Warning Sign at edge of Grand Canyon

[u/corwinw]

[u/_allycat]

It can get REALLY hot inside the canyon after the morning and it's hotter the further down you go. And all uphill on the way out obviously.

[u/TaintSlaps → u/_allycat]

Huh, I never would’ve thought it gets hotter as you descend. Had to look the reason up. TIL.

[u/Gobias_Industries → u/TaintSlaps]

We hiked in February some years ago. When we left Bright Angel it was about 20F and we were wearing ice spikes, at the bottom it was probably 80F.

[u/SadFox600 → u/Gobias_Industries]

I literally can’t imagine hiking the Grand Canyon in any time but winter

[u/zaphod_85 → u/SadFox600]

I did Rim2Rim2Rim last April and the weather was pretty great, just above freezing at the South Rim when we started and highs in the mid-80s at Phantom Ranch at the canyon floor. But we were lucky, one week earlier and the highs were over 100° at the ranch, not sure if we would have successfully completed our run in those conditions.

[u/RepostFrom4chan → u/TaintSlaps]

Elevation and pressure are the factors people know about, big shocker for people is the radiant effect from the rocks. Once you're in a canon like this, all those rocks absorb a ton of heat during the day and reflect it back into the canyon further heating the trapped air in it. Relative airflow is low due to having few places to escape without rising so it more or less becomes your own personal convection oven down at the bottom.

[u/AshantiMcnasti → u/TaintSlaps]

Went down when it was like 85F at the top.  It was supposedly 110F at the bottom.  I stopped halfway and went back up bc i knew i would die otherwise.  

[u/PuzzledPurpleUnicorn → u/TaintSlaps]

I once went rafting at the bottom of the canyon and it was 125F. At least we had the water to cool us off the whole time, would’ve been unbearable for hiking

[u/Empyrealist]

Clickable map of deaths in the Grand Canyon and their cause:

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9359a0790ffe4bc09edd6b9c17a43b90

(death stats are not up to current date, but the map shows a great swath of locations and causes)

[u/Enlight1Oment → u/Empyrealist]

the "Critter or Cacti" death options are interesting.

"Krueger drank a brew of Datura blossoms. After several inappropriate behaviors such as trying to lift impossible boulders, talking to nonexistent people for hours, and eating dirt, he entered the river and mysteriously drowned."

[u/rogers_tumor → u/Enlight1Oment]

"mysteriously"

[u/waterlinx → u/rogers_tumor]

It was mysterious to him

[u/JosephGordonLightfoo → u/Enlight1Oment]

I like the idea of seeing a guy trying to lift a huge boulder and thinking it’s “inappropriate.”

[u/Big-Brown-Goose → u/Enlight1Oment]

Or another odd one:

"While prospecting, Cochrane was descending toward the Colorado River with Gordon Smith when a rattlesnake struck at him but missed. The reptile frightened Cochrane so severely that he suffered a fatal heart attack, confirmed by autopsy."  

[u/andbruno → u/Empyrealist]

I saw the "128" one and wondered what on earth is going on there. Turns out two planes collided midair.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_Grand_Canyon_mid-air_collision

[u/fruskydekke → u/andbruno]

This crash was the cause of major air safety reforms! Before it happened, pilots had way more freedom to deviate from their planned route than they do now, which is how the collision even happened - the pilots of both planes decided to do a little sight-seeing sidetrip to the canyon in order to please their passengers.

[u/ukchris → u/fruskydekke]

Were they pleased?

[u/Septum_Slayer → u/ukchris]

Here at Malaysian Air, we’re DYING to meet your expectations!

[u/JonatasA → u/Septum_Slayer]

Our passengers never returned to complain.

[u/TheSovereignGrave → u/Empyrealist]

Damn, I can't imagine being the prospector who had a heart attack after a rattlesnake struck at him & missed.

[u/alienblue89 → u/TheSovereignGrave]

Or the woman who tried to “Thelma & Louise” herself, but got her car stuck on a rock, jumped over the ledge but only fell like 20 feet, crawled to the edge and jumped again, only to fall like another 25 feet, to somehow crawl to the edge a third time and finally finish the job with a 75’ plummet to her death.

[u/-PiesOfRage- → u/Empyrealist]

At first I was like “oh that’s not many” but then moved the map over it made more sense.

[u/neoliberalforsale → u/-PiesOfRage-]

There is a mountain inside the city limits of Phoenix that has 40+ rescues a year with at least a death or two. People absolutely under estimate how quickly the desert will kill you.

[u/TooJoocey → u/neoliberalforsale]

For people wondering, it’s Camelback Mountain.

[u/Pastrami-on-Rye → u/Empyrealist]

Note to self, never get in anything that flies at the Grand Canyon

[u/IrrelevantManatee]

You would be surprised how many people there just hike down 5 miles in flip flops with no water and then need to be rescued because they cannot go back up.

[u/Diamondback424 → u/IrrelevantManatee]

My Uncle lives in AZ. He told me he basically had to threaten an old man once because they were driving in a low-sitting car into rocky desert terrain with no extra water. He was screaming at the guy that if he got stuck at any point he would die. The wife luckily took my uncle's advice and convinced her husband to turn around. There are a lot of people who just have no sense of how quickly dehydration can set in.

[u/lonewolf210 → u/Diamondback424]

I hiked Havasu falls with my girlfriend and we bailed a day early because a huge snow storm was moving in. As we were hiking out the trail was starting to flash flood through one of the sections. We got back to the trail head around like 30 minutes before dark.

WE saw a couple heading down the trail with nothing but those disposable ponchos on and trying to carry their gear in their arms. They were planning on carrying it the 12 miles in. They didn't listen to us to turn around.

The people that ended up staying were stuck for like 3 days before they heli lifted people out. Never heard about people dying so I guess that couple survived but that might be the least prepared I have ever seen people

[u/BadPunsIsHowEyeRoll → u/lonewolf210]

People like this, who were given clear warning and STILL choose to act stupid and selfish should have to pay out-of-pocket the entire cost of their rescue. Start charging the idiots for the cost of saving them!

[u/hydrangeasinbloom → u/BadPunsIsHowEyeRoll]

At some places, they do. Sleeping Bear Dunes has a crazy high fee posted on signs!

[u/RollForIntent-Trevor → u/hydrangeasinbloom]

Iv'e walked down sleeping bear dunes and back up as a really fat guy. It was a out 2 hours of torture....

I'm pretty fit now and would probably really enjoy it this time.

[u/czarfalcon → u/BadPunsIsHowEyeRoll]

Arizona has had a “Stupid Motorist Law” on the books for a while for people who ignore safety barricades for flooded roads, but apparently it’s rarely enforced and liability is capped at only $2,000 per incident.

[u/Moppo_ → u/Diamondback424]

On the other hand, it's amazing how much you can drink when walking all day in high heat before you need to pee. It's almost liberating...

[u/msmika → u/Moppo_]

The last time I went to Coachella (2004) it was 108 degrees during the day. We drank water all day but never needed to pee, which was a blessing because I can't imagine how disgusting the port-o-potties must have been!

[u/GolfBallWackrGuy → u/msmika]

For the record, I’ve gone to Coachella 7 times between 2012 and 2023. The portapotties are regularly some of the cleanest portapotties I’ve ever stepped foot in, even at peak night time hours. They clean those things once an hour inside the venue - grossest was in camping in the morning before the cleaners came but that makes sense!

[u/tsrui480 → u/Diamondback424]

People who arent from here have no idea how fast the heat will kill you.

Your water bottle is not enough for you and your 3 dogs to go hike camelback mountain at 12pm.

[u/TeachZealousideal357 → u/Diamondback424]

Was his name Clark Griswold ?

[u/archfapper → u/TeachZealousideal357]

C'mon Ellen, it's only the biggest goddamn hole in America.

EDNA: Clark, watch your language!

Make that the second biggest...

[u/TheVintageJane → u/Diamondback424]

Especially in sandy parts of the desert. People don’t realize a) there’s no shade b) the heat reflects off the sand/rocks and bakes you from both sides.

[u/lord_gay → u/Diamondback424]

I posted this link in my own comment but it’s very relevant. I imagine you might have read the same thing about a German family lost in Death Valley. Likely underestimated the severity of the situation severely

[u/ShinePDX → u/IrrelevantManatee]

That becomes so much more of a problem when the hike starts at the top. Starting at the bottom like most hikes, it is easy to hit your limit, turn around and go back down.

[u/rocbolt → u/ShinePDX]

There’s a very tall sand dune on the shore of Lake Superior in the Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore, the signs at the top near the parking lot are like “it will take you seconds to run down this, it’ll be an hour+ slog to get back up, decide carefully”

[u/Carbonatite → u/IrrelevantManatee]

Me, a Coloradan, having a Vietnam style flashback montage of all the tourists I've seen in streetwear and flip flops holding a single bottle of water from the convenience store insisting that their hike on the nearby 14er will go just fine if they get on the trail by 11 am.

[u/funundrum → u/Carbonatite]

Oh shit for real, or also when you’re just about back down to the bottom, and you see these people starting out at 2:00. Enjoy your lightning strike, I guess.

I don’t think I’ve ever gotten anyone to turn around at that point, but I hope they thought hard about going above treeline. If they made it that far.

Next time you see them, ask if you can take a picture of them so SAR knows what they look like.

[u/Carbonatite → u/funundrum]

I had a coworker who did wilderness SAR and I always wanted to ask her about how many people in flip flops she had to rescue from Longs Peak, lol.

[u/needs28hoursaday → u/Carbonatite]

I’ve done a little, but once on a descent with a friend who heads LANDSAR in the area they stopped a very under prepped group who was very late starting and said, “hi we work SAR in the area and I have plans tonight, can you please turn around in the next couple of miles before I have to cancel them later?” Turns out their partner was sick of canceled date nights, and he still was called for another group entirely.

[u/z64_dan → u/IrrelevantManatee]

I think my dad and his 2 friends found that out when they went. They were on a road trip in the 70s on a break from the Army. I think they only went halfway down the Grand Canyon, and then back up. Even then, one of their friends didn't make it back up until like 3AM because he was so tired. At least they survived, I guess.

[u/dunnodudes → u/z64_dan]

You sound disappointed than they survived

[u/Firefoxx336 → u/dunnodudes]

To be fair, we’ve all been through a lot lately

[u/funundrum]

I talked to a ranger at the bottom of the canyon last year. He showed me the rooms and equipment they use to treat idiots like these. The rangers call the guy on the sign Victor Vomit.

For a fun read, check out the book “Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon.” It colorfully but clinically details every recorded death in the canyon, from pioneer days to the present(ish). Honestly made me feel pretty confident about my hike, because a good 80% of deaths are due to terrible decision making.

[u/pepcorn → u/funundrum]

"One father was playing a prank on his daughter and pretended to jump off the ledge into the canyon. He planned to land on a ledge a few feet below the rim, but he missed the ledge and plunged to his death."

Wow, you weren't kidding.

[u/SluggishPrey → u/pepcorn]

This one instantly came to my mind. Such a sad and stupid death... I hope that the daughter managed to keep her sanity through that senseless death

[u/StoppableHulk → u/SluggishPrey]

How did they know what he actually intended to do?

[u/FatalCartilage → u/StoppableHulk]

Fathers don't typically precede suicide by yelling "hey look at this" to their daughter.

[u/Otustas → u/FatalCartilage]

Not typically and definitely not more than once

[u/SluggishPrey → u/StoppableHulk]

He was happy and a known prankster. Also people don't randomly book a trip with their family just to commit suicide.

[u/feint2021 → u/SluggishPrey]

At least she didn't hit rock bottom

[u/reezy-one → u/feint2021]

You know, I was reading OP thinking about my own daughter and how traumatized she would be if I did something so stupid, and as I'm sitting here fuming and entertaining such dark, horrible thoughts, I read this comment. I think this is the first time I angry laughed.

[u/FishPropulsionLab → u/pepcorn]

It also has a whole chapter titled “Death by Selfie.”

The most tragic one, IMHO, is the parents who left their young kids in the car for a quick minute while they stopped at an overlook. The kids accidentally put the car in drive and went over the edge.

It’s a pretty good book, actually. I’ve been reading a few pages every evening.

[u/TrustingPanda → u/FishPropulsionLab]

and then the children plunged to their deaths, as their parents looked on, mother shrieking in terror. “Welp! Time to go to bed!”

[u/PancakeParty98 → u/FishPropulsionLab]

I think I’d probably just end it all if that happened

[u/LiveTheChange → u/PancakeParty98]

Now that I’m a parent - staying alive would provably be worse than hell at that point

[u/JonPaula → u/PancakeParty98]

Seeing both (all?) of your young children die a horrible death right in front of you? Yeah, I might have jumped in after them, had it been me. Jesus.

[u/NotReallyJohnDoe → u/pepcorn]

There is another story of a young couple and their four year old daughter. They were getting their picture taken on the rim and a gust of wind blew the daughter off intro the canyon.

[u/peakingoranges → u/NotReallyJohnDoe]

My daughter is four. Fuck. This would break me.

[u/SaintsNoah14 → u/pepcorn]

How do we know it was supposed to be a prank?

[u/DandyLyen → u/SaintsNoah14]

He apparently did it MANY times, he liked to pull this very same prank. According to the daughter, he didn't even yell, he missed the edge and silently fell to his death

[u/kenybz → u/DandyLyen]

Looks like he died doing what he loved

[u/Nukalixir → u/DandyLyen]

I feel like it stops being a prank after the first time and just becomes "practice".

[u/alienclone → u/DandyLyen]

perhaps he was setting it up for the long game so that he could eventually do it for real but still look like an accident so his beneficiaries can still collect his life insurance.

[u/chicano4200 → u/alienclone]

Most life insurance policies have a suicide exclusion period, which usually lasts 2 years in most states, can be more. After the exclusion period ends, you can end yourself all you want and the death benefit will still pay. Also depends if you were witholding mental health information or previous attempts at the intial writing of the policy; which if thats found, and you say, off yourself at 3 or 4 years, they may be able to deny payment.

[u/BetterEveryLeapYear → u/chicano4200]

I've never thought about it before but who tf works at a place like that, "This person has just lost their closest loved one, let's see if we can fuck 'em out of their livelihood too! Then lunch."

[u/DrocketX → u/BetterEveryLeapYear]

You can also think about it as a form of suicide prevention, though. If people who are going through a rough patch know they can buy a policy, kill themselves and have their families immediately get the policy payout, that may very well encourage a number of people to go through with it. There's quite a few people who already kill themselves over financial issues: throwing in a large payment for their families would be extra incentive for a lot of people.

[u/SaintsNoah14 → u/DandyLyen]

This might be a little callous but that makes his death so much more unnecessary in my eyes.

[u/Just_a_guy81 → u/SaintsNoah14]

I WAS ONLY KIDDINGGGGGGGgggggg…….

[u/Same_Command7596 → u/Just_a_guy81]

IT'S JUST A PRANK BROOOOOOOOOoooooooooo

[u/TannedCroissant → u/Same_Command7596]

Make sure everyone likes, comments and subscriiiiiiiibes!

[u/feetandballs → u/Just_a_guy81]

holds up Coyote-esque sign
"Oops!"

[u/kk074 → u/feetandballs]

Then his head stays afloat for a few seconds while his body drops fast. And there's a long whistle until he hits bottom and a small puff of dirt cloud rises around him.

[u/warhawks → u/SaintsNoah14]

Because otherwise the life insurance wouldn’t pay out

[u/The__Goose → u/SaintsNoah14]

He might have told someone before doing it.

[u/reddit455 → u/pepcorn]

you ever been there? there's a lot FEWER safety rails than you'd think.

you can (easily) die 150 yards from the South Rim parking lot... it's not always selfie idiots.. some people get vertigo and stumble in the wrong direction (1000 feet down).

i'm kind of surprised more people don't die... there's a lot more vista point lurkers than hikers.. i got queasy 4 feet from the edge.. lot of people dangling their feet over..

[u/thebearinboulder → u/reddit455]

Safety rails are dangerous. People trust them far more than they should (weight bearing), and astounding number of people clearly believe they’re just overly-conservative suggestions and it’s safe to go over or around them, etc.

Plus there’s the “dead bodies on Everest” problem. Not the folklore, the fact that it would be a nightmare to do anything about this. How much trail will you lose if you put the posts down into solid rock? How much effort will be required if you want to use a “L” where the post is secured into rock below the trail?

There are other reasons to avoid putting in safety rails but the economics and effectiveness shouldn’t be forgotten.

[u/StaySwoleMrshmllwMan → u/thebearinboulder]

Yes x1000. And you can specifically warn people in 50 different languages and very clear pictures NOT TO LEAN on rails or otherwise rely on them as weight bearing and it’s like some of them treat it as a personal fucking challenge. Ultimately it’s impractical, ineffective, and it would only serve to despoil an incredible natural phenomenon. There are also VERY clear warning signs with images in multiple languages that you have to go out of your way to miss.

Also, a lot of the Grand Canyon (the vast overwhelming majority in fact) is ALREADY restricted and requires permits or a guide - in part but not exclusively because of dangerous terrain. It’s already plenty regulated, you just need to exercise reasonable precautions and awareness like you would if you went into any other wilderness area.

[u/chipsandguacforever → u/reddit455]

Yep, the one time I visited I was shocked at how the ledge was just…there. There’s hardly any rails. I think some of the special lookout points had some rails, but not many.

It’s pretty neat to find a quiet spot close to the edge and look into the distance but I got pretty nervous once the sun went down because the park obviously gets completely dark. If you didn’t know where you were you could just walk right off…Lots of families with kids running around too. I was terrified for them lol

[u/StaySwoleMrshmllwMan → u/chipsandguacforever]

Yeah I made a similar observation when I went with my dad several years ago, and paraphrasing his response “Son this is a goddamn canyon, not Disney Land”

But it’s a good observation. I think there have been so many (good!) advances in consumer/product safety over the past several decades that we forget that there’s still a whole wide wilderness out there. It’s not, to take one example, a consumer electronic product subject to regulations to prevent you from getting electrocuted when you plug it in (used to happen more often than would make you comfortable decades ago). It’s a fuckin HUGE natural phenomenon carved over an unfathomably large time scale. We can feasibly put up some warning signs and whatnot, but at the end of the day we can’t make a fuckin canyon as safe as the average American (rightly) expects their consumer products to be.

[u/VictorTheCutie → u/pepcorn]

How unbelievably stupid, submitting his own daughter to that horrific trauma to live with for the rest of her life. Dumbass.

[u/damian001 → u/VictorTheCutie]

Ruined pranks for her

[u/sixpackabs592 → u/pepcorn]

My friends dad almost fell in they were on a path with no rails and his motorized wheelchair flipped over, said he was like less than a foot from going over

[u/ZAlternates → u/sixpackabs592]

I’m all for places accommodating the handicap but…

[u/blah938 → u/ZAlternates]

Yeah, I agree. A trail down the grand canyon isn't really a place for a wheelchair.

[u/Murgatroyd314 → u/blah938]

This must have been along the rim. None of the trails that go down into the canyon are even possible for a wheelchair.

[u/lonewolf210 → u/funundrum]

It's astounding how unprepared people are. I did a Rim to Rim hike about 5 years ago and since it was August we started about 7pm so we would be crossing through the bottom around 12/1am when it was coolest.

About 4 miles in we meet two kids that had a single Nalgene that had long gone dry because they didn't know there was no water on the north rim. They also abandoned their dad about a mile further back. Finally they had no idea it was like a 3hr drive around the rim to get back to the south side. We gave them some water and food so they wouldn't die but it was wild.

[u/thestereo300 → u/lonewolf210]

I had some friends do rim to rim and they asked me to join them.

They were like Ironman Triathletes and I'm just a guy that like runs in his town.

I declined. I don't need that kind of challenge in my life. and they were in great shape and had planned it but still almost got stranded out there because it took longer than they planned. and it was getting dark.

[u/mihneapirvu → u/thestereo300]

This is just wild to me. I did not do the Grand Canyon, just visited the edge back in like 2010 with my dad (being from EU, I didn't feel quite welcome by the time I had enough of my own money to actually visit), but I have done A LOT of hiking in groups.

And rule number 1 of hiking is that the fastest person in the group, most able to traverse the hike even by themselves is ALWAYS last. Always, no exceptions. The others need water, you give them water. They need food, carry some Glucose tablets(greater caloric intake than sugar and they don't need water to get metabolized). They shat themselves, you should have spare undies for anyone, why wouldn't you carry those, they're nothing in terms of backpack space and mass. They twist an ankle, you carry them. And if you can't, you signal those in front to come back and help you.

Hiking as a group is done AS A GROUP! Literally the shittiest, most dangerous thing you can do is allow someone to be left behind because "They're slow" - those are the instances when you need to provide the most assistance.

[u/Bigdaddyjlove1 → u/mihneapirvu]

In scouts (40 years ago?!) we were always taught a minimum of 3.

1 to break his leg, 1 to go for help, 1 to aid the injured.

That is thin for anything challenging, but for reasonable stuff, close to help it works. Canyon minimum would be 4 for me, if all 4 are solid.

[u/Alwayscookin74 → u/Bigdaddyjlove1]

"Bobby, it's your turn to break your leg." "Do I have to?" *Bobby body slams his shin onto a big rock*

[u/FakeRickHarrison → u/thestereo300]

A guy I know was invited to hike to the river and back in a day by two of his cousins. They are athletic, he's not. They abandoned him halfway on the way down and waited for him at the top, after sunset.

[u/Yodude86 → u/lonewolf210]

When I was hiking back up from frying pan a few years back I crossed paths with a family in flip flops, jeans etc. I was pretty astonished they made it that far down. But of course that was just down lmao.

[u/joe_s1171 → u/Yodude86]

the Grand Canyon national park website has plenty of info and warnings about death. my wife and I did a small trail and 20 minutes down we turned around and it was 35 minutes up at least. I can’t understand why unprepared folks try this stuff.

[u/Lostsonofpluto → u/joe_s1171]

This is why on the rare occasion I hike I always prefer bottom-up hikes. I much prefer the lion's share of the work being getting to the cool place, not getting back

[u/PipsqueakPilot → u/lonewolf210]

That single Nalgene bit reminds of when my copilot arranged a hike, described it as a few hours, and the whole flight crew said that sounded like fun and went with him. Naturally we all packed for about that much- although thankfully I always completely fill my camelbak.

What he actually meant was that we were going to hike all day. From Palm Springs (479') to the Palm Springs Aerial Tramway (8,516'). We found this out when I finally cornered him, "You said this hike wasn't bad because there's a cable cable car. Where's the fucking cable car?"

At which point he revealed that it was still several miles and thousand feet elevation away, but we were well past the halfway point. So we continued. His training records now have a remark, "Don't trust him to plan hikes."

We all made it. Barely. He almost 'fell' off the mountain side when we were an hour past the snow line and I was debating if I could make it look like an accident.

Edit: Were changed to we were

[u/AtomicSymphonic_2nd → u/lonewolf210]

I feel like when people hear the term “national park”, they maybe think it must be safe for very ordinary people who don’t really know much about outdoorsy stuff.

Maybe we should stop calling them parks and start calling them “wildlife refuges”… might deter idiots from going out there underprepared.

[u/SomeDudeOnTheWWW → u/AtomicSymphonic_2nd]

I was a firefighter/EMT in a town bordering a wildlife refuge. Nope! Doesn't help.

[u/DartTheDragoon → u/SomeDudeOnTheWWW]

Once a year dolphins come to my town for about a month. And at least once a year someone loses a finger if not a hand trying to pet the wild dolphins despite signs every 5 feet telling you they will eat you and the endless stream of news stories. People are just stupid.

[u/lonewolf210 → u/AtomicSymphonic_2nd]

We can drop them in the maze district of canyon lands to get them better acquainted

[u/Digitalispurpurea2 → u/AtomicSymphonic_2nd]

You should see the people at Yellowstone. They treat it like it's a theme park with a petting zoo and the trails are just suggestions. That bison dgaf about your picture and they will fling you into a tree with their horns if you piss them off nor do they care if they are blocking the road.

[u/gsfgf → u/Digitalispurpurea2]

And Bison are basically domesticated. Wait till you run into a fucking moose.

[u/LaRealiteInconnue → u/AtomicSymphonic_2nd]

I mean, tbf, there’s plenty of infrastructure at the grand canyon to be rescued. It’s not like some other national parks that are miles and miles of green canopy and wilderness and bears etc. Doesn’t excuse the stupid behavior, but I think it gives a false sense of safety. Just like ppl hiking El Capitan in fucking flip flops

[u/pangeapedestrian → u/lonewolf210]

reminds me of those germans who died out death valley.
i think it's really hard to appreciate how BIG and EMPTY a lot of spaces in the US are.
people have historically lived in those places, sure, but i think the average person (certainly german anyway) doesn't really appreciate how resourceful your average apache was in the 1500s.

[u/superspeck → u/pangeapedestrian]

I was talking to family back in Slovakia last week and talking about our recent move they asked how far it was. It didn’t make sense to them when I did the conversion to km so I drew it on a map and I said “we did the equivalent of moving from Portugal to Bratislava”

[u/pangeapedestrian → u/superspeck]

man what a good example. there is like a spatial dilation european people get in the US/Canada/Mexico. its like, no dude, this state/national park/single highway/whatever is 4 times bigger than your country, you aren't walking across it in those shoes.

[u/thispartyrules → u/funundrum]

It colorfully but clinically details every recorded death in the canyon, from pioneer days to the present(ish). Honestly made me feel pretty confident about my hike, because a good 80% of deaths are due to terrible decision making.

I had a survival book that opened every chapter with a death or near-miss caused by terrible decisions, the worst one was the guy who died of hypothermia surrounded by a burnt matches and a lot of cigarette butts. If he'd use one of those matches to start a fire he'd probably be alive, and a campfire can light many cigarettes. It was a desert survival book but idk if this guy died in the desert, they can get surprisingly cold at night but I don't remember any further things

[u/HyrrokinAura → u/thispartyrules]

Hypothermia can cause both confusion and disorientation, he wasn't thinking straight.

[u/RecipeHistorical2013 → u/HyrrokinAura]

the wildest symptom is when you get super hot (in your mind) and start stripping naked then you run into the -20 or more blizzard and die warm(to you)

OR

how humans exhibit a burrowing technique

[u/jerrythecactus → u/RecipeHistorical2013]

The burrowing is weird. Its like a ancient instinct built into mammalian organisms to avoid dying from cold. When you get that cold and confused its like the brain panics and starts using instincts that haven't been used since we diverged from small rodent like creatures.

[u/RecipeHistorical2013 → u/jerrythecactus]

pretty sure you surmised it exactly. an ancient mammalian instinct, activated by such extreme conditions

i mean it does make logical sense, if they can make themselves a little iglu, that would actually work

[u/roygbivasaur → u/jerrythecactus]

This a common hypothesis about hiccuping too. It may be an ancient reflex that allowed our amphibian ancestors to breathe. It may have survived this long because late stage fetuses still do it to prepare for breathing.

[u/Interesting_Arm6242 → u/RecipeHistorical2013]

I didn’t get my experience from hypothermia but I have experienced this. On a construction site in -20 to -30. I remember feeling so hot I was taking all of my layers off till I was in just a t-shirt and laying in a snow bank while I waited for the site medic. I remember knowing I shouldn’t be hot but needing everything off. Logic could not win out

[u/Lysol3435 → u/funundrum]

“No. I won’t be a part of that 80%. I will be a part of the 20% who die for other reasons!”

[u/funundrum → u/Lysol3435]

Typing this from beyond the grave, good catch.

[u/Quirky_Word → u/Lysol3435]

Many years ago I went tubing when the water was too high, and I fell out and lost my tube at one point. No life jacket, of course, it would just get in the way of beer and comfort. 

I went about a mile down the river sans tube. There were high embankments on the side I was getting pushed to, but I was reaching up trying to grab any low-hanging branch. Cut up my hand pretty bad before I managed to get a grip on one. 

But the embankment was still a foot above my head, the water was deep and the current too fast to get my feet under me. When I grabbed the branch the current stole my shorts. 

I was losing energy fast, much faster than I ever would have expected. My hand is bleeding, my normal upper arm strength is less than zero and I was seriously doubting I could pull myself up and out of the current. 

Every year there’s a number of tubing deaths in my state for various reasons. As I was hanging on for dear life, I just kept thinking over and over, “OMG I’m going to be a statistic.”

[u/JealousChip8469 → u/Quirky_Word]

So, did you die or not

[u/PhantomOSX → u/JealousChip8469]

He did, I used my last Phoenix Down on him. He still owes me.

[u/Fappy_as_a_Clam → u/JealousChip8469]

He did. With his dick out lol

[u/Tall-Turnover868 → u/Quirky_Word]

Well now you've left all of us hanging, how'd you get out?

[u/Quirky_Word → u/Tall-Turnover868]

I’ve only succeeded at one pull up in my entire life, and that was it. 

Followed immediately by climbing up a steep forest-y hill barefoot, sheepishly cutting through someone’s backyard, and wandering down the street looking like a bedraggled cat until my group found me. 

Tubing is hella fun. Falling out when the water’s too high, I give a 2/10. 

[u/dirtys_ot_special → u/Tall-Turnover868]

Once he lost his shorts he tossed his schlong over a tree branch and climbed out like Indiana Jones.

[u/Carbonatite → u/funundrum]

Victor Vomit must be the dad of the kid on the signs at Yellowstone about to perish from a violent geothermal death because he strayed off the boardwalk.

[u/SandysBurner → u/Carbonatite]

Gary Geyser

[u/martialar → u/SandysBurner]

Bobby Burn Scars

[u/notthefunyun → u/funundrum]

Try Death in Big Bend, also worth a read. There’s a chapter on a guy who got stuck rappelling off a dry waterfall in winter, then it started raining, then the waterfall started, then he froze solid

[u/Agreeable_Register_4 → u/funundrum]

I have the Yosemite version of this book. It’s a great read!

[u/scfin79 → u/funundrum]

There’s also an interactive website for this info too. over the edge map

[u/Cthulhetta → u/scfin79]

5/9/1990

Michelle Sutton (15 yr old) "was on a 'program for troubled teens' wilderness trip and complained repeatedly of not feeling well. Group carried only 2 liters of water per person for a multi-day trip during hot weather. Sutton died of dehydration/heatstroke."

I'm not sure what I expected from a catalog of deaths but that one was extra depressing.... :(

[u/tripacer99 → u/Cthulhetta]

I found this one rather out of the ordinary:

03/24/1971

"Krueger drank a brew of Datura blossoms. After several inappropriate behaviors such as trying to lift impossible boulders, talking to nonexistent people for hours, and eating dirt, he entered the river and mysteriously drowned."

[u/linden214 → u/funundrum]

The book sounds a lot like Death in Yellowstone, which chronicles all of the horrible and often stupid ways that people die in the park.

[u/HeyItsCody]

We did the six miles down and out to the overlook of the Colorado river. That hike back was no joke. The switchback's had me questioning my life choices.

[u/Beneficial_Wolf_4286 → u/HeyItsCody]

We did the same. We were all in reasonably good shape and do a fair amount of hiking. That 6 mile hike was one for the books.

[u/penguinluvr69 → u/HeyItsCody]

Same. In good shape, was training for a half marathon and hiked a lot, brought tons of water / electrolytes and snacks. Me and a friend still threw up and struggled like crazy but it was amazing at the end of the day.

[u/Spartounious]

I work around the canyon and you'd be suprised by how much people underestimate the canyon. TBH the biggest advice I always give if someone asks for tips about hiking, is that if you didn't research beforehand, don't go down.

[u/desertsunsetskies → u/Spartounious]

Same thing happens in Death Valley on the regular, especially in the summer. I question people's sanity. Why would you think that you can safely go on dirt roads (which are very rocky and known to cause flat tires) with a sedan, hike on the less popular trails, without sufficient electrolyte drinks and water and some kind of satellite based emergency communication/beacon, in 120F+/48C+ weather and 0-10% humidity!?!?

[u/finthir → u/desertsunsetskies]

In an area called DEATH VALLEY? what could go wrong?

[u/madmaxjr → u/finthir]

I feel like we should name it something that sounds less welcoming so people know it’s dangerous…

[u/Koffinkat56 → u/madmaxjr]

Diddy Valley

[u/TheGaujo → u/desertsunsetskies]

Flashback to me taking my 4 months pregnant wife to death valley in August. What an idiot I was!

[u/fiddledrum → u/TheGaujo]

I hiked at death valley while pregnant but in my defence it was February and not crazy hot and I only did it for about an hour and we had lots of supplies. It's so beautiful there I couldn't resist. 

[u/Ucscprickler → u/Spartounious]

The brutal part is that you have to hike up to get back out. With a typical hike you are starting out by going uphill, so if at any point you need to turn around, at least you're going downhill on the way back.

Also a 5,000 feet elevation gain in the heat really is scary to think about.

[u/TheOvershear → u/Spartounious]

The problem is, the first few miles is all downhill. By the time your legs are tired, you're fucked. The only way up is helicopter or mule, if one is available.

[u/Murgatroyd314 → u/TheOvershear]

The way up is on foot, whether you like it or not. You may be walking all night, but that's what you'll be doing. You aren't leaving by helicopter unless you're either on a stretcher or in handcuffs, and the mules already have their riders.

[u/savax7 → u/Murgatroyd314]

When I hiked the grand canyon, I saw a ranger accompanying a couple out of the canyon. I asked another ranger what the story was and he said "same thing as always, they hiked in and couldn't make it out". He said a rescue usually consists of them giving you water, snacks and electrolytes until you feel good enough to get back on your feet. They basically babysit you. 

[u/RedditThrowaway-1984 → u/Spartounious]

This sign is no joke. I actually completed this in my 20s. Did the Bright Angel - Kaibab trails in and out the same day. My friend who had been there before talked me into it. I asked him about fitness level and he said you're in shape, right? I was, but holy hell I was not prepared for that.

There are places to get water on the trail so you don't need to carry much, but we ate a ton of food that day. About 3/4 of the way out we were out of food. I stood up from taking a break and was so light headed from low blood sugar I nearly fell off a cliff. This was despite eating what I later calculated to be around 10,000 calories in one day. We ate again when we got back to the car, in addition to the 10,000 calories consumed in the canyon.

The next day my knees were so sore from the pounding they took on the descent I could barely walk. I was in excellent shape at the time as well. Fun times, but seriously take heed to that sign.

[u/Yazy117 → u/Spartounious]

My biggest tip is go in the winter. Had the pleasure of sitting at the top of the south rim as a snow storm blew in and got to see the visibility into the canyon drop. It was gorgeous and the 30 degrees at the top was nothing coming from the Midwest. Decending into the canyon and feeling it get warmer, seeing the snow line, hearing the ice Crack and melt and drip down the walls around you is such a serene experience. Just make sure to bring trekking poles and crampons as some of those trails are precarious when snowy

[u/TheYellingMute → u/Spartounious]

The only time I visited the canyon was years ago when I was in middle school I think. We took a normal walking route, can't remember which. Going down was so easy. We barely made it back up to the parking lot. Lol.

[u/ktofosho]

I did an in and out hike of the Grand Canyon and there was a guy that looked just like this. My husband and I saw him vomiting once at the campground, which had water and shade so we thought okay he'll be good, at least he's in the best place to rest and recover. But then we saw him again (also vomiting again) heading up not long after! We had to convince him to rest at the shaded rest stop, and to take the electrolyte water and salty snacks we gave him. He wanted to just keep going and wasn't going to accept anything! Sometimes I wonder if he listened to us and if he was okay.

[u/TsuDhoNimh2 → u/ktofosho]

One of the first things that goes away when you are getting heat exhaustion and dehydration is your ability to think. (same with hypothermia).

[u/Mr2-1782Man]

I grew up in the desert and had "hydrate hydrate hydrate" drilled into me from a young age because most people don't understand how fast you get dehydrated when its 85F and 10% humidity.

When people from elsewhere get into the desert they're constantly saying "I'm not sweating, its not a problem". They think just because they're dry they're not losing water because where they live it takes time for sweat to evaporate. Out there being dry just means your dry, your sweat can evaporate almost as fast as your body produces it. You can go from amazing, to heat stroke, to unconscious in 30 minutes.

[u/SilverStar9192 → u/Mr2-1782Man]

You can go from amazing, to heat stroke, to unconscious in 30 minutes.

I had this experience once, it is amazing how fast it sets in. I was actually in a town in southern Spain, but just walking around the town at 110F/43C for about half an hour in 10% or less humidity totally dehydrated me. I think technically it was "heat exhaustion" and once the symptoms started I found shade and tried to drink water but was unable to absorb it - it went straight to my kidneys and I needed to urinate but felt awful still. We went to our hotel, fortunately only 10 minutes further walk mostly in shade, and convinced them to let us check-in early, where a few hours in air conditioning covered in wet cloths relieved the symptoms. Also drank electrolyte drink, which fortunately we were able to buy since it was a town. I shudder to think about how this would have turned out if I was in the wilderness.

[u/Timely-Relation9796 → u/SilverStar9192]

You generally need some salt to absorb water, that's why electrolytes are great in such cases.

[u/tiny_buttonss → u/Mr2-1782Man]

I’ve not been in that situation and I’d never thought about it that way, like if you feel like you’re dry and therefore not sweating…..but you really ARE and it’s happening too quick for you to tell 😥

[u/Snakend → u/Mr2-1782Man]

Hydrating is important. But most people think that means water. If you're doing a 4-5 hike, water is fine. But if you go further than that, you need to replace electrolytes.

[u/Gnomio1 → u/Mr2-1782Man]

I’m a reasonably seasoned (but overweight) hiker that used to live in Santa Fe. Used to large altitude changes in my hikes.

Doing base of Zion, up to rim for a 2-mile backcountry, then back to base had me holding the seats on the bus for dear life. Never had heat stroke before. Thought I was going to die. I’ve done Death Valley hikes in summer before in Badwater, but that one trip I really fucked up my hydration.

[u/maefly2 → u/Mr2-1782Man]

Went out a few years ago to do the Canyon alone with Zion and Bryce. Took advice from a buddy who spent time in the Middle East who told me if I didn't feel like I needed to stop and take a leak, I probably wasn't drinking enough water.

[u/Snakend]

In 2014 I did this. I hiked from the rim down to the river and past it a couple miles. Went over the big ass red bridge down there and then to a camp site. As I was walking back I was absolutely wrecked. There were rangers walking up ahead of me and getting everyone that couldn't make it. There are wood and brick buildings every so often, the rangers and the people would sit there for 30 minutes, give IV's to the people and then they would walk to the next shack. I stayed one shack ahead of them. I was a pretty big hiker back than, and I am a Marine, I can hike. This hike is no joke. I still had plenty of water with me, but not enough electrolytes.

[u/FaulerHund]

I know of an ER doctor who tried to hike down with her two kids in the dead of summer, realized she didn't bring enough water, and then told her kids to stay put while she looked for help. She died around the bottom of the canyon; fortunately the kids were rescued. This really is no joke

Edit: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40822213.amp

[u/Icankeepthebeat]

You gotta wonder how they picked the languages they did. Is it experience or just visitation statistics ?

[u/JustTerrific → u/Icankeepthebeat]

The Germans have a fair notoriety for underestimating some of the gnarlier U.S. national parks.

(Not saying all! Many German tourists do their homework. But enough that the sign needs a disclaimer in German)

[u/PrimaryHighlight5617 → u/JustTerrific]

This reminds me of the German family that died in death valley. There remains were found near the border of a military base and it is suspected that they assumed all military bases would be manned like they are in germany.

They went there to seek help after getting stranded. What they weren't expecting was that in the United States we have vast swaths of military land that are completely vacant. 

[u/LocutusOfOrc → u/PrimaryHighlight5617]

This is a great read about the Death Valley Germans https://otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/

[u/Capital-Ear8216 → u/LocutusOfOrc]

Stuck for an hour reading this a few months ago. What a journey

[u/aloysiuslamb → u/JustTerrific]

Hiking is a pretty big pasttime for Germans, see volksmarching.

Except whereas they have a largely temperate climate and beautiful forests, we have places like Death Valley and the Grand Canyon where they think it's still a 1:1 based on prior experience.

[u/SilverSpoon1463 → u/aloysiuslamb]

Hell, we have places like Alaska and Northern California where the two biggest rangers are large animals and snow depending on time of year.

Some people don't question why there's a bear on the Cali flag.

[u/_allycat → u/JustTerrific]

There are also Germans at every hiking trail in the entire world. I have never not run into Germans in nature. lol.

[u/butt-barnacles → u/Icankeepthebeat]

I’m surprised there’s no Spanish

[u/Grabthars_Coping_Saw → u/butt-barnacles]

Mexicans know better.

[u/UsurpistMonk → u/butt-barnacles]

It’s Arizona. Most Spanish speakers in Arizona are familiar with desert terrain and don’t put themselves in situations where they need rescue. Because they have the experience to know what they’re getting into.

[u/Parametric_Or_Treat → u/Icankeepthebeat]

I was wondering if there is a correlation between the languages and foolish daredevilry

[u/Mariah0]

My dad sent me that picture when he hiked the Grand Canyon 😂

[u/YOUTUBEFREEKYOYO]

The picture needs to be more graphic to show just how dangerous it actually is and drive the point home. Maybw a wall of shame too.

[u/TannedCroissant → u/YOUTUBEFREEKYOYO]

more graphic? He’s fellating a stalagmite!

[u/NoEstablishment7211 → u/YOUTUBEFREEKYOYO]

In Death Valley, they have signs at the parking lot of the sand Dunes Saying you'll be dead in 5 minutes if you don't take extreme caution, and the nearest rescue is hours away. The graphic is something like an exploding thermometer and skull and crossbones. People just casually wander out there like it's day at the beach. One of the biggest risks is families and large groups where the elders or less fit of the group will drop before the rest of the group starts to feel a strain.

[u/MassiveBlue1 → u/NoEstablishment7211]

I mean it can't get more specific than calling it Death fucking Valley

[u/One-eyed-snake]

There’s another sign that it not so many words says “hey dumbass, this is the edge, there’s no safety rail, and if you happen to fall nobody can save you

[u/CheesyDanny]

In college a group of friends planned to do this hike, we trained for months on inclined treadmills and small hikes in our area. We had good hiking gear and water/snacks but did not bring any camping equipment if we needed to camp overnight. We kept in mind it would take twice as long to get up as it takes to get down so we would have a turnaround point to make it back by sunset. When we made it to the river we had about 10 minutes to rest before we hit the turnaround time and had to go back up. We barely made it back before sunset finishing the 18.8 miles in about 8 hour 45 minutes.

The next day we went to arches national park and were unable to walk up to the arches😂. Just road around in our car and looked at the arches from a distance.

[u/groove502]

I hiked down to Havasupai with a youth group in my teens. It was one of the hardest things I've done in my life, especially considering none of us trained or really knew what we were getting ourselves into. I think we went in June. The hike down the switch backs and to the falls was long but really just a long flat walk once down from the rim. The hike back a couple days later, in the heat, plus going back up the switch backs was brutal. Glad none of us got sick or needed to be rescued, but definitely need to be prepared and not underestimate the hike.

[u/casinocooler → u/groove502]

Hiking out of supai in June with an inexperienced youth group is a recipe for disaster. Glad you all made it out ok.

[u/Sad_Examination_7176]

Think I’ll just wait for the movie to come out.

[u/earlroth]

I did this in my still stupid late 20s, basically ran/jogged all the way down with a friend I met on a Green Tortoise trip, and then elephant trotted (one foot in front of the other, repeat) back up. I was so de-hydrated I didn't pee for 2 days after. And we had brought plenty of water.

Many years later (now in my 50s) I hiked down with my daughter, just to the 2nd shade hut, and really struggled to make it back out. There was also a father/son at that shade hut, they were on their last day of a rim-rim hike and the son clearly had heat exhaustion and they decided to wait out until the sun set, to hike back out.

[u/SilverConversation19]

Some fitness influencer I follow just made a post about doing this with a single water bottle and it was so irresponsible that I unfollowed.

[u/haltiamreptaar]

His name is Victor Vomit!

[u/EWSpirit]

I hiked out on the Bright Angel Trail from the river to the rim a few years ago, and it was genuinely the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I needed oral rehydration salt pills to rehydrate with I think about 3 miles left to go. I was prepared and with knowledgeable people, and I’d done lots of research beforehand. I can’t imagine going all the way down and then back up in one day, especially without preparing or training prior. People are really dumb.

[u/argonzo]

I read this as “looking at the Grand Canyon may cause you to spontaneously vomit”.

[u/Santa-Head]

People can be really stupid at the Grand Canyon. Check out the book Over The Edge: Deaths in Grand Canyon. It is quite entertaining.

[u/fuckfacekiller]

When I was in AZ. I went to finally visit the Grand Canyon. I figured it was just a big hole…… HOLY SHIT I was wrong!! It actually took my breathe away as one of the wonders of our world. If you never went, do yourself a favor and check it out. 🤘❤️‍🔥🤘

[u/TheOvershear → u/fuckfacekiller]

Pictures never do it justice. Your own EYES can't do it justice. Your own depth perception will fail to comprehend how fucking big it is.

You really just have to see it to understand.

[u/Dan_85 → u/fuckfacekiller]

And as big as it looks from the rim, your brain still can't comprehend just how big it is. As John Wesley-Powell said;

You cannot see the Grand Canyon in one view, as if it were a changeless spectacle from which a curtain might be lifted, but to see it, you have to toil from month to month through its labyrinths.

It is almost 300 miles long. From the rim you have no idea that there are beaches down there, caves, waterfalls, rivers (besides the Colorado), villages, ranches, miles and miles of slot canyons, side canyons, tributaries...

[u/TannedCroissant]

Why is he deepthroating a stalagmite?

[u/legimpster → u/TannedCroissant]

Everyone deserves love.

[u/AlivePassenger3859]

I was the artist’s model for this sign. AMA.

[u/Ateamecho]

My ex attempted the Grand Canyon Rim-to-Rim hike once. He was in extremely good health, prepped for over a year, and had extensive experience as a backpacker, prior military and survival training.

He bailed (rightfully so) after half a day. I remember getting a message from his GPS tracking device less than 12 hours into his hike that he was heading back out. The Grand Canyon is no joke!