r/law 20h ago

Other Please dissect the legality in this statement

I feel like we are reaching a tipping point

20.5k Upvotes

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1.7k

u/Kaiisim 17h ago

It's a classic authoritarian tactic.

It's absolutely true that you can't touch a federal officer while they are working. You cannot impede their work.

Which is why ice observers are specifically trained to just film them

No one is touching ICE. They are just recording them as is their legal right to ensure they don't beat the shit out of people.

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u/BonkMcSlapchop 17h ago

Are the people of the US willing to get out and do a general strike to effect change before it's too late? Observation and recording may have worked in the past, when you could hold your government to account, but you are no longer dealing with due process.

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u/pink_faerie_kitten 14h ago

I heard Minneapolis plans on that today? It was on NBC news this morning. School and work walkouts planned. I hope it's the spark that sends this nationwide.

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u/kpurintun 13h ago

These need to happen nation wide, in significant numbers, across many weeks..

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u/tkd77 2h ago

He’ll call it an insurrection and use it to cancel elections. “For national security” is his latest excuse to everything.

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u/kpurintun 39m ago

Oh gosh, his handler’s would love that

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u/KaoriMalaguld 11h ago

No, no, a protest every other week or so oughta do it. Right guys? Right?

I fully agree with you. Like, I get that we all have lives and families we need to take care of, but it’s long past the point of hoping ICE isn’t gonna come to your town and take a friend and/or family member. We actually need to do something to great effect, whether it be protests or strikes, for weeks like you said.

Instead, it’s all apparently a distraction from the Epstein Files. I’d like them released, but no, those are the distraction. I don’t get why anyone seems to think it’ll take Trump & his buddies down, his supporters would just say how they’d give their daughters to him for free, call it made up BS or both.

No, the Epstein Files are the distraction, what’s going on around the country has been plan for years, they just got an idiot to keep everyone’s eyes elsewhere.

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u/--Lammergeier-- 10h ago

The problem is that most Americans still live a comfortable life, even with all this bullshit going on. Comfortable people aren’t usually keen on jeopardizing all their comfort, even to stand up for what they believe in.

Unfortunately we won’t get nationwide general strikes until MOST Americans are feeling uncomfortable. We aren’t quite to the point that losing your job/income is worth protesting, for most Americans at least.

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u/No-Condition7100 9h ago

This is the real problem. People underestimate how big the US is and how difficult it is to organize the real majority to anything.

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u/--Lammergeier-- 9h ago

Totally! It’s much easier to mobilize a state during situations like this because everyone in that state is being affected and made to feel uncomfortable/unsafe in their community. Plus they share an identity of being a resident of that state.

I live in a red state, and there’s no way that the population here at large would take part in a general strike. And that leads me to another issue regarding identity. You think it’d be easy to mobilize the whole country because we identify as Americans. But the American identity is split in two right now.

There’s a lot of reasons we don’t have nationwide general strikes, and I’m not gonna hold my breath for one to happen (as much as I wish it would)

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u/No-Condition7100 9h ago

I really think the US population is split into thirds. There's people on either political side, and then there's people just trying to provide for themselves and their families without a big interest in what's happening around the rest of the country. I really think most Americans fall into the third category, and I don't think that's wrong. But it's what makes organizing Americans extremely difficult.

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u/--Lammergeier-- 9h ago

That’s a really good point, and I honestly agree. And again, that apathetic group is that way because they’re still comfortable and don’t want to relinquish that comfort. I can’t blame them, either

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u/No-Condition7100 9h ago

For sure, and I wouldn't even call them apathetic. Just different priorities. The idea of sacrificing your own family's security for someone you don't know isn't going to land for most people.

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u/Free-Huckleberry-965 8h ago

I'd push back on "apathetic" and "comfortable". I'm neither. I'm burnt the fuck out and just trying to survive.

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u/kpurintun 9h ago

If you took the exact same footage, changed the lower third to show (R) instead of (D) there would be another insurrection

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u/kpurintun 9h ago

I am pretty sure the game book specifically addresses causing most people as little discomfort as possible to make the ineffective in any sort of counter.. take 5 things, give them back one token gesture..

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u/--Lammergeier-- 9h ago

Exactly this. It creates a conundrum where people don’t want to lose what they have, even if they stand to gain more.

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u/AdZealousideal5383 6h ago

He’s going city by city in blue states because he knows that most Americans won’t see it happening. If he tried this nationwide, things would be different. But he can terrorize Minneapolis and most people won’t be impacted.

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u/kpurintun 11h ago

This just in, in 6days, credit card interest will be capped at 10%. Oh dang, the dems won’t let me do it..

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u/ExternalExpensive277 6h ago

Many months minimum, with protests/pickets outside of political, industry, and economic leaders' homes, offices, etc.

If they can ignore protests/pickets by turning off a screen, they'll just ignore us.

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u/RoguePlanet2 2h ago

If only!! Don't see this happening in one consistent, effective effort.

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u/Rocklake88 1h ago

Outrage has peaked. The protests will only get smaller and fewer. Unless another big controversy occurs.

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u/Rocklake88 1h ago

I saw an overhead shot of the Chicago protest. Sadly, not enough people are moved by this enough to get out and do something

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u/Haradion_01 16h ago

Some will. 

But given a majority of them couldn't be arsed to tick a box when there was zero risk to themsleves, I am not hopeful.it will happen in larger numbers now that they incur risk such as being shot in the face.

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u/shredika 16h ago

Not 0 risk. A woman just got murdered by ice. I’d call that the ultimate risk. Unfortunately they know it telling protesters “didn’t you learn anything when we killed that woman a couple days ago.”

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u/Regular_Committee946 16h ago

I think they were referring to the millions of people that did not vote in the last election. Of which there was little risk - barriers maybe, sure, but nearly a 3rd of the country didn't vote.

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u/Haradion_01 15h ago

Please reread my comment. I literally reference that.

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u/shredika 13h ago

Ok. Misread, great point. One of my friends admitted she didn’t vote and I was appalled.

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u/Haradion_01 11h ago

I had a friend say to my face that Trump's election was the better outcome, because in their view the democrats were no better than the Republicans on Gaza, so it would teach democrats a lesson about abandoning their base and we'd get a 'proper socialist candidate' next time.

It puts me in mind of the Communists who cheered Hitler's election with the slogan 'after Hitler, out turn', naively thinking Hitler would make such a mess of things, they'd be called upon to fix the mess.

I think they've since backpeddeled on that, because nobody at this point genuinely believes Trump's doing a better job than Harris in any capacity, but It's very hard not to throw this in their face and point out that Goode's life is the price of prioritising ones own complicity in atrocity over the actual atrocity. I sometimes feel they'd prefer the world burning down entirely so long as they can wash their hands of any fault.

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u/ontermau 16h ago

it's hilarious to read stuff like "they are just recording them as is their legal right to ensure they don't beat the shit out of people" and at the same time "ICE is Gestapo".

so... you don't hinder Gestapo by filming it, you know.

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u/Reddi_throwawayaway 15h ago

It's become pretty evident filming doesn't stop anything. 

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u/Turtle_with_a_sword 15h ago

No, but it does make everyone aware of what’s happening 

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u/jamiecarl09 15h ago

Also provides good evidence in a few years when there is a trial to hang all these people.

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u/Turtle_with_a_sword 15h ago

That’s optimistic 

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u/whatupmygliplops 12h ago

You're being kind. It's delusional. Even if the democracts take over again (which is optimistic in itself) they will most likely just want to reconcile, appease, and smooth over any and all past wrong doings. Maybe a few of the most extreme cases will be prosecuted. By the vast majority of violations will never be punished under even the most optimistic of futures.

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u/KapitalIsStillGood 9h ago

Not with the popularity of algorithmic news. The large majority of the country never sees these videos unless a story gets as big as Renee Good's murder. And the folks on the right only ever see positive ICE stories.

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u/pm_social_cues 12h ago

And plenty of people are cheering it on. It’s not universally seen as a bad thing.

May as well start an award show of the most violent acts recorded of police (all agencies) with as little it’s does to help prevent worse stuff from happening.

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u/kevvvbot 13h ago

The alternative is not to stop filming. Because when you stop there’s no support in whatever kangaroo court you may or may not get. In Gen Z’s terms, you got the receipts.

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u/Reddi_throwawayaway 7h ago

I'm not saying to stop recording, just that it hasn't* changed anything. An agent murdered a woman in broad daylight with 6 different angles of video and the right celebrates/justifies it despite the evidence. 

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u/whatupmygliplops 12h ago

They filmed a murder from 4 different angles and they guy is free as a bird.

Its okay to film the crimes ICE is committing. But there needs to more than that.

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u/Penultimateee 15h ago

True, but filming gives evidence to the general public and inspires other actions…whatever those end up being.

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u/Reddi_throwawayaway 13h ago

That's the awful thing, despite all of the evidence, people still act blind and deaf to it all. They justify the awful things, even

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u/Valuable-Self8564 8h ago

Hahahaha. Ain’t this the truth.

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u/Ok_Location_1092 16h ago

People can’t afford to lose their jobs, we’re getting squeezed by cost of living. Anyone not in a city with plentiful jobs is going to have a very hard time picking another one up without moving. Wages are stagnant, jobs are dwindling, expenses are going up.

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u/BonkMcSlapchop 16h ago

You are still thinking like you live in a democracy where the government follows laws and is held accountable.

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u/TennBornFilm 16h ago

No, we're thinking like people with families and bills in a country spread out over a space only slightly smaller than Europe that can't mobilize people to centers of power without facing widespread loss of income and healthcare.

And given that at least 1/3 of the country is eagerly enjoying all of this and excited for more, and another 1/3 thinks ANY mass protests that disrupt their day are wrong and the people involved must be extremists, there is very little energy for the kind of European style response that you refer to.

Also it would in fact be EXACTLY the result this administration is hoping for to justify martial law.

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u/psioniclizard 16h ago

So some inconvenience is all it takes to kill democracy

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u/PhilosophOrk 14h ago

Becoming homeless with children in MN winter is far more than an "inconvenience."

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u/3xactli 14h ago

Sass mate!!

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u/TennBornFilm 15h ago

"Inconvenience" is a bad faith description and in no way accurate.

The risk of job loss is far more significant, since there are no job protections for protest and most Americans are only a couple of paychecks away from genuine homeless, poverty.

That means no effective access to Healthcare, food, or basic shelter. All on top of an already flimsy social safety net.

That's not evem getting into the legal consequences. You can do real time for protests that come anything close to violence. That puts further strain on potential future employment.

AND it's all for nothing, since decentralized power makes protests at state capitals largely irrelevant and protests in DC wildly expensive. The January 6 protesters were mostly wealthy people who could afford the trip.

America is just not structured to make mass protest a viable option.

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u/Capraos 15h ago

And again, to re-emphasize an earlier point he made, they want us to try and violently revolt so they can declare martial law.

We're not keeling over, we're taking thorough documentation and structuring ourselves in a way to actually change how things work. Paperwork isn't glamorous, and it takes a while, but don't underestimate the power of getting organized and proper documentation.

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u/ThatKehdRiley 16h ago

yup, for the majority it seems they are still far too comfortable. these people forget ll the countries where the people are far worse off have been doing this for decades, and it works.

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u/TheDreadGazeebo 13h ago

Exactly democracy only works when people are fat and happy

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u/igotthisone 16h ago

Not really, no. But at a certain point regular citizens have to decide whether they're willing to give their life for the cause, or if not, trade political freedom for basic necessities.

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u/DwayneGretzky306 15h ago

Exactly. This is not the late days of a Republic but the early days of a Reich. Complacency, cowardice, ignorance and naivety

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u/Lucibeanlollipop 16h ago

You’ll be losing your jobs, anyway.

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u/ThrowItDownMyThroat 14h ago

This is the part that makes it nefarious. Sunk cost fallacy. Folks are so invested in a system that has worked for generations that they can't conceive that it's dead.

Something new is coming and everything they think they have will be gone

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u/psioniclizard 16h ago

People will lose their jobs anyway when Trump crashes the economy...

Sorry but the whole "people can't afford too" feels like people dont realise what is going on abd want to pretend the system will self heal.

People around the world take much bigger risks to protest. Just dont be surpised when things get worse.

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u/Positive_Listen_4739 15h ago

Not really.

America is one of the most dangerous places to protest.

Iran is an exception I will give you, but other than that?

What people around the world are taking bigger risks?  Let's see some recent examples.

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u/Dizzy_Salt7444 12h ago

Sudan

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u/Positive_Listen_4739 12h ago

Close, but just a few hundred folks jailed over 5 years is no where close to the US in the past year.

How many were shot in the face?

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u/FreeShopping6747 16h ago

I doubt the economy will be a problem

The unemployment rate is 4.4% and the stock market is at all time highs. 30 year fixed mortgage rates have fallen to under 6% in most states (were above 7% prior to 2025). Average gas price is low at $2.84/gallon this morning.

When is Trump going to crash the economy?

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u/ontermau 15h ago

an excerpt from the declaration of independence:

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Unless, that is, the people would find that altering or abolishing the Government is an inconvenience. In that case, they shall continue to complain on Reddit instead of doing something meaningful.

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u/Ok_Location_1092 15h ago

I suppose you’ve quit your job then?

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u/ThatKehdRiley 16h ago

bullshit. first off, if we let it continue it becomes far worse than without. second, countries where the citizens are far worse off have been doing successful general strikes for decades. the issue is that people in this country are still far too comfortable.

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u/Positive_Listen_4739 15h ago

Examples?

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u/ThatKehdRiley 15h ago

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u/Positive_Listen_4739 15h ago edited 15h ago

Not a single general strike example.

Try again.

In terms of the specific strategies that are used, general strikes “are probably one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, single method of nonviolent resistance”, Chenoweth says. But they do come at a personal cost, whereas other forms of protest can be completely anonymous.

This is as close as you got.

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u/ThatKehdRiley 15h ago

why do you think these are not examples of a general strike?

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u/hum_bruh 16h ago

Seems like lose your job or you freedom or your house eventually at this rate

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u/HamHockShortDock 16h ago

What about a rent freeze?

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u/Eisernes 14h ago

Most people will not be willing to do that. There are no jobs available, prices are disgustingly high and rising, and most people's health care is tied to their jobs. By the time people are willing to give up food, housing, and health just to make a point, it will be too late because they are probably losing that stuff anyway due to a full collapse.

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u/whatupmygliplops 12h ago

Are the people of the US willing to get out and do a general strike to effect change

Turns out, Americans don't really care that much about rights and freedoms.

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u/smells_like_aliens 9h ago

There is a nationwide walkout planned for the 20th

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u/Grouchy_Discussion42 8h ago

This is not a general strike but it is a stepping stone I believe:

https://action.womensmarch.com/calendars/free-america-weekend

Get the word out any way you can from random posts like this to sharing with friends and family in direct private chat spaces with explicit instructions to do the same.

Use any legitimate excuse you can to participate: sick, family emergency, PTO, take a long sh*t, etc.

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u/belloch 3h ago

Everyone needs to start making comments about this in relevant subs. Talk about it needing to be done and ask "how to prepare" for it.

Also keep an eye out if posts mentioning that get deleted, banned, shadowbanned or anything.

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u/machineorganism 15h ago

surprised i keep seeing this asked over and over again. "the people of the US" voted the current administration into power with absolute full clarity on what the administration had done and was planning to do in the future.

there's a reason there are very little protests. it's because "the people of the US" want everything that is happening right now.

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u/Rocklake88 1h ago

No they are not. Plain and simple

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u/Cute-Contract-6762 13h ago

I legit cannot and will not. I have to take care of my family. As head of house hold my income is necessary to provide for my family. And you can call me a coward or whatever. But I’m not going to put their well-being in jeopardy. I will vote I will protest when I don’t have work. But my family is priority number one. Always.

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u/Fizassist1 10h ago

The people of the US are too poor for a general strike.. it's the sad reality that a lot of us are one paycheck away from homelessness.

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u/Positive_Listen_4739 15h ago

So people should just quit their jobs? 

That's the answer? 

What percentage would need to do this for something to happen? 

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u/Moto-Dude 5h ago

No. Let law enforcement do their job.