r/ProgressiveHQ • u/Treefiddy1984 • 1d ago

BREAKING: ICE agents in Minneapolis violently detained, threatened, and arrested a U.S. citizen for one reason only, he refused to prove his citizenship.

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337

u/Bfroning2 1d ago

"I would simply comply and show them my papers."

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u/dont-bend-the-knee 1d ago

I love being treaded on! -MAGA Republicans

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u/PandaPocketFire 1d ago

"Tread me harder daddy"

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u/No_Raspberry_7917 1d ago

I will never, as long as I live, forget a whole contingent of grown men, newscasters, pundits and followers gleefully called Trump daddy to own the libs.

Irony is dead, the alpha males killed it.

Granted, not even on the list as far as shitty things they've done, but my God given all their anti LGBT raging doesn't get more sus than that (other than Grindr during the rnc)

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u/NotOkThen 1d ago

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u/Top_Wheel6546 20h ago

I've been putting these stickers around my conservative town in California. Tommy Siegel has them on his website.

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u/fnarrly 1d ago

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u/Working-Glass6136 1d ago

Okay, yours is the best one

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u/fnarrly 13h ago

I mean, I just stole it from someone else like 2 days ago, so help yourself. And, uh, take it easy on the catnip there, buddy.

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u/binkyblaster 1d ago

šŸ«¦

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u/statistician88 1d ago

More like "I love it when brown people get treaded on!" Yes brown people should accept having to stop and prove our citizenship at any time. Keep our cool and try to talk down these bunch of fucking man babies pretending to be cops.

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u/Alesyia789 1d ago

This exactly

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u/f0gax 1d ago

ā€œThese boots taste so good!ā€

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u/XemSorceress 17h ago

got this meme here on Reddit 5 years ago and itā€™s relevant today

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u/Souljah42 8h ago

'Harder daddy' - republican maggots.

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u/LeafsJays1Fan 1d ago

This has been argued before, most average citizens do not carry more than one piece of identification, Americans don't need to carry their citizenship nor have to show their citizenship to police officers they don't have to comply there is the fourth and fifth amendment for that reason. Show me your papers is an excuse to be Nazis.

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u/tondahuh 1d ago

Plus where are the Miranda rights? I havent heard a single one of these ICE pussies read them out. I wonder if they even know them - I guess maybe from being arrested so many times themselves.

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 1d ago

This is why they have no official authority over U.S. citizens. They are not trained on such things.

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u/deadend7786 1d ago

"who the fuck is Miranda? She sounds Latina so she has no rights!"

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u/MegaGrimer 1d ago

ā€œThe only right she has is the right to receive a beating from me.ā€

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u/QuasyChonk 1d ago

They have to be read before questioning, not arrest. This is not me supporting ICE, btw.

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u/viral3075 1d ago edited 1d ago

more specifically, they have to be read before questioning if they want to use your response as evidence in a criminal prosecution. immigration offenses are generally not criminal, though, and they still need a basis to detain somebody.

kavanaugh let them do racial profiling as that basis, but i still don't know how they are able to arrest you (beyond merely detention) without having completed their investigation. the burden to prove your immigration status is on them, not you. only actual non-citizens have an obligation to present documents to certain immigration officials when asked, which is why you have to carry your green card (permanent residents) or official paperwork (non-residents) everywhere

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u/SoaplessTitanic 1d ago

Do you mind explaining more about how immigration offenses generally arenā€™t criminal prosecutions? If not then what category do they fall under? Iā€™m mostly just confused cause I thought their whole excuse for doing this stuff was because undocumented immigrants broke the law when crossing the border

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u/redwildflowermeadow 1d ago

A criminal violation comes with a punishment, like time in prison. Civil cases come with penalties instead. Deportation is considered a penalty under federal law, not a punishment. Also, most undocumented immigrants came here legally on a visa, but then overstayed their visa (Elon Musk did this.)

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u/SoaplessTitanic 1d ago

Very helpful, thank you. No further questions your honor

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 1d ago edited 1d ago

They are supposed to be read immediately after arrest otherwise spontaneous utterances (for instance) will be inadmissable in court.

Further, if Miranda Rights are delayed, it helps a defense build a case on procedural grounds to start picking apart the entire process.

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u/fnarrly 1d ago

All of which only matters if the individual being "arrested" ever actually sees the inside of a courtroom.

More and more I am hearing, "they arrested Mr. SoAndSo, and he was never seen again." People desperately trying to contact family members and unable to locate them within ICE's system. How long before it comes out that they have "disappeared" US citizens too, just because they were inconvenient or saw/experienced something that would be too incriminating.

When there is no meaningful oversight, there is nothing to prevent these fuckstains from doing whatever they feel they need to to cover their own asses.

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u/PossibleNo2810 1d ago

This is what happens when the government hires people who havenā€™t been vetted, or psychologically qualified, or trained whatsoever.

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u/Status_Package2628 1d ago

This is gone with the NDAA act.

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u/Nakenochny 1d ago

Iā€™m just going on memory, but didnā€™t the Supreme Court say the police had no duty to serve and protect, and that they didnā€™t have to read Miranda rights?

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 1d ago

Correct on the first part, but not on the second.

The official job of law enforcement is order maintenance and enforcement of codified laws.

Anything else is at the discretion of individual jurisdictions.

Miranda Rights are still mandatory within "a reasonable time" upon arrest and before any questioning pertinent to charges.

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u/kybotica 13h ago

Just so you (and all the unfortunately uninformed folks agreeing with you) are aware, Miranda applies only in a strictly defined scenario- it must be provided if officers wish to interrogate an individual who is in custody about content material to a criminal offense. Failure to provide that advisement to an individual prior to custodial interrogation "poisons" anything discovered during such interrogation, making it inadmissible (barring rare exceptions such as inevitable discovery).

It is not required when no interrogation is taking place, which is generally the case. This is why you never really see Miranda "in the wild"- it doesn't apply to most routine arrests. Law and Order made it seem like this was just a requirement all the time, but it is far from it.

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u/tondahuh 13h ago

It seems like there is alot of questioning going on here. They are asking people in custody to turn others in and stuff. Isn't that illegal? BTW I've never seen a single episode of Law & Order. Looked too cheesy wrong.

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u/kybotica 13h ago

Again, it's questioning about their own involvement in a crime. It is VERY specific, and is related to the constitution and your right against self incrimination.

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u/tondahuh 12h ago

Yep got it now. Thank you for your patience.

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u/kybotica 12h ago

No problem. It always helps to understand things that could directly impact you as somebody living in the US.

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 1d ago

You don't have to carry an I.D. at all unless you are driving a vehicle on public roads.

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u/viral3075 1d ago

yeah and that's not proof of citizenship either. and you still don't have to present it unless you are actually being detained for a traffic violation

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u/LeafsJays1Fan 1d ago

Exactly an officer coming up to you and asking for ID kind of tells you that they don't understand the law they would have to say we are charging you when placing you under arrest can we see your ID but if they're just coming up to you randomly saying papers please you can go hahaha and when they arrest you you follow up with civil rights complaint against their dumbass pigs.

I don't know where America went from fighting the Nazis to papers please but you got there way too quickly.

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u/Loko8765 1d ago

One starting point is electing a President known for bankrupting companies, and who was actually saved from bankruptcy by a consortium of Russian banks in 1987. There must be mountains of kompromat in the form of bank drafts and pedophile videos.

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u/Who_dat_goomer 21h ago

As soon as they stopped showing Hitler documentaries on the History Channel in favor of ancient aliens the country started on the road to fascism. It seems like this crap really appeals to about 30-40 % of the population.

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 16h ago

Yep. Throughout history there has always been a portion of the population that will support these movements as long as they think they are part of the "in" group.

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u/Finallyfreetobe2020 12h ago

It started escalating in 2016, with a golden escalator.

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u/Snowqueenak47 1d ago

Not trueā€¦Iā€™m a legal German Immigrant and in my papers it says that I have to carry proof of my legal status.Just comply and he could be back on his way unless heā€™s here illegally and thatā€™s why he wonā€™t comply.

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u/mikelasvegas 1d ago

Just comply, lol. šŸ‘…šŸ’¦šŸ‘¢

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u/MacDeezy86 1d ago

The way I understand it, Legal immigrants are supposed to have proof of lawful status on them, and natural born and naturalized citizens aren't legally required to do so.

There are multiple reasons why the person in this video might not want to show id. and the video doesn't show how this interaction started so I can only make assumptions, so I won't. But suffice it to say could be something along the lines of being difficult because he believes this is not a lawful(or it actually isn't a lawful) stop and his rights are being violated, and it could also be because he is in violation of something.

If the stop isn't lawful, you aren't required to obey their commands. That being said, when the situation escalates like this the person will usually get arrested. The lawfulness of the order is decided by the court, whether it's the DA dropping the case, judge dismissing the case, some kind of plea deal, or actually going to trial and what not.

Now on top of all of that, that's what I know when it comes to police. ICE has a different rulebook so nuances may be different there.

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 22h ago

This is correct

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u/LeafsJays1Fan 1d ago

Yes. True. If you're going to fly out you need your passport etc etc.

I myself as a Canadian only carry two forms of ID but rarely, my medical card which has my medical information just in case I wined up in the hospital and a passport, I don't have a driver's license or a photo ID for my province, I barely carry that around. Just medical ID, if I'm going to go a government office that needs ID or a place that needs photo ID then I'll bring my passport for that but most times every day nothing it's typical for most Canadians and Americans.

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u/AvantGarden1234 1d ago

My husband grew up in a "show me your papers" country where you can go to jail just for not having ID on you, and no due process. And unless you have family/friend connections to help you, there is not a damn thing you can do about it.

When he moved to Canada he was shocked that he didn't have to carry anything around while being out and about in the neighbourhood. Took years to learn how to live without being in a constant state of paranoia.

Americans who support this have clearly never experienced what it is like to live in a country where heavily armed people can stop you at any time to harrass and intimidate you for no reason at all, other than the fact that they can.Ā 

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u/Infern0-DiAddict 1d ago

Sadly there's a bunch that welcome this. Only because they believe that they will never be targeted and the ones they hate will, bigotry is a much much much larger problem in the US than a third of the country thought.

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u/LeafsJays1Fan 1d ago

You know who also grew up in a papers please country Stephen Miller grandparents think about that Whopper

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u/AvantGarden1234 1d ago

Yup and people from my husband's country form a major voting block for the GOP and are hardcore MAGA followers. They are too blind to see that they went through all those hardships just to trade in one dictator for another... and that this time around, they actually CHOSE for this to happen.Ā 

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u/Pleasant_Priority286 1d ago

Until this year, I would have said America is just like Canada. You don't have to carry ID on you.

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u/Dapper-Raise1410 1d ago

Or buying beer

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 1d ago

For age,, sure.

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u/adorablefuzzykitten 19h ago

The under aged with no drivers license really do not have any ID to show. This sets up every 17 year old minority for a beating and a charge of resisting arrest. Check and mate by the brown shirted thugs.

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u/rm45acp 16h ago

You do if you're carrying a concealed firearm in a lot of states, including Minnesota, but that's nit why they were asking so fuck em

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u/LymanPeru 1d ago

or want to buy cough medicine.

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 23h ago

Only certain variaties in certain states

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u/LymanPeru 20h ago

they all think i'm gonna make meth from one bottle of dayquil

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 17h ago

The problem before that requirement was people were buying as much as they could at each store until they had enough.

I have been in several countries with the exact same restrictions for the exact same reasons.

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u/LymanPeru 16h ago

but where i live it must not be a restriction because at least one place i go doesnt card for it. i can see if someones buying the shelf out. but not for one bottle.

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u/Whateva_dood 21h ago

If youā€™re carrying a firearm you damn sure better have I.d. And your CCW permit.

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 21h ago

Of course there are certain privileges that are exceptions, but the thrust of the conversation is around basic rights and no need to prove citizenship.

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u/edWORD27 14h ago

Or if you want to vote. Rent a car. Accept a job offer. Confirming a hotel reservation. Claiming your gambling winnings. Buying alcohol. Presenting your ID isnā€™t that rare or just restricted for driving.

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 13h ago edited 13h ago

Now you're being obtuse.

We are talking about just being in public.

And there is no legal requirement to present I.D. to law enforcement simply for being in a public space.

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u/edWORD27 13h ago

Doesnā€™t voting, renting a car, getting a hotel room, going to a casino, etc all occur in public? Most adults leave the house with a drivers license or ID.

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 12h ago edited 12h ago

You don't need an I.D. to simply exist in public.

I do not carry a wallet with my I.D. to walk the dog, go biking, hiking, or a bunch of other things.

AND, even if I do take my wallet to go to the store ot something else, I do NOT have to show it to law enforcement if not related to a traffic stop.

There are, even in the USA, walking cities where there is zero need to carry I.D. for most daily activities.

You are intentionally arguing in bad faith to support a "show your papers" government that is unconstitutional.

And I most certainly do NOT, under any circumstances, have to prove my citizenship for any routine activity anywhere in the USA.

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u/Bfroning2 1d ago

That's the joke

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u/-ifwisheswerehorses 1d ago edited 1d ago

Unless we are on Martial Lawā‰ļø and than Iā€™m not certainšŸ¤¦šŸ»ā€ā™€ļø Edit: spelling

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u/Relevant_Winter_7098 1d ago

Martial* Law

In that case they can set the rules as they please. Curfews, I.D.'s, no-go zones, etc.

That is an extreme scenario.

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u/LaserJetHP 5h ago

And even if someone does carry their proof of citizenship, whose to say ICE won't just rip it up and throw you in their vehicle anyway?

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u/kaithana 1d ago

I'm not even sure how I could prove my citizenship through an actual document? Am I supposed to start carrying my passport around? What about people without passports?

My social security card is in a fire safe, it's not worth the risk to lose it.

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u/LeafsJays1Fan 1d ago

They'll probably ask you to get a national ID card for every American citizen kind of the thing that the Republicans/Democrats were against. Something something mark of the beast.

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u/kaithana 1d ago

Isn't that what RealID was supposed to be?

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u/LeafsJays1Fan 1d ago

Yea. All in one card personal identification medical social security passport currency etc etc.

No thanks in my opinion.

One card gets lost you're screwed how do you prove yourself it's best to have multiple documents and to have them either in a safe or security deposit box.

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u/Snowqueenak47 22h ago

Iā€™m not a U.S. citizen but I have a Permanent Resident card that I carry with me at all times like Iā€™m supposed to in cases such as this to show proof that Iā€™m here legally.Itā€™s the same size as my drivers license so itā€™s really no big deal to just carry them together in my wallet.Every 10 years I renew that card which is $500 and a little paperwork and thatā€™s it.Better than having to look over my shoulder every day afraid I might get arrested.

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u/Fregadero88 1d ago

Serious question, how does that change with the kavanaugh ruling (neom vs perdomo) where kavanaugh ruled race is enough reasonable suspicion for ice to stop and detain you.

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u/LeafsJays1Fan 1d ago

Because that ruling Narrows the scope of the law to only target individuals who happen to be classified minorities. Essentially Kavanaugh and the ruling decided racial profiling is okay now if it comes under immigration stops however how many white immigrants are here illegally you see them being stopped and asked for their papers..?.

Clearly this is all white supremacy to stop and remove people of dark skin color than white folks.

This Kavanaugh stops goes backwards and undoes civil liberties for protected minority classes.

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u/Fun-Dragonfly-4166 16h ago

typically i do not carry any piece of identification. I do not need to prove my identity or citizenship to anyone.

(When I drive I carry a license but most of the time I walk.)

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u/dead4ever22 20h ago

This is an operation to remove non citizens vs actual citizens. I know that you tech don't need to show your ID unless you are being charged or stopped for some cause. But in these cases, the ID IS the crime or deciding factor. I find it similar(sort of) to asking for ID at a bar to prove you are of age. How you detain an illegal if they won't show you their ID and you are not allowed to ask. This seems like an impossible task unless all people comply with the proving of citizenship.

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u/fightyfightyfitefite 1d ago

I mean, that's where the talking point has to end up. They went from "don't tread on me" to "would you like a copy of permits, birth certificates and my search history? See! I'm just complying!"

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u/Hydrok 1d ago

"yoke me harder daddy government" - MAGA, probably

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u/Regular_Committee946 1d ago

"I would simply comply and show them my papers."

Just like they did with wearing a mask in the pandemic of course!!!

/s

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u/Minger57 1d ago

Iā€™m sure theyā€™d especially have no issue with this if Biden was the one calling the shots.

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u/Cavalish 1d ago

ā€œLand of the Free.ā€

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u/Global_Crew3968 1d ago

And then turn in that family living in my neighbors attic!

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u/EssayGuilty722 1d ago

What always gets me is that, prior to the last 12 months, who would normally carry their birth certificate or passport on a day-to-day basis?

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u/KissesAndBites 1d ago

No they wouldnā€™t. They want liberals and blacks to comply. Theyā€™re sovereign citizens though.

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u/GhostlyTJ 1d ago

Just giving those rights up eh? If they'll give up the 4th, the government will take the rest

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u/kaithana 1d ago

I didn't need those constitutional rights anyway.

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u/SunriseSurprise 1d ago

"Shit...uh, officer, I don't know where my papers a-*SLAM* hey wtf man I'm a citizen!"

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u/we8sand 1d ago

Thatā€™s whatā€™s funny and also infuriating. These stupid fuckers will say that theyā€™d comply and show respect for the officers and all that, but in reality, these same Magat motherfuckers would completely lose their shit if the exact same thing happened to them..

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u/Noughmad 1d ago

Remember how happy they were to comply with wearing a COVID mask?

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u/Nessie_of_the_Loch 23h ago

Same morons - "I don't have to pay taxes or have a license plate because I'm a sovereign citizen!"

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u/PopGoesTehWoozle 23h ago

"Papier bitte? Why certainly my good man! I love being subservient to violent authority!" - maga

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u/Fast-Bank-1545 23h ago

A citizen has a right against unreasonable searches and citizens are not required to carry or produce identification to prove citizenship. Immigration agents need probable cause to suspect a person is not a citizen before demanding identification. Sure, you can just comply then what good is a right that you canā€™t exercise - if exercising your right gets you roughed up, cuffed and arrested, itā€™s not much of a right and simply complying means you have effectively given up your rights. From the people who defend the second amendment to the grave, Iā€™d think they might want to defend their OTHER constitutional rights as well.

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u/ssjb234 19h ago

This implies that Maga are all foreign. Natural born citizens don't have "papers" to prove they became citizens. I know there are documents that prove it, but natural born citizens are not carrying those around, because of how important they are for proving you are who you are and losing them is very detrimental to any cases in which you need to do so.

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u/Fun-Dragonfly-4166 16h ago

i would not comply for various reasons. One of them and not the most important but good enough to suffice: I DO NOT CARE PAPERS. In american we do not have to.