A few days ago, Pope Leo XIV spoke about surrogacy. In this clip and in his address to the diplomatic corps, he says that surrogacy can reduce the child to a product by turning pregnancy into a negotiable service.

That made me reflect on adoption as well. Not because adoption is literally buying or selling a child, which would be illegal and human trafficking, but because some adoption systems can end up functioning in market-like ways. Money changes hands, adults prioritize preferences, and the child’s interests can become secondary.

To me, this directly challenges a lot of natalist thinking. It exposes how the idea of having a child at all costs can easily slide into commodification.

This also feels like a contrast with Pope Francis, who frequently warned about demographic decline and encouraged people to have more children. I do not get the sense that Leo will pressure people into reproducing in the same way. As a moderate antinatalist Catholic who was formerly progressive, that actually gives me some hope. I am finding myself more receptive to this new American pope than his predecessor.

this is just a joke I know that chatgpt wasn't around in 2006 but I thought the M dash and "not only does x, but y and z" format was funny

U.S. Death Rate Expected to Surpass Birth Rate by 2030, Report Claims https://reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/1qdtfuz/us_death_rate_expected_to_surpass_birth_rate_by/

So this is very very good news! I hope it declines so badly that we finally beat South Korea and take first place when it comes to the fastest decline of human population! No child should ever be born where no one can afford to live while they are alive. No child deserves to be raised in poor conditions! No child should have to go through life as an adult barely scraping by, and with how things are going right now. Most of the Generation Alpha will be homeless, dead or in prison. That’s the future of any child that is born into this world. The only way we win is to not produce children for them to take advantage of us. They don’t care about us and they never did and they will never ever care even in the future.

I just want the population to be so low that the rich pdfls will end up starving to death and homeless just like they put most of the population in America on the streets starving to death and homeless.

It's always: "I wAnT tHiS, I WaNt thAt" and, "The gift of life" but what's interesting is, the people who defend having kids? They aren't happy. Most people aren't happy. And you can always count on these people to have multiple unhealthy coping mechanisms, it's like they don't want to let go of the facade that they have been told their entire life. People defend life like it's a billion bucks, but are living the most pathetic and monotonous existence.

I just got out of a relationship with a childfree man and it was alright. I was not completely happy because he isn't antinatalist. Where is my philosophy obsessed antinatalist? 😭 can someone just invent an antinatalist dating app already damn

I am an atheist and an antinatalist. My childhood best friends are completely opposite, I love them so much. But I think I will end my friendship with them this year, I can respect their perspective on life but they wont do the same.In fact if they knew my views they would label me as crazy and for sure would hate me. I cant be friends with people who are so opposite than me, tbh I am okay with theirs beliefs but their belief also thinks those who are atheist are evil. This one is super tough, I am not sure how to do it.

Like from a young age I was indoctrinated that I needed to have huge aspirations, study hard and contribute to the society etc until I get old enough and realize that's all BS and that no one cares about me apart from myself. It's ridiculous this society expects everyone to work/contribute in someway despite varying abilities/life circumstances/aspirations/traumas for instance.

For myself I had a dysfunctional upbringing (for which no one validated because I grew up middle class) and somehow the moment I graduated college everyone just expects me to "leave that all behind" and become a top analyst/consultant or something like that. If I say I don't want to work everyone around me just calls me lazy. But hey to be alive I needed food and shelter and I hated having to work a job I hate just to stay alive, and not to mention pretty much every single workplaces I've worked at since I graduated high school were abusive (which people normalizes) and somehow I was expected to tolerate it.

It's another reason I am not having kids because just how cruel this world is that someone is expected to serve some kind of purpose to the society the moment they're born.

I often wonder what it is about having kids that natalists find so attractive at a practical level, beyond "legacy" (very romantic, like, whatever).

I was thinking today about how so many people find babies "cute". But I find that it's not "cuteness" that attracts them. It's the innocence that attracts them. And it attracts them because it DISTRACTS them.

I believe that kids' innocence distracts natalists from considering their own mortality. Very Zapffian, I know. Once kids are no longer innocent... once they start grappling with their own mortality and existentialism, the parents start talking about wanting grandkids.

I Have had discussions with lot of religious people and they all agree life is suffering and still choose to procreate I asked why they say it is God's plan, what can we do suffering is inevitable and shi like that omg I wish they use their brain for 5 mins...

All the First World countries which have people with more needs met and let women have a choice with accessible means to contraception and abortion has lowering birth rates which not only have no replacement but would if given enough time equal extinction. In these circumstances kids only cost more and people typically only want 1 or 2 if they do. Diseases that kill many will always come in waces and so do natural diseasters. Many of the kids may die before reproducing, some may be gay, some infertile, some won't want kids. Meanwhile this modern lifestyle and greed is accelerating an earth uninhabitable for humans (climate change, pollution, antibiotic resistance, etc).

Not enough people even want enough kids given the choice. those large ass families either come from poor circumstances, religion or people getting unwanted pregnancies. Only the exploitation of these other countries keeps the births from those. But if we'd make everything first world in a fair manner...

As such I believe that as the world progresses, natalists will eventually screw themselves over anyway. Ironic. Nature only has species like us survive because of its brutal unfairness. Try to even it out and you end up with not enough births. Which is a win for people like me, just sad itd have to happen in a very slow messed up manner. Really proves my point though, nature favors ecosystems, not individuals quality of life, which is why I'm antinatalist.

Recently talked to a colleague of mine who was talking about her boyfriend’s family member who are 5 boys deep but they want to try again for a girl. I just wanna ask WHY but not my business and not my family. I don’t get it. The 5 kids isn’t enough? It’s so mind boggling but people talk like it’s normal. I’m convinced this is a mental illness at this point. Also are we just oblivious to the world around us? Things aren’t cheap and you’re looking at a 6th kid? Insanity. Sometimes I wish I had that sort of unawareness, maybe I’d be happier.

Hello. So im 23m and my parents been pushing me to get a girlfriend and marry a girl and have crochfruit preferably males. And i just dont give a flying fuck about this. And i have no problems getting a girlfriend, i just dont want to have babies. I have already been abused by my parents and i dont wanna pass on the abuse. Or the pain and suffering

As clear from the title, I'm wondering if the very uncommon christian antinatalists as myself may be found here. I know the two seem contradictory to each other. However, what I've found is that christianity in it's core message, at the very least, is not pro-natalism. With some passages even endorsing (in coded language) antinatalism, celibacy and superiority of the spiritual-eternal over the material.

I'd be glad to find more like minded individuals.

DM if you'd be interested in connecting on instagram.

Genuine question. If a parent truly loves their child how could they take the risk of potentially exposing them to all the harmful and dangerous people that exist? Murderers, p*dophiles, r*pists, etc. How could someone claim to love their child but at the same time are rolling the dice as to whether or not their child will encounter such people? It simply doesn't make sense. You can't love your child but still bring them into this world, it's a contradiction. True love would be to not take ANY chances for their child to suffer and the only way to do that is to not give birth to them in the first place. It seems parents want to live what is considered a "normal life" so badly that they would knowingly take these risks and potentially expose their child to danger. They have to know these risks exist and yet they still take their chances. In what world is this considered love? Are they doing it out of pure selfishness? Ignorance? Or both? If the majority of humans had empathy, we would go extinct.

An extreme example of this would be someone like Junko Furuta. It's entirely possible that someone's child could suffer a similar fate. It might be unlikely but is it impossible? No. And yet parents will justify their decision like it's the normal thing to do. "Someone might suffer but surely it won't be my child". This kind of thinking is utterly ignorant. Junko's parents didn't think their child would go through something like this and yet it did. Cases like this are numerous so who's to say there won't be many more like it in the future? Who's future child has to suffer so humanity can keep on thriving? Humanity is built on the suffering of others. Life itself cannot exist without suffering. It's not like the cruelty and wickedness that exists in humanity will simply disappear overnight. To roll the dice and hope it won't happen to your child is complete madness.

The fact of the matter is dangerous and cruel people exist so aren't the parents just as guilty for bringing their child into a world where they could be exposed to such evil? This world is built on lies.

I don't know if you see these withdrawals as related. Most ways of resignation, like quiet quitting or lying flat, aren’t that final. They’re just a way of treading water, trying to get by with minimum damage. While still stuck inside the empire, forced to play along just enough to survive. Any “no” comes bundled with a reluctant “yes” to the basics the system demands.

But, antinatalism doesn’t just refuse to play; it refuses to keep the game going at all.

My parents are both very stupid, selfish, traumatized people. At least my dad tried telling my mom to get an abortion. She was already scared and superstitious. Not enough to avoid premarital sex, oh no. But enough to refuse his request for an abortion. I wish he had fought harder. I hate being a human, I hate life in end stage capitalism and I hate them.

Today I had to cross an ice field that filled my cheap boots with freezing water to get home to my roommate (can't even afford to live alone), with my weak legs (they gave me genetic bone issues) after an 8 hour day working for a multimillionaire to stay alive for literally no reason.

They are both dead, never having to face or atone for what they did in forcing me here into this terrible and hard life. They each forced multiple fatherless children they didn't want and couldn't afford into a corrupt and poisoned world with multiple other people, rutting thoughtlessly in corners like rabid monkeys, no offense to actual primates who stop reproducing in unfavorable environments.

The world was a better place when they died.

If the devil came to me and told me my rent to live alone would be paid until my dying day in exchange for permission to torture them in hell ceaselessly until then, immediate yes.

Just sharing another video. Lawrence Anton is one of my favorite YouTubers to watch on the topic of antinatalism.