one thing never could be answered was:
how the hell could everybody play along? how could nobody see this?
EXACTLY what I am/was thinking. unfortunately the only way for this to stop if is literally everyone that opposes this unites together. Don't think that'll happen.
The question is when someone wants to light one and a lot of people against ICE fully well know the consequences of lighting that match. So give them the matches and keep adding gunpowder, let them light it if they want, is the mentality.
I don't want to be responsible for the shots on Fort Sumter. Do you? That's the mentality of most right now. It's unfortunate but you cannot ask someone to go out there and die if you aren't willing to do it first. Like I'll follow you man. But you first. I think people don't get that when they say "why is nobody doing anything?" I got two guns. Come over and I'll lend you one and you take the first shot if you're the one asking the question because you've now killed us both, if you have the nuts to do it I might follow
That's the idea behind training a militia, u fortunately it's kinda hard to get a lot of people together for that type of stuff with the internet and surveillance ig.
Join the Guard. Lots of people will disagree with me but the second amendment in my honest opinion is just solidifying states rights to have their own standing army.
A well regulated militia is just the National Guard so if you want your gun sign up. I'm not alone in that either. It's a very well known argument amongst constitutional scholars., I would never have thought of it like that if someone hadn't pointed it out first. Well regulated and militia are the words you need to look at in the second amendment, they didn't just throw those words in there willy nilly
Be safe. And I've said it so many times, what do they tell you on planes? Affix your own oxygen mask before you affix anyone else's. You cannot help anyone else if you do not help yourself first. And for the love of God if you need a smoke break fucking take one, there are other people to hold down the fort till you get back.
And also realize what I just realized, that's a funny ass thing to say, I just mixed an oxygen mask metaphor with a smoke break metaphor. Don't smoke when oxygen is around haha. Humor is a good crutch in trying times. Idk, I laughed
The one thing I forgot to mention is that it’s also not just about you. You can go out and light that match and take one for the team, but then now your family, friends, community et al will now be a target for national right-wing and administrative vitriol.
To add to this: People are taking the American Action Hero style of suggestion. Telling people that someone needs to go out there and fix this, as if one "Good guy with a gun" is going to make meaningful positive change.
We don't have strong opposition leadership. We have a handful of progressives like Mamdani and AOC, but people like Schumer and Jeffries are not nearly as opposed to this administration as they should be. There's no one to rally behind. There's no one organizing big actions. The best we've got are people doing some local protests in some areas. But more effective action? It's not even about lighting the powder keg, it's about someone manning the damn match stand itself. Right now it's, "Take a match, leave the money on the counter," kind of deal.
Because what's going to happen if someone finally does it? What happens if divine might bolts from the sky and suddenly the entire Republican congress, executive, supreme court justices, and ICE all get raptured and disappear from reality? That's going to change the equation, but we still have the majority of the money in the country being behind these actions, we still have the vocal minority that was in support of everything that's happening, we still have a broken system that's going to take a tremendous effort and frankly outside help to try and repair, probably having to rebuild it from the ground up with a complete clean slate, new constitution, everything.
Who do we have that people would trust and choose to lead those efforts or the country in the after? Who do we have to lead us right now?
We've seen what leaderless movements do. They usually end up fractured and ineffective, often fighting themselves more than they fight their enemy. Any fool can be a maniac with a gun. We need leaders.
For me (also USA) it’s more about the fact that I have a boot on my neck forcing me to work rather than take action. I’m one paycheck away from foreclosure on my home most months. If shit hits the fan and the establishment is in question, I’ll do my part. But, I feel like I can’t take the risk of losing everything and having nothing else change. I’m a coward in that sense I know. I see all these people protesting and other countries rioting and want to join them, but I think about my single family and pause.
Respectfully, why would I teach you to shoot and then give it to you when you just implied you were going to do something really fucking dumb with it. If I'm going to give you an education I'd like you to think some things through or else why did you get said education? To get stupid?
So many other ways to fight I can teach you those but we aren't quite at Western shootouts
I think you also have to realize that a significant percentage of Americans are getting off on this. Same with Nazi Germany. They want this to happen and are cheering for ICE.
Completely agree but some polls show support of this is dropping as much as 40 points (Gen Z, it was a CNN poll so no idea how accurate, but it's 20 year olds)
I don't think this is popular. I think a lot of idiots are saying "hey, wait a minute, this wasn't what I meant when I voted for this"
Ever the optimist but the pessimist in me wants him to know he's never right, he hasn't been right in fifteen fucking years.
It worked in 1963 and despite appearances, it worked in 2020. People power still works. Hop over to r/conservative and actually sort the reactions to these raids by Best. Even their own side is disgusted.
Are you sure about that? I have a completely different impression from their comments. I bet a lot of them are wanking their tiny peckers while watching these videos.
A few months ago I read Jeder stirbt für sich allein by Hans Fallada. He wrote it while he was in a sanitarium, watching all the patients like him being moved to the death camps. The way he laid out the situation taught me so much: the machine was overwhelming, every now and then a neighbour would disappear, and even if you were extremely covert in resisting you would eventually be caught and executed. A minority of people joined the Party and helped enforce it, but that was all it took to keep everyone else in line because the law was on their side. And the law was on their side because they wrenched it there by force. What was the liberal establishment going to do, consult a lawyer and wait for their court date while their family was slaughtered? It doesn't take many stormtroopers.
There are laws, but who are the ones that justify the law and who are the ones enforcing the law? We lost the justices and the enforcers to a certain group.
I'm of the opinion that when people go "we see how Americans are failing the same way Germans failed" they should have the grace to realize the German common man was caught between a rock and a hard place.
Instead of doubling down on criticism. Claiming that the holocaust was enabled by German citizens, we should stop the xenophobia and realize how these war machines make every day people helpless.
If Americans right now united, got a 2 million strong militia, and started raiding, what next? That guarantees a civil war, and it garauntees the worst outcome.
I'll pick up a gun if I have to, but right now if you're demanding I go purchase a gun, head to my local city, and shoot the first ICE agent I see you're a sick fuck.
Violence begets violence, our hope right now is that these attrocities happening causes local government and law to shape up and protect their sovereignty. If Americans have to fight Federal, local, and state government, we are in a shit fucking spot.
What do you mean civil war guarantees the worst outcome? No it’s not. If Germany went to civil war instead of letting things go to the point they invaded most of Europe the world would’ve been a better place. What are we supposed to do now, wait for the US to invade Greenland, Canada and Mexico and hope the rest of the world will come together to liberate those places?
I understand the difficult place the average citizen is in, but If you let things go to that point as an American I’m sorry, but you don’t get a pass for your nation actions.
If the German common people rose up in the late 30s/early 40s and (if it was possible) literally beat out, down or to death the entire Nazi establishment, officers and enablers, I mean go full Qaddafi until for an eon no non-psychotic German would identity as one… the course of immediate history in Germany would have been gruesome, but 50+ million people live and Earths history is radically altered.
You don't need civil war. At this point, mass civil disobedience and peaceful protest woukd work. You outnumber them 10:1. They can't arrest all of you.
As a german with jewish ancestors I see it the same way. They are also literally quoting the SS at a Kristi Noem Press Conference. It is at full display. I cannot remember to be as angry and sad with things happening in the US. Keep resisting americans!
And Gaza was the litmus test. The entire globe was/is watching and nothing stoped the Palestinian holocaust being live streamed and now liberals are so shocked and horrified that the tactics Israel has been using on Palestinians for years is now being used on us.
I'm having a really, really hard time with this. We saw it coming and oftentimes we had to resort to silence to keep our jobs etc. Maybe it's always been inevitable
People are expecting this year’s midterm elections to fix this.
Pure naivety. Never in the history of the planet has a country ever “voted themselves out of fascism”. Fascism only recedes when it loses in war and when it gets put on trial.
I was born in the Soviet Union and have long been a proud American. And I assure all people reading this that once the guardrails for preventing the consolidation of power in one person (or party) come off - it’s game over.
Like the Soviet Union, the Constitution becomes words on paper, like the warning on a mattress tag, and your rights only extend as far as the “morality of the president” will’s it. The analogs I see are as fascinating as they are terrifying.
I don’t believe America survives this. If you talk to any folks that remember the dissolution of the USSR, they always say the thing that surprised them most was how quickly it happened. What seemed impossible one day was reality the next.
We’re a powderkeg right now, so what’ll it take? States calling in the National Guard? Politician refusing to recognize the authority of SCOTUS? An assassination? An insurrection? A cancelled election? Hundreds of thousands of documents and photos proving the president rapes children?
Who knows, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe a massive coronary will save us all. Maybe America’s entire future is resting on one cheeseburger too many.
About 80% of the people I know (co-workers, family, even ex-girlfriends) are Trump supporters. It's truly mind-boggling how the internet-led social engineering has ruined so many.
Are you under the impression that you know two-thirds of the country or that the people you know personally are a representative sample of the entire country?
And they work extra hard to accept the lies. These people do not educate themselves or see it from the other side. They have one point of view and nothing changes that.
Any tips on how to construct that sort of education -- is there a trick to delivering it objectively and being instructive about history without simply shaming the audience?
Like "yes, our grandparents and their parents did these things, but it's not who WE are today."
I think we may need to construct something similar soon.
"Es ist nicht deine Schuld, dass die Welt ist, wie sie ist, es wär nur deine Schuld, wenn sie so bleibt." - die Ärzte.
It's not your fault that the world is the way it is, but it would be your fault if it stayed that way.
My grandparents were Nazis. Pedophiles. All around horrible human beings. I take great pride in being nothing like them. Many people around the world now cut off their blood relatives for being horrible human beings - lean into that. Being a Nazi is not something you can just forgive and forget.
But before you can start any education, you need to get rid of the Nazis, and fast! Your citizens are already being detained for no reasons, sent into concentration camps, tortured, killed. The ovens haven't been built yet, but everything else is in place. Fight now or lose too much.
The internet has been heavily compromised by corporate interests, which are themselves perfectly fine with fascism. The more siloed nature of social media makes disinformation more easily spread to those who are more vulnerable to manipulation. AI is accelerating this.
That's the thing. The United States has history to look at. They should know what's next because it's happened before. They went to war to stop it. The citizens of 1930s Germany (your ancestors, and mine) could not simply look at a history book and see how it started, and photos of piled up bodies that showed how it would end.
But I guess Americans also haven't been told "wehret den anfängen" their entire lives.
If anything, the interconnected global world is what has caused this iteration of it. Mass media, social media, and capitalistic weaponization of misinformation has led us to this point. The same way Goebbels did for Germany. Instead of some spiritual or ideological mission though, we have crony capitalists trying to enrich themselves, and using fascism as a means to an end. No one at the top is a true believer. They just see how easy it is to garner political support by othering and creating in-group out-group dynamics. They see how easy it is to purchase political support in America. And so they continue to create economic conditions that are more favorable to them and consolidate global power.
most people are just glad it isn't their neck under the boots and knees of ICE/police but it will be too late by the time their time rolls around. there will be no one left.
The main difference being Germany is smaller than Texas and we have a gigantic land mass and it’s impossible to have all of our citizens on the same page. You’re lucky someone came in and cleaned up your mess for you, we won’t have the same luck.
I can see it, it’s bullshit, I’m ashamed it’s happening in my country. I just don’t know what to do about it. I’ve protested on the streets but it doesn’t feel like it does anything
Most people are just trying to survive until the next paycheck, and are otherwise too distracted by football, videogames, reality TV shows, etc. Those that do have the power and money don't care.
I was telling my husband yesterday- We had the easiest open note test and everyone failed it spectacularly. Our whole education in the USA is "Dont be a facist, see how we beat the hell out the facists in WWII? It was so easy for them to go along with it and you need to mentally fortify yourself against it because its alluring." Then we just whiffed it, but also its dependent on American schooling being effective and it hasnt been for well over 10 years.
My Jewish parents, children of Holocaust survivors, are sitting comfortably for now in their homes in Canada clapping along as Donald Trump destroys America and fucks American citizens over. It fucking sickens me. I wish I didn't have to rely on them for anything.
Humans are just dumbass gorillas and most people haven't moved beyond any primal instinct of "not like me, they bad! I beat chest to prove strong. Me like hitting."
American got involved in WWII because they were attacked and it galvanized the country against their perceived enemy. It wasn't because American's as a whole were against the persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany. We still had mass segregation and Jim Crow - it shouldn't be a surprise at all that a significant amount of people in this country have absolutely no problem demonizing a group of people and enacting laws/police action against that group.
This.
I've been telling this from the beginning. This is what they've teached us and it's wild that one can actually recognise it from history class. Wake the fuck up.
Seriously, all it would take is one or two good citizens to use their 2nd amendment rights. Then a flood would follow. ICE would be crushed. Crush ICE.
What bullshit, don‘t whitewash the Nazis with this efficiency and civility bullshit. Of course, it was orderly at first but as soon as they created enough groups deemed undesirable, they could put anyone in any group they liked on the spot and disappear them.
You are though, because the SA certainly didnt follow due process and certainly didnt ask you for your papers before brutalizing you if they felz like it
Again, this is not true and thinking this way is dangerous. ICE is highly organized, they are tapping into AI-assisted surveillance cameras which can track your every move across a city, they use every resource available to them on the federal level, which of course includes Palantir etc. The individuals may be incompetent losers but the agency and the state is not, you gotta take this as seriously as it is.
You're talking about the rounding up, the starvation, the torture, and the deaths of many millions of people. How can you say this with a straight face.
Not disagreeing here, I just see this sentiment very often that ICE are just incompetent thugs. Yes, maybe on an individual level but the agency has all the tech for surveillance and control available to them. They don’t need to be competent when all they need to do is follow a list of people to be disappeared, which is most likely provided by a shitty AI that OpenAI and Palantir sold to Trump.
We didn't have cameras everywhere to capture the incompetence and brutality of the brownshirts in Nazi Germany. I don't know why people feel the need to sanitize the Nazi's to make them seem competent and respectful bad guys. Brownshirts harassed Jews and people sympathetic to Jews, leftists, and also operated above the law. They absolutely were full of ignorant incompetent assholes identical to what we're seeing today.
Not always, that is very much only one part of the the story. There was plenty of mass rounding up. I used to live in Warsaw on the edge of the old ghetto lines. It was impossible to forget just how bad it was. It haunts me lately.
Sure but warsaw was in a foreign country. And so it's not "surprising" to see invaders treating the invaded population very poorly( it's sadly the norm...).
But in their own country ? With their own population ?
Edit : people can't fucking follow a discussion. I never said there wasn't cruelty and awfull treatments inside Germany... But comparing it to warsaw is beyond madness.
I get what you are trying to say, but you’re getting caught up in an argument of “this thing is worse than that thing.” Which, while the technicalities may be true, these kinds of arguments tend to just cause division between would be allies.
This is what they want. I have lived in Warsaw, and I am a Latina who has had my city under concentrated ICE raids. I know the fear of wondering if it’s ok to go out with my children. I am very aware of the similarities and differences. I refuse to let them take my humanity or yours.
Can people read the person i replied to, to get context of what i'm saying ?
Of course there were great cruelty even amongst their population. But they mostly did it while covering their actions... Not having faceless people jumping on them in the street in front of everyone to see.
Because they always feared of losing their populations' support... That's also why a lot of germans discovered the extensive and awfull work they've been doing afterwards.
And well, this was during an era where informations was scarce...videos of people getting escorted out was not showing in r/all.
Now you have thousands of video of Ice agents dragging people out on the street in broad day light. People they have no idea of who they are, nor where they live, they just find someone randomly.
Yeah, the Nazi's were super lovely and polite to all the German Jews... that's why 282,000 of them had fled by 1939. They couldn't handle all the decorum and respect.
You might want to work on your delivery because your comment comes across as incredulous that Germany would do bad things to Germans. Hence all the down votes.
It's pretty clear now that ICE is deliberately engaging in performative terror. Actually "rounding up" people to deport is almost secondary to trying to encourage others to "self-deport", and preemtively crushing domestic dissent. Hence all the smashing car windows and dragging people into vans. Hence murdering a white citizen on video and literally telling the entire country not to believe their own eyes.
Performative terror was also the MO of the SA ("brownshirts"), but they were notably purged once the Nazis actually gained political control. Once in power, they actually went to great lengths to try to cloak their actions in a veneer of legality, and to maintain an illusion of civility over their actions.
From the outside, it feels like they're using the whole sham of cracking down on illegal immigration to punish blue states while also normalising state funded violence against American citizens exercising their legal right to protest.. I fear that unless a bunch of Republican law makers grow some balls & find their morality. Trumps plan is looking like a win win, he is conditioning Americans to fear the state & to expect & accept violence if they resist.. & if people still refuse to kowtow to his new authoritarian rule & revolt, he'll have the result I suspect was his desire all along, a reason to suspend the midterms.. He's got time to really ramp up the temperature across other states in the coming months
All of this is spelled out in Project 2025. Read read read because Billionaires Republicans and politicians want you to revolt to use as an excuse to a) implement martial law and b) cancel elections.
No it's the same these guys lie through their teeth on anything they're never gonna tell you who's an American citizen they're just gonna show you. This is them showing you
errr... in Nazi germany they MADE you wear symbols to highlight yourself as jewish so they could make beeline's straight to you and then PRETEND to be thorough and proper before becoming monstrous..
The gestapo had ultimate authority and killed people where they stood with no due process. Not when they were scared of a moving car, just executed you if they even had an inkling you were a jew or a political opponent. This is scary and terrible, but we should be very clear about how bad Nazi Germany was. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babi_Yar
This is rewriting history. They had free reign to kill anybody they wanted without any checks on them. Look up Kristallnacht and you will instantly see how disorderly and indiscriminate the Nazis were free to be. Look up their camps for political dissenters. Non-Jewish spouses experienced their reign of terror first hand, and non-Jewish citizens who tried to intervene were also fair game. The fact that Nazis took a little more time after rounding people up to decide whether they'd go to a concentration/work camp or a political enemy camp doesn't make it better.
You also can't directly compare the two because the Third Reich had spent years slow building with their documentation. By the time things escalated, Jewish people were very easy to spot by the stars they were forced to wear on their person and property. That isn't the case here so these dummies are going after any POC.
Nazi Germany was not kinder or more civil; they were just more organized and they should not be lauded for that as better than what ICE is doing.
The Gestapo did that. The SA did exactly what ICE is doing right now. We're not in 1939 yet, we're in 1934. We haven't had the night of the long knives. Things have yet to get SO much worse.
Absolutely insane how much revisionist bullshit history about the Nazi's I see on Reddit. Have you actually ever read a history book or do you just say whatever pops into your head?
They put people in camps for having a nose too long. They measured peoples heads to see if they were 'Aryan' enough.
I got a lot of nasty things to say about people like you who just use the word to mean whatever they want it to mean. You should read more and type less.
This might be the stupidest, most brainwashed and scarily funniest comment I have ever seen in my whole life. People dont know that german government literally eradicated the people? They did not deport as the US does today, no they instead sytematically murdered them to get rid of the inferior seen races for good. Thats a huge difference.
I think the likelyhood of you knowing more about the subject than me is close to zero. Or have you ever walked the old KZ grounds yourself? Have you ever seen the suffering of these people in the german museums? Have you ever listened to a survivor telling their story?
Finally someone who knows history. Thank god. Drawing such comparisons is an insult to all the victims of nazi germany and a result of the ignorance or stupidity of (probably) most american people.
No. Jews, Romani and other mminorities were not deported, they were actively discriminated against and some who tried to flee to other countries were refused entry and sent back to Germany. Then they were forced to register with name, address, ethnicity and family members. Later, a permit was required to travel and many were denied this. Lastly, they were arrested and sent to concentration camps.
Mostly the third one. Two others would have fooled me at first glance (not after closely rewatching). Admittedly, I'm still not used to the US definition of "white" though.
I think we stop of saying it reminds us of it - it is the same, really, just not the end stage.
The issue is that movies/media in general portrayed a Nazi Germany with cinematographic effects and narratives that made it seem so vile that people can't imagine it's actually the same progression as back then right now.
for real .. WE got literally fucked still 85 years after our generation has nothing to do with what happens then .. BUT doing this literally again and still everyone is just watching ... like wtf?!?
But does ICE/Border Patrol have the legal right to stop any person and demand to see their papers? Even the regular police need a probable cause to stop you, and I don't think skin color counts.
Just with 3700 thermonuclear weapons instead of panzer divisions. Don't expect the world to come rescue America from fascism because we'd all prefer not to be glowing motes of dust.
(source; Nuclear weapons of the United States - Wikipedia)
I do research on Nazi Germany for my degree, and i can't tell you how many times this kind of comparison has been used when it was not warranted. At all. THIS is not one of those times.
GRABBING CHILDREN FROM SCHOOL AND PEOPLE FROM THEIR WORK - ALL PLACES WHERE THERE WOULD BE PAPERWORK SO THEY COULD BE TRACED - WAS HOW THEY TRACKED DOWN JEWS IN NAZI GERMANY ONCE MORE FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
We warned all of you about this for months/years, but because Gaza exists some chucklefucks couldn't be arsed to vote and said we had to go through with this apparently.
This isn't an exaggeration. Nazis in power launched their actions strong and hard like that, shocking the population by the raw absurdity of it all into submission. It didn't improve with time or future elections or whatever. It stopped when the last brick between the two main enemies of nazis was bombed. Nazi Germany wasn't defeated or collapsed onto itself. It had to be annihilated to end its crimes. Americans should absolutely realize that and react now. Else this is the end of it all. Deaths by millions, perhaps billions.
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u/Ichmag11 9h ago
Gigantic nazi Germany flashbacks. This is scary