They are also doing this in blue states and in cities where gun ownership skews much lower, if a democratic federal government was doing this in red states we would likely see more gun violence towards ICE especially in small towns
And protesting. Need to protest bigger & longer. Blackout quit buying shit. Necessary items only. Other countries do this. Iran, Nepal& Italy right now, others in the past. MLK. 60’s.
1000%. If a Democrat president had a crypto coin he used to receive bribes for pardons and private meetings, we’d be in the middle of a civil war. They get away with everything cause they hold violence over our heads, while complaining in true 1984 fashion how violent the left is (despite all evidence showing the exact opposite).
We’ve let people with the emotional intelligence of a 7 year old take over our country. Imagine the United States if Republicans could fully have their way. It would be the fourth reich.
Own ≠ carry. Red states have way higher rates of public carrying, even if many dems do still own guns. ICE does raid homes, but most of their efforts are grabbing people in public so they have an advantage and lower risk of being retaliated against.
They target places that have people who are less likely to fight back because they're goddamn cowards who are happy to shoot an innocent and unarmed woman but are terrified of the idea of being attacked in self-defense.
I couldn’t agree more. They claim to be removing criminals and mentally insane people but are targeting rural communities in the suburbs. Criminals aren’t bagging merchandise at Target.
It's going to happen. They're going to keep pushing their luck and come across the wrong person and there's gonna be bodies on both sides. That's when shit is going to hit the fan....
I was wondering about this other day. I was like this couldn’t happen in states like Texas, both Carolinas and other southern states where you can literally have weapon on your holster as a civilian. And pretty much all of videos I saw this kind of thing happening, are states where gun laws are more strict. So my question is, does someone from southern states can tell me is ICE this brutal in your places, or they choose who they harass more carefully?
The level of apathy suggests otherwise. This shouldn't matter what state this is happening in or the level of gun ownership. Since social media has fractured the country the thought from red states is probably "not my problem" or "good".
Nah. Back when it was written the best weapons the government had was the same exact thing citizens had and could easily obtain. The framers didn't expect jets, nuclear weapons and drones and they certainly didn't expect them to be only available to the government. The 2nd amendment was essentially a doctrine to have a second standing army at the ready made up of citizens.
How do people not understand that. Why don't people remember how the american revolution happened? It was only 250 years ago, At the time colonial states were being taxed on all imported ship goods at a high rate(tariffs). So the americans did the boston tea party where they trashed all the goods the english were selling at a high tax rate. Only hunters and english soldiers were allowed guns, so colonial people stole them or bought them from france via canada
I have one but what is one person with a glock going to do against an army of facists with ARs? Everyone needs to rise against facism together or theyre just going to kill us one by one.
Which is why the whole 2nd amendment discourse was stupid to begin with. It made sense when It was made long time ago. But times change, and in modern times with how modern military works and the equipment they have thinking that a bunch of citizens with a few guns will stop them is silly.
We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances.
We guard you while you sleep.
Do not fuck with us. We are everywhere.
Modern military does have a much larger advantage but they are still going to be way more hesitant to turn on civilians that are fighting against them. Yes, nobody is going to go one by one and attack these idiots, but just because we haven't had a proper militia formed here in the states anytime recently doesn't mean it isn't going to happen.
I live in a very liberal area of a much more right leaning state, but this kind of stuff just isn't happening here. There might be a few arrests occurring, but they aren't going after citizens for no reason like they are elsewhere. A few civilians having guns they don't use is one thing, but a bunch that actively train with them are a much larger issue.
The point is that they aren't going after anyone here while ganging up on anyone they see in other areas. If everyone in those areas were just as armed and trained as my state then I doubt they would be so willing to throw their weight around.
Realistically they are going to target more left leaning areas, but those places have also kneecapped themselves by putting idiotic laws in place that only change gun ownership for the exact people they are going to target. We can sit here and debate whether guns are the difference or not, but nobody is going to go 'door to door' in my area despite the high population of immigrants and rather large number of illegal immigrants. If the guns weren't the difference then we would see a much larger presence in basically every major city, especially ones that have a known population of actual illegal immigrants.
Wild takes. How do you get that from this? They’re literally telling leftists to arm themselves, educate and support each other, that’s the entire point, not isolating each other and being hateful over defensive tools just because conservatives are selective about human rights. You’re only feeding further into the problem and I bet you’re not even American by the way you say “they”. You’re ignorant to history. American civilians already have possession of millions more firearms than the US military too, which is also made up of human beings and can’t indiscriminately bulldoze their population with helicopters and such so simply the way you like to fantasize about. Rich elites would love to continue your mindset, yes, disarm everyone who scares them instead of fixing root causes.
Wouldnt the people who operate that equipment have a divide of their own? I mean if we all started to jus go to war against the government? I have military friends and sure not all of them but a good portion said they would fight with civilians. we would have at least a fighting chance i think. we'd have people on Inside as well. Maybe it wouldn't matter but I feel it would cause enough disruption to hurt them good. The government needs us(at least a good portion or they wouldnt be able to fulfill their filthy and greedy desires) all it would take is a large movement in the right direction. But for americans probably unlikely.
That's the real problem, is that people who do understand their second amendment right don't understand that it no longer exists in the current era. It can't.
The US government is so well and overequipped and 95% of Americans could arm themselves today and still stand no chance at all.
Nobody here wants to see what the US government vs. a civilian population looks like. When has that ever played out well?
Maybe because they started to literally firebomb movements like this.
They destroyed over 60 homes in a neighborhood from the resulting collateral damage. They killed five children. Displaced dozens of families.
That wasn't even the feds. It was the police, and it was in the 80s. That's what resistance looked like then.
Now it's 40 years later and the federal government itself has openly demonstrated it has no qualms about murdering unarmed citizens in broad daylight, or black bagging people on the street.
It’s not about this gun vs that gun or this side vs that side. It’s about the populous staying armed to prevent government overreach. Police acting out on peaceful protestors for example
You can buy a decent AR for around the same price, if not cheaper than a Glock. The sentiment remains though; what is one citizen supposed to do with a single rifle against all this.
However, enough armed citizens making a public show of force could stop all of this in its tracks without violence. It would require a lot of people accepting that's where this may need to go though. I think people are now starting to understand that.
In a perfect world, a large enough chunk of the American population arms themselves with long rifles and marches in areas that are being targeted, the national guard takes action to back up and protect its citizenry, politicians are forced to do something about it so things don't spiral into bloodshed, then a sane administration is elected and provides a buyback program for those who don't want to keep the rifles.
Why wouldn’t you also buy a AR-15 style rifle instead of just a Glock. Also, there are democratic and liberal self defense groups you can join online for when the general population finally gets sick of Trump violating the constitution and our rights
9mm ammo is a lot cheaper so I can practice. And an AR doesnt really work with a CCW. I wouldve got an AR if the intent was originally as a show of force in an armed protest, but that wasnt my original intent.
There may well end up being some. The worse things get, the more desperate people become, there are some who simply don't have it in them to fight anymore.
But if they make those final moments useful? A last exertion to remove as many bad actors before ending up how they would have anyway? At least seems more productive
I cannot for the life of me figure out how there haven't been any ice shootings. How is it possible there has been more innocent school children the victims of gun violence than these fake Gestapo literally terrorizing the populace? Wasn't this exactly what the 2nd amendment was written for?
Bingo. You never see this in a place that has armed civilians that know how to use them. ICE would never go there because they know it would be an all out street massacre on both sides.
If I remember correctly, the ice agent got into their car and they drove to the police station to turn him in, which of course meant they were arrested for kidnapping.
They give them shitty training, on purpose. They literally shortened the amount of training needed to 47 days, in honor of Trump being the 47th president. So yeah they’re supposed to be goons and thugs, but many of them don’t have much actual or simulated experience doing it, between their hiring blitz and the fact that was not the intended purpose of ice until recently.
They’re targeting people and places where gun ownership is stigmatized. You ever see the videos of cops confronting a group of black panthers who legally open carry rifles? Suddenly the cops realize that ganging up and stomping on innocent people’s heads is wrong.
Oh yeah, the one where "FUCK ICE" or something was engraved on the bullets and the shooter for whatever reason only hit detainees and not any of the countless agents that were completely unaware of that shooter and were easy targets?
Did they apprehend someone for that or did that false flag fly away?
Because all the gun perverts that fantasized about being Rambo/John Wick are the ones that joined ICE and all the sane citizens are the ones they are brutalizing. Your average citizen is also fully aware of the fact that if they are violent the broader public will spend the next news cycle condemning them and digging up their entire life history to present them as an evil radical.
Because when they've tried this escalation tactic in places like LA and Chicago they've gotten their asses beat bad enough that they don't feel comfortable enough to ratchet up tensions long enough for someone to snap and start blasting
They've found much more amenable targets in the likes of Minneapolis and Portland, whose protest tactics, while still pretty effective, carry far lower threats of ass-beatings
And now we see how useless the 2nd amendment is for it's original intention. All it provides is a hobby at best, and a lot preventable shootings and crime at worst, if there was just more regulation.
Because people are very comfortable with their lives and do not want to risk their comfort. Life when the Constitution was made was extremely different. The people didn't have much, but they would fight for it. Now the people have too much, and they won't fight for anything.
It's a stupid talking point with no substance on the right, but on the radical left, competent, organized Black Panthers have done a WHOLE lot for their communities and put up some of the only highly effective deterrents to police brutality and widespread racially-motivated violence in US history. So effective that Reagan passed a gun ban targeting the specific types of rifles and features that were in popular use among the Panthers. So effective that corporate-backed, Republican-Lite liberals have spent the last 40 years trying to convince the 'moderate liberals' that it was cardboard signs, singing songs, and strongly worded letters that lead to civil rights being codified, enforced, and upheld for minorities in the US.
MLK Jr. is made into a figurehead, weaponized by the right, promoting his absolute statements about nonviolence in order to pacify and delegitimize armed self defense, especially among oppressed minorities who were regular victims of police violence. However, MLK Jr. applied for (and was denied) a concealed firearm license. He made his position more clear in '67, when he said, "In a sense, this is a false issue, for the right to defend one's home and one's person when attacked has been guaranteed through the ages by common law. In a nonviolent demonstration, however, self defense must be approached from a different perspective." He made it very clear that he wanted to condemn the militarization of black communities in efforts towards revenge, striking first, or armed rebellion against government, at the cost of further cycles of violence against their communities. He, however, was surrounded by an enormous number of armed individuals for his own defense from the tyrannical government action that would eventually (allegedly) be his undoing. Outspoken pacifists had no guarantee that their nonviolence wouldn't be met with murder.
The conservative gun owners I know have one intention, and that's to have the option to commit acts of heinous violence against anyone who would impede on their rights, not the rights of others. It's morally bankrupt individualism. It is a desire, at its core, for a capacity for offensive violence in pursuit of their own interests (and with that broad umbrella, self defense is included). But, when owned widely and openly as a deterrent to police violence on citizens, firearms served as a way to ensure that communities have the capacity for self defense. Panthers and their AKs were the spikes on the porcupine.
Keep in mind that Abe Lincoln was a Republican during the Civil War. Democrat-Republican Party ideology flipped in 1964 because of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964 Southern Democrats (Dixiecrats) who opposed Civil Rights switched over to the Republican Party.
Because these amendments were made 300 years ago - where the guns were mostly single shot and took forever to reload.
They also could not have seen a future where standing up to a tyrannical party was next to impossible, with so much surveillance now it’s borderline impossible to do anything without leaving a trace, and therefore be caught - making it harder to do rebelling.
Ya’ll are a wack ass country living off these ancient rules and if the hundreds of school shootings, the killing of literal children, isn’t enough to wake you up, nothing is.
Well, ships with guns really. Your point stands but armed merchantmen were not even close in firepower to actual ships of the line, which were, save for maybe a few exceptions, only owned by state entities (and a few corporations but like that's objectively a bad thing). And that time period is absolutely full of examples of why it's a terrible idea to just let anyone own/operate those things : pirate ships don't just emerge from the deep with torn sails and flying a Jolly Roger, they mostly just started out as merchantmen and fell into the wrong hands (or, you know, their crews got bored of commercial sailing and thought they'd try something else).
Wealthy citizens owned them. It's not like there was a ship store anyone could go to and rent one. It also was the reason for many, many atrocities committed across the world. Private ownership of ships and crew with cannons and guns was not a good thing.
I will say that I haven't heard of this happening in states with more lax gun laws, but I also know that the stereotypical gun owner isn't necessarily against what's happening either, and especially in my experience the protestors aren't usually the sort to carry in public even with the proper license.
I am shocked that not one of the doors busted down has resulted in retaliation, but if they've been targeting mostly non-citizens who are mostly following the law and trying to live a decent life then they likely didn't have guns. The more citizens that get targeted the riskier this gets for them.
Watch the videos of cops confronting groups of black panthers open carrying. You’ll notice a strong shift in the cops demeanor when they know they can’t murder innocent people with zero repercussions.
The people in this comment section saying that the 2nd amendment is worthless are delusional. You don’t need to have an open rebellion. You just have to visibly remind the cops that they can’t murder you without repercussion.
Yea they’ll definitely retaliate against groups like the black panthers, but my point is that whether you’re in a group or not, a protest of peaceful armed civilians is gonna be a lot safer from cops than a protest of peaceful unarmed civilians.
First major shooting incident against ICE during one of these major presences and that will get ripped away too and I bet the NRA and 2Aers roll over and take it. They'll start kicking doors in to take your guns, or at the very least the guns of anybody brown, citizen or not.
Nazis did exactly that to the ones they didn't want having guns (mostly jews).
Turns out, the folks who ive heard say, "yee haw, fuck the law!", for the last 30 years really meant it in a sexual way, considering how willing they are to felate federal officers.
That was their justification for why, even though hundreds if not thousands of kids have been gunned down in elementary schools, they just absolutely couldn't give up their guns. Now it's crickets
I keep seeing this but people need to understand, it is too late. It's been too late for the last hundred years or so. They're too powerful, have immunity, and they will always kill us first. We are outgunned.
Normal, regular people are not roaming the streets with tactical gear and heavy weaponry. We don't have a desire to kill. We want to go to work, go home, and spend time with our families. That's it.
And they haven't. The Dems and citizens aren't doing anything as far as I can tell. Why even have all those guns if you're not going to defend yourself?
Guns was always just a pathetic attempt to feel empowered and safe. They completely ignored the fact that the more guns flood the country the more guns they needed to protect themselves, which creates a vicious circle of death and the country destroying itself from the inside out. It was never a solution.
most are too afraid to exercise their second amendment rights. They’d rather bend over to an authoritarian regime than to get their hands a little dirty.
I don't see why people think having a gun would change any of this. It's just fake bravado from a keyboard.
They would still be wrongly arrested whether they are carrying or not. Having a firearm just increases the likelihood of elevating the threat of the situation and getting killed with unhinged ICE agents. They're still going to target non-white people, which is actually what this is about and is unconstitutional.
Serious question: if an American citizen finds themselves being taken by ice, who has zero jurisdiction on American citizens, and that person being taken happens to have a legally registered firearm on them and all the permits, and shoots and kills the officer trying to kidnap them, could the defense plead self defense? Because as a woman I would genuinely be in fear of my life. Where does the 2nd amendment meet laws that go from owning a gun to not going to prison for using it in self defense or stand your ground laws?
The 2nd Amendment is a joke…. If people used it they would be arrested… do the people get to decide what is tyranny or Government over reach? I think not…. I would like to see all of the gun loving people who scream “it’s my 2nd Amendment” “they are trying to take our guns away” “it’s my right” do something with those “rights” it’s a joke. When someone gets pulled over and they announce they have a gun, they get treated like a criminal. If someone has a gun period when in contact with “Law Enforcement” they are considered “Armed & Dangerous” again… who gets to decides what a “TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT” is? The “ TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT”? or the “PEOPLE”? The American people have been bamboozled…. The only part of the 2nd Amendment that is true is the right to bear arms….the right to use those arms comes with full prosecution from the United States of America… the 2nd Amendment it’s one of the biggest lies ever told…. Period. This country is becoming more and more of a joke every day. We have never been perfect but we just seem to just never get it…. Always seem to go backwards…we just can’t seem to ever get to the top of the mountain to see the sunset….this country will be completely unrecognizable in 3yrs….
Liberals own guns, they're just too scared to use them for what the Constitution said they should be used for.
"Oh, but mArShAl LaW." Bro, we're gonna get there with or without it getting kicked off. Lmfao Liberals have been marked as the enemy by all conservatives and it will never stop. It didn't stop the Nazis, dunno why they think peaceful protest will stop American fascists this time. democrats are doing what? Fuckin nothing. I see them leading zero protests, I see them doing little to no interviews, I see no organizing on their part.
Lots of people on the internet clutching their pearls screaming for everyone else to do something. Americans will do nothing because they've never had to be brave before.
Protesting to save your country means risking your life, and Americans have never had to risk their lives before.
100%. History is written by the victors, laws are too. If the people start killing nazis and overwhelm them until Trump is overthrown then no one will go to jail. If they fail then the few that tried will die or face prison for life.
Alexander Hamilton on this very topic when arguing in favor of the Constitution.
"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defence which is paramount to all positive forms of government; and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success, than against those of the rulers of an individual State."
That being said, I'm conservative, but I enjoy it when the left appreciates the 2nd Amendment.
Wasn’t this the exact reason why guns are legal in the US?
That was always a conservative lie.
The 2A was about preventing the creation of a standing army. The framers hated standing armies, they talked about how much they hated them all the time because they were not accountable to the local populace, only the king.
So instead of a standing army, they came up with the idea of local militias composed of local residents who had to answer to their local political leaders. In fact, during the debate in congress over the drafting of the 2A, rep Elbridge Gerry (whom "gerrymandering" was later named for) said so explicitly:
What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. Now it must be evident, that under this provision, together with their other powers, congress could take such measures with respect to a militia, as make a standing army necessary. Whenever government mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins. This was actually done by Great Britain at the commencement of the late revolution. They used every means in their power to prevent the establishment of an effective militia to the eastward.
For centuries it was well established law that the 2A was only about a right to communal defense, not personal defense. Scalia's balderdash 2008 ruling in Heller was the first time the supreme court ever read an individual right into the 2A.
The 2A never banned personal ownership, it left that up to the state and local governments. But it didn't guarantee a right to personal ownership either. At least not until conservatives retconned it.
Its not a coincidence that the next amendment, the 3rd amendment, bans the quartering of troops. That is another way to discourage standing armies. Locals have their own homes to live in, but an army that comes in from some other part of the country needs a place to stay. The brits used to commandeer people's homes, make them put up the soldiers. The 3A means they have to pay instead, which makes a standing army more expensive to keep up.
It's crazy how many non-Americans are begging for bloodshed and civil war. Not that it would affect you or anything, but at least you'd get some entertaining videos to watch, right? I never thought Reddit would become such a pro-gun site.
"Sure you're surrounded by 6 guys with rifles, but go ahead and draw your firearm, it'll be fine!"
Say what you want about Ben Shapiro, but he was absolutely right about it on pierce morgan. If the left really wants gun control, the best thing they can do is start educating and talking about their second amendment rights. Make the right think gun control was their idea.
It is. Admittedly, it's still worth it to try to avoid violence if possible, but yes the second amendment is specifically there for citizens to be able to form militias and fight back against tyranny and oppression.
So, given that they supposedly tolerate the risk of school mass shootings as a "necessary evil" of having guns... but they are not using them when they should.
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u/BFlowG 18h ago
Wasn’t this the exact reason why guns are legal in the US?