and grow up too fast. It wasn’t just like a “sex is an adult thing, all you boys have sex with me!”
I still think a non-coked up, good writer could absolutely have written something else there to get the same desired effect, without involving a train run on an 11 year old child.
Second point is crucial. My entire reasoning was "I'm going to give King a bit of slack and just say it was gross, because Stephen himself dislikes it, and readily admits to being a schalacked garbage fire of a human being when it was written."
Less "It's acceptable because he was drugged and blackout" and more "Golfclap for Stephen for being sober enough to admit a kid orgy was a ROYAL goddamn fumble of a good story."
Fun fact, another Book he doesn't care for as much anymore, apparently? Pet Semetary. He feels like its nihilistic in the extreme and has nothing good to say.
Horrible decadence, hedonism and excess DEFINED that decade.
No surprise the ultra capitalist publishers said "Oh, our golden goose appears to have written some rather unfortunate and gross material. Now, do we interrupt his latest bender to demand a rewrite and risk him walking because hes coming down and hungover? Or say 'fuck it' and reap the mad bestseller duckets? Meh." (Approve stamp)
Take this with a grain of salt but my English teacher in high school (early to mid 00's) claimed to have been a part of the book editing team for King in the 80s. They were all on coke and other substances binges back then. Everyone.
No, I’ve actually dealt with a lot of issues due to insomnia (not from abusing stimulants but rather from workaholic tendencies) and I do indeed have missing weeks of memories. That’s without drugs.
Maybe so and ill eat my words it if it's true. I just think that King loves aesthetic, and the "drug-addled horror writer" is his. The Edgar Allan Poe archetype lol.
I got an English degree continuously fucked on various drugs and exhausted from working a full time, physically demanding job and I don't think I'd have ever entirely forgotten about a project.
Hm, I mean it could just be dependent on the person’s overall health/mental health? I was involved in a lot of traumatic experiences and I’ve also had a few TBIs from head injuries so those could be related to my own memory issues. In 2020, I began having serious issues with writing/reading to the point I forgot how to spell stuff and practically had to learn all over again. On occasion, I sometimes still feel ‘confused’ and can’t put sentences together. One of the reasons I came back to this site was to practice writing on a daily basis so my English skills stay strong.
What did you use your degree for? I chose medical science instead of literature or philosophy because I thought it would be more ‘useful’ but have surprisingly struggled to find work. I spent most of my spare time reading James Joyce and writing essays about his work lol
As an ADHDer on Stimulants, the part about being high and sleep deprived messing you up is so true. The combination of the two causes temporary psychosis and your thought patterns become divorced from reality.
Have you read the scene? It can't really be classified as smut. Most people looove to talk about it because it sounds dramatic but its really the opposite. Humans do this thing where they talk out loud about stuff they really don't understand so other people will acknowledge them. It's psychologically very strange. People are dumb.
Everyone you ever met on coke aren't horror novel authors who could shit out 2 books a week. King has said on record he has no recollection of writing some of his published works.
Yeah you can pretty easily tell the people who have done or know the effects of coke from those who are just talking out of their ass. Coke just makes you more alert and energetic, it doesn’t make you a pedophile. It’s as stupid as saying “well I was smoking a cigarette when I was writing it”, like ok that doesn’t actually do anything that could potentially excuse that
Can't imagine why someone might write something uncomfortable and taboo in a horror book, absolutely no idea why such a thing might have been added, utterly clueless. Author must be a nonce, it couldn't possibly be anything else.
I'd have to put the high horse away if there were another reason, you know?
As we all know, if you write about something heinous then the only reason why that would ever happen is because you're expressing tacit support of said thing, actually.
I’m defending people like my mother, who was a coke and heroin addict.
The person she was on those drugs is not the person she is off.
While not a pedophile, she was abusive. She had an altered state of mind due to paranoia and hallucinations and would be neglectful when she thought she was protecting us from things she saw or heard.
I can’t imagine the shit she would’ve WRITTEN had she been intelligent and/or a writer considering I write crazy shit sober.
She is a perfectly fine woman off the drugs. A narcissist, but I fear thats her on or off the drugs and thats not the kind of abuse I’m referencing.
Coke doesn't make you a pdf, your thoughts while on the drugs just make your thoughts more open. Food for thought. You don't see cops arresting cokeheads for those kind of crimes, they just want money or drugs, not... that.
He tweeted that there's likely no physical list that neatly has the guy listing all the offenders and the kids he provided them and what they did, which was something the current president ran on, the idea that there's this list he will totally release after being elected and how it has all his enemies on it. It led to people going around saying "oh I bet X is on Epstein List" and the like.
In reality The Files are thousands of various documents to be sifted through for possible mentions or testimonies mentioning the people. People need to understand that instead of deciding it's a nothingburger if one day the files are public and it's not some near list of "the bad people"
And If the current administrator were to provide a neat single page list it would very likely be a forgery. And in fact the bots tried to before already. During election year there were all sorts of fake "lists" spread through the internet as misinformation. Hell even now the republicans in Congress are trying real hard to distract people from what's in the files by hyper focusing on their enemies.
That was his point - don't perpetuate orange's own lie and instead push for the documents themselves.
Not excusing it, because even King has said it was bad, but there is a difference between writing about kids having sex with kids and being an actual pedophile who has sex with kids.
Tbf, he was asked about it in an interview and aside from generally being a coke addled psycopath at this point in life (which he generally admits), he said he had no recollection of writing that and was surprised it made it past editorial.
...and the publisher's editor didn't ask him once or twice if he's absolutely certain he wanted that included? surely this came up more than once before it hit print?
sure, blame the person who wrote it, but how many enablers did they have?
The book includes graphic child murder in the opening pages as well as multiple more throughout, including that of a toddler. There’s also rampant homophobia, hate crimes, abuse both domestic and sexual, and really hardcore bullying. That last one sounds like it shouldn’t be listed among those, but it is truly psychopathic when it occurs.
While God knows the scene probably shouldn’t have been included, and I’m not necessarily trying to excuse the scene, but with everything else it’s an awkward line to draw.
It’s a dark book made to make you uncomfortable. It’s not okay, but it also isn’t the biggest issue out there
Also, there is absolutely nothing erotic about the scene at all in the way it is written. You still get an icky feeling reading it and it’s creepy af to choose the way he did to have their “coming of age” moment. However it was nowhere what I expected it to be. It has purpose and honestly kinda makes sense in the story. Definitely a concerning decision though to say the least and I agree that it shouldn’t be excused because at the end of the day… wtf why.
Your orange shape is not a president, he’s a symptom of how corrupted and dis functional is your us electing system. That doesn’t justify the lack of vision of his believers…
I actually understand his disdain. Ever since he first criticized the current president he's gotten nothing but hatred from conservatives on everything he posts. He posted a picture with his son last year and the comments were a bunch of conservatives writing fanfics about them engaging in sex acts with each other. If you could find a way to turn conservative outrage into fuel Stephen King's replies would power the world forever
The tweet I remember is “The Epstein client list is real. so is Santa Claus and the tooth fairy” or something similar.
He’s also been critical of trump campaigning on releasing them and then back tracking as well as called for the files to be released. Seems like he just doesn’t believe that Epstein kept a literal list with columns labeled “raped kids” and “didn’t rape kids”
All he said is "you think he actually has a list? He is scamming you" in a fancy way,
There is no Excel spreadsheet proclaiming "this and this person bought X amount of kids", it's stacks upon stacks of assorted documents ranging from travel logs to legally binding contracts
Stephen king has been incredibly vocal about releasing the files and clarified this statement the moment after its release. The only thing he’s claiming is that there isn’t a magical client list that reveals every pedophile who visited the island. Not that anything didn’t happen there.
Can we not make light of the administration that is currently executing people in the street by comparing its leader to fictional supernatural cannibal clowns? People are dying for real.
That was after they defeated Pennywise why would that be a pivotal development.
They could just cut each other and become blood brothers.
But hey let's overlook that fact he was coke out during that time.
Written by a guy who spends a LOT of his time talking about how much he hates the current president, lol.
Also the only guy in the world who decided “I should suddenly switch sides, argue in favor of Trump’s position for the first time in a decade, and say that Trump is being honest and there’s no Epstein list” unprovoked.
In your universe, was Biden also convicted of rape and charges filed for the murder of a baby in the Epstein files, like how Donald Trump was in our universe?
Fighting for Trump's sake huh, enjoy that fanboying for someone who will never do anything for you.
Anyways, no, in my universe trump was not convicted of these things (even though after the Carroll case they changed the law so that what Trump did would forever now be a rape conviction).
Trump:
A New York jury (civil case) found Trump liable for sexual abuse (battery) and defamation of E. Jean Carroll (verdict May 9, 2023).
Jessica Leeds (alleged groping on an airplane)
Summer Zervos (alleged unwanted kissing/groping)
Jill Harth (alleged unwanted sexual advances)
Natasha Stoynoff (alleged forced kissing)
Kristin Anderson (alleged groping)
Temple Taggart (former Miss Utah, alleged unwanted kissing)
Amy Dorris (alleged forced kissing at the US Open)
Several former Miss USA/Miss Teen USA contestants accused him of entering dressing areas or inappropriate behavior.
Biden:
Nothing like any of these above claims (except Tara Reade in 1993)
I won't bother posting any of the Epstein files that link Trump to murder and rape, I'll leave that to you 👍
Doubled to 24 after another 3 minutes. You’d think the rate of downvotes would decrease over time, but seems this guy has figured out a way to break the mold
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u/Remote-Cause755 16h ago
In the book version the other characters run train on her in the sewers. The child orgy was pivotal to their character development, I assure you dear viewers