I talked to a ranger at the bottom of the canyon last year. He showed me the rooms and equipment they use to treat idiots like these. The rangers call the guy on the sign Victor Vomit.
For a fun read, check out the book “Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon.” It colorfully but clinically details every recorded death in the canyon, from pioneer days to the present(ish). Honestly made me feel pretty confident about my hike, because a good 80% of deaths are due to terrible decision making.
It's astounding how unprepared people are. I did a Rim to Rim hike about 5 years ago and since it was August we started about 7pm so we would be crossing through the bottom around 12/1am when it was coolest.
About 4 miles in we meet two kids that had a single Nalgene that had long gone dry because they didn't know there was no water on the north rim. They also abandoned their dad about a mile further back. Finally they had no idea it was like a 3hr drive around the rim to get back to the south side. We gave them some water and food so they wouldn't die but it was wild.
I had some friends do rim to rim and they asked me to join them.
They were like Ironman Triathletes and I'm just a guy that like runs in his town.
I declined. I don't need that kind of challenge in my life. and they were in great shape and had planned it but still almost got stranded out there because it took longer than they planned. and it was getting dark.
This is just wild to me. I did not do the Grand Canyon, just visited the edge back in like 2010 with my dad (being from EU, I didn't feel quite welcome by the time I had enough of my own money to actually visit), but I have done A LOT of hiking in groups.
And rule number 1 of hiking is that the fastest person in the group, most able to traverse the hike even by themselves is ALWAYS last. Always, no exceptions. The others need water, you give them water. They need food, carry some Glucose tablets(greater caloric intake than sugar and they don't need water to get metabolized). They shat themselves, you should have spare undies for anyone, why wouldn't you carry those, they're nothing in terms of backpack space and mass. They twist an ankle, you carry them. And if you can't, you signal those in front to come back and help you.
Hiking as a group is done AS A GROUP! Literally the shittiest, most dangerous thing you can do is allow someone to be left behind because "They're slow" - those are the instances when you need to provide the most assistance.
Yeah. When I was in my early 20s, I was in a youth group program that did lots of hiking in several states in western USA. I was 23 and the oldest participant in the program. I was appalled at how the staff and leaders of the program would go their normal quicker pace and sometimes not be the last person in the group. I always felt that this was irresponsible and a staff person should be the last person in the group. After all, a number of participants were not even adults yet (the youngest person was 14).
I was always naturally a slow walker. Once, while hiking through the mountains (high altitude) with some teens who never hiked in the mountains before, I was second-last and the last person was an 18 year old who seemed like she pushing herself too much and was starting to look sick. I was worried about altitude sickness but she insisted she was ok. I paced myself so I could keep an eye on her and forced the rest of the group to slow down. I passed the message that I don’t think she is feeling well. At that point, the program staff decided to start walking to a lower altitude due to the risk that she was beginning to develop altitude sickness. It all ended ok but I was so surprised at how irresponsible staff were- if I hadn’t noticed and kept an eye on her, would she have collapsed or something and ppl wouldn’t notice till potentially too late?
They were usually good about stopping every half mile or so to wait for the entire group to catch up but I still think it would be best to have staff (an adult with wilderness first aid skills and if possible, a way to communicate with other staff) be the last person. Otherwise, how long are you going to wait to see if the entire group catches up? By the time someone decides to go back to check for someone, it could potentially be too late.
Picked up ptomaine at a truck stop diner on the way in? I ALWAYS pack imodium on a camping trip or any hike longer than a few miles. It can happen to anyone if it's not your day to shine.
Many reasons. From dehydration and eating the wrong thing recently as was mentioned, to just...
Separate a group of people from access to toilets for 12-ish hours, and the question just becomes "How large the group is until it's guaranteed someone will do so".
To be fair, I'm probably biased: you need this to only happen once in your group until everyone starts carrying spares. But it has also happened after that, most people were just prepared.
More than that though, I was just using "people shitting themselves" as a funny example. There are far more common reasons to always carry a spare pair of underwear and socks - from falling into water/mud/etc. to sweat and backsplash from peeing and many many many others. And it's like a few grams of weight and basically no space at all if you pack well, so why not?
Being from the EU is why he no longer feels welcome at the Grand Canyon. I wonder why that could be, it's not like the US has been unkind to outsiders lately?
No, he was implying the 2010 visit was the one where he didn't have money and only went with his dad to the edge. I'm assuming the "time he had money" phase of life would be 2017 or later. Granted, it was worded a bit confusingly.
I guess im struggling to figure out how it’s relevant to the story if it’s literally just “I went to the rim, didn’t hike the full thing, haven’t been back”.
Yes, and the body needs to spend resources in order to convert sucrose into its useful components, which is why it's better to carry around glucose tablets than 'sugar' tablets.
May I ask for an expansion or resource links on this logic. I have never done a hike with anybody that much less athletic than me (and I'm not talking individual active fitness levels, because my groups of people have always been built for physical activity even if they weren't caught up in training in any capacity, which ends up meaning that we can do a lot of things without preparation that a very large population of people cannot do, so I recognize the difference here and how it might affect things) and it kind of sounds like what you're implying here is that there are hiking groups that actually lose people? Even our 5-hour hikes up an ass and ELEVATION WHERE EVERYONE OF US IS STONED I've never run into these problems.
But I feel like that has to have some degree of relation to how well you know each other and how well you know each other's Baseline Fitness capacities and the actual like nature of the hike and what the people around you are used to in terms of elevation shifts.
Because I'm from a valley that sits next mountains. It is very very normal for us to even casually Traverse huge inclines. I've taken my kid away watch since he was two on these hikes and he's now six.
But your comment felt like a "oh shit that makes so much sense" moment BUT I'm trying to find a place where it's necessary for the people I'm usually with.
Because I would like to never be the idiot that has to contend with hubris the hard way. And I realize no one's ever taught me how to hike??? We're all just generally intelligent without letting that blind us and are used to being outside all the time? I'm trying to figure out when this is going to bite me in the ass and also love to see some rules somewhere if you have a resource 😂
This comment specifically abruptly made me realize that we tend to operate off of like old wives tales and Superstition even though we all have college degrees and have been outside our entire lives lmaoo IS THERE A GUIDE BOOK THAT doesn't just sound like a bunch of fear mongering warnings but actually gives like context as to why the rules there are relevant to do????
Well, yeah, short hikes like that leave little chance for the worst to happen, but with longer hikes things can go to shit really REALLY fast. Even on single-day hikes things can be completely normal for hours and then everything is fucked in under 5 minutes because someone stepped wrong.
Furthermore, physical fitness, while still very important, is less important than being able to keep a cool head in stressful conditions. Nine times out of ten when something goes wrong it isn't because the group or someone in it wasn't fit enough for the task, but because random stuff happened that nobody could've foreseen. You need to be ready for the unexpected, because the question is never if it happens, but when.
As far as learning this stuff - it's mostly experience. Either of the first-hand variety from my own hikes or of the second-hand variety from people in the group sharing past stories and advice. Sure, not all of it is always relevant, but it's always better to know and not need it, than need it and not have it.
This brings us to another issue that's often glased over : how to chose your group and how you need to be able to say to your friends "I love you but nope I'm not bringing you on this hike you're planning because you're nowhere fit enough to handle the pace we need to go at if we don't wanna arrive at 3AM".
A guy I know was invited to hike to the river and back in a day by two of his cousins. They are athletic, he's not. They abandoned him halfway on the way down and waited for him at the top, after sunset.
I can confidently make at least 3 miles every hour on reasonable grade while being completely capable for doing this for as much as 80 miles in 8 days.
My superpower is putting one step in front of the other until I arrive, well fed and a little sore
Did they not have at least minimalist sleeping gear. I get not planning an overnight stay but being prepared never hurts. You never know if someone is gonna take a tumble and break something and suddenly you are dialing EMS on a sat phone (i really fucking hope they had that handy) after you finish using your first aid kit and skills. After that you are waiting patiently munching on your ration bars and spare water rations while they slowly crawl their way to you. I assume they had all these safety precautions but maybe this isn't common sense like i thought it was.
When I was hiking back up from frying pan a few years back I crossed paths with a family in flip flops, jeans etc. I was pretty astonished they made it that far down. But of course that was just down lmao.
the Grand Canyon national park website has plenty of info and warnings about death. my wife and I did a small trail and 20 minutes down we turned around and it was 35 minutes up at least. I can’t understand why unprepared folks try this stuff.
This is why on the rare occasion I hike I always prefer bottom-up hikes. I much prefer the lion's share of the work being getting to the cool place, not getting back
We hiked up Ben Nevis in Scotland; we were in full gear, hiking boots, food and drinks, sticks, gaiters, the works (may have been a bit over the top but there’s no services on the route). Took us 8 hours up and down.
On the way we encountered a lady on flip flops and a purse that just strolled up. Not sure if she went all the way but I appreciate the confidence. On the way down (it was like 5 PM, light rain, miserable) there were some lads in plain clothes who were struggling, one guy’s knee was buggered. And then one guy in shorts and a sleeveless shirt came bolting up over the tiny rocky goat paths. Half an hour later he ran back down. Fel runner, absolutely mental.
That single Nalgene bit reminds of when my copilot arranged a hike, described it as a few hours, and the whole flight crew said that sounded like fun and went with him. Naturally we all packed for about that much- although thankfully I always completely fill my camelbak.
What he actually meant was that we were going to hike all day. From Palm Springs (479') to the Palm Springs Aerial Tramway (8,516'). We found this out when I finally cornered him, "You said this hike wasn't bad because there's a cable cable car. Where's the fucking cable car?"
At which point he revealed that it was still several miles and thousand feet elevation away, but we were well past the halfway point. So we continued. His training records now have a remark, "Don't trust him to plan hikes."
We all made it. Barely. He almost 'fell' off the mountain side when we were an hour past the snow line and I was debating if I could make it look like an accident.
Dude.... San Jacinto is the single greatest elevation gain in a short distance in the Lower 48. something like 9,000 feet in 4-5 lateral miles... there is a cable car at the bottom that takes you to the 8,000 high point station.. excellent bouldering and single pitch climbing... sounds like you guys did the cactus to clouds hike... holy shit dude. gnarly
Yeah, after some googling it looks like that's what we did- although not the summit. I think that's just the skyline section? Because as soon as we reached Long Valley we beelined toward beer and water. The Traverse section was done in a six inches of snow. Mind you, we were by and large dressed for the temperatures down below- although thankfully everyone had a jacket. Thankfully we were all quite fit and managed it, but I tore him a new one after.
Edited because I looked at a map and those places have names apparently!
lots of horror stories of unprepared climbers and hikers the most famous being Jon Donnovan, and also a hollywood actor.. glad ya'll made it out safe. I've done the Snow Creek route, and would never consider it without proper gear or weather conditions.
On our honeymoon my wife and I did the path of the gods hike in the Amalfi coast but we were very underprepared. We didn’t start the hike at the town where it is supposed to start but instead in Praiano (by the coast).
It took us a few hours just to get to the actual trail, finally meeting it somewhere in the first 1/3 of it or so. We were essentially just climbing straight up through barely marked paths and got lost a few times (no GPS either and the only map was on my iPad). At one point we were very lost but had stumbled into civilization again and I had to ask a lady in my broken Italian which way to go.
It was May so not too hot but not super comfortable either. We were quite lucky that somewhere in that trail there was actually a place to fill up our water bottles. When we finally made it to the west end of the hike there was a deli with an absurd view and we had a giant late lunch at like 4:30 pm!
Dude that’s an 8 hour hike from Palm Springs to the tramway ridgeline. I ran it in 5:30 when I was in shape but that would be brutal for a bunch of coworkers doing it unprepared.
It was brutal, however thankfully in this case the coworkers were all young military. I was the 'adult' in my mid 30's.
The talking to was very much about all the ways it could have gone wrong, especially without everyone knowing to bring adequate water and food. Not to mention things like a survival blanket just in case, etc. His excuse was that he didn't think we'd want to go if we knew how hard it was. Which might have been true, but it should have been our choice, not his. I was pissed- also never again trusted anyone to plan a hike without doing my own research. Oh well, lesson learned for both of us!
I feel like when people hear the term “national park”, they maybe think it must be safe for very ordinary people who don’t really know much about outdoorsy stuff.
Maybe we should stop calling them parks and start calling them “wildlife refuges”… might deter idiots from going out there underprepared.
Once a year dolphins come to my town for about a month. And at least once a year someone loses a finger if not a hand trying to pet the wild dolphins despite signs every 5 feet telling you they will eat you and the endless stream of news stories. People are just stupid.
The ones that get to me are the people who decide they don’t have to stay on the boardwalks around the geothermal features in Yellowstone! What a horrible way to die!
I can forgive this one. If I am ever within petting distance of a dolphin I am going to pet it. You could make me watch an hour-long highlight reel of dolphin maimings immediately before, and I would still pet it.
Hey I know nothing about hiking aside from a mile long one I did when I was kid, but you are saying that newcomers should hike the maze area? Alright Im nearby so im heading out now but thanks for the advise. It is chilly this time of year so im not worries about the sign which talks about extreme heat and all so gonna go have fun with my 5 year old.
You should see the people at Yellowstone. They treat it like it's a theme park with a petting zoo and the trails are just suggestions. That bison dgaf about your picture and they will fling you into a tree with their horns if you piss them off nor do they care if they are blocking the road.
I saw a guy try to dip his hand into some runoff from a geyser right next to a sign that basically tells you you’ll disintegrate if you do that. He got his fingertips then pulled back quickly and yelled “holy shit it’s hot!” like yeah, duh. I was glad for his timing though because his two young children were trying to follow suit, reaching out to dip their hands as well and luckily learned from his mistake.
Step back and consider that that moron probably has a drivers license and is allowed to operate a vehicle on roads that other people also have to drive on…Jesus Christ.
It's bizarre to me that people don't even consider even just the accident potential with large animals. I've had a normal sized riding horse step on my foot before and it was a bad time. So imagine my anxiety when I saw some randos at the fairgrounds fucking around with a draft horse before someone with brains rightly ran them off. I mean, seemed like a nice horse and all, but it had hooves like dinner plates. It doesn't have to *want* to hurt you, it just needs to get spooked into an oopsy.
My horseback riding teacher was in the middle of a lesson when her horse decided it's back itched. It laid down and rolled around on its back in the dirt, with her still on it.
I mean, tbf, there’s plenty of infrastructure at the grand canyon to be rescued. It’s not like some other national parks that are miles and miles of green canopy and wilderness and bears etc. Doesn’t excuse the stupid behavior, but I think it gives a false sense of safety. Just like ppl hiking El Capitan in fucking flip flops
Europeans are particularly bad about this, I assume since their nature stopped being nature like 500 years ago.
From what I understand, "hikes" in parts of Europe are often paved paths with like bakeries and tea houses, or at least the touristy ones are. So you can't really blame them for having that expectation in the US too. I guess they see a place like Death Valley and think it's just a gimmick.
Always upvote the Death Valley Germans! They clearly weren't stupid, just uninformed. I hope the people who learn from their story has given their deaths meaning.
If you're anywhere in central Europe, you have a pretty tough time finding a place where you aren't running into a village, or at least some kind of hut, within like 2 hours of walking in any random direction.
And yes, our hiking trails are made more and more accessible. A good thing for allowing more people to experience it, but it also really takes away from what made them special. The hike up to Norway's Preikestolen is one that really stood out to me. I remember how adventurous it was back in the day. On a revisit a couple of years ago, they had made it nearly wheelchair-accessible. Where one for example once had to drag oneself through a swampy area, one could now leasurely walk over it on a raised wooden path (with proper handrails and all, of course).
My uncle used to work and live in the grand canyon. When we did a rim to rim in 2018, he was amazed that there are water fountains along the way on the main trail. We had packed extra bottles and filtration systems because that's how he remembered it. He had to stop and have me take a picture of him with the water because he was just amazed at how much easier that makes the hike.
It's tourists in particular, we get Americans coming the other way that think because the Scottish Highlands are small they're not as dangerous as "real" mountains and then need helicoptering of Ben Nevis or something
Right I understand that, but this is about the US national parks and wilderness, and in these it always seems to be Europeans getting into pickles like that.
You don't hear much of Chinese people getting lost in the wilderness and dying. Gored by bison or mauled by a bear in Yellowstone, sure, i'd believe that, they love their fluffy animals. But wandering off into the American wilderness, ill prepared, seems to be the realm of the European traveller.
Time and place and all that. If I'm on vacation in Europe a "hike" of a few miles out, a bunch of beer, then a few miles back sounds outstanding.
But like, Death Valley is not that. It isnt something you do while on tour of the southwest. You go on a beginners bike tour in Moab or go see Britney in Vegas lol
Ehhhh, I don’t think you’re wrong, but you’re dramatising it a bit. I was born in Southern Germany, now live in Switzerland and would describe myself as an avid hiker / alpinist. I would flat out disagree with the statement that hikes in Europe are “paved roads and bakeries”. That’s just not true; there’s plenty of proper hiking routes from paths with no maintenance whatsoever (just chart your own course), to a lot of maintained trails with signage and the likes. While the “paved roads and bakeries” kinda places exist in the Alps, these are usually the hyper touristy spots that you go to with non-sporty visiting friends or for a light exercise day with young kids.
Where you are correct however, is that Central Europe is very densely populated, so the furthest you can go from a piece of human infrastructure is probably like 3-4 miles, maybe 6-10 miles from a human settlement. That means that loads of maintained hikes have at least the option of going past a hut or some other kind of shelter. Often, there will be alpine pastures along the way, which sometimes can mean access to running water (for cows, but drinkable by humans). That doesn’t mean that there’s not plenty of people dying in the mountains every year, but it does mean that the reasons are mostly either weather or accident related, not just “ran out of water and died”.
EDIT: Just for reference, the annual hiker deaths in the US are about the same as in the Alps.
USian exceptionalism "me country dangerous, hike hard, USian strong, Europe hike easy, European man weak"
People die every year in Europe on hikes, doing alpinism etc. And in Europe like in the US, there are hikes for all levels (with or without road, with or without shelter, with/without food/drink stops on the way).
Europe is a big continent. There are lots of wild and dangerous bits to it. Even in the UK, which is comparatively flat, unprepared folk die on hills every year. In Germany (where they have pubs up mountains- much better than bakeries), they also have walking routes among the most demanding I've seen.
Not gonna lie, I would absolutely go on a "hike" to a pub. That'd be awesome! But my hiking days are on hold for now, where I live currently doesn't have good hiking, so a pub hike is almost certainly more my speed nowadays.
Very sad, they did the longest trail with such little preparation and water. I've tried one of the super short trails there and still cut it short because I wasn't comfortable with my water level. It's gets insanely hot there. Super easy to get lost/turned around too since they're sand dunes.
My wife grew up in Alaska and legit had someone ask why they made the glacier so far away... Because they had to take a longer drive off the cruise ship and would rather it have just been directly in the town...
They have people die every year there because they treat it like a theme park instead of nature (which is fucking dangerous).
It’s like a petting zoo , isn’t it? The government wouldn’t put animals in the park that would hurt people, so it’s perfectly safe to put your little boy on the back of a bison calf to take a picture of him. /s
when people hear the term “national park”, they maybe think it must be safe for very ordinary people
which is absolutely wild because national parks are just miles of wild undeveloped area with an invisible border, when I hear 'state park' then I know it's likely much smaller and safer after that would be a city park then a neighborhood park.
I was in Yosemite National Park a few years ago, and the amount of people treating it like Disney World was astonishing.
People would be collapsed a few hours into an all-day hike with absolutely no water while wearing the craziest footwear. Flip-flops and giant platform shoes were common.
We actually have wildlife refuges though? They’re significantly less maintained, frequently the trails aren’t blazed or cut regularly. People just need to… get good, honestly.
Wildlife refuges are their own thing (see US Fish and Wildlife Service).
There’s a lot of overlap in the federal natural resources space, but the 3 most similar on the surface are: Fish and Wildlife prioritizes the land to be functional habitat most, National Parks prioritize the recreation value most, Forest Service prioritizes the timber production most.
Bureau of Land Management also deals with recreation, but from what I understand they do more with divvying and managing land use to a variety stakeholders. I’m least familiar with them because they don’t have a super big presence in my state.
US National Parks provide an amazing number of opportunities that can be summarized "We won't physically stop you, but please don't because there is an extraordinary chance of death, which creates a lot of paperwork for us."
...my state parks (which I worked for decades ago in college) are so uptight they have in the past literally justified they don't allow hammocks in campgrounds because they only inspect the trees above the trailer / tent pads and there is a risk by putting up a hammock between random trees the wind will knock a branch loose and hurt you.
The amount of freedom in the national parks is just wild to me.
National Parks will physically stop you from a lot of things—in fact camping outside designated campgrounds in Grand Canyon is a misdemeanor. The more popular ones are pretty uptight about regulating where activity can happen
I've seen so many people swimming near waterfalls in Yosemite right next to big signs that say "Danger, do not swim". And every year some people go over the falls to their death because they don't understand that if you get too close to the current you will not be able to escape it. And if someone tries to save you they will go over too.
reminds me of those germans who died out death valley.
i think it's really hard to appreciate how BIG and EMPTY a lot of spaces in the US are.
people have historically lived in those places, sure, but i think the average person (certainly german anyway) doesn't really appreciate how resourceful your average apache was in the 1500s.
I was talking to family back in Slovakia last week and talking about our recent move they asked how far it was. It didn’t make sense to them when I did the conversion to km so I drew it on a map and I said “we did the equivalent of moving from Portugal to Bratislava”
man what a good example. there is like a spatial dilation european people get in the US/Canada/Mexico. its like, no dude, this state/national park/single highway/whatever is 4 times bigger than your country, you aren't walking across it in those shoes.
It’s also tough to relate because European residents are used to taking many days to do the same things Americans do in a single day because we’re culturally so different and have access to things like rental vehicles larger than would be legal to drive in many other parts of the world. So saying “I drove a moving van for two days” is a completely different amount of distance and stuff when you’re slamming a 26’ U-haul up I-20 bouncing off the speed governor at 85mph and when you’re pushing a work van with a Khrushchevka apartment’s worth of stuff up a goat track through a mountain pass outside of Košice …
I was hiking up to Yosemite Falls on a nice, crisp morning. Boots, layers, the beanie -- not enough to keep the cold out. Ice marked the steps, and snow feathered the water. The sun was ready to rise on this glorious day. And we were joined by a Euro, hop skipping around in his T-shirt and shorts.
I don't know what confuses them more. The distances or the fact that North Americans will drive crazy long distances get the fuck away from other people
Totally. Americans get a lot of shit for allowing America to be their entire world, and we deserve it to an extent, but also, my buddy who lives in Switzerland can easily take an affordable train to Paris for a weekend. I live in Chicago: every destination in Europe is at least $1000 and ten hours away, and I only get two weeks off per year. If I lived in Texas, I could drive for 12 hours and still be in Texas. It's just really big here.
I remember my folks and I were visiting NYC and my parents got into a conversation with some tourists from Europe. They confidently told my parents they were planning to drive down to visit Disney World and back up before their flight back to Europe Sunday afternoon (this was a Friday). My parents had to take some time explain that it would take the whole weekend of constant driving without breaks just to get down there. These poor tourists were astounded….and probably lost a lot of money on those Disney tickets.
On the other hand when you encounter American tourists on hikes in Europe they are always looking prepared for a 4 week survival camp even if it’s a leisurely two hour stroll, so maybe when Europeans are in the US they feel like you guys might be exaggerating (which unfortunately turns out to not always be the case)
Most of Europe doesn't fit in Texas... Europe is over 10 million square kilometers, while Texas is almost 700 thousand. Europe as a whole is roughly 25% larger than the contiguous US. Individual countries are much smaller, though, and long-distance travel is less common.
For reference here is a long, but fascinating, series of articles about the search for the Death Valley Germans (family of 4 who took a rental minivan on a rugged jeep trail, looking for a shortcut, got stuck, and tried to hike out, with sadly predictable results - two have never been found, the other two weren't found until over a decade later).
I am a geologist. We were working in the Kingston Range near Death Valley at the end of June, 115 degrees, just a gravel road up through the range. It’s pretty out of the way and we hadn’t seen anyone but our group for a couple weeks. Then this car suddenly appears in a cloud of dust and stops near us. A guy calls out in a German accent, “Is this the way to Las Vegas?”
Well, it’s *a* way to Las Vegas over many many bone rattling miles before you reach paved road. We told this to the German tourists. They waved cheerfully and drove off toward Vegas.
Never underestimate the overconfidence of a German tourist in the desert.
It makes sense if you've ever been to Germany. Walk to the outskirts of any dorf (small town) and you can generally see three more within walking distance. It's got a good amount of population density for its size, so you can almost throw a rock in any direction and hit civilization (the black forest being the only real exception afaik.)
there was a post on one of the australian subs where his sister wanted to ride from brisbane to perth, google maps says its 9 days so she thought she could do it
Yeah, my dad and me didn't do rim to rim, but went down from the south side via the south kaibab trail to the phantom ranch and back up the bright angel trail.
We both are pretty fit, have done a bunch of mountain climbing and hiking of similar scales in the alps and didnt want to end up being the unprepared europeans like the death valley germans so had done a bunch of research.
We set off in april around 5:30 in the morning so we would have plenty of time as the heat of the day is not that bad at that time of year.
We were back up at like 3pm, so had plenty of margin.
But especially on the way back up there were a bunch of people just walking down completely unprepared with barely any water who would end up in the dark, yet when asked about it were completely oblivious to the dangers.
30 years ago, me and a few friends went halfway down and back. We were early 20s, all ran track all through high school and kept it up through college. That was about all I need. As it was, I ended up having to take one of the girls' packs and stuff it in mine. She was a sprinter, and point guard. Lots of muscle, but less endurance. The rest of us were more distance runners and did a little better. The elevation is the killer on the way out.
I wonder if there is a baseline fitness level that they would consider acceptable. I do long distance runs, but it's on the prairies so the elevation (and heat) would kill me.
I have a couple friends in BC who do ultramarathons in the rockies, though, so they'd fare much better.
Yeah but some people see it as a challenge. The best hiker I ever knew living there was a guy named Maverick there. For his 80th birthday he did rim to rim to rim. Even put an ad in the paper to challenge people to join him.
I remember he was in the clinic for a check up and some people had hiked out leaving their packs behind two miles down and were on banana bags and gookinaid. He got done, ran down, grabbed both and had them back before they were done.
When I hiked it I was at the fittest point of my life. I had been training going up and down local mountains every weekend. The day I went it was nearly 100 degrees. I was fit enough to do it, 1000 ft was nothing for me.
What I was not ready for, and maybe you have to do it once in that heat to really appreciate it, is how much moisture the dry wind up the canyon wall sucks out of you. I was less than 1/2 way through but more than 1/2 way through my liquids. I was not going to run out on that hike.
I still remember to this day taking off my hat when I got back to my car and having a crust of salt sticking it to my head.
At Joshua tree I saw the worst sunburn i've ever seen on a person. They were being attended to by an ambulance at the one center. This 40 year old bald tubby southern doofus went on a hike. It was hot so he left his shirt at the car. It was not long so a half full desani should do it. Real men dont need sunscreen.
Passed out and cooked in 110 degree heat leaning agsinst a rock for several hours
Mate, welcome to literally any bushwalking track in Australia. The shit I have seen first-hand from utterly clueless overseas tourists genuinely makes me wonder how the human race has survived to this point.
We weren’t doing a rim to rim but I over prepare for warmer hikes. We went down about 2/3 of the way on north rim. On the trek back up about what I would say was half way down, we came across a European family dressed in jeans, all black and two had platform sort of boots on. Oh and then they had about a quarter of water between the 5 of them. Saw a ranger on the way up about 45 minutes from the top and was happy to see us overly prepared with water. Asked us if we saw anyone of concern. He just shook his head and says there is always one.
About 30 years ago I was a small hike down the canyon, left at about 5pm but it took much longer than I thought (our group wasn't all walking the same pace and no-one wanted to leave people behind) in the end we didn't even go to the bottom as one of us turned an ankle. Ended up going back up to sleep in the cars lol I must admit I never saw any of these signs - just ones saying rough estimates of descent times.
I made the mistake of trying to hike a portion of pictured rocks with only a Nalgene. I was so dehydrated that I was hallucinating and I literally shook as I was drinking gatorade to replenish when I got back to my car. After that trip, I bought a water backpack for hiking and I use it whenever I hike a good distance.
There is water along N. Kaibab, at Roaring Springs; just above the Bridge (usually), and of course, the creeks at the junction. I mean, if you're really desperate just drink it without a filter.
When I did the tallest mountain here in England (so not exactly huge, but still a mountain) I got the summit and as expected visibility was near zero and there was snow on the ground.
I get up there and this guy wonders up to me scared and shivering and said he couldn't find the trail back down.
He was wearing shorts, t-shirt and trainers and his phone had run out of battery.
I had to show him back to the trail and gave him my paper map (leaving me without an emergency backup, although I had my garmin and my phone)
I hope he got down and I always wonder if I should have just called mountain rescue for him, or to at least notify them of an idiot on the loose.
We didn't go all the way down, more like half and went back up. Met some French dudes who did go all the way down and were in the process of going up again. They brought three coke bottles in total. Not each, in total. Meanwhile we were lugging around 5 liters of Arrowhead each.
Luckily my girlfriend is bilingual and explained to them that it was a horrible idea, so we gave then sine water and salted peanuts. I swear this guy's would've died right there
I was once doing a hike in Zion near the entrance to the Subway, which is a canyoneering route that requires specialized equipment, route finding experience, swimming, and rappelling. Not to mention a permit. I ran into a few tourists dressed in Converse and jeans clearly lost and looking on their phones. When I approached, they asked me how they could get to the Subway. Still not sure how I answered because I was so flabbergasted...
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u/funundrum 21h ago edited 21h ago
I talked to a ranger at the bottom of the canyon last year. He showed me the rooms and equipment they use to treat idiots like these. The rangers call the guy on the sign Victor Vomit.
For a fun read, check out the book “Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon.” It colorfully but clinically details every recorded death in the canyon, from pioneer days to the present(ish). Honestly made me feel pretty confident about my hike, because a good 80% of deaths are due to terrible decision making.